3d6+1, 4d6 drop the lowest?? what do you do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3d6+1, 4d6 drop the lowest?? what do you do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Feng
08-12-04, 10:51 AM Hey everybody,

I havent posted for a little while because my campaign got stagnant playing the Dungeon Magazine adventure path series until finally there was a character breakdown and the group is leaning towards starting anew. My question is, and I apologize if this has been done before, how does everyone roll up characters? What does your group do? Ive done so many different things, but the group tends towards high fantasy with high rolls, so just doing 3d6 doesnt work. Im looking for something fresh and creative. Any suggeestions?

If this HAS been done before and people can point me in the direction of the archive that would be good too.
Thailfi
08-12-04, 11:12 AM Played for 24 years and have never rolled up a character any other way but:

Dark Sun - 6d4 drop the lowest.
Everything else - 4d6 drop the lowest.

Until I came to this forum it never occured to me that other groups roll up characters in any other way, but you are going to find people have an inordinate number of methods to generate a characters and many people will argue until they are blue in the face that their way is the best. There are numerous examples of posts on this forum about character generation methods, most of which just degenerate into arguements

Some of the more common that give higher stats than straight 3d6:

1. 4d6, drop the lowest
2. 3d6, reroll 1s or even 4d6 reroll 1s
3. Point buy (25 to infinity) All scores start at 8 and you get a predetermined number of points to add to scores as you see fit. It costs one point to buy a score up 1 point until you get to 14. Going up to 15 and 16 costs you 2 points each and 17 and 18 costs you three points each.
4. Standard array. A predetermined set of scores that everyone uses and arranges as they see fit and then adjusts for race.
5. 2d6+6
Feng
08-12-04, 11:18 AM Thanks for the quick reply!
Im not much of an advocate for my own system. Im pretty open to everyone elses ideas so I think Ill just ignore the "mine is the best" view. Im just looking for grab a bunch of ideas and decide on something for Saturday. Ive always leaned towards the point buy system but it seems too structured and not random enough. 4d6 and rerolling ones might not be bad. But that might end up with some extraordinarily high rolls. Who knows, Im still open to other ideas.

Thanks again
Nurgan_the_drunked
08-12-04, 11:46 AM OK, this is an odd one, but in one of my campaign, character rolling went:

Roll 4D6, drop lowest for each ability score, in order they appear
Reroll 2 of these.
Swap two abilities

Then do it all again, and take the best set.

Seems long winded, but both common methods give the player the ability to put his abilities in exact order of importance.
This way means you can end up with not quite the stats you wanted, but good enough, and often being good at things you hadn't planned on. This makes for a little quirkiness and difference from stereotypes.

you really don't wanna know about the other campaign....
cerebus
08-12-04, 11:50 AM My rolling method is a bit odd:

4d6, drop lowest.
+1 for any double
+2 for three of a kind
+2 for two doubles
+3 for four of a kind

ex: 3,3,4,5 = 13
3,3,3,4 = 12
3,3,3,3 = 13
3,3,4,4 = 13

Makes for higher average scores, but not too high.
Thailfi
08-12-04, 12:31 PM My rolling method is a bit odd:

4d6, drop lowest.
+1 for any double
+2 for three of a kind
+2 for two doubles
+3 for four of a kind

ex: 3,3,4,5 = 13
3,3,3,4 = 12
3,3,3,3 = 13
3,3,4,4 = 13

What did you do for 6,6,5,6?
Feng
08-12-04, 12:37 PM Funny I hadnt even thought of that. I would assume you would cap the scores at 18.
cerebus
08-12-04, 12:53 PM Originally posted by Thailfi
What did you do for 6,6,5,6?

