Wish Pricing for PC Item Creation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wish Pricing for PC Item Creation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cobra1117
08-01-07, 02:49 PM All,

I run a fairly high-magic campaign and my PCs are currently around 17th level. Several of them have expressed a desire to upgrade their weapons and/or armor, but the amount of time required is prohibitive at their level. I want to encourage them to upgrade their items (rather than sitting around hoping that a better one will come along in random treasure), so I started looking into the wish spell. The rules for wish state that you can use it to, "Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item." The problem is that the pricing for an upgrade can actually be less if you use the rules for paying someone to cast wish. Now, I already understand that it would take a lot of searching to find someone willing to expend the XP for wish, but that aside, here's the pricing explanation:

Upgrading a weapon from an effective +5 to an effective +8. Normal cost:
128,000 - 50,000 = 78,000 gp

Now the cost for wish:

From "Goods and Services": Price for a 9th level spell: Caster level × 90 gp
=> 17*90 = 1,530 gp

From the wish description: "When a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP."
=> 5,000 + 2 * 78,000 / 25 = 11,240 XP

From "Goods and Services": "If the spell has an XP cost, add 5 gp per XP lost."
=> 11,240 * 5 = 56,200 gp

Which gives us a total of 57,730 gp, which is a significant savings over the 78,000 gp for the normal improvements (which would take 78 days, rather than a standard action!).

My questions are:
1.) Am I calculating something wrong?
2.) If I did calculate it correctly, does anyone have any suggestions on how to adjudicate this? I was considering house ruling that the cost would be the cost to cast the spell (56,200 gp in this case), plus the normal cost for the improvement (78,000 in this case) as a material component. Suggestions are definitely welcome
3.) Aside from wish, does anyone have any suggestions on other ways to allow the characters to do rapid upgrades?

Thanks!
Karui_Kage
08-01-07, 02:52 PM First off, change all those <> to []'s. ;)

Second, your estimation looks fine, just off the top of my head. The immense XP hit means it wouldn't be an often used tactic, and it does save a decent chunk of change.
mvincent
08-01-07, 07:11 PM 1.) Am I calculating something wrong?No, that seems about right.

2.) anyone have any suggestions on how to adjudicate this?Campaign-wise, this can be good thing. It's only really good at high levels, where the PC's would otherwise have to sit around for months to get suitable gear crafted. If you want to limit it, it is very reasonable to rule that extremely high wizards are not so free with their XP. After 17th level or so, the value of one's XP start rising dramatically for PC's, so it can be the same for NPC's.

3.) Aside from wish, does anyone have any suggestions on other ways to allow the characters to do rapid upgrades?In my campaign, we have demi-plane with an altered time rate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#flowingTime) (created via the genesis spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm)), which is used primarily for creating magical items (without wasting months of campaign time). One cannot enter and exit the plane on the same day though (to avoid PC's using it during combat as a poor-man's timestop).
Cobra1117
08-02-07, 01:11 PM First off, change all those <> to []'s. ;)

Heh... Yeah... I realized that right after I posted... been too long since I've been on the Forum.
The Simbul
08-04-07, 01:23 AM Acquiring wish as a spellcasting service is almost impossible in a typical core D&D campaign unless the DM specifically alters circumstances to make it possible.

As per the rules for spellcasting services, any spell whose final price exceeds 3,000gp is "generally not available". In addition, the availability of a spell is determined by the highest level NPC spellcaster of a given class in the community. As per the DMG demographics, the highest level randomly generated sorcerer or wizard you can find in a metropolis (the highest community category in the DMG) is going to be 16th level or lower.

Thus unless you are playing in an Epic Level or Forgotten Realms campaign (and thus using the modified community demographics in such campaigns), or you are portal jumping off to Sigil or some other planar metropolis that has no NPC level cap, then the only NPCs you will likely find who are capable of casting wish are going to be;

A) Unique sorcerer or wizard NPCs specifically created or placed in the world by the DM, or who are specifically noted in a sourcebook/adventure.
B) Dragons who have achieved an effective sorcerer caster level of 18+
C) Genies, Angels, Demons, or Devils who possess a wish or grant wish spell-like ability.
D) An NPC who just so happens to have inherited, purchased, or acquired a ring of three wishes, luckblade, or scroll of wish (likely from a long-dead spellcasting ancestor, or purchased from adventurers who looted it from the tomb of an equally long-dead adventurer).
runestar
08-04-07, 01:40 AM This is what happens when the game designers can't do math.

Apparently, you are allowed to convert gp to xp at a 12.5-for-1 ratio using wish, then convert those xp back to gp again at a 1-for-5 ratio when you pay someone to cast the wish spell for you.

Let market price = (market price/12.5 + 5000)*5 + 1530, market price = 44217.

So, this method is actually more cost-efficient when generating any magic item with a market price of 44217 gp or greater, assuming you are able to find a suitable caster.

No wonder there is an opportunity for arbitrage...:rolleyes:
Merestil Haye
08-04-07, 06:31 AM I would have the wizard agree to provide a scroll of Wish, but not to upgrade the weapon directly.

"Sorry, I don't do that. Wish is hard enough without incurring an extra cost. I'll sell you a scroll and then you can cast the spell for yourself."

I also rule that when casting a spell with an effect that requires a variable xp payment that the character activating the device pays the variable amount of the cost. (Fixed amounts like the 5,000xp cost of a Wish are still paid by the scroll's scriber.) This avoids any problems having to tell a player that they cant use that Wish for what they want to do.

