3rd Edition? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3rd Edition? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Syn316
04-29-05, 05:01 AM I'm not to sure what version is what but was wondering a few things.
1. I have played origional D&D, 2nd version D&D. what is v3.0 and v3.5? 3rd Edition(d20) and a revision?

2. Do you have to relearn the whole ruleset when you goto the 3rd edition(d20 rules)? What stays the same?

3. If question #2 applies.... Is it a good ruleset? Or is it what you make of it?

4. I have tonnes of 2nd edition books, can they be easily converted into d20 (which ever that is)?

Thanks in advance.
Asciiman
04-29-05, 05:47 AM Okay I'll try to answer them the best I can.

1. Just as things changed from the original D&D and 2nd Edition, things have changed yet again in 3.x. D20 is just the dice system it uses. You see the Open Gaming License(OGL), allows any third party company aside from Wizards of the Coast, to make D&D books without paying royalties. The premise is that by opening it up, the beneft the game will gain will be massive from a larger player base being supported and more material.

2. Essentially yeah. The change from 1st edition to 2nd edition was relatively minor. It was indeed different, but it wasn't ground breaking. The change from 2nd edition to 3.x is massive. It is a whole new game, but the basics are the same, or under a differnt name. Spell Levels, alignment and the role of classes should seem familiar, but they are different. Trust me though when I say that learning 3.x is FAR more intuative then any previous edition and it shouldn't take too much time to do it.

3. Simply put, this is the best D&D ever made. Many may disagree with me, but many, MANY more will agree with me. It is a good ruleset, but not perfect. It does what it is supposed to(high Fantasy with high magic) do, well.

4. The mechanics and stats will be next to useless and only an advanced knowledge of both systems would allow you to effectively switch over the rules. However the "fluff" material is very much useful. Things like sourcebooks for the Forgotten Realms, or militant group discriptions will be supremely helpful, as you can use this stuff since it never went out of style.

All this being said, take a look at the SRD(system resource document), the game rules for free essentially, and learn how a few things work, then if you are still interested pick up a handbook and go from there.

And remember, D&D 3.x had to come along, stagnation leads only to death and growth is a necessity of all life.
JStegmaier
04-29-05, 05:56 AM I'm not to sure what version is what but was wondering a few things.
1. I have played origional D&D, 2nd version D&D. what is v3.0 and v3.5? 3rd Edition(d20) and a revision?

2. Do you have to relearn the whole ruleset when you goto the 3rd edition(d20 rules)? What stays the same?

3. If question #2 applies.... Is it a good ruleset? Or is it what you make of it?

4. I have tonnes of 2nd edition books, can they be easily converted into d20 (which ever that is)?

Thanks in advance.

1. Third Edition is the original d20 version of D&D. 3.5 was a ruleset that came out about 5 years (I think) after the original release of 3rd Edition, to improve various aspects of the original rules. All new books are 3.5, though they are nominally compatible with 3.0. I personally believe 3.5 was a very good improvement and would reccomend using that, but others may disagree.

2. Well, the basic premises stay the same, I think, though in the rules has changed. It wasn't hard for me to convert from AD&D to 3rd, then to 3.5, though the amount of changes are too numerous to list here... For a few:
* You want all dice rolls to be high, instead of the some-high-some-low system of AD&D Instead of rolling under your score for an ability check, now you have ability modifiers that you add to your roll to overcome a Difficulty Class, a number based on how hard the task is you're trying to complete.
* THAC0 is gone, replaced with base attack bonuses, which, actually, is pretty much the same thing, only in reverse--where you'd have a THAC0 of 19 in AD&D, you have a base attack bonus of +1 in 3.5. You'd still need a 9 to hit an AC of 10 either way.
* On that topic, AC has been reversed--the higher you are, the better. So, unlike AD&D, where a 19 would let you hit a AC of 0 with a 19 THAC0, in 3.5, you'd need a 19 to hit an AC 20 with a base attack bonus of +1. Also, there's no limit to how good it can get, as far as I know.
* The entire proficiencies system has been completely replaced by skills and feats--this makes character creation and leveling more complicated and adds more rules, but also simplifies many situations. Instead of taking a Swimming nonweapon proficiency, you put skill points in the Swim skill, which makes it easier for you to swim.
* Plenty of other things change as well, and some stay the same--alignment and spells, for instance, have stayed basically the same (though clerics now get up to 9th level spells, and there are "spontaneous" casters. As I said, it was a pretty easy conversion for me and the others I played with. Sitting down and reading through the rules once or twice, since you already have a grasp on how the basic game is played should be good to give you a fair understanding at least.

3. I believe it is an awesome ruleset. Like the other editions of the game, it focuses mostly on combat, but as a 2nd Edition player, I'm sure that's mostly what you expect. It gives more rules for non-combat situations than previous editions, I believe, but, still, it's no World of Darkness in terms of rules for social interaction.