actually, it's a 20. It's not the only way to get a 18+ in 3e. The number of times Ive had a player roll over 18, though, is about 2 out of maybe 50+ characters (been doing this method since 1e)
Krelios
08-12-04, 12:56 PM I plan to use 2d6+6 in my next game. It generates stats between 8-18 like point buy, but it averages 13 instead of 10.
His Majesty
08-12-04, 12:56 PM Originally posted by Nurgan_the_drunked
Roll 4D6, drop lowest for each ability score, in order they appear
Reroll 2 of these.
Swap two abilities
This is the Organic Characters method, described in pg. 169 of the DMG. I use it in my games.
Originally posted by Nurgan_the_drunked
Then do it all again, and take the best set.
This isn't a part of it.
Originally posted by Nurgan_the_drunked
Seems long winded, but both common methods give the player the ability to put his abilities in exact order of importance.
This way means you can end up with not quite the stats you wanted, but good enough, and often being good at things you hadn't planned on. This makes for a little quirkiness and difference from stereotypes.
I agree.
blackprinceofmuncie
08-12-04, 04:24 PM Someone posted this method a while ago. I liked it and have been using it for my Basic D&D game.

3d6 + 1d4 (drop lowest) in order.

It keeps 17's and 18's rare, but bumps the average score up slightly.
IceFractal
08-12-04, 04:45 PM I've always been partial to point-buy. You can make it more or less powerful quite easily, it lets people set up their characters the way they want them, and the players are even with each other.
cerebus
08-12-04, 04:53 PM Originally posted by IceFractal
I've always been partial to point-buy. You can make it more or less powerful quite easily, it lets people set up their characters the way they want them, and the players are even with each other.

You have a point, but I disagree, I think the flavor of randomness gets lost that way. Although for national campaigns such as Living Greyhawk, they are a necessity. It also eliminates player cheating, if one is worried about such things. To each his own...
Feng
08-12-04, 05:01 PM Who uses point-buys? Ive been doing some tinkering with some of these great ideas and applying them to the standards that my group is used to and I keep going back to that one wondering if its possible to do it. If you use one, how many points do you give the players?
meabolex
08-12-04, 05:12 PM 25 point buy here -- it makes the CR system more meaningful if you using the point buy system for which it was designed. Technically, the CR system was designed using the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) -- but I think 25 point buy gives more flexibility without creating any CR incompatibility.
eclipticavatar
08-12-04, 07:54 PM Sometimes we use point buy.

Sometimes 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest, in any order.

Sometimes we roll 2 sets, pick best, sometimes 3. As almost everyone in our group DMs, it just depends on their attitude at the time. :)
Jereth Haldane
08-12-04, 08:26 PM Wow, my group's way of rolling up stats seems way too overpowered compared to the rest of the replies.
-- we use:
---- roll 5d6, reroll 1's and 2's, keep the highest 3
---- arrange as desired, and most times we roll up 2 to 3 stat blocks and keep the one we like.
This creates characters with above average stats, although in my Star Wars campaign the Scoundrel ended up with a 10 strength, and my Paladin in a Forgotten Realms Campaign ended up with a 12 Intelligence.
We have been using this method since 2nd Ed. when our Dm started a Wheel Of Time Campaign that's been going on for close to ten years, we are all over 20th level now, we started a 1st. When we converted to 3.0 D&D and the Wheel of Time RPG, I raised the issue of our high stats with the DM, and how they affect the game in the new edition. His answer was priceless, and I quote: "I don't care how high your stats are, I'll be able to challenge the party, no matter what." And he has :)
green_yawgmoth
08-13-04, 04:46 AM Originally posted by cerebus
My rolling method is a bit odd:

4d6, drop lowest.
+1 for any double
+2 for three of a kind
+2 for two doubles
+3 for four of a kind

ex: 3,3,4,5 = 13
3,3,3,4 = 12
3,3,3,3 = 13
3,3,4,4 = 13

Makes for higher average scores, but not too high. Oh man, I am so going to try to get this used in my next game. :D

http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
cerebus
08-13-04, 07:12 AM Yeah, it rocks. That's why I've used it since 1e. One of the most influential DMs I ever played under introduced me to it in 1985, and I haven't seen anything better.
The_Declaration
08-13-04, 10:30 AM I propose to my players a couple of different methods, and they choose the one they want, depending on their risk-aversion mainly:

1. 3 times 3d6 + 3 times 4d6 drop the lowest
2. 3d6 reroll if 1
3. 1d12+5
4. 1d20 reroll if: 1,2,3,4,19,20
5. 2d10 reroll if: 1,2,3,4,19,20
6. roll 7d20, reroll if: 1,2,19,20, drop the lowest

so it gives something like this (red being the average, blue the variance):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/The_Declaration/graph.jpg
Conaill
08-13-04, 10:25 PM Here's three that I feel combine some of the best features of pointbuy (balance between characters) and rolling (excitement, and "natural" looking stats):

1) Get a deck of cards and remove all but the 1-6 cards. Deal 6 hands of 4 cards, remove the lowest card from each hand and sum up. Gives almost exactly the same distribution of stats, but the set as a whole will be much better balanced.

