Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tsipaf 09-05-05, 09:11 AM	It is not very hard 4 an average player, if he has played the 2nd and 3rd, to distinguish which is better. First the 3rd specialize the char. to hack & slash with all the feats and powers that were optional in the 2nd rather than make him role playing by converstation and skills. No class restrictions, how can a gay elf or worst a hafling become a paladin. Before a heroic battle the paladin makes a speech but in last rows cannot see him( hafling or dwarf). Worst is a barbarian gnome he fights with his nose and the opponents die from laughter. How can a Php have a chapter for deities when each world has its own. The new players will think that this are the only ones. If a lvl 1 char. kills a beast of CR 26 (like Bard in The Hobbit) there is no explanation for the Xps He is going to earn. A human can be a 1 lvl barbarian then take a lvl 1 wizzard and then 1 lvl druid. Also d20 system f****d the rpgs that had a system of their own and now they had to adopt it.(critical hit in Call Of Cthullu you meet Cthullu and score a critical. The game had the best role play and combat system ever). The revised edition came only about two years after the release of the 3rd edition. Didn't they make tests of whether the php is complete or broken. The just tried to take your money!! The 2nd edition php came out I think in 1989 and the revised in 1994 with just some different drawings and few rules changed. The same company that publishes D&D (Hasbro) also produses Lego. These are some arguments that came to my mind the time I was writting the post so it may be more. Wizards of the Toast burned AD&D I am a friend of Tsipaf
jokotoko 09-05-05, 09:42 AM	Not that this post is even worthy of a reply...but nevertheless: First the 3rd specialize the char. to hack & slash with all the feats and powers that were optional in the 2nd rather than make him role playing by converstation and skills. Sure, because it is really bad to actually have a game-mechanic underlying the actions you undertake. I am sure you can "role play" the great cleave attempt of your character quite well, but without an underlying mechanic the question what a character can and cannot do becomes completely arbitrary. No class restrictions, how can a gay elf or worst a hafling become a paladin. Before a heroic battle the paladin makes a speech but in last rows cannot see him( hafling or dwarf). Worst is a barbarian gnome he fights with his nose and the opponents die from laughter. A gay elf? What does his sexual preference have to do with anything. The last rows might just actually see him because he is standing on a platform or is actually talking to a legion of halfling outriders. It is just your lack of imagination. But of course, you're right since we all know all gnomes fight with their noses. How can a Php have a chapter for deities when each world has its own. The new players will think that this are the only ones. First of all, its a PHB and not a Php. And what's wrong with having a default world. Change it if you don't like it. If a lvl 1 char. kills a beast of CR 26 (like Bard in The Hobbit) there is no explanation for the Xps He is going to earn. No, because statistically, the change of it happening is close to zero. If you like to put 1st lvl chars against CR26 monsters and let them lose 99,99% of the time, be my guest, but don't complain about the XP table not being complete or anything. If you let something like this happen, you are so far out of the core rules you can;t even see them anymore. A human can be a 1 lvl barbarian then take a lvl 1 wizzard and then 1 lvl druid. Only if the DM lets him. Furthermore, that character would be terribly inefficient. Also d20 system f****d the rpgs that had a system of their own and now they had to adopt it.(critical hit in Call Of Cthullu you meet Cthullu and score a critical. The game had the best role play and combat system ever). So, go and play that game... The revised edition came only about two years after the release of the 3rd edition. Didn't they make tests of whether the php is complete or broken. The just tried to take your money!! The 2nd edition php came out I think in 1989 and the revised in 1994 with just some different drawings and few rules changed. Yep, this didn't make me particularly happy as well. However, the 3.5 SRD is available online. We just took the changes we liked and now play our own 3.25 game. You don't have to play the newest edition you know. Play 2ed it you want, nobody is stopping you. The same company that publishes D&D (Hasbro) also produses Lego. These are some arguments that came to my mind the time I was writting the post so it may be more. Wizards of the Toast burned AD&D I am a friend of Tsipaf So..what's your point. There are companies out there that make tons of different products, does that make them bad companies or bad products...??? On a final note: If you don't like it, don't play it!
