Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DouglasN 09-09-07, 03:22 AM	Hello people, I'm sure this has been covered, but I've read the FAQ and searched the forum and haven't found anything. What if a PC, being granted a Wish, wishes for a luck blade? That should somehow be illegal! :rolleyes: Though it falls under the bulleted item "wishing for a magic item". Thanks for your responses, yours -Doug
heffroncm 09-09-07, 03:28 AM	You can normally only Wish for an item of value 25,000gp or less. If you Wish for something more expensive, unforseen side effects may occur. You may get your Luck Blade by being transported into the Portable Hole that contains it. Alternatively, you'll get a Luck Blade with 0 Wishes in it, as that's a 22k item, under the 25k limit.
DouglasN 09-09-07, 03:32 AM	Hmmm ... in the SRD it says: * Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value. * Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item. I don't read that 25,000 gp limit as to apply to a magic item too.
heffroncm 09-09-07, 03:53 AM	Hmmm ... in the SRD it says: I don't read that 25,000 gp limit as to apply to a magic item too. You know, you're right. There is a provision at the end. You can make any magic item you want, but it costs 2x the crafting XP, plus the 5,000 that Wish itself costs. So, for the low, low price of 16,436 XP, you can Wish for a Luck Blade with 3 Wishes in it, saving yourself an entire -1,436 XP! You'd have to be inches away from Level 19, as you can't spend enough XP to drop you a level, but you could do it! That is, it's cheaper just to cast 3 Wishes than to Wish for a Luck Blade. Check the XP cost portion of the spell.
DouglasN 09-09-07, 09:57 AM	You know, you're right. There is a provision at the end. You can make any magic item you want, but it costs 2x the crafting XP, plus the 5,000 that Wish itself costs. So, for the low, low price of 16,436 XP, you can Wish for a Luck Blade with 3 Wishes in it, saving yourself an entire -1,436 XP! You'd have to be inches away from Level 19, as you can't spend enough XP to drop you a level, but you could do it! That is, it's cheaper just to cast 3 Wishes than to Wish for a Luck Blade. Check the XP cost portion of the spell. Yes, I got that and you're right too. The thing is, the Wish was granted at the end of an Adventure by a friendly gold dragon. I naturally assumed that the gold dragon would have to pay the XP cost. Or wouldn't he?
Anathema 09-09-07, 10:21 AM	If it's a dragon who is providing a boon to players, and one of your players wishes for a luck blade, I would simply have the dragon say "ho ho ho, silly adventurers, you can't wish for THAT!"
Nephlite 09-09-07, 10:25 AM	Yes, I got that and you're right too. The thing is, the Wish was granted at the end of an Adventure by a friendly gold dragon. I naturally assumed that the gold dragon would have to pay the XP cost. Or wouldn't he? Have the Dragon say: I have the energy to create such a wish, please try again. I mean, that is a lot of XP.
Fuzzy_Chompers 09-09-07, 11:15 AM	Yeah, if it costs that much XP, then that's a bit beyond the boundaries of even this dragon's generosity, I'd think. Just have him/her calmly explain that such a wish would be far too taxing (read: Cost too much XP). ... furthermore, I'd wonder how the character knew of the existence of the Luck Blade. Do they have ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) or access to Bardic Lore? Did you make them roll for it?
Merestil Haye 09-10-07, 04:28 AM	It's actually worse than you might think. I haven't done the math yet, but the xp costs look wrong. The general rule is that when an item holds a spell which requires an xp cost to cast, that the xp cost be paid as an additional cost to create. In short, the Luckblade with three Wishes should certainly cost over 15,000xp to make because that is the cost of three Wishes. I'll crunch some numbers later, but I think this was overlooked by the designers when they calculated the cost. Compare with the Ring of Three Wishes, for example.
Dherki 09-10-07, 05:04 AM	A luck blade with 0 wishes on it certainly would meet the requirements of the Wish.
