4 Intelligence [Archive] - Wizards Community

4 Intelligence [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drood
08-01-06, 09:11 AM One of my party members, the group cleric, started with an 8 intelligence. Unfortunately, a recent run-in with a Deck of Many Things has dropped him to a 4.

What does this entail?
How would you roleplay a 4 intelligence? Can he speak clearly? Can he still read/write?
His wisdom is high and his charisma is average (12). How would you describe a character like this?
His diety is the god of vengeance ( can't remember the name off hand).
Cannon_Fodder
08-01-06, 09:37 AM With a 4 Intelligence, he is barely able to function. He would know a few simple (one or two syllable) words, but would not be able to read or write. With a high Wisdom score, he would be able to perceive things and go along with his gut instinct. A score of 3 is just above animal intelligence. It'd probably take him a long time to actually communicate. The god of Vengeance is St. Cuthbert, I believe.

I'd describe him as a very in-tune simpleton, doing the same routine day after day. Almost like Tarzan.
Wargamer
08-01-06, 09:46 AM Absolute veg-head. Play him as if he were a dog... no, scratch that, play him as if he were a hamster!
Drood
08-01-06, 10:12 AM He wouldn't be gullible though, right? Because he is wise, just not smart.

Maybe he should act like an NBA player.
KirkBb
08-01-06, 10:19 AM I think I read somewhere that every point of int equals 10 IQ points, so that character has an IQ of 40, and IIRC in the real world, 70 IQ points is when your officially mentally retarded. So this guy is incredibly stupid, maybe, if you were able to combine the thinking power of a couple dogs, it would be as smart as he is.
Grod_The_Giant
08-01-06, 10:40 AM no, no. I think my dog alone could outthink this guy.
illiterate
08-01-06, 10:56 AM I'd describe him as a very in-tune simpleton, doing the same routine day after day. Almost like Tarzan.

RTFB, dude. Tarzan was far from a simpleton.

as far as 4 int goes, that would be a tremendous RP challenge. A very animalistic level. More like a very smart beast than a stupid human.
WayneTheGame
08-01-06, 11:08 AM RTFB, dude. Tarzan was far from a simpleton.

as far as 4 int goes, that would be a tremendous RP challenge. A very animalistic level. More like a very smart beast than a stupid human.

So... Homer Simpson? "Either a below-average human, or a brilliant beast."
Sulaco
08-01-06, 11:19 AM One of my party members, the group cleric, started with an 8 intelligence. Unfortunately, a recent run-in with a Deck of Many Things has dropped him to a 4.

What does this entail?
How would you roleplay a 4 intelligence? Can he speak clearly? Can he still read/write?
His wisdom is high and his charisma is average (12). How would you describe a character like this?
His diety is the god of vengeance ( can't remember the name off hand).

Two words: Rain man.
SeptimusMagistos
08-01-06, 11:21 AM A character with 4 intelligence would be able to speak, but only very slowly. He is apt to react instinctively and impulsively. He'd probably have good instincts and be lovable because of his ability to blurt out the right thing at the right time for all the wrong reasons.
Seeker95
08-01-06, 11:33 AM He is wise enough to know drooling is bad social form.
He is not smart enough to know how to stop drooling.
dokesa
08-01-06, 11:34 AM If you roll NPCs using 3d6 without rerolls, his IQ would be 2.2 standard deviations below average, or about the high 60s for most IQ tests. For a comparison, Forrest Gump's IQ was 75.
AT-AT Assault
08-01-06, 11:38 AM Two words: Rain man.Wouldnt that be the reverse situation? Rain Man, IMO, seemed to have an absurdly high intelligence, but extremly low Wis and Cha (Wis for not having many jugdement facalties, Cha for not being able to interact with the outside world to any appreciable degree).
savant_warlord13
08-01-06, 11:41 AM If you have MMIV, Whitespawn hordelings have 4 intelligence, and they sometimes have clerics.

More importantly, why is his wisdom score 12?
Drood
08-01-06, 11:51 AM If you have MMIV, Whitespawn hordelings have 4 intelligence, and they sometimes have clerics.

More importantly, why is his wisdom score 12?

His Charisma is 12. His Wisdom is 18 or 19 I believe.
Drood
08-01-06, 11:53 AM So... Homer Simpson? "Either a below-average human, or a brilliant beast."

