24 hours in the desert, how much water do you really need? [Archive] - Wizards Community

24 hours in the desert, how much water do you really need? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arravis
05-04-06, 07:15 PM I'm looking through Sandstorm and it gives different amounts of water needed for traveling in hot conditions. In severe heat (110-140 degrees) a medium humanoid needs 3 gallons of water per day. In a hot climate (91-110 degrees) they need two gallons of water, and in warm (90 degrees or lower) they only need one gallon of water per day. The part that has me confused is that in the desert, the temperature changes dramatically throughout the day and night. At it's hottest point it may be 130 degrees and at it's coolest at night it may be 55 degrees. So what do I do to figure out water usage on a long trip. What if the characters sleep during the day, is the water usage based solely on their "active" time and temperature? Then there is the additional dehydration times Con checks, the same issue crops up on those. Thanks guys, I hope someone might be able to offer some guidance on this, thanks!
purpledragon
05-04-06, 07:22 PM That's the way that I would play it. However, when I was in the army stationed in Panama, they said two gallons a day.
Seeker95
05-04-06, 08:02 PM You've got it down just fine. Burying yourself in the sand during the day, and traveling at night would reduce your water intake needs. A gallon a day is subsistence-level hydration in extremely hot climes. This would indicate that perhaps one-third the listed amounts is survival, but would probably result in being fatigued most of the time.
celtredleg
05-04-06, 08:42 PM Yes travel at night is one of the oldest ways there is to conserve water in the hot lands. The problem is seeing where you are going. You think it all looks alike in the day, it is much worse at night.

The radical temp changes is also hard on your body, but not sure is you have rules for that.
Chrono Nexus
05-04-06, 09:57 PM How much water do you need? none
Play a warforged.
Or a cleric.
Or a warforged cleric.
Seeker95
05-04-06, 10:12 PM How much water do you need? none
Play a [...] cleric.Still need water. Just don't need to bring it with you ahead of time. :P
Molitor
05-04-06, 11:04 PM I will second the comment on 2 gallons. I live in Arizona and I tell you 2 gallons is about the perfect ammount.
Board_Rider
05-04-06, 11:14 PM While in the Army I did desert training at Ft. Irwin, California. While "hydrate, hydrate, hydrate" was enforced we usually drank closer to 3-5 (assume 1 gallon) quarts of water than 2 gallons per day. Usually, heavy activity was followed by drinking water. During the rest of the time, you sipped.

I think D&D assumes that activity is constantly occuring.
Azezel
05-05-06, 09:19 AM When I was living in Saudi Arabia - it was commonly accepted that one should keep seven litres of water in the car. This was supposed to be the ideal compromise between what you could actually carry on your back, and what you would need if you broke down and had to walk to civilisation.

Seven litres is just under two American gallons and weighs about 15lb.
Wabbit
05-05-06, 09:30 AM From my experiences in Iraq/ Kuwait (Kuwait was MUCH hotter), the hottest days would require about that much water, or more, when you are working and traveling during the day. Working mostly nights, you are still close to that amount of water because it is hard to sleep in extreme heat during the day, you sweat like a politician in court, and you become dehydrated if you don't keep drinking, so that at night you still have to catch back up.
Arravis
05-05-06, 10:13 AM Thanks for all the responses, but I think perhaps I may have not been very clear in what I need. I'm not disputing the amounts given by Sandstorm, I'm trying to figure out what amounts pertain to me. My game world is similar to that of Athas (Dark Sun), but without magic or psionics. In the morning the temperature ranges from f 90–110º, getting to 111–125º at noon, then to 116–140º in the early afternoon, lowering to 110º in late afternoon then going as low as 65º at night. As you can see, it goes through a pretty large range of temperature. So when the party chooses to travel makes a dramatic difference. My question is which temperature do I use to calculate water use?

Are the numbers in Sandstorm ment to represent the highest or the average temperature in a 24 hour period? Thanks guys.
Azezel
05-05-06, 11:10 AM The highest - I beleive. In general though, it's not how much water one needs that is crucial - it's how much one has. So it's the carrying capacity of your character that should determine how much water he drinks, rather than a discrete formlula. Carry as much water as you can and drink all of it.
Thelandrach
05-05-06, 11:51 AM Bah. It's a fantasy. Water is scarce, so you drink less.
LCD2YOU
05-05-06, 12:06 PM You need a lot of water in the desert. Even the numbers from poeple who were in the modern deserts still have access to modern facilities and modern textiles.

