Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sledgerosaur 01-16-07, 12:17 PM	what really annoys me is some of the skills and thier respective ability scores. let me elaborate. wisdom going with listen is good, but getting BETTER at listening and spotting the older you get? as demonstrated in oots 215-23 (around that area) and intimidate. a HILL GIANT, a massive beast that could tear 99% of commoners limb from limb, will likely get low intimidate scores because it gets a low cha score. IM) i would be a lot more intimidated by a hill giant than a bard. in mygame we are allowed to add half of our strength modifier to our intimidate checks. what skills get YOU angry and why?
Behaigo 01-16-07, 12:25 PM	How concentration is based on your Con score. I know a lot of tough people that couldn't focus on something to save their lives. I think it should be based on your Wis to demenstrate your willpower to overcome pain and stay focused.
Salla 01-16-07, 01:10 PM	and intimidate. a HILL GIANT, a massive beast that could tear 99% of commoners limb from limb, will likely get low intimidate scores because it gets a low cha score. IM) i would be a lot more intimidated by a hill giant than a bard. in mygame we are allowed to add half of our strength modifier to our intimidate checks. Note the size modifiers under Intimidate. The Hill Giant does juuuuust fine. :)
Armorlord 01-16-07, 01:39 PM	and intimidate. a HILL GIANT, a massive beast that could tear 99% of commoners limb from limb, will likely get low intimidate scores because it gets a low cha score. IM) i would be a lot more intimidated by a hill giant than a bard. in mygame we are allowed to add half of our strength modifier to our intimidate checks. This is where our friend the circumstance modifier comes in, some situations just warrant some modifiers. A hill giant threatening a weak commoner with physical violence is sure to get a bonus, but take that same hill giant threatening a guy with the same ability scores with a reprimand from the king if he's not allowed into the city will more likely just call for more guards than let him in on the same dice roll. Then again, in our group we make heavy use of circumstance modifiers when using the 'social' skills, and often opposed rolls depending on the character.
WhiteRaven810 01-16-07, 01:42 PM	Also, some where, some place, maybe Miniatures Handbook, there is a feat that lets you add your Strength into your Intimidate check instead of or in addition to your Charisma modifier.
IrishRover 01-16-07, 05:02 PM	To me, the skill is knowlege of how to use what you have to best advantage--so Charisma is the right skill for Intimidate. However, what you have is also critical. That hill giant has strength and size--so he's going to frighten that peasant. That doesn't mean he'll get what he wants--the commoner might well just bolt rather than comply when the big nasty says "Tell where soldiers are! NOW!" A giant that knows how to imtimidate might not smash a hut and make demands--he might just glower and project an impression of violence ready to be unleashed. Also, a bard with many ranks of intimidate can only intimidate someone if he's got the backing to follow through--or more important, the person or thing he's intimidating believes he does. (Add a bluff check) Social skills don't function in a vacuum--a guard won't easily be intimidated by a single warrior-but if he believes that warrior is in the pay of Shaktari, Marilith Queen, then he might be.
Anaxander 01-17-07, 08:09 AM	How concentration is based on your Con score. I know a lot of tough people that couldn't focus on something to save their lives. I think it should be based on your Wis to demenstrate your willpower to overcome pain and stay focused. Or Charisma since that is the 'offensive' willpower stat and wisdom the 'defensive'. Two problematic stats imo: * Dexterity: which covers in fact both dexterity (hand-eye coordination) and agility (balance, touch-AC), things which differ like strength to constitution. * Wisdom: which covers perception (keen senses: spot, listen), insight (sense motive), willpower (Will save) and experience (profession).
Novacat 01-17-07, 09:49 AM	OMG what? There are flaws in the game?!?! Say it ain't so!
Einvaldurinn_mikli 01-17-07, 01:09 PM	It ain't so.