2) Roll 3 stats using your favorite method. The remaining three are equal to 25 minus the first three (max 18). The stats will almost always sum up to exactly 75, and you'll get 3 odd and 3 even stats. (Use another odd value higher than 25 for more powerful stats.

3) Roll stats using your favorite method and calculate their point value. If the point value is higher than a predetermined target, lower some stats until you reach the target. If the point value is lower, increase some stats until you reach the target.
Dragonlover
08-13-04, 10:45 PM I tend to use option three, the roll stats and adjust to a set value. Our DM for the Eberron game said we could just choose any numbers we wanted as long as we could justify it, and I still ended up rolling my stats using the organic method then working from there, I found myself incapable of just picking six numbers lower than 18, which was strange.

Dragonlover
Salla
08-13-04, 10:53 PM Point Buy.
Roman
08-14-04, 09:03 PM I run a game with virtually no resurrection and other reviving magic and use a high powered ability score rolling method (as well as several other benefits given to the PCs) to partially offset this. Here is my ability generation method:

3d6+6 drop the lowest for most stats.
3d6+12 drop the 2 lowest for constitution.
Automatic 20 in one score of the player's choosing. This must be chosen before rolling.

I have to say that I really like cerebus's system, though, and might incorporate it into my system. :) My players need all the help they can get. ;)
Plunderer_of_the_planes
08-15-04, 12:19 AM 5d6 drop the lowest two. Rolled 7 times dropping lowest two scores. It may seem like it generates High numbers but they are just a bit above average and it decreases large gaps between scores. Most abilities fall in the 14-16 range although I have had higher or lower.
Escef
08-15-04, 09:01 AM Recently started a d20 Modern game where we used point buy. The players are used to high scores, so 32 points seemed like a good starting point. Yes, point buy nixes randomness. But if you look at how generous some of the dice methods are it seems a faster method (which would give about equal results) would be 1d8+10, 8 times, arrange the best 6 to taste.

I like point buy because it keeps the entire party on a level playing feild. I don't have to worry about Brian's character trashing something that would destroy Pat's simply because one was lucky enough to roll 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 12 and the other was "stuck" with 16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10 (which still isn't bad mind you).
Raven Dark
08-15-04, 11:00 AM Our group uses 72+2d6-point buy, trading the points on a 1-for-1 basis starting from 0 in each ability score. You can't have lower than a 3 or higher than an 18 before making secondary adjustments for age, level, and race.

OUTLINE (per character)
Step 1) Roll 2d6.
Step 2) Add 72 to your sum.
Step 3) Allocate the new sum among your ability scores.
Step 4) Make adjustments for age, level, magical items, & race.

This method usually generates powerful characters. It is great if you have a group that can't decide between point-buy or roll it methods (like mine) and it can be easily adjusted to suit your campaign (simply add or subtract from the dice or the base number to make characters less or more powerful). It also creates a range of possibilities, which means it is unlikely that players will end up with "cookie cutter characters." For example Joe may get a 74-point buy while Susie gets an 80-point buy.

Originally posted by Escef
...I don't have to worry about Brian's character trashing something that would destroy Pat's simply because one was lucky enough to roll 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 12 and the other was "stuck" with 16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10...

Our method also helps keep characters within a certain range of power within the group. Thus, you can narrow the range (say by reducing the extra d6's to d4's) to keep the individual characters more balanced within the group itself.

I hope you guys like our method!
Roman
08-15-04, 05:02 PM Not a bad hybrid stat generating method Raven Dark. :)

In some of the games I have played in, we also used 82 point point buy (and in still others even lower point buys.), where stats begin at 0 and 1 point increases the stat by 1.

