Post/Author/DateTime	Post
vardock 12-31-06, 07:03 PM	Yes, I found a way for a 1'st level cleric to kill an infinite Cr creature with out any magic items or any help. a human 1st level cleric with the sun and glory domains, with improved turning and nimphs kiss (for a +2 to the turning check) for feats for the monster apply the evolved undead template to a Tomb mote, or another low HD intelligent undead as many times as you like. perform a greater turning and destroy it.
Ryusage 12-31-06, 07:17 PM	Interesting. It's too bad that Pun-Pun is better.
Reinforcements 12-31-06, 07:28 PM	Interesting. It's too bad that Pun-Pun is better. Oh wait, not interesting. The other thing. Tedious. This does kinda illustrate that turning is a wonky mechanic, though.
Kresalak 12-31-06, 07:28 PM	I don't get it. Are we supposed to be impressed? I mean, if you'd done something like the Word which actually required thinking, I'd care, but the ability to turn something with 1 HD and a huge number of templates?
Mitchell 01-01-07, 02:34 AM	And best of all, no XP! :cool:
IceFractal 01-01-07, 05:22 AM	I think that's more a demonstration of the fact that template CRs may not be accurate when applied an infinite number of times, which is hardly surprising. :P But I can trump that. I have a way for a blind 1st level commoner to kill any corporeal creature: 1) Have the creature asleep under a cliff at least 10' high. 2) Have a sufficiently massive object balanced on the cliff. 3) The commoner pushes the object onto the creature, killing it.
The_Fan 01-01-07, 09:02 AM	That goes along with what I call the "piano theory." For any corporeal creature, drop a large enough piano from a high enough distance and you will kill it. Said "piano" may be a metric ton of depleted uranium, and said distance may be orbital, but the theory is sound.
Rulebook 01-01-07, 10:06 AM	dropping it from orbit and dropping it from about 500' up will have about the same effect you know, and im not even talking game mechanics. ive always been a fan of the commoner-quarterstaff railgun attack. nothing like having to do einsteinian equations to calculate potential damage
The_Fan 01-01-07, 11:18 AM	true, but you will also be dealing with reentry, so it'll probably do some fire damage as well.
vardock 01-01-07, 12:56 PM	1: I think there is a max damage for falling objects (teminal velocity and all that) I think it is determined by a maximim number of incriments. but for most objects the max damage is 20d6. 2:the tomb mote has 3 HD. it is the lowest I could find for an intelligent undead without turn resistance. 3: it is not as simple as it sounds. the creature would have enought strength to fling the Tarrasque to the moon like a pebble. it think it is +2 per time added. it also would have a super high AC. The thing would be like SuperMan, and turning Is it's Cryptonite. it preaty much comes down to who acts first, and wheather or not the turning check is successful with at least a 75 percent chance of success.
Delfedd 01-01-07, 05:08 PM	Doesn't the evolved template give the creature turn resistance? Also, the evolved creature would um... blow you up. Evolved has several good offensive spells.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 01-01-07, 07:03 PM	1: I think there is a max damage for falling objects (teminal velocity and all that) I think it is determined by a maximim number of incriments. but for most objects the max damage is 20d6. Damage from height caps at 20d6. Damage from weight does not.
revaar 01-01-07, 11:21 PM	ive always been a fan of the commoner-quarterstaff railgun attack. nothing like having to do einsteinian equations to calculate potential damage what's this?
Bob_The_Wizard 01-01-07, 11:57 PM	ive always been a fan of the commoner-quarterstaff railgun attack. nothing like having to do einsteinian equations to calculate potential damageI'm unfamiliar with this. What is it and how does it work? EDIT: Someone else asked it while I was posting. :P
Rulebook 01-02-07, 04:18 AM	it works on abusing a few rules. 1: a round is 6 seconds 2: an object can be passed from one person to another as a free action 3: an unlimited number of free actions can be made as long as theres nothing saying you cant and a few real-world physics rules as well. it starts like this get a big ring of commoners (depending on if you can perform the same free action more than once, anywhere from 3-who knows) give one of them a quarterstaff. have that commoner pass it from one to the next as a free action. keep repeating this. its moving 5' per pass... so after 5 passes, its moved 25' in under 6 seconds. after 50000 passes... pretty soon the quarterstaff begins to approach the speed of light, in which case you just let go. damage is calculated as Energy = Mass * the square of the speed of light. a quarterstaff should have enough energy to equal a 25 kiloton atom bomb.