I'm sure we can all agree that Homer Simpson has low scores in all of his mental attributes. His wisdom must be under 5.
Drood
08-01-06, 11:57 AM Ok.

So he can't read or write.
He only knows simple words and none over 2 syllables.
Thinks and speaks slowly.
Cannot speak anything but common (he's human).
Extremely short memory.
Does not understand any complex ideas.

Anything else you might suggest?
Sulaco
08-01-06, 12:11 PM Wouldnt that be the reverse situation? Rain Man, IMO, seemed to have an absurdly high intelligence, but extremly low Wis and Cha (Wis for not having many jugdement facalties, Cha for not being able to interact with the outside world to any appreciable degree).

Okay then, three words: not Rain Man. ;)

You are right, of course, I was kinda thinking bass-ackwards on that one.
Some_call_me_Tim
08-01-06, 12:20 PM I think I read somewhere that every point of int equals 10 IQ points, so that character has an IQ of 40, and IIRC in the real world, 70 IQ points is when your officially mentally retarded. So this guy is incredibly stupid, maybe, if you were able to combine the thinking power of a couple dogs, it would be as smart as he is.I know this was in the first edition rules, may have been repeated later.

If you roll NPCs using 3d6 without rerolls, his IQ would be 2.2 standard deviations below average, or about the high 60s for most IQ tests. For a comparison, Forrest Gump's IQ was 75.Using this method is probably most accurate, of course it requires something more than simple math.

In either case remember IQ based on (mental age)/(physical age). For simplicity, lets assume a twenty year old. An IQ of forty and he would act like an eight year old. An IQ of sixty-five and he would act thirteen. The official classifications are "Trainable Mentally Retarded" and "Educable Mentally Retarded"

I agree that he would be more Forrest Gump than Rain Man.
Raven Dark
08-01-06, 12:22 PM A creature with at least 3 Intelligence and a language can read and write (unless a barbarian).

In any case, his character suffered a terrible debilitating curse and was not born that way. Thus, he would not lose the languages he already knew.
Dragonteuthis
08-01-06, 12:27 PM The Player's handbooks likens his Intelligence to an Otyugh, Displacer Beast, or Griffon.

So, he's capable of cunning, but he simply doesn't know anything beyond what he can see, touch, and hear around him. He sees the hill, but doesn't know there's a town beyond it.

He's not necessarily illiterate, but obviously doesn't have a good vocabulary.

Think of all the Int-based skills. Appraise, Decipher Script, Craft, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search and Spellcraft. So he sucks at all those things; he knows nothing useful, can't make anything well, and simply can't figure out how to work devices.

However, take a gander at Wis-based skills. Heal, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival. He can be alert and empathic, and can perform tasks, including keeping himself alive very well.

The best way I can think of to describe it would be like a very, very intelligent dog. Low Int, high Wis is a hallmark of the animals anyways, so that's your best analogy.
Mystyc
08-01-06, 12:30 PM Ok.

So he can't read or write.
He only knows simple words and none over 2 syllables.
Thinks and speaks slowly.
Cannot speak anything but common (he's human).
Extremely short memory.
Does not understand any complex ideas.

Anything else you might suggest?
Actually, he will probably retain at least some of what he knew back when he had an 8 INT. He can probably read and write very simple sentences -- about "see Dick run" complexity -- and his own name. He will probably retain that ability in whatever languages he already knew, but he may frequently revert to Common mid-conversation, and his skill in other languages will eventually drop off.
AT-AT Assault
08-01-06, 12:33 PM A creature with at least 3 Intelligence and a language can read and write (unless a barbarian).

In any case, his character suffered a terrible debilitating curse and was not born that way. Thus, he would not lose the languages he already knew.A good point (that was apparently forgotten in this thread). The Cleric wasnt born with Int 4, but rather Int 8. I think an appropriate analagoy would be this: Go out and buy an $800 computer, Use it for a few months and fill up its Hardrive. Then take out its proccessor and RAM, and replace with the proccessor and RAM of a $400 computer. It still knows everything it knew beforehand, but now has difficulty using that knowledge.
Drood
08-01-06, 01:25 PM Ok.

Can still read and write in all his previous languages. However, this may be limited to small words and simple ideas ("see spot run").
Limited vocabulary.
Extremely short memory.
Very slow learner.
Has difficulty understanding anything but simple ideas/devices.
Still retains previous knowledge, but will have difficulty using it at the right times.
Not creative.
Very perceptive/aware.
Can perform normal tasks, especially ones he is familiar with (fighting, spellcasting, clerical duties).
May be even more faithful than before (blind faith).

