You are your own ally? [Archive] - Wizards Community

You are your own ally? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kilmore
05-26-07, 10:34 PM There are many abilities that target an "ally". Can abilities like that target yourself?

Specifically how does this apply to white raven maneuvers such as white raven tactics and the swarming tactics feat?
runestar
05-26-07, 11:46 PM I think that either the Sage or Cust Serv has mentioned that you can be your own ally. However, you might still want to take this question to the CO boards where their knowledge of ToB intricacies is way superior to mine...:P
Morwen
05-27-07, 02:58 AM Yes, you are your own ally.

PHB glossary (page 304): Ally: A creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to "allies" include yourself.
Edymnion
05-27-07, 12:31 PM Yes, you are your own ally. But am I my own grandpa?
runestar
05-27-07, 10:53 PM But am I my own grandpa?
If you are futurama...;)
DM Denubis
05-27-07, 10:56 PM What if your character has serious emotional issues and therefore isn't friendly towards him or herself? ^^
Deep Blue 9000
05-27-07, 11:13 PM Then you should be playing Vampire.
Salla
05-27-07, 11:19 PM What if your character has serious emotional issues and therefore isn't friendly towards him or herself? ^^

Then you should be playing Vampire.

This makes me giggle.
Metafictional
05-28-07, 09:41 AM Now I know that an effect that says "affects all allies" like Bless or Bardic Music, does indeed affect the originator of the effect.

But I was looking at White Raven Tactics.

All the system mechanics say "target ally" or "one ally". So far, so good, looks like I could abuse WRT all day long, but...wait.

The flavor text states that to use the ability I dramatically flourish, cajole, and inspire my allies to take action.

I'm having a hard time imagining my character cheering himself on, saying "you can do it! I believe in you! Carpe Diem!" 0_o

So does the flavor text describe the intent of the power, that it's to be applied on allies who are not you, or is it just fluff, allowing players to use White Raven Tactics to give themselves extra actions?

I'm actually imagining some abuse here...
Metafictional
05-28-07, 09:52 AM Combo- The Machine

Required: White Raven Tactics (level 3 maneuver), access to power points., Psychic Renewal Feat, Psionic Meditation Feat.

You begin the encounter psionically focused.

During your first action, you use White Raven Tactics, as a Swift Action, giving "One ally", ie, yourself, an extra action this turn, on the next initiative count.

During your second action, you use Psychic Renewal and expend your Psionic Focus to regain White Raven Tactics as a Swift Action, this costs 3 power points. You then use a Move Action with Psionic Meditation to regain your Psionic Focus.

You basically get a free standard action (3.0 Haste!) each turn for 3 power points. Tossing in Instant Clarity for turns where you don't want to use WRT might help.

This may work by RAW, but note that WRT, if you rule it works this way, is better than Time Stands Still by itself.

I leave it to better minds than mine to decide on this, one way or another.
Merestil Haye
05-28-07, 10:37 AM There's at least one spell in Complete Champion that states you may boost your allies. It then adds that this does not affect you.

I've always understood "ally" to include yourself unless it's physically required for two or more people to work in cooperation (eg sneak attack) or if the effect explicitly excludes the originator from benefiting.

ETA : Found it. It's a prestige class ability, not a spell. (the Squire's Burden abilities of the Squire of Legend).
BloodSpill
05-28-07, 11:18 AM Perhaps White Raven Tactics and a small pocket mirror?
Rebel581
05-28-07, 11:32 AM I always pictured White Raven Tactics to affect yourself by you leading an example and feeling more confident yourself after taking the action. You know how when you feel worried about doing something, and then when you start, you feel a lot more confident about doing it?

Good thing I found this topic. We actually had this argument last session (I'm a Crusader focusing on White Raven), to end the argument quickly, I just said I wouldn't gain the benefit of my stances and I'd check online for next session.

EDIT: How would it work for Vanguard Strike or Leading the Attack? Would I gain a +4 morale bonus against the enemy I just hit too?
Metafictional
05-28-07, 12:41 PM Well the CharOp gang hasn't touched "The Machine" yet, but I did start asking myself what, since this is a partially Psionic build, a Manifester could do with the WRT trick.

Since you are basically getting 2 actions a turn, The Machine just has a good use for the second Move action, Schism might be pretty nasty. 4 Powers a turn? Rock on!
Salla
05-28-07, 05:11 PM I'm having a hard time imagining my character cheering himself on, saying "you can do it! I believe in you! Carpe Diem!" 0_o

"I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can ..."

So does the flavor text describe the intent of the power, that it's to be applied on allies who are not you, or is it just fluff, allowing players to use White Raven Tactics to give themselves extra actions?

I'm actually imagining some abuse here...