Phrennzy 09-10-07, 10:22 AM	While the Luck Blade with 0 wishes would fit the bill, it also Rat ****s the player. Don't be that DM. Since the Dragon is granting the wish, the dragon sets the parameters. As we have all learned from Aladdin, you cannot wish for more wishes. PC: "I wish for a Luck Blade." Dragon: "Don't be an ass." PC: "Sorry."
Merestil Haye 09-10-07, 01:29 PM	That didn't take as long as I feared. The cost of the Luckblade varies linearly with the number of wishes. Each Wish you put in increases the market price of the blade by 40,300gp. If you assume that this is comprised of the cost for adding the Wish to the blade and the compensation for the additional xp cost (at 1xp =>5gp) the cost for the Wish in the blade is 15,300gp. This turns out to be exactly twice the value of adding a single Wish to a ring of three Wishes, and that cost is for a use-activated device that stores a single use of a 9th level spell at caster level 17. What's gone wrong then is that the cost to create has been calculated not from the base price, but from the market price. The base price does not include compensation for expensive material components or xp components. I have recalculated the costs of the Luckblade when the rules on paying additional costs are applied, shown in the following table. Market Base gp cost xp cost # Wish Price Price to create to create 0 22,060 22,060 11,030 882 1 62,360 37,360 18,680 6,494 2 102,660 52,660 26,330 12,106 3 142,960 67,960 33,980 17,718It follows then that someone Wishing for a luckblade with three Wishes will not be able to pay it until they have 40,436xp to spare. The very earliest that can happen is 20th level. I'll never bother saying this can't be done. Just tell them the xp cost and let them decide if they want to pay it. (And no, tricks like casting Wish from a device or getting another creature to do it on your behalf don't work. Not in my game. You want the item? You pay the additional xp cost).
PhaedrusXY 09-10-07, 01:34 PM	While the Luck Blade with 0 wishes would fit the bill, it also Rat ****s the player. Don't be that DM. It's not that bad. A Luckblade with 0 wishes is still a great item. It gives you a 1/day reroll and +1 to all your saves, and you don't even technically need to be wielding it. And I do think the PC is trying to "cheat" by asking for one in the first place.
DouglasN 09-10-07, 04:38 PM	Thanks for all the replies. I'm actually a bit baffled that there are no hard and fast rules against this! But all your input is very much appreciated. It's not that bad. A Luckblade with 0 wishes is still a great item. It gives you a 1/day reroll and +1 to all your saves, and you don't even technically need to be wielding it. I'd say so too, it's a fine thing. And I do think the PC is trying to "cheat" by asking for one in the first place. Yes he is, he confessed to it. :rolleyes:
KillerGM 09-10-07, 07:18 PM	PC: "I wish for a Luck Blade." Dragon: "Don't be an ass." PC: "Sorry." LMAO. That is pure win. I agree with the rest of the post, but that just made me laugh.
runestar 09-10-07, 08:50 PM	You could just have the PC pay the extra xp need to wish for the magic item. The dragon simply subsidizes the core 5000xp cost, nothing more.:)
Mock26 09-10-07, 10:17 PM	If a player were to actually say, "I wish for a luck blade," chances are I'd give him one. But, it wouldn't have any wishes on it. Without the wishes it really isn't all that powerful of a weapon.
Kratch 09-15-07, 11:12 PM	Depending on how you want to look at how the wish grants it's benifits as far as magic items, you can ether allow it or deny it. I tend to say that it is the wish crafting the magic item (since it discusses needing to pay the xp requirments, it stands to reason the item is being crafted, not stolen from elsewere). A wish is not a creature, thus has no xp to fuel the creation proccess, this is why it takes from the caster, the double is for whatever flavour text you want (i usually just say it's due to the inefficiency of the xp not coming from the creator, but from another source instead). The wish is only capable of creating 25,000gp woth of material, therefor, any item that has more then 25,000gp in base materials cannot be crafted with wish (it can't create enough of the raw materials to complete the item). Wish can only duplicate spells of 8th level or lower (wizard spells), thus it cannot create an item with a 9th level pre-requisit spell, as it does not have access to that spell to use as a prerequisite in the crafting. The caster level of the wish caster is used as the caster level with which a wish can create with (IE: the wish's CL is equal to that of it's caster), in other words, a 17th level caster casting wish cannot create an item requireing an 18th level caster or higher (can't think of a case where this is relevent, but ...). Now, I'll admit, none of this has any direct RAW support, but I do believe there is precedent for making these ruleings (in part or in whole), and I use them myself to maintain some control (note, no candles of gate can be made). Alternatively, you could have the dragon be particularly offended by the players greed, and grant him a cursed sword that appears to be a luckblade.