If you're in heavy, non-modern armor, you're going to be sweating like a pig. In any sort of enclosed armor, like just about everything in DnD, it will be your own personal sauna. Even when sweating inside such a heat trap, the body's own cooling system will fail. Your core body temp will skyrocket and the person quickly becomes completely disoriented and may lose awarness of their impending doom.

So, while 3 gallons of water a day may sound like a lot in the desert, one must remember the difference between modern breathable fibers, being able to get into a car or other building with A/C, even for short amounts of time and the semi-dark ages style armor of the DnD character. Also, don't forget about combat and wounds. Even a slight loss of blood (body fluid which is what 80-90% water?) will have even more repercussions.

They may cut down on their water intake, IMHO, if they travel at night, stay in the shade during the day when they "try to sleep", and wear garb like the "Lawrence of Arabia". Oh yeah, no combat.

In some cases, 3 or 4 gallons may not be enough. Remember you can live for at least 2 weeks without food. You can only live 3 or 4 days without water. In the desert, you can actually die in a day without water.
The Colonel
05-06-06, 10:12 AM Generally navigation is easier by night in the desert (or was until GPS came out) because you could generally rely on star sightings rather than dick about with a prismatic compass - or go out to find the mong who was following the magnetic compass that was probably pointing to his landrover's engine block...
caeruleus
05-06-06, 03:03 PM Thanks for all the responses, but I think perhaps I may have not been very clear in what I need. I'm not disputing the amounts given by Sandstorm, I'm trying to figure out what amounts pertain to me. My game world is similar to that of Athas (Dark Sun), but without magic or psionics. In the morning the temperature ranges from f 90–110º, getting to 111–125º at noon, then to 116–140º in the early afternoon, lowering to 110º in late afternoon then going as low as 65º at night. As you can see, it goes through a pretty large range of temperature. So when the party chooses to travel makes a dramatic difference. My question is which temperature do I use to calculate water use?

Are the numbers in Sandstorm ment to represent the highest or the average temperature in a 24 hour period? Thanks guys.

I doubt they had this question in mind at all. To keep it simple, just go by the temperature at which they're active for the most part.
Bob Loblaw
05-07-06, 01:59 AM Board_Rider, when were you at Irwin? I was there from 89-93.

As for the amount to drink, I would say that the amount is based on when the party is most active. It is the easiest and most logical way to calculate it. I would also use the highest amounts if they managed to end up in multiple tamperature ranges.
Pyritefoolsgold
05-07-06, 03:00 AM Divide all the amounts by 24, and call that the amount needed hourly. Then say you only need half that when resting. With your system that leads to something like this:
During the morning, (90–110º) the party finishes the last miles they'll travel, drinking a third of a gallon each during the four hours of morning, and set camp. They partially bury themselves in sand, set up their canteens, and rest through the hot part of the day. They drink three quarter gallons over six hours, then another eighth over two evening hours. As the temperature falls off, they get up, and start walking again, drinking maybe another third of a gallon during the night. This adds up to 1.5 gallons per day. Of course, this changes dramatically if they are forced to move during the daylight hours. And travelling at night has it's own problems, with monsters and other things getting the drop on you, and losing your way as distant landmarks become invisible.
Board_Rider
05-07-06, 01:36 PM Board_Rider, when were you at Irwin? I was there from 89-93.
Ahh man your an "old timer" compared to me. I was at Irwin in October (September?) 97. I was with C Co. 2/14INF., 10th Mountain Division.

I actually kind of miss the tent city and sweating through my BDU's only to freeze when the sun went down.
celtredleg
05-07-06, 09:04 PM Board_Rider, when were you at Irwin? I was there from 89-93.

As for the amount to drink, I would say that the amount is based on when the party is most active. It is the easiest and most logical way to calculate it. I would also use the highest amounts if they managed to end up in multiple tamperature ranges.

Bob, through an odd quirk I never Made it to Irwin until 97, then I went every other year until I retired.

I wopuld say you definately are better off drinking to much instead of not enough.
Bob Loblaw
05-08-06, 01:25 AM So you guys just visited. I was OPFOR for four years. I wish I could go back sometime.