In one campaign I am currently involved in, we roll 8d6, 7d6, 6d6, 5d6, 4d6, and 3d6. We assign each die roll to a stat before we roll. There is also the possibility to conduct one swap of stats.

In still games I have played (in fact this is the majority of them) we use the normal 4d6 drop the lowest method.
bahamut_0
08-15-04, 05:54 PM 3d6 drop the lowest +6

I like high powered games.
Conaill
08-16-04, 02:30 AM Ah yes, the "randomized pointbuy". Seems like a great compromise, but it actually winds up combining the WORST of both worlds!

Look at it this way... Why do people like pointbuy? Because it generates characters that are balanced with respect to each other, and everyone can generate their own scores at home without the DM having to check the rolls.

Why do people like rolling stats? Because it generates interesting, "natural" looking stats, and people like the excitement of rolling stats to see what they can make of them.

Randomized pointbuy has NONE of those desireable characteristics! (1) characters will not be balanced with each other, (2) the DM still has to oversee the dice rolls, (3) stats will be min-maxed just as much as in regular point-buy, and (4) no random element to spark the creative juices (the only random roll is to determine who will be better than everyone else).

Personally, I much prefer pointbuy over rolling stats, but I wouldn't want to touch randomized pointbuy with a 10' pole...

It IS possible to combine the BEST of both worlds, but not the way you described. Essentially, you'd like a method which has the excitement of rolling, but still generates characters which are more balanced with respect to each other. All three of the methods I suggested above have those features. The first one (using cards) is essentially just a better-balanced version of 4d6-drop-lowest, but the other two will generate perfectly balanced stats sets, with more or less of randomness and player input.
Sphyre
08-16-04, 10:24 AM Originally posted by green_yawgmoth
Oh man, I am so going to try to get this used in my next game. :D

http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif

Did you ever get around to trying out mine? (The one in my sig?)
Urban Hunter
08-16-04, 11:59 AM In my last game my DM had us roll 4d6 drop the lowest and put them on your stats in a row; first roll goes to STR second goes to DEX and so on. When I DM I like to have my players roll 3d6 or 4d6 (drop the lowest) and put them in a row as above. They switch two stats and THEN reroll one and stick with it. :)
KelanenPrinceofSwords
08-17-04, 12:10 AM Originally posted by IceFractal
I've always been partial to point-buy. You can make it more or less powerful quite easily, it lets people set up their characters the way they want them, and the players are even with each other.

I agree. This seems to be a very versatile and balanced way to ensure that every player gets a reasonable (and equal) character.
Conaill
08-17-04, 12:13 AM Originally posted by Sphyre
Did you ever get around to trying out mine? (The one in my sig?)
Doesn't look too bad, but not necessarily any more balanced than 4d6-drop-one.

It reminds me of another method I've heard about, where you get a "pool" of d6 dice, and you get to assign 3 or more dice to each stat. the stat is then calculated using best-3-out-of-n.

For example, if you started with 24 d6, you could assign 4d6 to each stat and essentially get the default 4d6-drop-1. OR you could assign 5d6 to STR, and CON, 4d6 to DEX and INT, and 3d6 to Wis and Cha. No swapping stats after you rolled them, of course. It gives a little more control than 4d6-drop-1 assigned in order.
Frozen Yakman
08-17-04, 01:40 AM I use give yourself the stats you want and then show it to me for approval. It's really rather simple actually.
Sphyre
08-17-04, 04:38 AM now that method encourages role playing. You want to be a strong legendary hero? play him. If you want to be a weak person who's not very good with people but nimble and smart, well there you go!

There was one time I wanted to play a straight 8 character for the chance to be completely less than average. I got to play her once... I can't remember her name but she was a gothic bard type. I think i gave her an 11 cha instead of 8, so she could cast 1st level spells.
Drasche
08-17-04, 08:41 PM I couldn't help but think that my players would die a little too quickly, so I devised a method for this one campaign:

1. Roll 5d6
2. Reroll the lowest three
3. Take the highest three after the reroll.

The characters ended up getting a few 18s, and it's done pretty well by them. The Halfling Rogue ended up with an AC of 22, but currently he's on the ground of a cave, bleeding to death, so it didn't help too much I suppose.