Crystal Monk 09-05-05, 09:44 AM	It is not very hard 4 an average player, if he has played the 2nd and 3rd, to distinguish which is better. "better" is completely based on perspective and opinion. however, most people who've played both editions have had the opinion that 3E and 3.5E are more fun than the previous editions. First the 3rd specialize the char. to hack & slash with all the feats and powers that were optional in the 2nd rather than make him role playing by converstation and skills. first, the "Skills and Powers" option book in 2E was horribly unbalanced. you could create a cleric with wizard spells, fighter weapon proficiencies, and thief skills, simply by giving up some spheres of cleric spells that had little use in the first place. second, the feats allow for a great deal of character customization that 2E couldn't even come close to. in 2E, what was there to separate two different fighters? only their choice of weapons. in 3/3.5E, you can use feats to specialize your character in dozens of different ways. for example, the fighter in my old group used feats like Dodge, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and so forth to create a DEX-based fighter who dashed around the battlefield wearing light armor. such a character wouldn't have been viable in 2E, as there was no point to fighters wearing light armor because heavy armor granted a better AC and let them have their full DEX bonus, which was ridiculous. third, how does the inclusion of feats make it so you don't have to roleplay? that makes no sense at all. nothing in the rules will ever prevent someone from roleplaying their character. also, skills? 3/3.5E's skill system is a great deal more versatile and more useful than 2E's "nonweapon proficiency" system. now characters can actually branch out into things they normally couldn't do, which wasn't possible in 2E. more flexibility and more options for a character will usually lead to better roleplaying, because it frees you from restrictions. No class restrictions, how can a gay elf or worst a hafling become a paladin. Before a heroic battle the paladin makes a speech but in last rows cannot see him( hafling or dwarf). Worst is a barbarian gnome he fights with his nose and the opponents die from laughter. First, use of the word "gay" on these boards as an insult is not allowed; I've seen that stated by the moderators. please don't use it like that - I'm sure you wouldn't like it if a gay person said something was "straight" as an insult. Second, you ask how an elf or a halfling can become a paladin. I ask, what is there to prevent them from doing so? there were never any reasons given in 2E as to why the race-class restrictions existed. why, for example, were the nature-loving elves prevented from becoming druids? I don't see how that makes any sense. removing the race-class restrictions makes it so people can play the kind of character they want to play, which leads to a better time had by all. How can a Php have a chapter for deities when each world has its own. The new players will think that this are the only ones. well, most D&D worlds have their own set of deities. just because they're in the PHB doesn't mean that they're the only ones. if a player's short-sighted enough to think that and not ask their DM about gods, well, that's not the book's fault. If a lvl 1 char. kills a beast of CR 26 (like Bard in The Hobbit) there is no explanation for the Xps He is going to earn. if a level 1 character kills a beast of CR 26, then there's something wrong, as specifically stated in the DMG, page 38. an example from a book is irrelevant in a discussion of D&D rules. A human can be a 1 lvl barbarian then take a lvl 1 wizzard and then 1 lvl druid. yes. it's called "learning new things." it happens in real life too - people jump around in interests, jobs, and so forth. I don't think multiclassing like that is a great idea in the game, but there shouldn't be rules to prevent it, and I'm glad there aren't. Also d20 system f****d the rpgs that had a system of their own and now they had to adopt it.(critical hit in Call Of Cthullu you meet Cthullu and score a critical. The game had the best role play and combat system ever). yes, and because a new edition of a game comes out, you're automatically required to adopt it even if you don't want to. :rolleyes: The revised edition came only about two years after the release of the 3rd edition. Didn't they make tests of whether the php is complete or broken. The just tried to take your money!! The 2nd edition php came out I think in 1989 and the revised in 1994 with just some different drawings and few rules changed. actually, it was three years later - 3E came out in 2000, 3.5E in 2003. as for the money thing, you can make this argument as much as you want, but the fact is they put out the new edition after getting responses from fans and so forth. some people felt parts of 3E were broken, 3.5E was made to fix that, as well as clear up other issues. not everyone liked all the changes, and there are still 3E players out there, but I don't believe it was completely a money grab. The same company that publishes D&D (Hasbro) also produses Lego. utterly irrelevant.
