[3.5] Magic Item and "1" as saving throw: what is the out come? [Archive] - Wizards Community

[3.5] Magic Item and "1" as saving throw: what is the out come? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nagure
04-01-07, 07:38 PM Hello to everybody:)

I'm going here to post a question i have to solve as DM, because even after reading F.a.q. and finding out "search" button is disable in board :weep: i need to ask this forum directly;)

Here we go:

I'm DM of a 3.5 DnD campaign. A player of mine rolled a natural "1" after being hit by a fireball. So i want to apply to his items the rule about breaking of magical items.

Because my player rolled 1 on a d20 his magic items have to save against a spell who might deal damage. The spell here is a classic fireball.

Now: the saving throw is

A) 2+1/2 mage level because with 1 a magic item is considered unattended

B) the player's ST

I believe is A option because an area spell usally does not require a ST to an item.

Anyone can aswer me or post me a link where this question is answered?:)

Thank you to anyone for the patience;)
Seeker95
04-01-07, 09:31 PM The answer is:
C. It has a saving throw bonus of 2 + 1/2 the caster level of the item.
This is made against the same DC the bearer failed against.

You can find this on page 214 of the DMG.

Magic items have generally sucky saving throws, since everyone always creates them as cheap as possible.
Nom
04-01-07, 10:11 PM Actually Seeker, that's the correct value for 'A'.

'B' also applies. From PH chapter 9: "An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better."

The magic item isn't considered unattended; the natural 1 merely means that one attended item gets attacked as well as the owner.

Let's say the hapless character is wearing (among other things) a magic hat of caster level 6. He is hit by DC 15 fireball and fails his +4 Ref save with a natural 1. He is also wearing a magic shield, and magic cloak and is holding a longsword, but is not wearing armour. The d4 roll comes up 2, which is the helmet (#3 on table, but #2 - armour - is not available).

The helmet makes saves at 2 + CL/2, or 5. Thus, the helmet uses its save (+5) rather than the character's Ref save (+4). If the save succeeds, the helmet takes half damage, otherwise it takes full damage. In either case, the damage is halved again (fire damage vs object) and then reduced by 10 (hardness 10 of metal helmet) before being applied to the helmet's hit points.
Seeker95
04-01-07, 10:47 PM Actually Seeker, that's the correct value for 'A'.I assumed that when he said "mage level" he was implying the level of the owner, who happened to be a mage. An incorrect assumption, as I re-read the post. Thank you for the clarification.

To the OP: "mage level" should be "caster level" if for no other reason than the caster level is determined by the creator, and may be of a class other than a mage.
Nom
04-02-07, 07:07 AM I assumed that when he said "mage level" he was implying the level of the owner, who happened to be a mage. An incorrect assumption, as I re-read the post. Thank you for the clarification.Ah. That explains it. :)
Varia
04-02-07, 09:58 AM 1- Is an item vulnerable to being damaged by a spell or effect not specifically targetted on it? PHB p 177 left column, last paragraph- If a character rolls a 1 on a saving throw against a spell or effect that can damage items then 1 item is damaged. Roll 1d4. Look at table 10-1 just above that paragraph and count down that list, skipping past things the victim does not possess, till you get the number item on that list equal to the 1d4 result that the player possesses and is wearing. Eg- if you roll a 3 on the item then you find the 3rd item on that list that the player actually has. For a 2-handed fighter that would be his weapon, since he doesnt have a shield. For a mage wearing neither armor nor shield the 3rd item would be his magic cloak. And so on. If an item was directly and specifically targetted then skip to #2.

2- How much damage does the randomly selected item take? PHB p 167 left column, 2cnd and 3rd sentences. If it on a character, as this one is, it gets a saving throw as its owner, or uses its own unattended item saving throw, whichever is better. It then suffers any damage that results from the spell, if any (some spells do full or no damage depending on the saving throw, while some, like the fireball in this specific example, do full or half damage depending on the save). This is the base damage done to the item.