I would like to try point-buy next time around, though. Just to see how it goes.
Megatron
08-17-04, 09:48 PM 2d6+6

Very nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Feng 08-12-04, 10:51 AM	Hey everybody, I havent posted for a little while because my campaign got stagnant playing the Dungeon Magazine adventure path series until finally there was a character breakdown and the group is leaning towards starting anew. My question is, and I apologize if this has been done before, how does everyone roll up characters? What does your group do? Ive done so many different things, but the group tends towards high fantasy with high rolls, so just doing 3d6 doesnt work. Im looking for something fresh and creative. Any suggeestions? If this HAS been done before and people can point me in the direction of the archive that would be good too.
Thailfi 08-12-04, 11:12 AM	Played for 24 years and have never rolled up a character any other way but: Dark Sun - 6d4 drop the lowest. Everything else - 4d6 drop the lowest. Until I came to this forum it never occured to me that other groups roll up characters in any other way, but you are going to find people have an inordinate number of methods to generate a characters and many people will argue until they are blue in the face that their way is the best. There are numerous examples of posts on this forum about character generation methods, most of which just degenerate into arguements Some of the more common that give higher stats than straight 3d6: 1. 4d6, drop the lowest 2. 3d6, reroll 1s or even 4d6 reroll 1s 3. Point buy (25 to infinity) All scores start at 8 and you get a predetermined number of points to add to scores as you see fit. It costs one point to buy a score up 1 point until you get to 14. Going up to 15 and 16 costs you 2 points each and 17 and 18 costs you three points each. 4. Standard array. A predetermined set of scores that everyone uses and arranges as they see fit and then adjusts for race. 5. 2d6+6
Feng 08-12-04, 11:18 AM	Thanks for the quick reply! Im not much of an advocate for my own system. Im pretty open to everyone elses ideas so I think Ill just ignore the "mine is the best" view. Im just looking for grab a bunch of ideas and decide on something for Saturday. Ive always leaned towards the point buy system but it seems too structured and not random enough. 4d6 and rerolling ones might not be bad. But that might end up with some extraordinarily high rolls. Who knows, Im still open to other ideas. Thanks again
Nurgan_the_drunked 08-12-04, 11:46 AM	OK, this is an odd one, but in one of my campaign, character rolling went: Roll 4D6, drop lowest for each ability score, in order they appear Reroll 2 of these. Swap two abilities Then do it all again, and take the best set. Seems long winded, but both common methods give the player the ability to put his abilities in exact order of importance. This way means you can end up with not quite the stats you wanted, but good enough, and often being good at things you hadn't planned on. This makes for a little quirkiness and difference from stereotypes. you really don't wanna know about the other campaign....
cerebus 08-12-04, 11:50 AM	My rolling method is a bit odd: 4d6, drop lowest. +1 for any double +2 for three of a kind +2 for two doubles +3 for four of a kind ex: 3,3,4,5 = 13 3,3,3,4 = 12 3,3,3,3 = 13 3,3,4,4 = 13 Makes for higher average scores, but not too high.
Thailfi 08-12-04, 12:31 PM	My rolling method is a bit odd: 4d6, drop lowest. +1 for any double +2 for three of a kind +2 for two doubles +3 for four of a kind ex: 3,3,4,5 = 13 3,3,3,4 = 12 3,3,3,3 = 13 3,3,4,4 = 13 What did you do for 6,6,5,6?
Feng 08-12-04, 12:37 PM	Funny I hadnt even thought of that. I would assume you would cap the scores at 18.
cerebus 08-12-04, 12:53 PM	Originally posted by Thailfi What did you do for 6,6,5,6? actually, it's a 20. It's not the only way to get a 18+ in 3e. The number of times Ive had a player roll over 18, though, is about 2 out of maybe 50+ characters (been doing this method since 1e)
Krelios 08-12-04, 12:56 PM	I plan to use 2d6+6 in my next game. It generates stats between 8-18 like point buy, but it averages 13 instead of 10.
His Majesty 08-12-04, 12:56 PM	Originally posted by Nurgan_the_drunked Roll 4D6, drop lowest for each ability score, in order they appear Reroll 2 of these. Swap two abilities This is the Organic Characters method, described in pg. 169 of the DMG. I use it in my games. Originally posted by Nurgan_the_drunked Then do it all again, and take the best set. This isn't a part of it. Originally posted by Nurgan_the_drunked Seems long winded, but both common methods give the player the ability to put his abilities in exact order of importance. This way means you can end up with not quite the stats you wanted, but good enough, and often being good at things you hadn't planned on. This makes for a little quirkiness and difference from stereotypes. I agree.