Escef 09-05-05, 09:47 AM	I reported this thread as blatant trolling before Jokotoko even finished his post. Junk like this doesn't deserve responses, just let it die in obscurity.
obrysii 09-05-05, 09:52 AM	If you're going to be posting this sort of anti-Wizards of the Coast/3ed DnD... 1. Use decent english. "u" "y" "4" are not words. They are spelled "you" "why?" "for." Note that it is only two additional characters (except for "why?" which includes a third additional character). 2. You should at least do it on a message board not owned by the company you're decrying. With that sort of writing, you'll only get laughed at.
skathros 09-05-05, 09:55 AM	plus, you're not allowed to go against the grain here at WotC. If it ain't WotC-worship, it'll get locked...differing views will not be tolerated :rolleyes:
babysamurai 09-05-05, 10:10 AM	Well, the reason for the poor grammar is that I think the person is Greek. No one has to respond to this persons opinion, and Escef, stop running to mommy ever time someone posts something that you don't agree with.
Escef 09-05-05, 10:17 AM	No one has to respond to this persons opinion, and Escef, stop running to mommy ever time someone posts something that you don't agree with. This coming from a self-admitted baby? :smirk: The man's entire post is nothing but trolling, which is against the CoC. Read it sometime. I just wanted to draw the WizO's attention to it. Coincidentally, your post is also flaming and/or baiting, but I'm not going to report it. The WizO's will see it anyway, and then decide if it's worth action.
babysamurai 09-05-05, 10:19 AM	This coming from a self-admitted baby? :smirk: The man's entire post is nothing but trolling, which is against the CoC. Read it sometime. I just wanted to draw the WizO's attention to it. Coincidentally, your post is also flaming and/or baiting, but I'm not going to report it. The WizO's will see it anyway, and then decide if it's worth action. Relax, kid.
Escef 09-05-05, 10:22 AM	Relax, kid. Who you calling "kid", punk? :turkey:
babysamurai 09-05-05, 10:28 AM	Who you calling "kid", punk? :turkey: Don't worry about it.
Escef 09-05-05, 10:33 AM	Who said I was worried? You assume too much.
Escef 09-05-05, 10:43 AM	The same company that publishes D&D (Hasbro) also produses Lego. Coincidentally, this is just plain untrue. Hasbro has licensed the usage of the Transformers name and some characters to The LEGO Group for their usage, but other than this, the companies really have nothing to do with each other.
BeyondFated 09-05-05, 10:47 AM	This is by far the most intellectual post and subsequent side conversation ever. Period. Dot dot dot... exclamation point!
The Almighty Dru 09-05-05, 10:51 AM	*Agrees with everything already stated by other posters* Just one thing though... Second, you ask how an elf or a halfling can become a paladin. I ask, what is there to prevent them from doing so? there were never any reasons given in 2E as to why the race-class restrictions existed. why, for example, were the nature-loving elves prevented from becoming druids? I don't see how that makes any sense. removing the race-class restrictions makes it so people can play the kind of character they want to play, which leads to a better time had by all. They actually did give reasons for why nonhumans couldn't be paladins or druids. It was stated that the druid was a human belief and that paladins were based off the human basis of good, and that other races may not have the same views. It was still silly, though. Why couldn't a nonhuman raised by humans believe in human things? And plus, the whole relative approach to good/evil they based the paladin argument on would screw up the whole game, since nothing could be "truely" good or evil. While unrealistic in some sense (fantasy?!?!), the 3e version of definate good/evil is better for the mechanics. Just thought I'd say that. And to the OP: If you say you are a friend of the person whose account you're using to post, you're not doing him/her any favors by trolling under their name.
ORC_Paradox 09-05-05, 11:22 AM	plus, you're not allowed to go against the grain here at WotC. If it ain't WotC-worship, it'll get locked...differing views will not be tolerated :rolleyes: Wrong. It would be nice if people did treat this as a fan site rather than a bashing site. I don't like psionics. But lookie there! All those psionic threads on the psionic board are open and not clicked because of my differing view. THIS thread is clicked for trolling and flaming.