Would he get frustrated easily?
Would he become reckless? Intelligence and defense seem to go together (thus combat expertise requiring intelligence).
BTW the feats he has taken focus on combat, as he does have an 18 strength.
Mystyc
08-01-06, 01:30 PM Would he get frustrated easily?
Would he become reckless? Intelligence and defense seem to go together (thus combat expertise requiring intelligence).
I could see him becoming frustrated when he now finds previously routine tasks more difficult (like writing). This would be a good roleplaying opportunity for the player, but it shouldn't warrant any (additional) in-game penalties or restrictions. He does still know how to fight and defend himself properly.
Araciel
08-01-06, 02:11 PM in my campaign, the DM would probably rule that this character's intelligence is so low that his deity has no more use for him and strips him of his cleric powers.....i need a new dm hahahah
Gedrin
08-01-06, 02:44 PM He's not smart enough to figure out what to say or often what to do.

He is wise enough to know he should probably be quiet, and that he should ask for help with some things.

I'm guessing he'll attach himself to a smarter character who is trustworthy and can act in his interest when needed.
DarkNick
08-01-06, 04:17 PM It all comes down to interpretation.
I don't think he would have trouble talking or communicating. Even stupid people can talk and make themselves understood. Dogs and cats can communicate in a very precise and sophisticated ways.

The way I would probably treat it is the intelligence would equate to academic ability and knowledge. His high wisdom equates to extremly good common sense and an instinctive understanding of behaviour. I would play the character as really practical, someone that acts intellegently. They might not use big words, have trouble reading, don't know much about places or things, can't count very well, and perhaps have a bad memory. But they would be good with people, be able to read them like a book. The would have a great understanding of people's feelings and know how to make people feel better of minipulate them. They arn't stupid, far from it. They just don't know much academic stuff and don't learn very well.
"I don't understand all them fancy words your saying about the po-li-tics and so on, but I can see that the king is in trouble because that fella over there wants his job. Perhaps if you gave him a bit more say in matters he would be mightly happy and stop causing trouble."
Lotus Crane
08-01-06, 04:42 PM no, no. I think my dog alone could outthink this guy.
Except according to D&D, dogs have an Intelligence of 2, and considering that any creature with an Intelligence of 3 or more is capable of learning, speaking, reading and writing a language (nowhere in the rules does it say that a half-orc or other character with an Int of 3 can't understand language normally), I think this cleric with an Intelligence of 4 is still several times smarter than your dog, in terms of his abstract thinking ability, logic and spatial skills, which is what Intelligence generally measures.

The cleric still has a Charisma of 12 and a Wisdom of 18+, and he used to have an Int of 8, and probably remembers a time when he was smarter than he is now. And you have to reconcile his low Int with his better than average Cha and extraordinary Wis (his common sense, intuition, and willpower are at the height of human possibility). He'd probably be more successful and endearing than say, Homer Simpson, who probably has all three of his mental ability scores in the 5-9 range.

I don't think that such a character would be a drooling idiot, be unable to realize that there's a town behind a hill, be unable to speak more than one or two words at a time, or be unable to have longterm memories, like the tenets of his religion, the name of his childhood sweetheart, or the smell of his mother's cooking. You're thinking Int 2 or more likely 1, coupled with a lower than average Wisdom and Charisma.

If anything, he would probably be terrible at math, science, spatial coordination, abstract or indirect thinking. He might speak more slowly or have a minor speech impediment like stuttering, and he might read and write more slowly or have a mild dyslexia. But based on his high Wis and decent Cha, I think it's safe to say that he'd choose to let his allies do most of the heavy thinking and talking, but insert a few carefully chosen sentences here and there, that might be filled with insights his more cerebral friends hadn't considered.
Sarella Starshine
08-01-06, 04:51 PM Rain Man and others like him are called idiot savants. They are a group of people for who the normal rules of intelligence and wisdom do not work. They are profoundly retarded in almost all areas of intelligence, except 1 or 2 (Rain Man's area was mathematics). Some cannot function normally in the real world, others can.

The nature of the idiot savant also makes it near impossible to classify them in the D&D versions of Int and Wis (how do you classify someone who can't get dressed, who can't remember names, yet can in a split second tell you the number of leaves on a tree?)