blackprinceofmuncie 08-12-04, 04:24 PM	Someone posted this method a while ago. I liked it and have been using it for my Basic D&D game. 3d6 + 1d4 (drop lowest) in order. It keeps 17's and 18's rare, but bumps the average score up slightly.
IceFractal 08-12-04, 04:45 PM	I've always been partial to point-buy. You can make it more or less powerful quite easily, it lets people set up their characters the way they want them, and the players are even with each other.
cerebus 08-12-04, 04:53 PM	Originally posted by IceFractal I've always been partial to point-buy. You can make it more or less powerful quite easily, it lets people set up their characters the way they want them, and the players are even with each other. You have a point, but I disagree, I think the flavor of randomness gets lost that way. Although for national campaigns such as Living Greyhawk, they are a necessity. It also eliminates player cheating, if one is worried about such things. To each his own...
Feng 08-12-04, 05:01 PM	Who uses point-buys? Ive been doing some tinkering with some of these great ideas and applying them to the standards that my group is used to and I keep going back to that one wondering if its possible to do it. If you use one, how many points do you give the players?
meabolex 08-12-04, 05:12 PM	25 point buy here -- it makes the CR system more meaningful if you using the point buy system for which it was designed. Technically, the CR system was designed using the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) -- but I think 25 point buy gives more flexibility without creating any CR incompatibility.
eclipticavatar 08-12-04, 07:54 PM	Sometimes we use point buy. Sometimes 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest, in any order. Sometimes we roll 2 sets, pick best, sometimes 3. As almost everyone in our group DMs, it just depends on their attitude at the time. :)
Jereth Haldane 08-12-04, 08:26 PM	Wow, my group's way of rolling up stats seems way too overpowered compared to the rest of the replies. -- we use: ---- roll 5d6, reroll 1's and 2's, keep the highest 3 ---- arrange as desired, and most times we roll up 2 to 3 stat blocks and keep the one we like. This creates characters with above average stats, although in my Star Wars campaign the Scoundrel ended up with a 10 strength, and my Paladin in a Forgotten Realms Campaign ended up with a 12 Intelligence. We have been using this method since 2nd Ed. when our Dm started a Wheel Of Time Campaign that's been going on for close to ten years, we are all over 20th level now, we started a 1st. When we converted to 3.0 D&D and the Wheel of Time RPG, I raised the issue of our high stats with the DM, and how they affect the game in the new edition. His answer was priceless, and I quote: "I don't care how high your stats are, I'll be able to challenge the party, no matter what." And he has :)
green_yawgmoth 08-13-04, 04:46 AM	Originally posted by cerebus My rolling method is a bit odd: 4d6, drop lowest. +1 for any double +2 for three of a kind +2 for two doubles +3 for four of a kind ex: 3,3,4,5 = 13 3,3,3,4 = 12 3,3,3,3 = 13 3,3,4,4 = 13 Makes for higher average scores, but not too high. Oh man, I am so going to try to get this used in my next game. :D http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
cerebus 08-13-04, 07:12 AM	Yeah, it rocks. That's why I've used it since 1e. One of the most influential DMs I ever played under introduced me to it in 1985, and I haven't seen anything better.
The_Declaration 08-13-04, 10:30 AM	I propose to my players a couple of different methods, and they choose the one they want, depending on their risk-aversion mainly: 1. 3 times 3d6 + 3 times 4d6 drop the lowest 2. 3d6 reroll if 1 3. 1d12+5 4. 1d20 reroll if: 1,2,3,4,19,20 5. 2d10 reroll if: 1,2,3,4,19,20 6. roll 7d20, reroll if: 1,2,19,20, drop the lowest so it gives something like this (red being the average, blue the variance): http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/The_Declaration/graph.jpg