Nephlite 09-15-07, 11:39 PM	The wish is only capable of creating 25,000gp woth of material, therefor, any item that has more then 25,000gp in base materials cannot be crafted with wish (it can't create enough of the raw materials to complete the item). Wish can only duplicate spells of 8th level or lower (wizard spells), thus it cannot create an item with a 9th level pre-requisit spell, as it does not have access to that spell to use as a prerequisite in the crafting. The caster level of the wish caster is used as the caster level with which a wish can create with (IE: the wish's CL is equal to that of it's caster), in other words, a 17th level caster casting wish cannot create an item requireing an 18th level caster or higher (can't think of a case where this is relevent, but ...). Now, I'll admit, none of this has any direct RAW support, but I do believe there is precedent for making these ruleings (in part or in whole), and I use them myself to maintain some control (note, no candles of gate can be made). Alternatively, you could have the dragon be particularly offended by the players greed, and grant him a cursed sword that appears to be a luckblade. So you limit wish to 25, 000 gp (the mundane limit) even thogh it says it can surpass that in magic items... why?
Kratch 09-16-07, 01:37 AM	So you limit wish to 25, 000 gp (the mundane limit) even thogh it says it can surpass that in magic items... why? Raw materials to craft an item are usually half market price. So it can typically craft a 50kgp magic item (what it can create the raw materials for crafting). If you can quote where it expressly states the magic item limited is unlimited, rather then an absence of any actual ruling, feel free to do so, though, I did add a disclaimer stating these where how I interpreted wish to create magic items. My reasoning for all my above mentioned rulings are to prevent abuse. Just like it takes multiple wish's to gain a large inherent bonus, it take multiple wish's to create a very expensive magical item.
Kratch 09-19-07, 10:30 AM	EDIT: never mind.
Infernostrider 09-19-07, 10:50 AM	there are 2 things dabbling in my mind.... 1: what if the dragon doesn't know a luckblade exists or has ever even heard of it? true, dragons are long living, mystical beings, but not omniscient. it wouldn't be illogical to assume one needs to have certain knowledge of an item (what it looks like, where it is etc) to teleport it to you through ANY spell, including a wish. 2: have the dragon grand the wish, and say the following "You are now holding a sword, it looks magnificent, and glows whenever you unsheath it" it can also hold the inscription "luck blade". Later the party finds out (before using it, preferably!) that it's just another sword you can buy at ANY blacksmith, it was glowing because of the light reflecting upon it, and it has no powers at all! duped by a dragon ^^ one might even combine the 2 options, having the dragon think about what it could be, not knowing and just deciding to make him believe what he wants. gold dragons are good aligned, but they are still allowed little white lies right? adventurers bugger off, and they are happy too:D story arc: revenge on the dragon ><!!!!
TiwazTyrsfist 09-19-07, 11:05 AM	Give him a luck blade with ONE wish on it. So, he gets a wish and a free +2 shortsword, more or less. And if he uses THAT wish to wish for a wishing item, he gets a used up one with zero wishes.
april151978 09-20-07, 11:48 AM	My players have learned to not make wishes unless they word them very carefully... When they wished for that Luck Blade, did they specify how they recived it?... If not, stick it to them, literally...