3- Does the item survive the damage? First, note the type of damage done. PHB p 165, right column, 4rth paragraph- Acid and sonic attacks do full base damage, fire and electricity do half damage, cold does 1/4 damage. Adjust the base damage by the appropriate modifier, then subtract the hardness of the item. Anything left over is the actual damage done to the item. If it loses all its hit points it is destroyed, otherwise it is merely damaged and continues to function. Item hardness and hit points are listed in the tables 9-8, 9-9, and 9-11 on p 166. A damaged item can be repaired when time and opportunity permits, either by a skilled and equiped craftsman, or by the use of magic (eg Mending, Make Whole, etc).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nagure 04-01-07, 07:38 PM	Hello to everybody:) I'm going here to post a question i have to solve as DM, because even after reading F.a.q. and finding out "search" button is disable in board :weep: i need to ask this forum directly;) Here we go: I'm DM of a 3.5 DnD campaign. A player of mine rolled a natural "1" after being hit by a fireball. So i want to apply to his items the rule about breaking of magical items. Because my player rolled 1 on a d20 his magic items have to save against a spell who might deal damage. The spell here is a classic fireball. Now: the saving throw is A) 2+1/2 mage level because with 1 a magic item is considered unattended B) the player's ST I believe is A option because an area spell usally does not require a ST to an item. Anyone can aswer me or post me a link where this question is answered?:) Thank you to anyone for the patience;)
Seeker95 04-01-07, 09:31 PM	The answer is: C. It has a saving throw bonus of 2 + 1/2 the caster level of the item. This is made against the same DC the bearer failed against. You can find this on page 214 of the DMG. Magic items have generally sucky saving throws, since everyone always creates them as cheap as possible.
Nom 04-01-07, 10:11 PM	Actually Seeker, that's the correct value for 'A'. 'B' also applies. From PH chapter 9: "An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better." The magic item isn't considered unattended; the natural 1 merely means that one attended item gets attacked as well as the owner. Let's say the hapless character is wearing (among other things) a magic hat of caster level 6. He is hit by DC 15 fireball and fails his +4 Ref save with a natural 1. He is also wearing a magic shield, and magic cloak and is holding a longsword, but is not wearing armour. The d4 roll comes up 2, which is the helmet (#3 on table, but #2 - armour - is not available). The helmet makes saves at 2 + CL/2, or 5. Thus, the helmet uses its save (+5) rather than the character's Ref save (+4). If the save succeeds, the helmet takes half damage, otherwise it takes full damage. In either case, the damage is halved again (fire damage vs object) and then reduced by 10 (hardness 10 of metal helmet) before being applied to the helmet's hit points.
Seeker95 04-01-07, 10:47 PM	Actually Seeker, that's the correct value for 'A'.I assumed that when he said "mage level" he was implying the level of the owner, who happened to be a mage. An incorrect assumption, as I re-read the post. Thank you for the clarification. To the OP: "mage level" should be "caster level" if for no other reason than the caster level is determined by the creator, and may be of a class other than a mage.
Nom 04-02-07, 07:07 AM	I assumed that when he said "mage level" he was implying the level of the owner, who happened to be a mage. An incorrect assumption, as I re-read the post. Thank you for the clarification.Ah. That explains it. :)
Varia 04-02-07, 09:58 AM	1- Is an item vulnerable to being damaged by a spell or effect not specifically targetted on it? PHB p 177 left column, last paragraph- If a character rolls a 1 on a saving throw against a spell or effect that can damage items then 1 item is damaged. Roll 1d4. Look at table 10-1 just above that paragraph and count down that list, skipping past things the victim does not possess, till you get the number item on that list equal to the 1d4 result that the player possesses and is wearing. Eg- if you roll a 3 on the item then you find the 3rd item on that list that the player actually has. For a 2-handed fighter that would be his weapon, since he doesnt have a shield. For a mage wearing neither armor nor shield the 3rd item would be his magic cloak. And so on. If an item was directly and specifically targetted then skip to #2. 2- How much damage does the randomly selected item take? PHB p 167 left column, 2cnd and 3rd sentences. If it on a character, as this one is, it gets a saving throw as its owner, or uses its own unattended item saving throw, whichever is better. It then suffers any damage that results from the spell, if any (some spells do full or no damage depending on the saving throw, while some, like the fireball in this specific example, do full or half damage depending on the save). This is the base damage done to the item. 3- Does the item survive the damage? First, note the type of damage done. PHB p 165, right column, 4rth paragraph- Acid and sonic attacks do full base damage, fire and electricity do half damage, cold does 1/4 damage. Adjust the base damage by the appropriate modifier, then subtract the hardness of the item. Anything left over is the actual damage done to the item. If it loses all its hit points it is destroyed, otherwise it is merely damaged and continues to function. Item hardness and hit points are listed in the tables 9-8, 9-9, and 9-11 on p 166. A damaged item can be repaired when time and opportunity permits, either by a skilled and equiped craftsman, or by the use of magic (eg Mending, Make Whole, etc).