Conaill 08-13-04, 10:25 PM	Here's three that I feel combine some of the best features of pointbuy (balance between characters) and rolling (excitement, and "natural" looking stats): 1) Get a deck of cards and remove all but the 1-6 cards. Deal 6 hands of 4 cards, remove the lowest card from each hand and sum up. Gives almost exactly the same distribution of stats, but the set as a whole will be much better balanced. 2) Roll 3 stats using your favorite method. The remaining three are equal to 25 minus the first three (max 18). The stats will almost always sum up to exactly 75, and you'll get 3 odd and 3 even stats. (Use another odd value higher than 25 for more powerful stats. 3) Roll stats using your favorite method and calculate their point value. If the point value is higher than a predetermined target, lower some stats until you reach the target. If the point value is lower, increase some stats until you reach the target.
Dragonlover 08-13-04, 10:45 PM	I tend to use option three, the roll stats and adjust to a set value. Our DM for the Eberron game said we could just choose any numbers we wanted as long as we could justify it, and I still ended up rolling my stats using the organic method then working from there, I found myself incapable of just picking six numbers lower than 18, which was strange. Dragonlover
Salla 08-13-04, 10:53 PM	Point Buy.
Roman 08-14-04, 09:03 PM	I run a game with virtually no resurrection and other reviving magic and use a high powered ability score rolling method (as well as several other benefits given to the PCs) to partially offset this. Here is my ability generation method: 3d6+6 drop the lowest for most stats. 3d6+12 drop the 2 lowest for constitution. Automatic 20 in one score of the player's choosing. This must be chosen before rolling. I have to say that I really like cerebus's system, though, and might incorporate it into my system. :) My players need all the help they can get. ;)
Plunderer_of_the_planes 08-15-04, 12:19 AM	5d6 drop the lowest two. Rolled 7 times dropping lowest two scores. It may seem like it generates High numbers but they are just a bit above average and it decreases large gaps between scores. Most abilities fall in the 14-16 range although I have had higher or lower.
Escef 08-15-04, 09:01 AM	Recently started a d20 Modern game where we used point buy. The players are used to high scores, so 32 points seemed like a good starting point. Yes, point buy nixes randomness. But if you look at how generous some of the dice methods are it seems a faster method (which would give about equal results) would be 1d8+10, 8 times, arrange the best 6 to taste. I like point buy because it keeps the entire party on a level playing feild. I don't have to worry about Brian's character trashing something that would destroy Pat's simply because one was lucky enough to roll 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 12 and the other was "stuck" with 16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10 (which still isn't bad mind you).
Raven Dark 08-15-04, 11:00 AM	Our group uses 72+2d6-point buy, trading the points on a 1-for-1 basis starting from 0 in each ability score. You can't have lower than a 3 or higher than an 18 before making secondary adjustments for age, level, and race. OUTLINE (per character) Step 1) Roll 2d6. Step 2) Add 72 to your sum. Step 3) Allocate the new sum among your ability scores. Step 4) Make adjustments for age, level, magical items, & race. This method usually generates powerful characters. It is great if you have a group that can't decide between point-buy or roll it methods (like mine) and it can be easily adjusted to suit your campaign (simply add or subtract from the dice or the base number to make characters less or more powerful). It also creates a range of possibilities, which means it is unlikely that players will end up with "cookie cutter characters." For example Joe may get a 74-point buy while Susie gets an 80-point buy. Originally posted by Escef ...I don't have to worry about Brian's character trashing something that would destroy Pat's simply because one was lucky enough to roll 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 12 and the other was "stuck" with 16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10... Our method also helps keep characters within a certain range of power within the group. Thus, you can narrow the range (say by reducing the extra d6's to d4's) to keep the individual characters more balanced within the group itself. I hope you guys like our method!
Roman 08-15-04, 05:02 PM	Not a bad hybrid stat generating method Raven Dark. :) In some of the games I have played in, we also used 82 point point buy (and in still others even lower point buys.), where stats begin at 0 and 1 point increases the stat by 1. In one campaign I am currently involved in, we roll 8d6, 7d6, 6d6, 5d6, 4d6, and 3d6. We assign each die roll to a stat before we roll. There is also the possibility to conduct one swap of stats. In still games I have played (in fact this is the majority of them) we use the normal 4d6 drop the lowest method.
