Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kail_Atin 08-09-04, 12:11 AM	May I ask to clarify to me what is really wrong with 3.5? I was reading the sage no more thread and I wondered why everyone suddenly hates 3.5? The reason this applies to my home at D&D General is because I want the problem of the version as a whole not in just the PHB. So please post FACTS, NOT OPINIONS of why 3.5 is bad. Please list the book and page number also, as it will help everyone see from your point of view. Please do not post things like: "I hate the weapons size rules. They are stupid." I can't stop you from doing this, but please be polite. No one-liners: "I have no problem with 3.5" is not an answer I'm looking for. And a note to the Wiz-O's: Since this is a true Debate Thread, there is no doubt in my mind that a flaming or two will occur. Please be a little bit more lienent in warning and locking the thread. With that, let the action begin!
Gadodel 08-09-04, 12:14 AM	Currently, I am using a bootleg version of 4th Ed. It works so-so. I am not sure how they can be thinking about asking $50 dollars for just the PHB though...
WizO_Catoblepas 08-09-04, 12:17 AM	No can do. But what I can do is this: If the guest flames another guest with their post, it is considered baiting. Since baiting is against the Code of Conduct, the guest is going to get an official warn for their action. Fair warning! Keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. Thanks.
Kail_Atin 08-09-04, 12:19 AM	Originally posted by Gadodel Currently, I am using a bootleg version of 4th Ed. It works so-so. I am not sure how they can be thinking about asking $50 dollars for just the PHB though... This is very irrelevant to the topic. Please Disregard
Arrowhen 08-09-04, 02:42 AM	So please post FACTS, NOT OPINIONS of why 3.5 is bad. Um... there really *can't* be any purely factual basis for deciding which version is better. That's like saying, "Prove to me that Coke tastes better than Pepsi. Facts only, not opinions."
Kaya Kenobi 08-09-04, 03:23 AM	I'll echo Arrowhen and add this: Do a search. You'll find millions of arguments for and against 3.5. I for one, don't like 3.5. I also use a different version, which is my version of DnD. It mixes both and works well. I guess you can call it a bootlegged 4e. :D
Incenjucar 08-09-04, 07:30 AM	A game's a game's a game. There's no right or wrong, good or bad, only personal preference.
Seeker95 08-09-04, 11:05 AM	There are no "facts" with regard to good or bad. As soon as you identify any characteristic as good or bad, it is opinion. I prefer 3.5, and I have many reasons. But the reasons I proovide are firmly provided on the basis of opinion. As soon as I present any reason I prefer 3.5, it takes but a simple disagreement with the value / opinion I have attached to the reason to discount both my premise and my conclusion. As such, the foundational premises of the debate are flawed, and no true debate can occur.
Naeron 08-09-04, 01:15 PM	I prefer 3.5 to 3.0 because, in my opinion, the worthwhile changes outweigh the things left unchanged or the new problems introduced. But as others have said it is very much a case of personal opinion. While I may applaud the downgrading of Haste, the new way of handling weapons sizes or the change to Whirlwind attack that prevents the Bag of Rats trick there will be others who dislike the new weapon sizes or the removal of the partial charge. The changes were not ground-breaking but there were quite a few small changes, is 3.5 less abusable than 3.0. Yes in my opinion its is but it still has its grey areas and loopholes. Its just not possible to factually quantify whether 3.5 is better because for any given change that does not directly close a loophole it is likely that as many people will dislike the change as will praise it. As an example the 2nd level stat spells (Bull's Strength etc) received a duration downgrade from 1 hour/level to 1 minute/level. Whether you see that a god or bad is going to be entirely a matter of opinion.
Gadodel 08-09-04, 04:25 PM	Originally posted by Arrowhen Um... there really *can't* be any purely factual basis for deciding which version is better. That's like saying, "Prove to me that Coke tastes better than Pepsi. Facts only, not opinions." Well, everyone knows that Coke is better.
klyre 08-09-04, 05:03 PM	Originally posted by Gadodel Well, everyone knows that Coke is better. True dat.
Arrowhen 08-09-04, 05:13 PM	Yeah, until they nerfed the Sorceror in Coke II
Sphyre 08-09-04, 06:04 PM	Originally posted by Arrowhen Um... there really *can't* be any purely factual basis for deciding which version is better. That's like saying, "Prove to me that Coke tastes better than Pepsi. Facts only, not opinions." Originally posted by Gadodel Well, everyone knows that Coke is better. Originally posted by klyre True dat. That's a perfect example of 3.0 vs 3.5 posts... I for one prefer Pepsi. If I were to follow the norm I would say "You're crazy Pepsi is better." While those posts were made in good humor and exaggeration, it shows how just a prereference of one can bring about poor feelings about the other. I like coke too, just when I want something that's pretty much pure sugar as opposed to a flavor. Same as when I like 3.5 over 3.0. They are two different choices for two different perceptions of how the game should be, just as much as pepsi and coke are two different drinks for two different tongues. The reason why anyone thinks the choices are fact would be due to a logic fallacy or a crazy ego. #1 Reason why I like 3.5 over 3.0 - It bridged the gap between classes. While there still are "more powerful classes" the gaps are much smaller and it's much more attractive to play something other than a wizard in 3.5, in fact, you can play one and not be at the mercy of every wizard 5 levels lower than you after 10th level even.