+1 level of existing class [Archive] - Wizards Community

+1 level of existing class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chuckachu
08-17-05, 01:26 PM I'm in a campaign where I'm taking a Prestige class that has +1 level of existing class for spells and I can't find out what happens if I return to my old class. Do I still gain new spells as if I kept leveling without taking the prestige class or does that stop me where I'm at? Can't really figure this one out, from a balance stand point I'd think if I effectivly fill out my spellcasting spells per day list I could go no further when I returned to the original class. But in this person's campaign my party members and my self would be much better off if their bandaid could keep up with them.

FYI:
Currently a lvl 5 Cleric and about to take the Dracolyte Prestige class from the Draconomicon.
Temrek
08-17-05, 01:32 PM If you are 5th level cleric and has +2 levels to existing class from prestiege classes you cast spells as a 7th level cleric. If you would take another level of cleric you would cast spells as an 8th level cleric.
chuckachu
08-17-05, 01:59 PM What I'm looking at is it spell wise continued advancement if I complete the 10 lvls of Dracolyte and return to Cleric? Say Cleric 5/Dracolyte 10 or for casting a 15 lvl Cleric. Now if I returned to cleric Cleric 6/Dracolyte 10 would I be the same as a lvl 16 cleric for spells or would there be no gain till I reached Cleric lvls that exceeded my Dracolyte?
Temrek
08-17-05, 02:03 PM What I'm looking at is it spell wise continued advancement if I complete the 10 lvls of Dracolyte and return to Cleric? Say Cleric 5/Dracolyte 10 or for casting a 15 lvl Cleric. Now if I returned to cleric Cleric 6/Dracolyte 10 would I be the same as a lvl 16 cleric for spells or would there be no gain till I reached Cleric lvls that exceeded my Dracolyte?

You would cast spells as 16th level cleric.

It is pretty much the same as a paladins turn undead ability stacks with a clerics.
Board_Rider
08-17-05, 02:03 PM Now if I returned to cleric Cleric 6/Dracolyte 10 would I be the same as a lvl 16 cleric for spells or would there be no gain till I reached Cleric lvls that exceeded my Dracolyte?
Not only would you be considered 16th level cleric for spellcasting but for turning undead as well.
chuckachu
08-17-05, 03:01 PM Thanks. ^_^ One last question. Once I got the 5Clr/10Draco once I took 6 cleric would my spells/day increase AGAIN? As in would I get lvl 6 clerics spells per day in addition to the spells per day gained via the 10 Dracolyte or would I get nothing but an effective caster level of 16 as you mentioned before?
DrMorganes
08-17-05, 03:08 PM Yep.

That +1 existing caster (or manifester) level stacks with everything except class features dependant on class level. The most obvious example of this is familiars/psicrystals. Taking levels in a prestige class that adds +1 caster level DOES NOT allow your familiar/psicrystal to increase in power. I can't think of a divine counterpart for clerics...
Santrilla
08-17-05, 03:39 PM Related question. I've never been absolutely certain about this, but '+1 level of existing spellcasting class'- does that apply to spells known as well? Or just spells per day?

For example. Sor 6 / Ftr 1 takes two levels of Eldritch Knight. She now 'casts spells as a level 8 sorcerer'. Does this mean she can cast level 4 spells and, more importantly, does she HAVE level 4 spells to cast? What if it was wizard instead of sorcerer?
Temrek
08-17-05, 03:43 PM Both spells known and per day, I am not certain if a wizard gets her two free spells/level though.
Wharin
08-17-05, 03:53 PM Not only would you be considered 16th level cleric for spellcasting but for turning undead as well.

Are you sure thats right? I really don't think that's right. Unless, that is, if the PrC in question specifically mentions that. I know for a fact that a good number of PrC's at least used to specifically mention, as an example, that they wouldnt increase their turning ability and whatnot. That said, i know nothing of this PrC in question, so its probably all moot, anyway.
Santrilla
08-17-05, 04:11 PM Both spells known and per day, I am not certain if a wizard gets her two free spells/level though.