The best reference I can think of that would more accurately portray someone with a high Wisdom and a low Intelligence is Cashel from David Drake's Lord of the Isles series. He has a very keen instinct, he speaks very little, is very deliberate in his actions, knows people thinks he is stupid (sometimes he thinks that they are right, but he does not let that bother him), relies on his best freind (Garric) when it comes to thinking, etc. When he does speak, people that know him listen because they know he has the right solution.
ArcTan
08-01-06, 04:52 PM With a 4 Intelligence, he is barely able to function. He would know a few simple (one or two syllable) words, but would not be able to read or write. With a high Wisdom score, he would be able to perceive things and go along with his gut instinct. A score of 3 is just above animal intelligence. It'd probably take him a long time to actually communicate. The god of Vengeance is St. Cuthbert, I believe.

I'd describe him as a very in-tune simpleton, doing the same routine day after day. Almost like Tarzan.

Tarzan was very smart, actually, just uneducated.

You mean an archetype more like Thog from Order of the Stick.
Callahan
08-01-06, 04:53 PM Two words: Rain man.
isn't rain man the exact opposite?

High Int (math and basic knowladge) but low Wis.
Mystyc
08-01-06, 11:56 PM They arn't stupid, far from it. They just don't know much academic stuff and don't learn very well.
"I don't understand all them fancy words your saying about the po-li-tics and so on, but I can see that the king is in trouble because that fella over there wants his job. Perhaps if you gave him a bit more say in matters he would be mightly happy and stop causing trouble."
"Now I'm not a fancy big-city lawyer..."

[crowd gasps]
Whisper_Swiftblade
08-02-06, 02:46 AM Ok I don't think he can read (I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you need 6 int to read unless you are a barbarian) he can speak but wont remember the words he wants to use or will use the wrong ones

Wizard: we must now travel to the desert

Clearic: good me like pie.

he can't do math or tell time, but he knows when something is up and has plenty of common sence. I would think of him like a five year old, he might not be able to tell you what 10 x 7 is but he does know you are lieing when you tell him the answer is cow.
jhosmer
08-02-06, 09:47 AM A good example of how to play a low-Intelligence/high-Wisdom character might be Chance from the movie "Being There" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There) as played by Peter Sellers. He was a man who had very little contact with the real world until he was a grown man, and he became a powerful politician because people misinterpreted his simple mannerisms and sayings.

Play him as a simple man who seldom speaks, but when he does, it is to say something profound. Since his low intelligence means that he may have trouble understanding the world around him at times, he may spend a lot of time in prayer to his god. His high-wisdom will likely keep him from acting until he understands a situation. He might also choose another PC whom he trusts (maybe the party wizard) to tell him what to do tactically in a battle.

Just my 2 cents.
dokesa
08-02-06, 10:36 AM Ok I don't think he can read (I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you need 6 int to read unless you are a barbarian) he can speak but wont remember the words he wants to use or will use the wrong ones
Any character except a barbarian can read and write all the languages he or she speaks.
I haven't found anything to override that.

Even if you assume his IQ is 40, he is still literate. From what I can tell by reading mental retardation articles, an IQ of 40 is classified as trainable, meaning, among other things, that he would have the education level of a typical 2nd grader. He'll know about a third of the words that an average adult knows.
Whisper_Swiftblade
08-02-06, 10:38 AM two words