4. I would say they can be converted... But easily? I have many, many 2nd Edition books also, but I haven't had much time to do any converting. To me, it's not really worth it, as much of it has been redone by Wizards or other publishers already. If you don't have access to/money to buy many 3/3.5 Edition books, then maybe you'd want to take the time to do that, but it's harder than simply looking in the old book and immediately knowing how it would work under the d20 rules for most people, especially those new to the system. That said, the flavor text of those books can be very useful, as most 3/3.5 books focus on the rules.
Syn316
04-29-05, 12:49 PM Thanks for the responses.

As for the "non-cobat situations" I'm assuming stuff like bluff and what not. Good to have a bit more clarity for players.

So with tonne of new feats and such, as a Gm do you let the players figure it out? Or do you "as a GM" do the math? I always let my players do what they wanted as long as they could prove it was possible within the rules. (have fun, and "in real..blah blah" being excused.) So Guess what I'm asking is as a GM, Do I need to know it all, or can I let my players +/- themselves (I forgot!! not being an option) and still have a good game? Or do I have to know it all?
Ath'kethin
04-29-05, 06:38 PM As a DM, you are always better off knowing all of the rules. It makes everyone's life easier.

That being said, you can let your players help, but you want to become as familiar as you can with the d20 system, especially if you're coming over from 2e. The changes are substantial, and while the new system is very intuitive and easy o learn, it will still require a bit of a rewiring in your brain to completely change over.

And in response to a comment made above: the system doesn't "focus primarily on combat" as much as prior editions, it just seems that way because you use a single dice mechanic for everything, including combat. They also revamped the experince system so it accounts for some creatures becoming less challenging as you go up in level, and allowing for more non-combat solutions to problems.
weasel fierce
04-30-05, 01:50 AM 1. I have played origional D&D, 2nd version D&D. what is v3.0 and v3.5? 3rd Edition(d20) and a revision?

3.0 is the oddly named third edition of the game. It is not an actual new edition of anything, as much as a completely new D&D game. The name is just for marketing and recognition value. Its completely new though. 3.5 was the release when WOTC realized that
A: We dont make enough money, so lets re-release all our books
B: We screwed up, so lets release a better product

Depend on the individual conspiracy theorist, the answer can be either or both.

2. Do you have to relearn the whole ruleset when you goto the 3rd edition(d20 rules)? What stays the same?
I think its safe to say that everything has changed. There are superficial similarities, but even when something looks the same way, its handled differently, or there is a different philosophy

3. If question #2 applies.... Is it a good ruleset? Or is it what you make of it?

Eye of the beholder.
I cant stand it, as it is pretty much the opposite of what I want in a fantasy roleplay game, and manages to improve virtually nothing of AD&D1, while ruining most of its features. It also shows a beautifull lack of understanding of the game, from the writers part, in my opinion. Others obviously disagree, and thats their prerogative. I dont want to start an edition war, so any parties who feel its important enough to get offended over can PM me, and I'll be able to explain my views.
I think everyone can agree that its very different, nad the best way to find out for your self, is to try it, and see if its something you like, or not. Obviously many do, so maybe its for you too.

4. I have tonnes of 2nd edition books, can they be easily converted into d20 (which ever that is)?
Ideas, campaigns and adventures can be used with modification, rules and other info is virtually impossible to translate. You are better off replacing those with the D20 equivalents instead. Conversion guides exist, but they are rarely worth the bother and work. Just convert on the fly, as the systems use different standards of measurement for many things.

Give it a shot, and see what its like.
Syn316
04-30-05, 07:58 AM I plan on learning as much as I can. Just being preassured to start a new game. and I was given a few books. guess they are 3.5. Kindo of looked at them, never really did. We have been playing 2nd for about 7 years. All my players and myself can spit rules out "on the fly". I was going to try 3rd or 3.5 to see if it was a better system. Ad&d has advantages over D&D. thought it might have been the same here. But sounds like a few good ideas, to remake Ad&d. Some good some bad. Guess it's time I read a bit and made some "table rules".

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate your responses, I'm going to try this 3.5 stuff, and see how it goes. I'll rewire, and who knows might work. if my players wanna do it.

One last question, I might have missed proficiencies somewhere...are there still class limitations for weapon and non? Or is it now based on a stat?
Neerie
04-30-05, 08:57 AM One last question, I might have missed proficiencies somewhere...are there still class limitations for weapon and non? Or is it now based on a stat?
Proficiencies became skills and feats. You now put ranks in skills to become better at doing stuff (like swimming, searching, hiding...) and you use feats to give some unique abilities to your character, and that's where you get weapon proficiencies (among other things). Some classes are automatically proficient with certain weapons/armors, in other, you'll have to spend a feat slot to become proficient with some types of weapons/armors.

