Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talkbot 03-09-08, 05:11 AM	I recently started playing D&D (A week ago). I am thinking of buying the core books for 3.5 but someone told me not to because 4.0 coming out soon. What do you think? Also when does 4th edition come out because I may need the books before then?
Azezel 03-09-08, 05:37 AM	4e comes out in may. My advice is to buy the 3.5 books. Every indication we have shows that 4e is a remarkably inferior game. Subjective? Yes, but you asked for advice.
Talkbot 03-09-08, 05:49 AM	Remarkably Inferior? I'm rather new. How so?
Zavia 03-09-08, 06:00 AM	Its a hard decision. What i reccomend is just buy a 2nd hand PHB, and wait for 4th ed to come out b4 buying anything else.
Escef 03-09-08, 07:45 AM	Remarkably Inferior? I'm rather new. How so? He doesn't really know. We've gotten a few sneak peaks, but little more. He's being negatively reactionary. From what I've seen, 4e has a few things I like and I few I'm not sure on. But nothing I outright think is bad. Which isn't saying a lot, because I haven't seen much yet. Given that 4e will be the standard for some time to come, you're best off learning 4e. If you are going to play in a 3e/3.5 game, you're probably best off buying the books off of eBay, Amazon, or another online retailer. The bulk of the material can be found HERE (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html). It's missing a few key parts of the experience and monetary systems, as well as ability score generation methods. But that is information that is not open source.
Talkbot 03-09-08, 08:03 AM	Wheres a british website were I could buy some second hand core books?
Tisi 03-09-08, 11:01 AM	My advice is to borrow the core books of any and all of the different editions and thumb through them. Some people really enjoyed 2nd edition, others are in love with 3.5, and some still remain in 1st. There have been good and bad views on 4th edition, as you can tell from the above posts. I would read through as many versions as possible, wait for 4th edition (or read whatever I can get my grubby little hands on) and decide which version I like the best. Then I would obtain the core rules for said version. To answer your question: I think Amazon.com ships internationally. Some sellers on eBay ship internationally, as well.
pukunui 03-09-08, 06:59 PM	4e comes out in may.The first adventure, Keep on the Shadowfell, comes out in May. It comes complete with quick-start rules. However, the actual 4e core rulebooks don't come out until June. My advice is to wait and buy the 3.5 4e books. Every indication we have shows that 4e is a remarkably inferior superior game.Fixed. :P ;) Wheres a british website were I could buy some second hand core books? To answer your question: I think Amazon.com ships internationally. Some sellers on eBay ship internationally, as well. www.amazon.co.uk
ApollyonsChosen 03-09-08, 08:29 PM	3.5 is an awesome system with alot more supplemental and third party support than 4th ed will have for quite some time.Buy 3.5 it lets you do almost anything you want.4th edition is 3.5 where you can't do anything that irks the developers.Amazon has aweome deals on 3.5 stuff. I believe you can get a set of the core rulebooks in a slipcase set.As for fourth ed no one knows too much about it other than the fact that it has nineteen million less options than 3.5.
pukunui 03-09-08, 08:43 PM	Buy 3.5 it lets you do almost anything you want. 4th edition is 3.5 where you can't do anything that irks the developers.I'm not a developer, but I find the same things that irk them annoying, so frankly I'm glad they're making a new edition. But then, I'm clearly well within the target market for 4e, so I'm unreasonably biased. :P As for fourth ed no one knows too much about it other than the fact that it has nineteen million less options than 3.5.Actually, we know quite a lot about it, especially now that D&DXP has come and gone. I take it you don't go to ENWorld? Also, it's unfair to compare a new edition with an edition that has been out for almost a decade now. It would be better to compare the initial release of 4e to the initial release of 3e. I wouldn't be surprised if 4e actually offers players more options than 3e did when it first came out. Of course it can't offer as many options as 3.x can offer now, but it's totally unreasonable to expect it to do so. Unfortunately, we live in an era where instant gratification is the norm, with lots of people complaining when they don't get what they want when they want it. :rolleyes:
ApollyonsChosen 03-09-08, 11:02 PM	I am just a little apprehensive about the short life of 3.5,as well as some of the new marketing ploys fielded by Wizards. But as a product 3.5 is solid and fun to play.Many of the things that so many people complain about are really just character flaws of the people they game with,not the system they use.It will be years before 4th catches up with third as far as options for the player.Not trying to compare the two editions,just a cold hard fact. Also you won't find any established fourth edition groups for many months.Why wait till June to get started?Try 3.5 is my advice.Game now as opposed to game later....much later. I have been to ENworld and while they shed alot of light on the new edition there is still alot of unknowns.And alot of the knowns aren't exactly thrilling.I plan on buying the new edition,if only to run an alternate campaign with all the new goodies.I reserve judgement. Hating on the still current edition is old hat.Not current for much longer but i would still give it a shot.Look for mountains of cheap 3.5 stuff whereas anything 4th will cost a premium and come out in dribs and drabs.In June no less.And no barbarians or many of the other core classes available for at least a year.BOOO!