See, now, that's what I was hoping the answer would be. BUT!

Look at the 'Loremaster' prestige class. It specifically states 'Spells Per Day / Spells Known' and the description reads as follows:

When a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class.

Now, the bolded clauses are unique to the Loremaster PrC (out of the core PrCs, anyway). All the other spellcasting PrCS have a similar paragraph but don't specify spells known.

This suggests that getting extra spells known is not standard.
Board_Rider
08-17-05, 05:56 PM Are you sure thats right? I really don't think that's right. Unless, that is, if the PrC in question specifically mentions that.
Yeah you're right...on both accounts. I guess it's true
"I drink the booze, I lose"
anarco_rata
08-17-05, 08:42 PM Now, the bolded clauses are unique to the Loremaster PrC (out of the core PrCs, anyway). All the other spellcasting PrCS have a similar paragraph but don't specify spells known.

This suggests that getting extra spells known is not standard.
that must be a typo, i have always ruled that when you take a PRC level that boost your spells per day, you aslo got spell know as if you gained a lvl in the class. If not, PRCs with caster would be truly bad chices, and everybody would stick to followin the core path
chuckachu
08-18-05, 02:00 PM But what I'd like to know is if I got to lvl 5 cleric then every level of Dracolyte (page 122 of the Dragonomicon which says; When a new lvl is gained char. gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a lvl in a divine spellcasting lcass he belonged to before he added the prestige class; but after ten levels I've learned the equivlant of lvl 15 cleric. But do I gain cleric lvl 6th spells per day on top of the spells I already know when I finish the 10 lvls of the prestige class and return to cleric making it Clr 6/Dracolyte 10?
Wharin
08-18-05, 02:26 PM As far as all spell casting is concerned, your Cleric 6/DD 10 is treated as a 16th level caster through and through. When you gain that 6th level of Cleric, as far as spells go, you might as well be looking at the 16th levels spell casting, for that is what you can do.

You don't repeat the spells per day gain of level 6. Instead you advance as a 16th level caster, for all intents and purposes (that involve spells)
GreyLord
08-18-05, 04:34 PM Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign?
CravesLove
09-15-05, 11:21 AM Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign?

Wouldn't Cleric 11/DD 10 = character level 21, be epic?
strenoth
09-15-05, 04:36 PM It's simpll.. add level of "+1 to existing spellcasting" and levels of that class together, that's your total caster level. Every level, jsut add them together. Cleric 5/acolyte 10 = 15
Cleric 6/acolyte 10 = 16

So just look at the line for spellcasting at that new, total level

and ntohig else increases, unless the PrC specifically says otherwise, ie, Turning Undead, Domain abilities that say Class Level (ones that say CHaracter level woudl increase no matter what you Multiclassed with)
Black Kitten
09-15-05, 05:37 PM Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign?

When the Cleric goes Epic, to my knowledge, he still isn't a lvl 20 caster. Until such time he can gain a level of Cleric as an Epic level benefit endlessly and his spells would increase to lvl 9 over time.
MerricB
09-15-05, 09:46 PM Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign?

If you had a 15th level Cleric/10th level Radiant Servant of Pelor, for example, you'd have a caster level of 25. However, you'd use the 20th level cleric table for spells slots per day because there isn't anything above it.

Cheers!
MerricB
09-15-05, 09:48 PM See, now, that's what I was hoping the answer would be. BUT!

Look at the 'Loremaster' prestige class. It specifically states 'Spells Per Day / Spells Known' and the description reads as follows:

Now, the bolded clauses are unique to the Loremaster PrC (out of the core PrCs, anyway). All the other spellcasting PrCS have a similar paragraph but don't specify spells known.

This suggests that getting extra spells known is not standard.

It is merely a templating error. All prestige classes that increase spells castable also increase spells known (and the wizards free spells in their spellbook).