Forest Gump

he is not what you might call bright about most things, but he is wise enuf to use medefors conserning the nature of life it self and candy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drood 08-01-06, 09:11 AM	One of my party members, the group cleric, started with an 8 intelligence. Unfortunately, a recent run-in with a Deck of Many Things has dropped him to a 4. What does this entail? How would you roleplay a 4 intelligence? Can he speak clearly? Can he still read/write? His wisdom is high and his charisma is average (12). How would you describe a character like this? His diety is the god of vengeance ( can't remember the name off hand).
Cannon_Fodder 08-01-06, 09:37 AM	With a 4 Intelligence, he is barely able to function. He would know a few simple (one or two syllable) words, but would not be able to read or write. With a high Wisdom score, he would be able to perceive things and go along with his gut instinct. A score of 3 is just above animal intelligence. It'd probably take him a long time to actually communicate. The god of Vengeance is St. Cuthbert, I believe. I'd describe him as a very in-tune simpleton, doing the same routine day after day. Almost like Tarzan.
Wargamer 08-01-06, 09:46 AM	Absolute veg-head. Play him as if he were a dog... no, scratch that, play him as if he were a hamster!
Drood 08-01-06, 10:12 AM	He wouldn't be gullible though, right? Because he is wise, just not smart. Maybe he should act like an NBA player.
KirkBb 08-01-06, 10:19 AM	I think I read somewhere that every point of int equals 10 IQ points, so that character has an IQ of 40, and IIRC in the real world, 70 IQ points is when your officially mentally retarded. So this guy is incredibly stupid, maybe, if you were able to combine the thinking power of a couple dogs, it would be as smart as he is.
Grod_The_Giant 08-01-06, 10:40 AM	no, no. I think my dog alone could outthink this guy.
illiterate 08-01-06, 10:56 AM	I'd describe him as a very in-tune simpleton, doing the same routine day after day. Almost like Tarzan. RTFB, dude. Tarzan was far from a simpleton. as far as 4 int goes, that would be a tremendous RP challenge. A very animalistic level. More like a very smart beast than a stupid human.
WayneTheGame 08-01-06, 11:08 AM	RTFB, dude. Tarzan was far from a simpleton. as far as 4 int goes, that would be a tremendous RP challenge. A very animalistic level. More like a very smart beast than a stupid human. So... Homer Simpson? "Either a below-average human, or a brilliant beast."
Sulaco 08-01-06, 11:19 AM	One of my party members, the group cleric, started with an 8 intelligence. Unfortunately, a recent run-in with a Deck of Many Things has dropped him to a 4. What does this entail? How would you roleplay a 4 intelligence? Can he speak clearly? Can he still read/write? His wisdom is high and his charisma is average (12). How would you describe a character like this? His diety is the god of vengeance ( can't remember the name off hand). Two words: Rain man.
SeptimusMagistos 08-01-06, 11:21 AM	A character with 4 intelligence would be able to speak, but only very slowly. He is apt to react instinctively and impulsively. He'd probably have good instincts and be lovable because of his ability to blurt out the right thing at the right time for all the wrong reasons.
Seeker95 08-01-06, 11:33 AM	He is wise enough to know drooling is bad social form. He is not smart enough to know how to stop drooling.
dokesa 08-01-06, 11:34 AM	If you roll NPCs using 3d6 without rerolls, his IQ would be 2.2 standard deviations below average, or about the high 60s for most IQ tests. For a comparison, Forrest Gump's IQ was 75.
AT-AT Assault 08-01-06, 11:38 AM	Two words: Rain man.Wouldnt that be the reverse situation? Rain Man, IMO, seemed to have an absurdly high intelligence, but extremly low Wis and Cha (Wis for not having many jugdement facalties, Cha for not being able to interact with the outside world to any appreciable degree).
savant_warlord13 08-01-06, 11:41 AM	If you have MMIV, Whitespawn hordelings have 4 intelligence, and they sometimes have clerics. More importantly, why is his wisdom score 12?
Drood 08-01-06, 11:51 AM	If you have MMIV, Whitespawn hordelings have 4 intelligence, and they sometimes have clerics. More importantly, why is his wisdom score 12? His Charisma is 12. His Wisdom is 18 or 19 I believe.
Drood 08-01-06, 11:53 AM	So... Homer Simpson? "Either a below-average human, or a brilliant beast." I'm sure we can all agree that Homer Simpson has low scores in all of his mental attributes. His wisdom must be under 5.
Drood 08-01-06, 11:57 AM	Ok. So he can't read or write. He only knows simple words and none over 2 syllables. Thinks and speaks slowly. Cannot speak anything but common (he's human). Extremely short memory. Does not understand any complex ideas. Anything else you might suggest?
Sulaco 08-01-06, 12:11 PM	Wouldnt that be the reverse situation? Rain Man, IMO, seemed to have an absurdly high intelligence, but extremly low Wis and Cha (Wis for not having many jugdement facalties, Cha for not being able to interact with the outside world to any appreciable degree). Okay then, three words: not Rain Man. ;) You are right, of course, I was kinda thinking bass-ackwards on that one.