Mel Ann Cholly 09-20-07, 05:17 PM	"A quid pro quo? You mean a limitation, on wish making? Some all powerful genie you are" :)
Starcloud 09-20-07, 05:25 PM	Hmm... In previous editions, I would have said "Okay, here's your Luck blade, it has one wish left." Because in previous editions, the sword turns into a basic +1 sword once all the wishes have been used. In 3rd edition, because the depleted Luck Blade is so much more useful than a +1 sword, I'd have to agree and say that he gets a Luck Blade with no wishes left.
heffroncm 09-21-07, 11:50 PM	I don't understand why there is so much discussion about this. The rules are laid out specifically. You can wish for any magic item you want, you just have to be able to pay the XP cost. The XP cost is listed as double the crafting cost, plus 5,000 XP. I highly doubt, even if a Dragon has granted you a Wish, that he's going to be willing to grant that big of a Wish. Getting a Luckblade with 1 charge left costs as much XP as 2 Wishes. The Dragon would probably call you a moron and leave. As for Merestil Haye's new Luckblade price chart, it's unneccessary. Casting a Wish for a Luckblade costs you MORE XP than just casting 3 Wishes. Sure, you can use the Craft feat to make a Luckblade at a significantly reduced XP cost, which you can't use other Craft feats for, but you're also spending a feat to do so, most campaigns don't allow significant crafting time, the feat isn't as good a choice as other craft feats, and you can always limit some essential material if you want to Rule 0 it.
Jhulae 09-22-07, 02:53 AM	My players have learned to not make wishes unless they word them very carefully... When they wished for that Luck Blade, did they specify how they recived it?... If not, stick it to them, literally... Except, that's wrong. By the RAW, if they're wishing for one of the 'stock' things, there's absolutely zero chance they'll get shafted, even if they don't 'word it very carefully'. The standard Wish choices are "Non-shaftable". If they decide to go *beyond* what's listed as standard, then they're getting into risky territory.
Kratch 09-22-07, 03:10 AM	Except, that's wrong. By the RAW, if they're wishing for one of the 'stock' things, there's absolutely zero chance they'll get shafted, even if they don't 'word it very carefully'. The standard Wish choices are "Non-shaftable". If they decide to go *beyond* what's listed as standard, then they're getting into risky territory. That is in fact the case if the wish maker is the caster, not just the recipient. How it works to grant others the wish is not so clear. At no point in the spell description does it say it grants another the ability to get what they want, simply that the caster can reshape reality to his will, and that it can produce a number of effects, including a few effects that can benifit others. The question first has to be answered, how does the casting of a wish effect another creature, does it only allow the caster to reshape reality to benifit someone else (in which case it's the casters desires that get fulfilled, not the recipient, and if the caster desired a lukblade through the gullet, so be it. Not that i agree with that course of action). Alternatively, the spell might grant another creature the ability to reshape reality to their whim (though the fact the text doesn't actually say that, and the fact that it would make the "grant a creature a +1 inherant bonus" redundant (why would you need to grant another creature a bonus when you can grant that other creature the ability to reshape reality?) leads me, personally, to believe it is the former option.). I'm currently having a debate about this very idea here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=926259)
RaspK FOG 09-22-07, 03:28 AM	The text referring to benefitting others refers to resurrection effects and the like; the caster practically benefits from every use of the spell, since he does not need to tell his ally, for example, to wait a month to find the raw materials and make something - he simply crafts it in a very short span of time. :P On the other hand, I tend to agree with the notion that Wish should never be able to create a magical item whose mundane worth surpasses 25.000 gp; in other words, if the non-magical matierals and build of an item go over 25K, you cannot create such a magical item with the Wish spell. This should not extend to the total cost of a magical item from all things taken into account, since these costs include aspects that are paid in the form of additional XP and the players should never be triple-penalised for intelligence.