The descriptions are fluff text. If the rules of the maneuver/spell/power/whathaveyou don't specify that it doesn't affect you, then it can.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kilmore 05-26-07, 10:34 PM	There are many abilities that target an "ally". Can abilities like that target yourself? Specifically how does this apply to white raven maneuvers such as white raven tactics and the swarming tactics feat?
runestar 05-26-07, 11:46 PM	I think that either the Sage or Cust Serv has mentioned that you can be your own ally. However, you might still want to take this question to the CO boards where their knowledge of ToB intricacies is way superior to mine...:P
Morwen 05-27-07, 02:58 AM	Yes, you are your own ally. PHB glossary (page 304): Ally: A creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to "allies" include yourself.
Edymnion 05-27-07, 12:31 PM	Yes, you are your own ally. But am I my own grandpa?
runestar 05-27-07, 10:53 PM	But am I my own grandpa? If you are futurama...;)
DM Denubis 05-27-07, 10:56 PM	What if your character has serious emotional issues and therefore isn't friendly towards him or herself? ^^
Deep Blue 9000 05-27-07, 11:13 PM	Then you should be playing Vampire.
Salla 05-27-07, 11:19 PM	What if your character has serious emotional issues and therefore isn't friendly towards him or herself? ^^ Then you should be playing Vampire. This makes me giggle.
Metafictional 05-28-07, 09:41 AM	Now I know that an effect that says "affects all allies" like Bless or Bardic Music, does indeed affect the originator of the effect. But I was looking at White Raven Tactics. All the system mechanics say "target ally" or "one ally". So far, so good, looks like I could abuse WRT all day long, but...wait. The flavor text states that to use the ability I dramatically flourish, cajole, and inspire my allies to take action. I'm having a hard time imagining my character cheering himself on, saying "you can do it! I believe in you! Carpe Diem!" 0_o So does the flavor text describe the intent of the power, that it's to be applied on allies who are not you, or is it just fluff, allowing players to use White Raven Tactics to give themselves extra actions? I'm actually imagining some abuse here...
Metafictional 05-28-07, 09:52 AM	Combo- The Machine Required: White Raven Tactics (level 3 maneuver), access to power points., Psychic Renewal Feat, Psionic Meditation Feat. You begin the encounter psionically focused. During your first action, you use White Raven Tactics, as a Swift Action, giving "One ally", ie, yourself, an extra action this turn, on the next initiative count. During your second action, you use Psychic Renewal and expend your Psionic Focus to regain White Raven Tactics as a Swift Action, this costs 3 power points. You then use a Move Action with Psionic Meditation to regain your Psionic Focus. You basically get a free standard action (3.0 Haste!) each turn for 3 power points. Tossing in Instant Clarity for turns where you don't want to use WRT might help. This may work by RAW, but note that WRT, if you rule it works this way, is better than Time Stands Still by itself. I leave it to better minds than mine to decide on this, one way or another.
Merestil Haye 05-28-07, 10:37 AM	There's at least one spell in Complete Champion that states you may boost your allies. It then adds that this does not affect you. I've always understood "ally" to include yourself unless it's physically required for two or more people to work in cooperation (eg sneak attack) or if the effect explicitly excludes the originator from benefiting. ETA : Found it. It's a prestige class ability, not a spell. (the Squire's Burden abilities of the Squire of Legend).
BloodSpill 05-28-07, 11:18 AM	Perhaps White Raven Tactics and a small pocket mirror?
Rebel581 05-28-07, 11:32 AM	I always pictured White Raven Tactics to affect yourself by you leading an example and feeling more confident yourself after taking the action. You know how when you feel worried about doing something, and then when you start, you feel a lot more confident about doing it? Good thing I found this topic. We actually had this argument last session (I'm a Crusader focusing on White Raven), to end the argument quickly, I just said I wouldn't gain the benefit of my stances and I'd check online for next session. EDIT: How would it work for Vanguard Strike or Leading the Attack? Would I gain a +4 morale bonus against the enemy I just hit too?
Metafictional 05-28-07, 12:41 PM	Well the CharOp gang hasn't touched "The Machine" yet, but I did start asking myself what, since this is a partially Psionic build, a Manifester could do with the WRT trick. Since you are basically getting 2 actions a turn, The Machine just has a good use for the second Move action, Schism might be pretty nasty. 4 Powers a turn? Rock on!
Salla 05-28-07, 05:11 PM	I'm having a hard time imagining my character cheering himself on, saying "you can do it! I believe in you! Carpe Diem!" 0_o "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can ..." So does the flavor text describe the intent of the power, that it's to be applied on allies who are not you, or is it just fluff, allowing players to use White Raven Tactics to give themselves extra actions? I'm actually imagining some abuse here... The descriptions are fluff text. If the rules of the maneuver/spell/power/whathaveyou don't specify that it doesn't affect you, then it can.