bahamut_0 08-15-04, 05:54 PM	3d6 drop the lowest +6 I like high powered games.
Conaill 08-16-04, 02:30 AM	Ah yes, the "randomized pointbuy". Seems like a great compromise, but it actually winds up combining the WORST of both worlds! Look at it this way... Why do people like pointbuy? Because it generates characters that are balanced with respect to each other, and everyone can generate their own scores at home without the DM having to check the rolls. Why do people like rolling stats? Because it generates interesting, "natural" looking stats, and people like the excitement of rolling stats to see what they can make of them. Randomized pointbuy has NONE of those desireable characteristics! (1) characters will not be balanced with each other, (2) the DM still has to oversee the dice rolls, (3) stats will be min-maxed just as much as in regular point-buy, and (4) no random element to spark the creative juices (the only random roll is to determine who will be better than everyone else). Personally, I much prefer pointbuy over rolling stats, but I wouldn't want to touch randomized pointbuy with a 10' pole... It IS possible to combine the BEST of both worlds, but not the way you described. Essentially, you'd like a method which has the excitement of rolling, but still generates characters which are more balanced with respect to each other. All three of the methods I suggested above have those features. The first one (using cards) is essentially just a better-balanced version of 4d6-drop-lowest, but the other two will generate perfectly balanced stats sets, with more or less of randomness and player input.
Sphyre 08-16-04, 10:24 AM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth Oh man, I am so going to try to get this used in my next game. :D http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Did you ever get around to trying out mine? (The one in my sig?)
Urban Hunter 08-16-04, 11:59 AM	In my last game my DM had us roll 4d6 drop the lowest and put them on your stats in a row; first roll goes to STR second goes to DEX and so on. When I DM I like to have my players roll 3d6 or 4d6 (drop the lowest) and put them in a row as above. They switch two stats and THEN reroll one and stick with it. :)
KelanenPrinceofSwords 08-17-04, 12:10 AM	Originally posted by IceFractal I've always been partial to point-buy. You can make it more or less powerful quite easily, it lets people set up their characters the way they want them, and the players are even with each other. I agree. This seems to be a very versatile and balanced way to ensure that every player gets a reasonable (and equal) character.
Conaill 08-17-04, 12:13 AM	Originally posted by Sphyre Did you ever get around to trying out mine? (The one in my sig?) Doesn't look too bad, but not necessarily any more balanced than 4d6-drop-one. It reminds me of another method I've heard about, where you get a "pool" of d6 dice, and you get to assign 3 or more dice to each stat. the stat is then calculated using best-3-out-of-n. For example, if you started with 24 d6, you could assign 4d6 to each stat and essentially get the default 4d6-drop-1. OR you could assign 5d6 to STR, and CON, 4d6 to DEX and INT, and 3d6 to Wis and Cha. No swapping stats after you rolled them, of course. It gives a little more control than 4d6-drop-1 assigned in order.
Frozen Yakman 08-17-04, 01:40 AM	I use give yourself the stats you want and then show it to me for approval. It's really rather simple actually.
Sphyre 08-17-04, 04:38 AM	now that method encourages role playing. You want to be a strong legendary hero? play him. If you want to be a weak person who's not very good with people but nimble and smart, well there you go! There was one time I wanted to play a straight 8 character for the chance to be completely less than average. I got to play her once... I can't remember her name but she was a gothic bard type. I think i gave her an 11 cha instead of 8, so she could cast 1st level spells.
Drasche 08-17-04, 08:41 PM	I couldn't help but think that my players would die a little too quickly, so I devised a method for this one campaign: 1. Roll 5d6 2. Reroll the lowest three 3. Take the highest three after the reroll. The characters ended up getting a few 18s, and it's done pretty well by them. The Halfling Rogue ended up with an AC of 22, but currently he's on the ground of a cave, bleeding to death, so it didn't help too much I suppose. I would like to try point-buy next time around, though. Just to see how it goes.
Megatron 08-17-04, 09:48 PM	2d6+6 Very nice.