Jhulae 09-22-07, 03:46 AM	That is in fact the case if the wish maker is the caster, not just the recipient. How it works to grant others the wish is not so clear. At no point in the spell description does it say it grants another the ability to get what they want, simply that the caster can reshape reality to his will, and that it can produce a number of effects, including a few effects that can benifit others. The question first has to be answered, how does the casting of a wish effect another creature, does it only allow the caster to reshape reality to benifit someone else (in which case it's the casters desires that get fulfilled, not the recipient, and if the caster desired a lukblade through the gullet, so be it. Not that i agree with that course of action). Alternatively, the spell might grant another creature the ability to reshape reality to their whim (though the fact the text doesn't actually say that, and the fact that it would make the "grant a creature a +1 inherant bonus" redundant (why would you need to grant another creature a bonus when you can grant that other creature the ability to reshape reality?) leads me, personally, to believe it is the former option.). I'm currently having a debate about this very idea here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=926259) The caster is always the wish maker. The asking character, in this case, is simply asking for an item for the caster to wish for. The Caster actually 'wishes' for this item, then (possibly) hands it over to the asking character. Now, after the caster (dragon in this case) obtains the Luckblade via it's wish, *the Dragon* can stick it into the character's gullet for trying to cheese the wishes that way... Similarly, the caster is the one who provides the inherent bonus to the creature being cast on. Neither the recipient of the bonus nor the caster is going to get shafted by the use of Wish, as it's one of the acceptable items.
Merestil Haye 09-22-07, 07:48 AM	As for Merestil Haye's new Luckblade price chart, it's unneccessary. Casting a Wish for a Luckblade costs you MORE XP than just casting 3 Wishes. Sure, you can use the Craft feat to make a Luckblade at a significantly reduced XP cost, which you can't use other Craft feats for, but you're also spending a feat to do so, most campaigns don't allow significant crafting time, the feat isn't as good a choice as other craft feats, and you can always limit some essential material if you want to Rule 0 it.The problem I have with the Luckblade is precisely that you can make the Luckblades for cheap. This is at once breaking the rules of item construction costs and contradicting every precedent in the DMG on how items with costly components are priced. The reconstruction of the chart is necessary for game consistency. There is also the issue that there are ways around the crafting time and virtually any other hurdle the DM wants to put in their way, if they work at it. The Artisan feat that reduces crafting time? The one that reduces xp cost? The Artificer class as a whole, come to think of it. Or you could resort to finding a place where time runs faster. Unavailable material? We'll do some research, trace down the materials and go fetch them ourselves. We get the materials instead of paying and earn xp for overcoming challenges on the way there. Win-win! Basically, what I'm saying here is that you are better off fixing the actual problem - that the costs to create Luckblades are wrongly calculated - than just trying to patch it with ad-hoc rulings and situational arguments that give the players additional ways to break the game.
heffroncm 09-22-07, 10:30 AM	The problem I have with the Luckblade is precisely that you can make the Luckblades for cheap. This is at once breaking the rules of item construction costs and contradicting every precedent in the DMG on how items with costly components are priced. The reconstruction of the chart is necessary for game consistency. There is also the issue that there are ways around the crafting time and virtually any other hurdle the DM wants to put in their way, if they work at it. The Artisan feat that reduces crafting time? The one that reduces xp cost? The Artificer class as a whole, come to think of it. Or you could resort to finding a place where time runs faster. Unavailable material? We'll do some research, trace down the materials and go fetch them ourselves. We get the materials instead of paying and earn xp for overcoming challenges on the way there. Win-win! Basically, what I'm saying here is that you are better off fixing the actual problem - that the costs to create Luckblades are wrongly calculated - than just trying to patch it with ad-hoc rulings and situational arguments that give the players additional ways to break the game. You're going to need to change the rules of the feat entirely then. Craft Magic Arms and Armor is the only feat that bypasses expensive components. Every other feat specifically calls out that you have to spend the component cost. Heck, you can make a Luck Blade using Miracle, which only has an XP cost for abilities that are more powerful than a Wish. Admittedly, Luck Blade is one of the few DMG Weapon or Armor that use an XP cost spell. It's also one of the excedingly few that recquires a Caster Level of 17 to make even the basest Luck Blade, which you won't find in most cities. Other examples of XP cost items are Fortification, uses a Limited Wish or Miracle and runs off Bonus pricing; Invulnerability uses Stoneskin and is a +5. I can't imagine the bonus system takes into account the component costs of Limited Wish or Stoneskin. I do question why you would want to charge so much more for the Wishes in a Luck Blade, though. If the only differance between the 882 XP Luck Blade and the one with 3 Wishes is the Wishes, one would think it would cost 15,882 XP to make. If you are playing an Eberron game, your players are going to be overloaded with items unless you're very, very careful anyway. If you aren't playing an Eberron game, most of the cheap item creation feats, the Artificer class, and all plains where time runs faster than normal aren't available. The whole idea with the unavailable material is it makes your players work for something in game, instead of just pointing at some rules in a book. You make it something that they have to quest for, boom, instant plot-hook. Anyway, it all comes down to you and I have differing views on how to fix the problem. I think talking to the players and working it out in-game is a much more elegant solution, you prefer to just change the cost to match up with the rest of the Wish-capable items. Both have their merits, neither is the right answer.