Thus the character would wind up paying the cost of a Wish scroll plus the xp for upgrading the item.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cobra1117 08-01-07, 02:49 PM	All, I run a fairly high-magic campaign and my PCs are currently around 17th level. Several of them have expressed a desire to upgrade their weapons and/or armor, but the amount of time required is prohibitive at their level. I want to encourage them to upgrade their items (rather than sitting around hoping that a better one will come along in random treasure), so I started looking into the wish spell. The rules for wish state that you can use it to, "Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item." The problem is that the pricing for an upgrade can actually be less if you use the rules for paying someone to cast wish. Now, I already understand that it would take a lot of searching to find someone willing to expend the XP for wish, but that aside, here's the pricing explanation: Upgrading a weapon from an effective +5 to an effective +8. Normal cost: 128,000 - 50,000 = 78,000 gp Now the cost for wish: From "Goods and Services": Price for a 9th level spell: Caster level × 90 gp => 1790 = 1,530 gp From the wish description: "When a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP." => 5,000 + 2 78,000 / 25 = 11,240 XP From "Goods and Services": "If the spell has an XP cost, add 5 gp per XP lost." => 11,240 * 5 = 56,200 gp Which gives us a total of 57,730 gp, which is a significant savings over the 78,000 gp for the normal improvements (which would take 78 days, rather than a standard action!). My questions are: 1.) Am I calculating something wrong? 2.) If I did calculate it correctly, does anyone have any suggestions on how to adjudicate this? I was considering house ruling that the cost would be the cost to cast the spell (56,200 gp in this case), plus the normal cost for the improvement (78,000 in this case) as a material component. Suggestions are definitely welcome 3.) Aside from wish, does anyone have any suggestions on other ways to allow the characters to do rapid upgrades? Thanks!
Karui_Kage 08-01-07, 02:52 PM	First off, change all those <> to []'s. ;) Second, your estimation looks fine, just off the top of my head. The immense XP hit means it wouldn't be an often used tactic, and it does save a decent chunk of change.
mvincent 08-01-07, 07:11 PM	1.) Am I calculating something wrong?No, that seems about right. 2.) anyone have any suggestions on how to adjudicate this?Campaign-wise, this can be good thing. It's only really good at high levels, where the PC's would otherwise have to sit around for months to get suitable gear crafted. If you want to limit it, it is very reasonable to rule that extremely high wizards are not so free with their XP. After 17th level or so, the value of one's XP start rising dramatically for PC's, so it can be the same for NPC's. 3.) Aside from wish, does anyone have any suggestions on other ways to allow the characters to do rapid upgrades?In my campaign, we have demi-plane with an altered time rate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#flowingTime) (created via the genesis spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm)), which is used primarily for creating magical items (without wasting months of campaign time). One cannot enter and exit the plane on the same day though (to avoid PC's using it during combat as a poor-man's timestop).
Cobra1117 08-02-07, 01:11 PM	First off, change all those <> to []'s. ;) Heh... Yeah... I realized that right after I posted... been too long since I've been on the Forum.
The Simbul 08-04-07, 01:23 AM	Acquiring wish as a spellcasting service is almost impossible in a typical core D&D campaign unless the DM specifically alters circumstances to make it possible. As per the rules for spellcasting services, any spell whose final price exceeds 3,000gp is "generally not available". In addition, the availability of a spell is determined by the highest level NPC spellcaster of a given class in the community. As per the DMG demographics, the highest level randomly generated sorcerer or wizard you can find in a metropolis (the highest community category in the DMG) is going to be 16th level or lower. Thus unless you are playing in an Epic Level or Forgotten Realms campaign (and thus using the modified community demographics in such campaigns), or you are portal jumping off to Sigil or some other planar metropolis that has no NPC level cap, then the only NPCs you will likely find who are capable of casting wish are going to be; A) Unique sorcerer or wizard NPCs specifically created or placed in the world by the DM, or who are specifically noted in a sourcebook/adventure. B) Dragons who have achieved an effective sorcerer caster level of 18+ C) Genies, Angels, Demons, or Devils who possess a wish or grant wish spell-like ability. D) An NPC who just so happens to have inherited, purchased, or acquired a ring of three wishes, luckblade, or scroll of wish (likely from a long-dead spellcasting ancestor, or purchased from adventurers who looted it from the tomb of an equally long-dead adventurer).
runestar 08-04-07, 01:40 AM	This is what happens when the game designers can't do math. Apparently, you are allowed to convert gp to xp at a 12.5-for-1 ratio using wish, then convert those xp back to gp again at a 1-for-5 ratio when you pay someone to cast the wish spell for you. Let market price = (market price/12.5 + 5000)*5 + 1530, market price = 44217. So, this method is actually more cost-efficient when generating any magic item with a market price of 44217 gp or greater, assuming you are able to find a suitable caster. No wonder there is an opportunity for arbitrage...:rolleyes:
Merestil Haye 08-04-07, 06:31 AM	I would have the wizard agree to provide a scroll of Wish, but not to upgrade the weapon directly. "Sorry, I don't do that. Wish is hard enough without incurring an extra cost. I'll sell you a scroll and then you can cast the spell for yourself." I also rule that when casting a spell with an effect that requires a variable xp payment that the character activating the device pays the variable amount of the cost. (Fixed amounts like the 5,000xp cost of a Wish are still paid by the scroll's scriber.) This avoids any problems having to tell a player that they cant use that Wish for what they want to do. Thus the character would wind up paying the cost of a Wish scroll plus the xp for upgrading the item.