Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-20-08, 10:09 AM	One of my players has taken the War Hulk PrC. I am looking at the version in the miniatures handbook. The "Great Swing" ability allows the character to hit three squares adjacent to one another as a full-round action. Fine - it replaces the fact that war hulks don't get extra attacks from BAB, as their BAB does not increase. "Mighty Swing" is same as great swing, but it's a standard action. The text says A mighty swing is like a great swing, except that it is a standard acion rather than a full round a ction. Thus, th character can move and take a mighty swing, or make multiple mighty swings in a round How does that work? If a mighty swing is a standard action, you can't do it multiple times in a round. It would be the same as any other "special" melee attack - multiple attacks from BAB are when you take a full-round attack, which is a special attack in it's own right. Is there errata for this? I couldn't find it on the errata page.
Merestil Haye 01-20-08, 11:54 AM	How does that work? If a mighty swing is a standard action, you can't do it multiple times in a round. It would be the same as any other "special" melee attack - multiple attacks from BAB are when you take a full-round attack, which is a special attack in it's own right. Is there errata for this? I couldn't find it on the errata page.Multiple attacks from BAB aren't a special attack. Multiple independent attacks, whether from high BAB or some other source, requires a full-round action. The Attack action bears the same relationship to the Full Attack action as taking a standard action to make one Mighty Swing bears to taking a full-attack action to make multiple Mighty Swings.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-21-08, 02:53 AM	Multiple attacks from BAB aren't a special attack. Thanks. Does this mean that the other special attacks which are not full-round actions (bull rush, disarm, feint, sunder, trip) may also be done multiple times in a round? What about grapple? Can you make multiple grapple attempts in a round if you have a high BAB? The book says that you can escape a pin by "making an opposed grapple check in place of an attack". Do you get multiple attempts on your turn if you have multiple attacks from BAB? I suppose so - the book goes on to say that using Escape Artist to escape a pin is a standard action. So does this mean - as it seems to - that you can escape a pin (as an action in place of an attack), escape from grapple (ditto) and then make other attacks all in one round if you have the BAB to do it. What about if you have multiple attacks on account of having two weapons or multiattack? How abut throwing a splash weapon? If you have them to hand, can you throw multiple vials of alchemists fire in a round?
Merestil Haye 01-21-08, 06:52 AM	Thanks. Does this mean that the other special attacks which are not full-round actions (bull rush, disarm, feint, sunder, trip) may also be done multiple times in a round?Some can, some can't. If the special attack replaces an attack, then it can be done multiple times with multiple attacks, or even replacing AoOs. Of the actions you asked about, Disarm, Sunder and Trip can all replace attacks; Feint and Bull Rush cannot, as they require their own action. What about grapple? Can you make multiple grapple attempts in a round if you have a high BAB? The book says that you can escape a pin by "making an opposed grapple check in place of an attack". Do you get multiple attempts on your turn if you have multiple attacks from BAB? I suppose so - the book goes on to say that using Escape Artist to escape a pin is a standard action. You can replace an attack with a grapple check, so multiple grapples in a round are possible. So does this mean - as it seems to - that you can escape a pin (as an action in place of an attack), escape from grapple (ditto) and then make other attacks all in one round if you have the BAB to do it.And other resources - such as a weapon to attack with. If you've spent two attacks getting out of a grapple, you don't have a move action to draw a weapon this round. (Quick Draw would help.) What about if you have multiple attacks on account of having two weapons or multiattack?You can use only one weapon per round in a grapple; so you don't have multiple attacks in those cases. How abut throwing a splash weapon? If you have them to hand, can you throw multiple vials of alchemists fire in a round?There's no mechanical difference between the act of throwing multiple flasks and the act of throwing multiple daggers. If you have the Quick Draw feat, then this is quite possible. If you don't then you're limited to one projectile per round because drawing the next is a move action.
weasel0 01-21-08, 11:59 PM	I concur.
Wih 01-22-08, 12:27 AM	The whole multiple Mighty Swings in a round was probably referring to 3.0 Haste, whihc would give you an extra Standard action. If you do come across an ability or item (ie Belt of Battle) that gives you an extra Standard action, you can use it to make a second Mighty Swing.
Merestil Haye 01-22-08, 06:08 AM	The whole multiple Mighty Swings in a round was probably referring to 3.0 Haste, whihc would give you an extra Standard action. If you do come across an ability or item (ie Belt of Battle) that gives you an extra Standard action, you can use it to make a second Mighty Swing.That's highly unlikely. The War Hulk is found in the Miniatures Handbook, which was released in early 2004, more than six months after the debut of 3.5.
runestar 01-23-08, 06:17 AM	The later versions of mighty swing allow you to use it as an attack action, which would allow you to use it multiple times if your bab is high enough. Maybe it was just sloppy editing.:)
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-24-08, 06:58 AM	The later versions of mighty swing allow you to use it as an attack action, which would allow you to use it multiple times if your bab is high enough. And a War-hulk's BAB does not increase as they level. So it's not too unbalanced, especially since a mighty swing only works on three connected squares.
Wih 01-24-08, 07:56 PM	And a War-hulk's BAB does not increase as they level. So it's not too unbalanced, especially since a mighty swing only works on three connected squares. It's not unbalanced as long as the Warhulk doesn't have a way of getting BAB on his Warhulk levels, such as Divine Power, Tenser's Transformation, a Skillful weapon or Gestalt. Then it gets ludicrous.
runestar 01-25-08, 04:16 AM	It's not unbalanced as long as the Warhulk doesn't have a way of getting BAB on his Warhulk levels, such as Divine Power, Tenser's Transformation, a Skillful weapon or Gestalt. Then it gets ludicrous. Or if the warhulk has multiple natural attacks. For example, it can polymorph into a 12-headed hydra. This nets it 12 attacks each round as a standard action, each of which is the equivalent of a 10-ft whirlwind...:cool: And depending on how you interpret the str increases, it could be seen as a class feature which stacks on top of anything.:P