Cheers!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chuckachu 08-17-05, 01:26 PM	I'm in a campaign where I'm taking a Prestige class that has +1 level of existing class for spells and I can't find out what happens if I return to my old class. Do I still gain new spells as if I kept leveling without taking the prestige class or does that stop me where I'm at? Can't really figure this one out, from a balance stand point I'd think if I effectivly fill out my spellcasting spells per day list I could go no further when I returned to the original class. But in this person's campaign my party members and my self would be much better off if their bandaid could keep up with them. FYI: Currently a lvl 5 Cleric and about to take the Dracolyte Prestige class from the Draconomicon.
Temrek 08-17-05, 01:32 PM	If you are 5th level cleric and has +2 levels to existing class from prestiege classes you cast spells as a 7th level cleric. If you would take another level of cleric you would cast spells as an 8th level cleric.
chuckachu 08-17-05, 01:59 PM	What I'm looking at is it spell wise continued advancement if I complete the 10 lvls of Dracolyte and return to Cleric? Say Cleric 5/Dracolyte 10 or for casting a 15 lvl Cleric. Now if I returned to cleric Cleric 6/Dracolyte 10 would I be the same as a lvl 16 cleric for spells or would there be no gain till I reached Cleric lvls that exceeded my Dracolyte?
Temrek 08-17-05, 02:03 PM	What I'm looking at is it spell wise continued advancement if I complete the 10 lvls of Dracolyte and return to Cleric? Say Cleric 5/Dracolyte 10 or for casting a 15 lvl Cleric. Now if I returned to cleric Cleric 6/Dracolyte 10 would I be the same as a lvl 16 cleric for spells or would there be no gain till I reached Cleric lvls that exceeded my Dracolyte? You would cast spells as 16th level cleric. It is pretty much the same as a paladins turn undead ability stacks with a clerics.
Board_Rider 08-17-05, 02:03 PM	Now if I returned to cleric Cleric 6/Dracolyte 10 would I be the same as a lvl 16 cleric for spells or would there be no gain till I reached Cleric lvls that exceeded my Dracolyte? Not only would you be considered 16th level cleric for spellcasting but for turning undead as well.
chuckachu 08-17-05, 03:01 PM	Thanks. ^_^ One last question. Once I got the 5Clr/10Draco once I took 6 cleric would my spells/day increase AGAIN? As in would I get lvl 6 clerics spells per day in addition to the spells per day gained via the 10 Dracolyte or would I get nothing but an effective caster level of 16 as you mentioned before?
DrMorganes 08-17-05, 03:08 PM	Yep. That +1 existing caster (or manifester) level stacks with everything except class features dependant on class level. The most obvious example of this is familiars/psicrystals. Taking levels in a prestige class that adds +1 caster level DOES NOT allow your familiar/psicrystal to increase in power. I can't think of a divine counterpart for clerics...
Santrilla 08-17-05, 03:39 PM	Related question. I've never been absolutely certain about this, but '+1 level of existing spellcasting class'- does that apply to spells known as well? Or just spells per day? For example. Sor 6 / Ftr 1 takes two levels of Eldritch Knight. She now 'casts spells as a level 8 sorcerer'. Does this mean she can cast level 4 spells and, more importantly, does she HAVE level 4 spells to cast? What if it was wizard instead of sorcerer?
Temrek 08-17-05, 03:43 PM	Both spells known and per day, I am not certain if a wizard gets her two free spells/level though.
Wharin 08-17-05, 03:53 PM	Not only would you be considered 16th level cleric for spellcasting but for turning undead as well. Are you sure thats right? I really don't think that's right. Unless, that is, if the PrC in question specifically mentions that. I know for a fact that a good number of PrC's at least used to specifically mention, as an example, that they wouldnt increase their turning ability and whatnot. That said, i know nothing of this PrC in question, so its probably all moot, anyway.