Merestil Haye 09-22-07, 11:31 AM	You're going to need to change the rules of the feat entirely then. Craft Magic Arms and Armor is the only feat that bypasses expensive components. Every other feat specifically calls out that you have to spend the component cost. Heck, you can make a Luck Blade using Miracle, which only has an XP cost for abilities that are more powerful than a Wish. Admittedly, Luck Blade is one of the few DMG Weapon or Armor that use an XP cost spell. It's also one of the excedingly few that recquires a Caster Level of 17 to make even the basest Luck Blade, which you won't find in most cities. Other examples of XP cost items are Fortification, uses a Limited Wish or Miracle and runs off Bonus pricing; Invulnerability uses Stoneskin and is a +5. I can't imagine the bonus system takes into account the component costs of Limited Wish or Stoneskin.In the general case I'd agree. But what you are doing adding Wishes to a Luck Blade is more akin to creating potions of Wish. They are single-use use-activated powers that once used are gone forever. The same pricing system is used for the Ring of Wishes. Point taken on the craft feat though. I do question why you would want to charge so much more for the Wishes in a Luck Blade, though. If the only differance between the 882 XP Luck Blade and the one with 3 Wishes is the Wishes, one would think it would cost 15,882 XP to make.Because the base cost of putting the Wish in is 15,300 plus the xp cost of the Wish. You have to pay 5,612 xp - 5,000 for the Wish plus 612 for enchanting the Wish into the blade. This is double the cost of putting a single Wish into a Ring of Three Wishes. There are all sorts of reasons why the base cost might be doubled. The fact that the two costs are simply related is one of the reasons I believe that the costs to create were miscalculated. (The other being that gaining xp by creating items is so 2nd edition...) If you are playing an Eberron game, your players are going to be overloaded with items unless you're very, very careful anyway. If you aren't playing an Eberron game, most of the cheap item creation feats, the Artificer class, and all plains where time runs faster than normal aren't available.True on the items and feats. False on the alternate planes. Anyway, it all comes down to you and I have differing views on how to fix the problem. I think talking to the players and working it out in-game is a much more elegant solution, you prefer to just change the cost to match up with the rest of the Wish-capable items. Both have their merits, neither is the right answer.I think we can agree on that. :)
heffroncm 09-22-07, 11:42 AM	True on the items and feats. False on the alternate planes. Believe me, I've been trying as hard as I can to find a plane where time runs faster than normal in the standard Great Wheel cosmology. The only one that reliably runs faster is listed as optional, and not a safe place for item creation. Also, all 3.5 spells and abilities that create demiplanes specifically say you can't affect the Time Trait. You can use the unupdated 3.0 Genesis spell from Defenders of the Faithful, but there is a 3.5 ability called Genesis (psionic, not divine) which does not allow you to manipulate Time Trait. So basically, if you're playing in Faerun or Greyhawk or anything but Eberron, your access to any plane that has an accelerated Time Trait is entirely DM Fiat.