And so people know, you can drink too much water. It will deplete your sodium levels. I wouldn't introduce this rule since most of the food the party would be carrying will probably have enough salt in it to keep it from spoiling.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arravis 05-04-06, 07:15 PM	I'm looking through Sandstorm and it gives different amounts of water needed for traveling in hot conditions. In severe heat (110-140 degrees) a medium humanoid needs 3 gallons of water per day. In a hot climate (91-110 degrees) they need two gallons of water, and in warm (90 degrees or lower) they only need one gallon of water per day. The part that has me confused is that in the desert, the temperature changes dramatically throughout the day and night. At it's hottest point it may be 130 degrees and at it's coolest at night it may be 55 degrees. So what do I do to figure out water usage on a long trip. What if the characters sleep during the day, is the water usage based solely on their "active" time and temperature? Then there is the additional dehydration times Con checks, the same issue crops up on those. Thanks guys, I hope someone might be able to offer some guidance on this, thanks!
purpledragon 05-04-06, 07:22 PM	That's the way that I would play it. However, when I was in the army stationed in Panama, they said two gallons a day.
Seeker95 05-04-06, 08:02 PM	You've got it down just fine. Burying yourself in the sand during the day, and traveling at night would reduce your water intake needs. A gallon a day is subsistence-level hydration in extremely hot climes. This would indicate that perhaps one-third the listed amounts is survival, but would probably result in being fatigued most of the time.
celtredleg 05-04-06, 08:42 PM	Yes travel at night is one of the oldest ways there is to conserve water in the hot lands. The problem is seeing where you are going. You think it all looks alike in the day, it is much worse at night. The radical temp changes is also hard on your body, but not sure is you have rules for that.
Chrono Nexus 05-04-06, 09:57 PM	How much water do you need? none Play a warforged. Or a cleric. Or a warforged cleric.
Seeker95 05-04-06, 10:12 PM	How much water do you need? none Play a [...] cleric.Still need water. Just don't need to bring it with you ahead of time. :P
Molitor 05-04-06, 11:04 PM	I will second the comment on 2 gallons. I live in Arizona and I tell you 2 gallons is about the perfect ammount.
Board_Rider 05-04-06, 11:14 PM	While in the Army I did desert training at Ft. Irwin, California. While "hydrate, hydrate, hydrate" was enforced we usually drank closer to 3-5 (assume 1 gallon) quarts of water than 2 gallons per day. Usually, heavy activity was followed by drinking water. During the rest of the time, you sipped. I think D&D assumes that activity is constantly occuring.
Azezel 05-05-06, 09:19 AM	When I was living in Saudi Arabia - it was commonly accepted that one should keep seven litres of water in the car. This was supposed to be the ideal compromise between what you could actually carry on your back, and what you would need if you broke down and had to walk to civilisation. Seven litres is just under two American gallons and weighs about 15lb.
Wabbit 05-05-06, 09:30 AM	From my experiences in Iraq/ Kuwait (Kuwait was MUCH hotter), the hottest days would require about that much water, or more, when you are working and traveling during the day. Working mostly nights, you are still close to that amount of water because it is hard to sleep in extreme heat during the day, you sweat like a politician in court, and you become dehydrated if you don't keep drinking, so that at night you still have to catch back up.
Arravis 05-05-06, 10:13 AM	Thanks for all the responses, but I think perhaps I may have not been very clear in what I need. I'm not disputing the amounts given by Sandstorm, I'm trying to figure out what amounts pertain to me. My game world is similar to that of Athas (Dark Sun), but without magic or psionics. In the morning the temperature ranges from f 90–110º, getting to 111–125º at noon, then to 116–140º in the early afternoon, lowering to 110º in late afternoon then going as low as 65º at night. As you can see, it goes through a pretty large range of temperature. So when the party chooses to travel makes a dramatic difference. My question is which temperature do I use to calculate water use? Are the numbers in Sandstorm ment to represent the highest or the average temperature in a 24 hour period? Thanks guys.
Azezel 05-05-06, 11:10 AM	The highest - I beleive. In general though, it's not how much water one needs that is crucial - it's how much one has. So it's the carrying capacity of your character that should determine how much water he drinks, rather than a discrete formlula. Carry as much water as you can and drink all of it.
Thelandrach 05-05-06, 11:51 AM	Bah. It's a fantasy. Water is scarce, so you drink less.