Mister_Sinister 01-17-07, 02:19 PM	The Craft skill... Dear god. I've basically given up on it, considering that anyone with half a brain left would get the party wizard/a hireling just cast fabricate and be done with it. The way Craft works makes no sense, at all. Craft can be used untrained, so, according to it, a 1st level commoner with 10 Int can crank out 20 iron pots every week?! Yes, according to the rules, because the said commoner just takes 10, giving a 'craft total' of 100sp, which is the cost of 20 iron pots. By the same token, a two-handed weapon made of thinaun has a crafting time of NEARLY TWO DECADES?! Again, perfectly 'reasonable', as thinaun cranks the price of a weapon by 20,000gp if the weapon is two-handed. Thus, for someone to craft a thinaun greatsword, assuming they can take 10 to meet the DC (the results of failed checks would only make this longer, and possibly totally impossible), gets a 'craft total' of 225 silver pieces a week. Said greatsword costs 20,050gp, which is 200,500sp. This means you need 892 weeks to finish it, which is about 17 years. I mean, what gives?!
darth_borehd 01-17-07, 08:10 PM	what really annoys me is some of the skills and thier respective ability scores. let me elaborate. wisdom going with listen is good, but getting BETTER at listening and spotting the older you get? as demonstrated in oots 215-23 (around that area) and intimidate. a HILL GIANT, a massive beast that could tear 99% of commoners limb from limb, will likely get low intimidate scores because it gets a low cha score. IM) i would be a lot more intimidated by a hill giant than a bard. in mygame we are allowed to add half of our strength modifier to our intimidate checks. what skills get YOU angry and why? You have it all wrong. Intimidate != Frightened Initimidation is the art of manipulating somebody through fear. A big scary Hill Giant may make people flee at the site of him, but he isn't going to get them to divulge information or cooperate in any way. A bard who knows what scares people and can play on their fears like a puppet master pulls on strings is the true initimidation expert.
Leo 01-18-07, 08:31 AM	Or Charisma since that is the 'offensive' willpower stat and wisdom the 'defensive'. Two problematic stats imo: * Dexterity: which covers in fact both dexterity (hand-eye coordination) and agility (balance, touch-AC), things which differ like strength to constitution. * Wisdom: which covers perception (keen senses: spot, listen), insight (sense motive), willpower (Will save) and experience (profession). Ok, then we would have something like a two dozen ability scores, wich would make the game even more complicated. No, thank you very much
Behaigo 01-18-07, 09:20 AM	Ok, then we would have something like a two dozen ability scores, wich would make the game even more complicated. No, thank you very much Or we could use the Tri-Stat system (Body, Mind, Soul) and have too little controll. :P
Anaxander 01-18-07, 12:16 PM	Ok, then we would have something like a two dozen ability scores, wich would make the game even more complicated. No, thank you very much I wasn't implying that we should have additional stats for insight, agility, perception, etc, but that some stats, like wisdom, cover much more different aspects of a character than others, like strength. This leads to the annoying fact that aging (increased wisdom) leads to better vision and hearing...
Behaigo 01-18-07, 02:41 PM	I always thought it would make sense to have a perception stat to cover things like listen and spot, but that would throw off the balance of 3 physical and 3 mental stats. Maybe throw in agility? 8 stats FTL!
Leo 01-18-07, 04:56 PM	I wasn't implying that we should have additional stats for insight, agility, perception, etc, but that some stats, like wisdom, cover much more different aspects of a character than others, like strength. This leads to the annoying fact that aging (increased wisdom) leads to better vision and hearing... Well, you know how old mans say how the youth never listen to anything:P
Tiberia 01-18-07, 06:18 PM	You have it all wrong. Intimidate != Frightened Initimidation is the art of manipulating somebody through fear. A big scary Hill Giant may make people flee at the site of him, but he isn't going to get them to divulge information or cooperate in any way. A bard who knows what scares people and can play on their fears like a puppet master pulls on strings is the true initimidation expert. Threat means obey or I'll do something nasty, people expect Hill Giants to do the nasty whether they obey or not. Hill Giant: Tell me where the Army is or I will rip you limb from limb. Peasant #1: (screams and runs away) Peasant #2: 5 miles East Hill Giant: (rips Peasant #2 limb from limb) By Darwinian Evolution, surviving Peasants descend from the ones who ran away. Bard: Tell me where the Army is or I will tell your wife.... DEX: a Rogue with a broken leg keeps their bonus with hand-work and suffers a penalty with leg-work; broken arm - vice versa.
Firestar27 01-18-07, 09:47 PM	The intimidate is right here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0101.html Notice how when Roy (the fighter) tries to intimidate the goblin, the goblin doesn't really get scared and does not care about Roy. When Elan (the bard) on the other hand, threatens the goblin, he knows how to hit it where it hurts.
calvinNhobbes 01-18-07, 09:52 PM	If you really hate the idea that your senses improve with age, just add extra penalties to spot and listen at each age category (say a -2 at each category). There simple fix.