WolfHati 01-02-07, 04:57 AM	That doesn't work. A commoner strength 10 can only support 100 lbs, equivalent to 453 newtons of force. Since the circumference of this circle would be 5.0 ft. per cmmoner, the radius would be 5/(2*pi) ft. per commoner. which would be 0.24 meters per commoner. Now the force required to keep an object travelling in a circle is mass * velocity^2 / radius. Given the mass of a staff as 4.0 lbs or 1.8 kg, and solving for velocity gives us that the maximum velocity, discounting relativistic effects, would be 7.7 m/s or roughly 25 f/s times the square root of the number of commoners employed. Obviously, to gain velocities approaching that of the speed of light you would have to have a lot of commoners. You may be able to abuse the rules, but not the laws of physics.
Kevtar 01-02-07, 11:47 AM	That doesn't work. A commoner strength 10 can only support 100 lbs, equivalent to 453 newtons of force. Since the circumference of this circle would be 5.0 ft. per cmmoner, the radius would be 5/(2*pi) ft. per commoner. which would be 0.24 meters per commoner. Now the force required to keep an object travelling in a circle is mass * velocity^2 / radius. Given the mass of a staff as 4.0 lbs or 1.8 kg, and solving for velocity gives us that the maximum velocity, discounting relativistic effects, would be 7.7 m/s or roughly 25 f/s times the square root of the number of commoners employed. Obviously, to gain velocities approaching that of the speed of light you would have to have a lot of commoners. You may be able to abuse the rules, but not the laws of physics. Now THAT is an impressive post. By the way, where are the rules for calculating damage by weight?
Ocalus 01-02-07, 12:17 PM	it works on abusing a few rules. 1: a round is 6 seconds 2: an object can be passed from one person to another as a free action 3: an unlimited number of free actions can be made as long as theres nothing saying you cant Where does it say that passing an object is a free action? According to the SRD, which is all I have access to at work, dropping an item is a free action but it says nothing about passing one. There is always something that says you can't, and that something is called the DM. It may be a free action under the rules to pass the staff (is it just me or does that sound like a dirty metaphor?) but it still takes some time to do. A DM would likely limit the staff to being passed no more than 6 to 12 times in a round. The staff scenario is, as you say, an abuse of the rules. All it really does is highlight the fact that the rules cannot cover every single situation or event and thus illustrates why DMs are a necessary part of the game.
Aggrenox 01-02-07, 12:19 PM	*Aggrenox gains 1 point of intellegence* Dude. Wow. Your better than a bard.
OravennasBrother 01-02-07, 12:38 PM	This is why people should not try to mix physics with D&D in attempts to "find a loophole" - either it will work within D&D rules and be too silly for use, or it won't. In either case the physics, if examined closely generally eiher prevents the claim from working or it is a trivial abuse (you could drown any living opponent regardless of level as long as a few conditions were met)
bene0019 01-02-07, 03:47 PM	1: I think there is a max damage for falling objects (teminal velocity and all that) I think it is determined by a maximim number of incriments. but for most objects the max damage is 20d6. Which is kind of silly since you take 1d6 damage for every 10' and the maximum number of feet you can fall in a given round is 320' (160' the first round and 320' for rounds after that). Logically you'd assume you'd then take a max of 32d6 from falling.
vardock 01-02-07, 04:19 PM	Which is kind of silly since you take 1d6 damage for every 10' and the maximum number of feet you can fall in a given round is 320' (160' the first round and 320' for rounds after that). Logically you'd assume you'd then take a max of 32d6 from falling. I think the 20d6 is the most you can take from falling too. as for the staff thing and the formula posted to disprove it. this proves that there are stereotypical nerds out there playing D&D.