pukunui 03-10-08, 03:03 AM	I am just a little apprehensive about the short life of 3.5,as well as some of the new marketing ploys fielded by Wizards.Well, except that if you put 3.0 and 3.5 together, the 3rd edition overall has lasted for roughly the same amount of time as the previous editions did. But as a product 3.5 is solid and fun to play.I disagree but this isn't really the thread for it. It will be years before 4th catches up with third as far as options for the player.Not trying to compare the two editions,just a cold hard fact.You were comparing the two editions and in a rather snide way (by saying that 4e would have "nineteen million" fewer options than 3.5). Granted, the game overall will, at first, provide fewer options, but in certain areas (the fighter class, for instance), there will actually be more options. Also you won't find any established fourth edition groups for many months.Why wait till June to get started?Try 3.5 is my advice.Game now as opposed to game later....much later.Between the character sheets, the quick rules guide, and the rules appendix handed out at D&DXP, plus the snapshots of the monster stats used in the delves and pages from the PHB and MM that were on display, you can actually get a 4e game going right now. All of those things are available online for free right now. And no barbarians or many of the other core classes available for at least a year.BOOO!WotC has said that some classes will make their debut on the DDI before they come out in print, so you may not actually have to wait that long. Personally I don't mind that the barbarian's been left out. I think it's a dumb name for a class, for starters, and it can be relatively easily duplicated with a fighter ... I am a little bothered by the exclusion of the bard and druid, though. But I feel confident they'll turn up on DDI before the PHB2 comes out next year. Chris Perkins practically said as much at D&DXP. Let me just say this to the OP: If you can't wait until 4e comes out, don't bother to buy any 3.5 books. Just use the SRD. It's free. If you feel you really need a hard copy, see if your local library has one. That should be free as well.
Escef 03-10-08, 03:09 AM	I am just a little apprehensive about the short life of 3.5... Do you realize that in the amount of time 3.5 has been out Mutants & Masterminds has gone through two editions? Do you have any idea how many editions the average RPG goes through in that short amount of time? In the same amount of time as 3e/3.5's run there are RPGs that have gone through 3 editions and then went out of print entirely. Perspective, people.
Drizztrocks 03-10-08, 05:07 PM	Okay, here is your solution. Buy the D&D for Dummies and Dungeon Masters for Dummies. Both these books give you enough information to play the full game, with quick start chracters, adventures, rules and other such. That is what I did at first. And both books are only $19.99 in Philadelphia, but I don't know how much they'd be in Britian. Much less then the core books, though. Try going to AmazonUk.com:)
pukunui 03-10-08, 05:23 PM	And both books are only $19.99 in Philadelphia:ayyyy!: Philly ftw! What part do you live in? I'm from Huntingdon Valley. Try going to AmazonUk.com:)It's amazon.co.uk. I already gave him the link. Dunno if the OP's already tried it, though, since he hasn't posted recently.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-10-08, 06:34 PM	The original core 3, and the later added 4th core book - the Expanded Psionics Handbook, are all available, with some extra stuff, at the web site: linky ---> www.d20srd.org For balance issues, if you want to add 1 book, I'd recommend Complete Warrior. Spend yo' money. 4th Edition is coming soon enough, but you wanna play now.
Escef 03-11-08, 07:14 AM	The original core 3, and the later added 4th core book - the Expanded Psionics Handbook, are all available, with some extra stuff, at the web site: linky ---> www.d20srd.org The Expanded Psionic is NOT core. Yes, most of the material in it is in the SRD, but that does not make it core, it makes it Open Content. And once again, there is material in the books, some of it important for ongoing games, that is not found in the SRD. Just trying to avert any unintentional misunderstandings.
Zombie_Babies 03-11-08, 02:56 PM	Uh oh. I sense an argument brewing.......
Ganeldil 03-11-08, 03:41 PM	They are great books buy them if you can. It will take years for 4th edition to have the content 3.5 has and you don't have to move to 4th edition the day it comes out.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-12-08, 06:34 PM	The Expanded Psionic is NOT core. Nice, soft, fluffy, and polemic'ly titled: WTF is core? Because XPH is not in it, according to WotC. linky ---> http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=991423 But for some strange ~reason, some people seem to feel differently. I show up on post #51.