Hope that helps!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Syn316 04-29-05, 05:01 AM	I'm not to sure what version is what but was wondering a few things. 1. I have played origional D&D, 2nd version D&D. what is v3.0 and v3.5? 3rd Edition(d20) and a revision? 2. Do you have to relearn the whole ruleset when you goto the 3rd edition(d20 rules)? What stays the same? 3. If question #2 applies.... Is it a good ruleset? Or is it what you make of it? 4. I have tonnes of 2nd edition books, can they be easily converted into d20 (which ever that is)? Thanks in advance.
Asciiman 04-29-05, 05:47 AM	Okay I'll try to answer them the best I can. 1. Just as things changed from the original D&D and 2nd Edition, things have changed yet again in 3.x. D20 is just the dice system it uses. You see the Open Gaming License(OGL), allows any third party company aside from Wizards of the Coast, to make D&D books without paying royalties. The premise is that by opening it up, the beneft the game will gain will be massive from a larger player base being supported and more material. 2. Essentially yeah. The change from 1st edition to 2nd edition was relatively minor. It was indeed different, but it wasn't ground breaking. The change from 2nd edition to 3.x is massive. It is a whole new game, but the basics are the same, or under a differnt name. Spell Levels, alignment and the role of classes should seem familiar, but they are different. Trust me though when I say that learning 3.x is FAR more intuative then any previous edition and it shouldn't take too much time to do it. 3. Simply put, this is the best D&D ever made. Many may disagree with me, but many, MANY more will agree with me. It is a good ruleset, but not perfect. It does what it is supposed to(high Fantasy with high magic) do, well. 4. The mechanics and stats will be next to useless and only an advanced knowledge of both systems would allow you to effectively switch over the rules. However the "fluff" material is very much useful. Things like sourcebooks for the Forgotten Realms, or militant group discriptions will be supremely helpful, as you can use this stuff since it never went out of style. All this being said, take a look at the SRD(system resource document), the game rules for free essentially, and learn how a few things work, then if you are still interested pick up a handbook and go from there. And remember, D&D 3.x had to come along, stagnation leads only to death and growth is a necessity of all life.
JStegmaier 04-29-05, 05:56 AM	I'm not to sure what version is what but was wondering a few things. 1. I have played origional D&D, 2nd version D&D. what is v3.0 and v3.5? 3rd Edition(d20) and a revision? 2. Do you have to relearn the whole ruleset when you goto the 3rd edition(d20 rules)? What stays the same? 3. If question #2 applies.... Is it a good ruleset? Or is it what you make of it? 4. I have tonnes of 2nd edition books, can they be easily converted into d20 (which ever that is)? Thanks in advance. 1. Third Edition is the original d20 version of D&D. 3.5 was a ruleset that came out about 5 years (I think) after the original release of 3rd Edition, to improve various aspects of the original rules. All new books are 3.5, though they are nominally compatible with 3.0. I personally believe 3.5 was a very good improvement and would reccomend using that, but others may disagree. 2. Well, the basic premises stay the same, I think, though in the rules has changed. It wasn't hard for me to convert from AD&D to 3rd, then to 3.5, though the amount of changes are too numerous to list here... For a few: * You want all dice rolls to be high, instead of the some-high-some-low system of AD&D Instead of rolling under your score for an ability check, now you have ability modifiers that you add to your roll to overcome a Difficulty Class, a number based on how hard the task is you're trying to complete. * THAC0 is gone, replaced with base attack bonuses, which, actually, is pretty much the same thing, only in reverse--where you'd have a THAC0 of 19 in AD&D, you have a base attack bonus of +1 in 3.5. You'd still need a 9 to hit an AC of 10 either way. * On that topic, AC has been reversed--the higher you are, the better. So, unlike AD&D, where a 19 would let you hit a AC of 0 with a 19 THAC0, in 3.5, you'd need a 19 to hit an AC 20 with a base attack bonus of +1. Also, there's no limit to how good it can get, as far as I know. * The entire proficiencies system has been completely replaced by skills and feats--this makes character creation and leveling more complicated and adds more rules, but also simplifies many situations. Instead of taking a Swimming nonweapon proficiency, you put skill points in the Swim skill, which makes it easier for you to swim. * Plenty of other things change as well, and some stay the same--alignment and spells, for instance, have stayed basically the same (though clerics now get up to 9th level spells, and there are "spontaneous" casters. As I said, it was a pretty easy conversion for me and the others I played with. Sitting down and reading through the rules once or twice, since you already have a grasp on how the basic game is played should be good to give you a fair understanding at least. 3. I believe it is an awesome ruleset. Like the other editions of the game, it focuses mostly on combat, but as a 2nd Edition player, I'm sure that's mostly what you expect. It gives more rules for non-combat situations than previous editions, I believe, but, still, it's no World of Darkness in terms of rules for social interaction. 4. I would say they can be converted... But easily? I have many, many 2nd Edition books also, but I haven't had much time to do any converting. To me, it's not really worth it, as much of it has been redone by Wizards or other publishers already. If you don't have access to/money to buy many 3/3.5 Edition books, then maybe you'd want to take the time to do that, but it's harder than simply looking in the old book and immediately knowing how it would work under the d20 rules for most people, especially those new to the system. That said, the flavor text of those books can be very useful, as most 3/3.5 books focus on the rules.