BlaineTog 01-02-07, 04:33 PM	it works on abusing a few rules. 1: a round is 6 seconds 2: an object can be passed from one person to another as a free action 3: an unlimited number of free actions can be made as long as theres nothing saying you cantAh, the ol' "line of commoners readying actions" bit. My favorite use for this is destroying all the trees in the world: set up a line for commoners such that each is 5 feet away from the next one, and each line weaves in and out of each forest in the world. Be a lithe halfling, or have yourself polymorphed into one. Have all the commoners ready actions to pass you from one to the next. As you go past the forests, make craft checks to turn all the trees into quarterstaffs (because the quarterstaff costs 0 sp, the amount of time to create it is infinitelly small, so you can make as many of them as you want in however much time you have, as long as you have the resources nearbye). Poof. In one round, all the trees in the world have been turned into quarterstaves. Horribly difficult to pull off, but really impressive if you do. Generally, though, I restrict myself to blowing trees up one at a time, when my character's bored. "I walk over to the tree and turn into into quarterstaves." "Uh, ok. The kobold sees this and freaks out. +2 to Intimidate." as for the staff thing and the formula posted to disprove it. this proves that there are stereotypical nerds out there playing D&D.Because this clearly needed verification.
Behaigo 01-02-07, 04:38 PM	it works on abusing a few rules. 1: a round is 6 seconds 2: an object can be passed from one person to another as a free action 3: an unlimited number of free actions can be made as long as theres nothing saying you cant and a few real-world physics rules as well. it starts like this get a big ring of commoners (depending on if you can perform the same free action more than once, anywhere from 3-who knows) give one of them a quarterstaff. have that commoner pass it from one to the next as a free action. keep repeating this. its moving 5' per pass... so after 5 passes, its moved 25' in under 6 seconds. after 50000 passes... pretty soon the quarterstaff begins to approach the speed of light, in which case you just let go. damage is calculated as Energy = Mass * the square of the speed of light. a quarterstaff should have enough energy to equal a 25 kiloton atom bomb. Commoner 1 passes the quarterstaff to commoner 2 as a free action. Commoner 1 has nothing better to do than wait for him to get the quarterstaff back and ends his turn. Commoner 2 passes the quarterstaff to commoner 3 as a free action and ends his turn. You can only take a free action during your turn, and passing a weapon is not an imediate action, thus your theory is false. Also, if done in combat, you would have to wait at least one round for everyone to delay their actions so they are in the correct initiative, giving the enemy time to kill at least one of them ending the process. If not applied in combat it likewise doesn't work as turns are only taken in a combat situation.
BlaineTog 01-02-07, 04:41 PM	If not applied in combat it likewise doesn't work as turns are only taken in a combat situation.Any situation using this, however, is ipso facto a "combat situation," or at least enough of one to use rounds (the Assasin's Death Attack, for example, would work "out of combat"). The issue would be whether or not the enemy is aware of the threat. Maybe you use this to blow up a castle.
General_Ridley 01-02-07, 05:43 PM	Which is kind of silly since you take 1d6 damage for every 10' and the maximum number of feet you can fall in a given round is 320' (160' the first round and 320' for rounds after that). Logically you'd assume you'd then take a max of 32d6 from falling. there's this thing called termina velocity (which, for the average sized man works out to kick in at after falling 187 feet). falling 320 ft. does the same amount of damage as falling 200. Since 180 ft. doesn't encompass the totality of 187, they added another couple increments to compensate for the fact that some people are a bit more massive. And, falling damage by size would be harder to implement than a flat rule.
vardock 01-03-07, 01:30 PM	ok the craft quarter staff thing does not work. here are the reasons. 1: trees are not raw materals untill they are cut down and made into logs. 2: craft checks have 2 different durations, weekly and Daily. so the soonest you can make a quarter staff in a day.
obrysii 01-03-07, 01:48 PM	From my understanding, outside of the damage recieved by the thing the object lands on (which is calculated at 2d6 per 250 pounds, iirc), nonmagical damage is capped at 20d6.