Kursk 03-12-08, 06:51 PM	Do you have any idea how many editions the average RPG goes through in that short amount of time? In the same amount of time as 3e/3.5's run there are RPGs that have gone through 3 editions and then went out of print entirely. Perspective, people. Yes, perspective as to why these other RPGs are far less popular than D&D...
Jaxgaret 03-12-08, 08:58 PM	Uh oh. I sense an argument brewing....... Yeah, me too. Batten the hatches.
Escef 03-13-08, 02:49 AM	Nice, soft, fluffy, and polemic'ly titled: WTF is core? Because XPH is not in it, according to WotC. linky ---> http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=991423 But for some strange ~reason, some people seem to feel differently. I show up on post #51. That's awesome, you direct me to a thread, tell me to track down a post on page 2, that links to yet another thread? What's next, a bloody scavenger hunt? I find it very odd that an optional rulebook gets to retroactively declare another rules expansion core. Still, I go by what the books say on their covers. Was XPH ever included in an official core bundle? Nope. If you want to consider it core, that's what you consider it. At best, the majority of the D&D world will consider it the bastard step-sibling of core.
Jaxgaret 03-13-08, 03:49 AM	That's awesome, you direct me to a thread, tell me to track down a post on page 2, that links to yet another thread? What's next, a bloody scavenger hunt? I find it very odd that an optional rulebook gets to retroactively declare another rules expansion core. Still, I go by what the books say on their covers. Was XPH ever included in an official core bundle? Nope. If you want to consider it core, that's what you consider it. At best, the majority of the D&D world will consider it the bastard step-sibling of core. Hoo boy, this is gonna be good! In b4 dm_golem's flamebaiting response
pres_man 03-13-08, 04:59 AM	From what I have seen from comments about the 4th edition, especially from those that participated in the D&D experience, it appears as if the two editions are fundamentally different games. The fluff may be similiar but the mechanics are very different apparently. With that in mind, why not end up getting both. 3.x is a very good game for those interested in a more complex system. 4th edition appears to be a (possibly) good game for those interested in a more streamlined system. It may be that the people you play with will want to play one type some of the time and the other type at other times.
Fenrir_Greyback 03-13-08, 08:27 AM	I can Tell you that I will not be buying 4th edition for a very long time. Maybe not ever. I don't like the races, I don't like the changes they've made to the classes (God forbid that they have touched my beloved rogues... I've merely seen the wizard and warlock) And judging by that, I'm probably not going to like the rules. It almost seems as if they are taking THE fundamental rule away. If you're new to the game, you may not have encountered it before but I'll fill you in. The rule is "What the DM says goes, no matter how stupid it is" And if you are taking that out, then I don't think it's real DnD. On top of all of this, I think there's probably going to be a lot of good deals on amazon and ebay for 3.5 in about may and june. I'm sure as hell not selling back my books (I've spent over $200) for lower than I bought them for. Which means they won't sell, so I'm staying 3.5! LONG LIVE THE GNOMES!
Edymnion 03-13-08, 08:51 AM	Well, except that if you put 3.0 and 3.5 together, the 3rd edition overall has lasted for roughly the same amount of time as the previous editions did.Um, not even close. 3e will have lasted 8 years. 2e lasted for 11, and 1e for 12. The minimum lifespan of 3e should have been 10 years.
Zombie_Babies 03-13-08, 10:07 AM	Hoo boy, this is gonna be good! In b4 dm_golem's flamebaiting response As Dave Chappelle says in Half Baked: "I don't fall for that s*** anymore!" :D
pukunui 03-13-08, 03:09 PM	(God forbid that they have touched my beloved rogues... I've merely seen the wizard and warlock)You obviously haven't been following the 4e previews that closely then because Bill published the entire rogue class entry from the 4e PHB in his Ampersand column. You can view it here: Sneak Attack! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080222a) And judging by that, I'm probably not going to like the rules. It almost seems as if they are taking THE fundamental rule away. If you're new to the game, you may not have encountered it before but I'll fill you in. The rule is "What the DM says goes, no matter how stupid it is" And if you are taking that out, then I don't think it's real DnD.I can't tell if you're being facetious here or not ... but it actually looks like that rule is becoming even more important in 4e, not less. DM fiat is a big part of the 4e design philosophy. Um, not even close. 3e will have lasted 8 years. 2e lasted for 11, and 1e for 12. The minimum lifespan of 3e should have been 10 years.Hence the reason I put the adjective "roughly" in my comment. It is my belief that "roughly" adequately covers the fact that 3e lasted for 8 years, which is only 3 or so years less than the other editions. I would not say that's "not even close". If the other editions had lasted for 15-20 years each and 3e still only lasted for 8, then yes, you could justifiably say it's not even close, but we're only talking a few years' difference here, so it is close. Also, I'd much rather have something (be it an RPG edition or a TV show or whatever) end without its creators feeling they have to artificially keep it alive in order to meet some sort of "minimum life span" (and that's not even getting into whether or not 3e already has been artificially kept alive longer than it should have been). I'm sorry but that's just silly. ;) :P Has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't posted here in a while?