Syn316 04-29-05, 12:49 PM	Thanks for the responses. As for the "non-cobat situations" I'm assuming stuff like bluff and what not. Good to have a bit more clarity for players. So with tonne of new feats and such, as a Gm do you let the players figure it out? Or do you "as a GM" do the math? I always let my players do what they wanted as long as they could prove it was possible within the rules. (have fun, and "in real..blah blah" being excused.) So Guess what I'm asking is as a GM, Do I need to know it all, or can I let my players +/- themselves (I forgot!! not being an option) and still have a good game? Or do I have to know it all?
Ath'kethin 04-29-05, 06:38 PM	As a DM, you are always better off knowing all of the rules. It makes everyone's life easier. That being said, you can let your players help, but you want to become as familiar as you can with the d20 system, especially if you're coming over from 2e. The changes are substantial, and while the new system is very intuitive and easy o learn, it will still require a bit of a rewiring in your brain to completely change over. And in response to a comment made above: the system doesn't "focus primarily on combat" as much as prior editions, it just seems that way because you use a single dice mechanic for everything, including combat. They also revamped the experince system so it accounts for some creatures becoming less challenging as you go up in level, and allowing for more non-combat solutions to problems.
weasel fierce 04-30-05, 01:50 AM	1. I have played origional D&D, 2nd version D&D. what is v3.0 and v3.5? 3rd Edition(d20) and a revision? 3.0 is the oddly named third edition of the game. It is not an actual new edition of anything, as much as a completely new D&D game. The name is just for marketing and recognition value. Its completely new though. 3.5 was the release when WOTC realized that A: We dont make enough money, so lets re-release all our books B: We screwed up, so lets release a better product Depend on the individual conspiracy theorist, the answer can be either or both. 2. Do you have to relearn the whole ruleset when you goto the 3rd edition(d20 rules)? What stays the same? I think its safe to say that everything has changed. There are superficial similarities, but even when something looks the same way, its handled differently, or there is a different philosophy 3. If question #2 applies.... Is it a good ruleset? Or is it what you make of it? Eye of the beholder. I cant stand it, as it is pretty much the opposite of what I want in a fantasy roleplay game, and manages to improve virtually nothing of AD&D1, while ruining most of its features. It also shows a beautifull lack of understanding of the game, from the writers part, in my opinion. Others obviously disagree, and thats their prerogative. I dont want to start an edition war, so any parties who feel its important enough to get offended over can PM me, and I'll be able to explain my views. I think everyone can agree that its very different, nad the best way to find out for your self, is to try it, and see if its something you like, or not. Obviously many do, so maybe its for you too. 4. I have tonnes of 2nd edition books, can they be easily converted into d20 (which ever that is)? Ideas, campaigns and adventures can be used with modification, rules and other info is virtually impossible to translate. You are better off replacing those with the D20 equivalents instead. Conversion guides exist, but they are rarely worth the bother and work. Just convert on the fly, as the systems use different standards of measurement for many things. Give it a shot, and see what its like.
Syn316 04-30-05, 07:58 AM	I plan on learning as much as I can. Just being preassured to start a new game. and I was given a few books. guess they are 3.5. Kindo of looked at them, never really did. We have been playing 2nd for about 7 years. All my players and myself can spit rules out "on the fly". I was going to try 3rd or 3.5 to see if it was a better system. Ad&d has advantages over D&D. thought it might have been the same here. But sounds like a few good ideas, to remake Ad&d. Some good some bad. Guess it's time I read a bit and made some "table rules". Thanks again everyone. I appreciate your responses, I'm going to try this 3.5 stuff, and see how it goes. I'll rewire, and who knows might work. if my players wanna do it. One last question, I might have missed proficiencies somewhere...are there still class limitations for weapon and non? Or is it now based on a stat?
Neerie 04-30-05, 08:57 AM	One last question, I might have missed proficiencies somewhere...are there still class limitations for weapon and non? Or is it now based on a stat? Proficiencies became skills and feats. You now put ranks in skills to become better at doing stuff (like swimming, searching, hiding...) and you use feats to give some unique abilities to your character, and that's where you get weapon proficiencies (among other things). Some classes are automatically proficient with certain weapons/armors, in other, you'll have to spend a feat slot to become proficient with some types of weapons/armors. Hope that helps!