LCD2YOU 05-05-06, 12:06 PM	You need a lot of water in the desert. Even the numbers from poeple who were in the modern deserts still have access to modern facilities and modern textiles. If you're in heavy, non-modern armor, you're going to be sweating like a pig. In any sort of enclosed armor, like just about everything in DnD, it will be your own personal sauna. Even when sweating inside such a heat trap, the body's own cooling system will fail. Your core body temp will skyrocket and the person quickly becomes completely disoriented and may lose awarness of their impending doom. So, while 3 gallons of water a day may sound like a lot in the desert, one must remember the difference between modern breathable fibers, being able to get into a car or other building with A/C, even for short amounts of time and the semi-dark ages style armor of the DnD character. Also, don't forget about combat and wounds. Even a slight loss of blood (body fluid which is what 80-90% water?) will have even more repercussions. They may cut down on their water intake, IMHO, if they travel at night, stay in the shade during the day when they "try to sleep", and wear garb like the "Lawrence of Arabia". Oh yeah, no combat. In some cases, 3 or 4 gallons may not be enough. Remember you can live for at least 2 weeks without food. You can only live 3 or 4 days without water. In the desert, you can actually die in a day without water.
The Colonel 05-06-06, 10:12 AM	Generally navigation is easier by night in the desert (or was until GPS came out) because you could generally rely on star sightings rather than dick about with a prismatic compass - or go out to find the mong who was following the magnetic compass that was probably pointing to his landrover's engine block...
caeruleus 05-06-06, 03:03 PM	Thanks for all the responses, but I think perhaps I may have not been very clear in what I need. I'm not disputing the amounts given by Sandstorm, I'm trying to figure out what amounts pertain to me. My game world is similar to that of Athas (Dark Sun), but without magic or psionics. In the morning the temperature ranges from f 90–110º, getting to 111–125º at noon, then to 116–140º in the early afternoon, lowering to 110º in late afternoon then going as low as 65º at night. As you can see, it goes through a pretty large range of temperature. So when the party chooses to travel makes a dramatic difference. My question is which temperature do I use to calculate water use? Are the numbers in Sandstorm ment to represent the highest or the average temperature in a 24 hour period? Thanks guys. I doubt they had this question in mind at all. To keep it simple, just go by the temperature at which they're active for the most part.
Bob Loblaw 05-07-06, 01:59 AM	Board_Rider, when were you at Irwin? I was there from 89-93. As for the amount to drink, I would say that the amount is based on when the party is most active. It is the easiest and most logical way to calculate it. I would also use the highest amounts if they managed to end up in multiple tamperature ranges.
Pyritefoolsgold 05-07-06, 03:00 AM	Divide all the amounts by 24, and call that the amount needed hourly. Then say you only need half that when resting. With your system that leads to something like this: During the morning, (90–110º) the party finishes the last miles they'll travel, drinking a third of a gallon each during the four hours of morning, and set camp. They partially bury themselves in sand, set up their canteens, and rest through the hot part of the day. They drink three quarter gallons over six hours, then another eighth over two evening hours. As the temperature falls off, they get up, and start walking again, drinking maybe another third of a gallon during the night. This adds up to 1.5 gallons per day. Of course, this changes dramatically if they are forced to move during the daylight hours. And travelling at night has it's own problems, with monsters and other things getting the drop on you, and losing your way as distant landmarks become invisible.
Board_Rider 05-07-06, 01:36 PM	Board_Rider, when were you at Irwin? I was there from 89-93. Ahh man your an "old timer" compared to me. I was at Irwin in October (September?) 97. I was with C Co. 2/14INF., 10th Mountain Division. I actually kind of miss the tent city and sweating through my BDU's only to freeze when the sun went down.
celtredleg 05-07-06, 09:04 PM	Board_Rider, when were you at Irwin? I was there from 89-93. As for the amount to drink, I would say that the amount is based on when the party is most active. It is the easiest and most logical way to calculate it. I would also use the highest amounts if they managed to end up in multiple tamperature ranges. Bob, through an odd quirk I never Made it to Irwin until 97, then I went every other year until I retired. I wopuld say you definately are better off drinking to much instead of not enough.
Bob Loblaw 05-08-06, 01:25 AM	So you guys just visited. I was OPFOR for four years. I wish I could go back sometime. And so people know, you can drink too much water. It will deplete your sodium levels. I wouldn't introduce this rule since most of the food the party would be carrying will probably have enough salt in it to keep it from spoiling.