Kevtar 01-04-07, 08:36 AM	From my understanding, outside of the damage recieved by the thing the object lands on (which is calculated at 2d6 per 250 pounds, iirc), nonmagical damage is capped at 20d6. I think the DMG has damage from weight as 1d6/20 lb. capped at a max of 20d6/400 lb. My sons and I were fighting the colossal red dragon and I had my bard summon a Baleen Whale at 200 ft. above the dragon. When the whale impacted on the dragon it did 20d6 + 20d6 damage. I was kinda bummed because a REAL Baleen Whale weighs something like 100,000 - 160,000 lb. - but, then again, D&D is just an abstraction of reality. Not quite sure just how "legal" this was - but the DM liked the idea so that was that.
Kresalak 01-04-07, 09:55 AM	It's not legal, since Conjuration spells need a surface to support what they summon. Also, there is no cap on damage dealt by weight.
runestar 01-04-07, 10:13 AM	It's like how you can command an allip to drain a tarrasque's wis all the way to 0, and the tarrasque cannot do anything...:cool:
Kevtar 01-04-07, 11:54 AM	It's not legal, since Conjuration spells need a surface to support what they summon. Oh... really? :embarrass I've never seen that, but to be honest, I rarely use conjuration, so I've never fussed to much about it. Where is that written so I can look it up? Nevermind... found it :)
TheMysteriousWanderer 01-04-07, 12:13 PM	Quote: Originally Posted by bene0019 View Post Which is kind of silly since you take 1d6 damage for every 10' and the maximum number of feet you can fall in a given round is 320' (160' the first round and 320' for rounds after that). Logically you'd assume you'd then take a max of 32d6 from falling. there's this thing called termina velocity (which, for the average sized man works out to kick in at after falling 187 feet). falling 320 ft. does the same amount of damage as falling 200. Since 180 ft. doesn't encompass the totality of 187, they added another couple increments to compensate for the fact that some people are a bit more massive. And, falling damage by size would be harder to implement than a flat rule. The whole dmg from falling system of D&D is rediculuos crap, we changed it. Because otherwise our high level barbarian could jump from any height, then shrug the average dmg from 20D6 (60pts) off and walk away. Likewise, the fortitude save for massive dmg is redundant for a high level warrior. (15? C'mon....) maybe only on a natural 1... only a 5% chance to die everytime you jump down the grand canyon??? That just kills my sense of realism. A man jumping of a plane without a parachute and surviving it every time... I as a DM will just declare the character dead if he falls more then * feet...
obrysii 01-04-07, 12:18 PM	I think the DMG has damage from weight as 1d6/20 lb. capped at a max of 20d6/400 lb. Nope: Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen. For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage). So it adds +20d6 damage if it falls a certain amount of distance (20ft for 200+ pound object). My sons and I were fighting the colossal red dragon and I had my bard summon a Baleen Whale at 200 ft. above the dragon. When the whale impacted on the dragon it did 20d6 + 20d6 damage. I was kinda bummed because a REAL Baleen Whale weighs something like 100,000 - 160,000 lb. - but, then again, D&D is just an abstraction of reality. Not quite sure just how "legal" this was - but the DM liked the idea so that was that. While not legal, the baleen whale would TAKE 20d6 damage, and DEAL 20d6+500d6 damage (assuming a 100,000 pound whale). A stategy for a dragon, or any other suitably large monster, that has run out of other options is to allow itself to fall--a Great Gold Wyrm weighs 1,200,000 pounds, and a 20ft fall would deal 6020d6 damage, or an average of 21,070 damage.