Fenrir_Greyback 03-13-08, 04:22 PM	You obviously haven't been following the 4e previews that closely then because Bill published the entire rogue class entry from the 4e PHB in his Ampersand column. You can view it here: Sneak Attack! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080222a) I can't tell if you're being facetious here or not ... but it actually looks like that rule is becoming even more important in 4e, not less. DM fiat is a big part of the 4e design philosophy. What's with shruiken?! What's with the lowered and horrible SA? And what happened to rapiers, which are only the classic suave rogue weapon? I'm disgusted! As for the DM rule, I'm being deadly serious. From what I've read, it's being thrown out the window. If that's what everything in 4th is like, I'm boycotting it.
pukunui 03-13-08, 05:24 PM	What's with shruiken?! What's with the lowered and horrible SA? And what happened to rapiers, which are only the classic suave rogue weapon? I'm disgusted!:rolleyes: Why am I not surprised you'd react like that? The thing to remember is that the rogue entry is taken out of context. For all we know, there's a sort of general "all classes get these things" section or something like that. To threaten to boycott something based on a few snippets taken out of context is a bit rash if you ask me. As for the DM rule, I'm being deadly serious. From what I've read, it's being thrown out the window.Can you provide some examples? Cos over on EN World there are anti-4e people complaining about the exact opposite (that 4e will be relying on DM fiat too much). For starters, there's the whole exception-based design philosophy. Monsters and NPCs don't have to obey the same rules as PCs in 4e. How is that throwing "don't question the DM" out the window? With 4e, the DM will be able to throw some monster at the PCs that can do some totally bizarre thing and the PCs won't be able to complain that they can't do it because the DM can just say, "The monsters don't obey the same rules as you guys do. I can have them do whatever I want them to do."
awaken_D_M_golem 03-13-08, 07:30 PM	Hey OP, here's what NOT Escef NOT Jaxgaret NOT Zombie_Babies are ignoring ---> linky post #127 (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15334372&postcount=127)
Kursk 03-13-08, 07:47 PM	What's with shruiken?! What's with the lowered and horrible SA? And what happened to rapiers, which are only the classic suave rogue weapon? I'm disgusted! As for the DM rule, I'm being deadly serious. From what I've read, it's being thrown out the window. If that's what everything in 4th is like, I'm boycotting it. I just read the link above. From that and the reviews I've read it's like a video game, only worse.
pukunui 03-13-08, 08:03 PM	I just read the link above. From that and the reviews I've read it's like a video game, only worse. FWIW, a second-hand comment from someone who thought 4e was like a videogame, tried it, and got hooked: The warlock player had played 1e/2e extensively, but only played 3e when it first came out in 2000. He burned out on 3e and had quit D&D by the time 3.5 came out. When being explained the rules and looking over his character sheet, he commented that it felt somewhat like a videogame. I asked him neutrally whether he thought that was a good or a bad thing, and he responded that he didn't know yet. He'd have to play first. After the game, he said that while there does seem to be a slight videogame feel from his perspective, he really enjoyed it. He loved cursing the bad guys without them getting any save against it. He loved using eyebite to make himself invisible to his foes, and he liked the teleport step he could take when dropping a cursed foe. He also took advantage of the movement rules and was all over the map. I suspect that his lack of 3.5 baggage helped him grok the new system faster. I lent him my 4e preview books, and showed him the scanned pages from D&D XP with the monster stats and stuff. He said he was only mildly interested in 4e before today, but now he is totally hooked, and jokingly accused me of peddling D&D crack.
Kursk 03-13-08, 08:25 PM	FWIW, a second-hand comment from someone who thought 4e was like a videogame, tried it, and got hooked: No doubt I will try and play 4.0. Just like I sometimes play Traveller & other RPGs. But, when I want to play D&D, 4.0 won't be what I'll play.
pukunui 03-13-08, 08:55 PM	No doubt I will try and play 4.0. Just like I sometimes play Traveller & other RPGs. But, when I want to play D&D, 4.0 won't be what I'll play.Never mind.
Escef 03-14-08, 01:48 AM	Hey OP, here's what NOT Escef NOT Jaxgaret NOT Zombie_Babies are ignoring ---> linky post #127 (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15334372&postcount=127) Dude, how about you respond to my comments in the thread they were made in? What you just did is really... well, stupid.