Kratch 09-22-07, 05:37 PM	The caster is always the wish maker. The asking character, in this case, is simply asking for an item for the caster to wish for. The Caster actually 'wishes' for this item, then (possibly) hands it over to the asking character. Now, after the caster (dragon in this case) obtains the Luckblade via it's wish, *the Dragon* can stick it into the character's gullet for trying to cheese the wishes that way... Similarly, the caster is the one who provides the inherent bonus to the creature being cast on. Neither the recipient of the bonus nor the caster is going to get shafted by the use of Wish, as it's one of the acceptable items. I agree with this entirely.
Goblinchaser 10-02-07, 12:30 PM	I am so glad I house ruled this a long time ago, as such Items that grant wishes, have a XP resivoir, typically only the base needed for the wish itself. It uses this XP resivoir to make the effects happen. Ie.. a ring of 3 wishes having 15,000 xp available (5000 each) is unable to create a magic item unless the PC wants to blow two wishes allowing up to 5000 XP from the second wish for the crafting. This also fixed the luck blade issue, as if the creator wants to make the luck blade grant more powerful wishes then it takes a greater investment xp during creation. With that in mind it still allows the wishing characters to wish to produce greater effects, but limits the loops and the general discussions and me having to make a ruling that just rattles the players.
heffroncm 10-02-07, 03:01 PM	STUFF That's a perfectly reasonable houserule, and actually has RAW support. The XP component of a normal Wish is 5,000 XP. If you make an item that casts Wish, then you have to expend the XP component. The amount of XP you spend on the component would determine the maximum strength of the Wish available from the item. The big problem comes in with the various creatures that have Wish as a Spell Like Ability. They can use Wish, and skip the XP component cost.
JulesCARV 10-02-07, 06:34 PM	Heck, you can make a Luck Blade using Miracle, which only has an XP cost for abilities that are more powerful than a Wish. Where did you get this? Miracle has some explicitly stated abilities, some of which go beyond wish (duplicating any spell of level 7 or lower, compared to wish only being able to gaurantee spells of level 5 or lower), and some of which are available for wish but not miracle (creating magic items, creating mundane items of 25,000 gp or less, granting inherent bonuses, undoing past misfortune). In addition, both wish and miracle allow you to try to do something beyond the stated uses. Miracle costs experience if you do try to go beyond the explicit uses into the "very powerful request" territory. As for "very powerful requests," whether you'll get them depends on the deity. A deity of craft might instantly grant requested magic items, in exchange for wish-style XP costs, but other deities might not. Personally, as DM, I'd limit Miracle's expansion into Wish territory (creating magic items, granting inherent bonuses (without crafting a Tome/Manual), etc) as much as is reasonable for for the cleric's religion or deity. Miracle is already a better spell than wish in many ways, chiefly in being usable day-to-day without XP costs for most circumstances, and I think that wish, although less practical on a day-to-day basis, should retain some areas where it's superior. For example, I'd let a cleric of Kord use miracle to request inherent bonuses to strength (in exchange for 5,000 xp), even though it expands Miracle into Wish territory, because strength is appropriate to Kord, but not other abilities like charisma, which would be reserved for Wish. A cleric of Kord that had Craft Wondrous Item, of course, could still use miracle as a spell prerequisite for crafting a Tome of Leadership and Influence, but that would require spending a feat and a few days doing said crafting. Similarly, I'd let a cleric of a deity of wealth like Kol Korran request fifty pounds of platinum in exchange for 5,000 xp, but not others (yes, this is Eberron, and Kol Korran (probably) isn't literally approving or disapproving miracles, but deities still do have certain domains, implying that they grant certain powers and not others to their clergy). Once again, this expands MIracle into Wish territory, but in a manner appropriate to the deity. In short, I believe Wish should, in general, be more powerful and versatile, and Miracle should be more practical and useful on a day-to-day basis. Allowing Miracle to do anything Wish can do without spending experience, and then allowing it to do things that Wish can't even possibly do for Wish's XP cost, unbalances the spells.
meabolex 10-05-07, 08:16 AM	Considering the rather high requirements to make a luck blade (wish or miracle), I think wishing for one with zero wishes is a rather good idea. . . well, at least in situations where you don't have access to wish or miracle through the PCs.