Santrilla 08-17-05, 04:11 PM	Both spells known and per day, I am not certain if a wizard gets her two free spells/level though. See, now, that's what I was hoping the answer would be. BUT! Look at the 'Loremaster' prestige class. It specifically states 'Spells Per Day / Spells Known' and the description reads as follows: When a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. Now, the bolded clauses are unique to the Loremaster PrC (out of the core PrCs, anyway). All the other spellcasting PrCS have a similar paragraph but don't specify spells known. This suggests that getting extra spells known is not standard.
Board_Rider 08-17-05, 05:56 PM	Are you sure thats right? I really don't think that's right. Unless, that is, if the PrC in question specifically mentions that. Yeah you're right...on both accounts. I guess it's true "I drink the booze, I lose"
anarco_rata 08-17-05, 08:42 PM	Now, the bolded clauses are unique to the Loremaster PrC (out of the core PrCs, anyway). All the other spellcasting PrCS have a similar paragraph but don't specify spells known. This suggests that getting extra spells known is not standard. that must be a typo, i have always ruled that when you take a PRC level that boost your spells per day, you aslo got spell know as if you gained a lvl in the class. If not, PRCs with caster would be truly bad chices, and everybody would stick to followin the core path
chuckachu 08-18-05, 02:00 PM	But what I'd like to know is if I got to lvl 5 cleric then every level of Dracolyte (page 122 of the Dragonomicon which says; When a new lvl is gained char. gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a lvl in a divine spellcasting lcass he belonged to before he added the prestige class; but after ten levels I've learned the equivlant of lvl 15 cleric. But do I gain cleric lvl 6th spells per day on top of the spells I already know when I finish the 10 lvls of the prestige class and return to cleric making it Clr 6/Dracolyte 10?
Wharin 08-18-05, 02:26 PM	As far as all spell casting is concerned, your Cleric 6/DD 10 is treated as a 16th level caster through and through. When you gain that 6th level of Cleric, as far as spells go, you might as well be looking at the 16th levels spell casting, for that is what you can do. You don't repeat the spells per day gain of level 6. Instead you advance as a 16th level caster, for all intents and purposes (that involve spells)
GreyLord 08-18-05, 04:34 PM	Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign?
CravesLove 09-15-05, 11:21 AM	Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign? Wouldn't Cleric 11/DD 10 = character level 21, be epic?
strenoth 09-15-05, 04:36 PM	It's simpll.. add level of "+1 to existing spellcasting" and levels of that class together, that's your total caster level. Every level, jsut add them together. Cleric 5/acolyte 10 = 15 Cleric 6/acolyte 10 = 16 So just look at the line for spellcasting at that new, total level and ntohig else increases, unless the PrC specifically says otherwise, ie, Turning Undead, Domain abilities that say Class Level (ones that say CHaracter level woudl increase no matter what you Multiclassed with)
Black Kitten 09-15-05, 05:37 PM	Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign? When the Cleric goes Epic, to my knowledge, he still isn't a lvl 20 caster. Until such time he can gain a level of Cleric as an Epic level benefit endlessly and his spells would increase to lvl 9 over time.
MerricB 09-15-05, 09:46 PM	Here's a related question that should be interesting to see. What happens if you then, in the above example, get your cleric all the way up to 10th level. At 11th level would one stop gaining spells since they are then epic and epic rules apply? Or how would it be handled in your campaign? If you had a 15th level Cleric/10th level Radiant Servant of Pelor, for example, you'd have a caster level of 25. However, you'd use the 20th level cleric table for spells slots per day because there isn't anything above it. Cheers!
MerricB 09-15-05, 09:48 PM	See, now, that's what I was hoping the answer would be. BUT! Look at the 'Loremaster' prestige class. It specifically states 'Spells Per Day / Spells Known' and the description reads as follows: Now, the bolded clauses are unique to the Loremaster PrC (out of the core PrCs, anyway). All the other spellcasting PrCS have a similar paragraph but don't specify spells known. This suggests that getting extra spells known is not standard. It is merely a templating error. All prestige classes that increase spells castable also increase spells known (and the wizards free spells in their spellbook). Cheers!