Some_call_me_Tim 08-01-06, 12:20 PM	I think I read somewhere that every point of int equals 10 IQ points, so that character has an IQ of 40, and IIRC in the real world, 70 IQ points is when your officially mentally retarded. So this guy is incredibly stupid, maybe, if you were able to combine the thinking power of a couple dogs, it would be as smart as he is.I know this was in the first edition rules, may have been repeated later. If you roll NPCs using 3d6 without rerolls, his IQ would be 2.2 standard deviations below average, or about the high 60s for most IQ tests. For a comparison, Forrest Gump's IQ was 75.Using this method is probably most accurate, of course it requires something more than simple math. In either case remember IQ based on (mental age)/(physical age). For simplicity, lets assume a twenty year old. An IQ of forty and he would act like an eight year old. An IQ of sixty-five and he would act thirteen. The official classifications are "Trainable Mentally Retarded" and "Educable Mentally Retarded" I agree that he would be more Forrest Gump than Rain Man.
Raven Dark 08-01-06, 12:22 PM	A creature with at least 3 Intelligence and a language can read and write (unless a barbarian). In any case, his character suffered a terrible debilitating curse and was not born that way. Thus, he would not lose the languages he already knew.
Dragonteuthis 08-01-06, 12:27 PM	The Player's handbooks likens his Intelligence to an Otyugh, Displacer Beast, or Griffon. So, he's capable of cunning, but he simply doesn't know anything beyond what he can see, touch, and hear around him. He sees the hill, but doesn't know there's a town beyond it. He's not necessarily illiterate, but obviously doesn't have a good vocabulary. Think of all the Int-based skills. Appraise, Decipher Script, Craft, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search and Spellcraft. So he sucks at all those things; he knows nothing useful, can't make anything well, and simply can't figure out how to work devices. However, take a gander at Wis-based skills. Heal, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival. He can be alert and empathic, and can perform tasks, including keeping himself alive very well. The best way I can think of to describe it would be like a very, very intelligent dog. Low Int, high Wis is a hallmark of the animals anyways, so that's your best analogy.
Mystyc 08-01-06, 12:30 PM	Ok. So he can't read or write. He only knows simple words and none over 2 syllables. Thinks and speaks slowly. Cannot speak anything but common (he's human). Extremely short memory. Does not understand any complex ideas. Anything else you might suggest? Actually, he will probably retain at least some of what he knew back when he had an 8 INT. He can probably read and write very simple sentences -- about "see Dick run" complexity -- and his own name. He will probably retain that ability in whatever languages he already knew, but he may frequently revert to Common mid-conversation, and his skill in other languages will eventually drop off.
AT-AT Assault 08-01-06, 12:33 PM	A creature with at least 3 Intelligence and a language can read and write (unless a barbarian). In any case, his character suffered a terrible debilitating curse and was not born that way. Thus, he would not lose the languages he already knew.A good point (that was apparently forgotten in this thread). The Cleric wasnt born with Int 4, but rather Int 8. I think an appropriate analagoy would be this: Go out and buy an $800 computer, Use it for a few months and fill up its Hardrive. Then take out its proccessor and RAM, and replace with the proccessor and RAM of a $400 computer. It still knows everything it knew beforehand, but now has difficulty using that knowledge.
Drood 08-01-06, 01:25 PM	Ok. Can still read and write in all his previous languages. However, this may be limited to small words and simple ideas ("see spot run"). Limited vocabulary. Extremely short memory. Very slow learner. Has difficulty understanding anything but simple ideas/devices. Still retains previous knowledge, but will have difficulty using it at the right times. Not creative. Very perceptive/aware. Can perform normal tasks, especially ones he is familiar with (fighting, spellcasting, clerical duties). May be even more faithful than before (blind faith). Would he get frustrated easily? Would he become reckless? Intelligence and defense seem to go together (thus combat expertise requiring intelligence). BTW the feats he has taken focus on combat, as he does have an 18 strength.
Mystyc 08-01-06, 01:30 PM	Would he get frustrated easily? Would he become reckless? Intelligence and defense seem to go together (thus combat expertise requiring intelligence). I could see him becoming frustrated when he now finds previously routine tasks more difficult (like writing). This would be a good roleplaying opportunity for the player, but it shouldn't warrant any (additional) in-game penalties or restrictions. He does still know how to fight and defend himself properly.
Araciel 08-01-06, 02:11 PM	in my campaign, the DM would probably rule that this character's intelligence is so low that his deity has no more use for him and strips him of his cleric powers.....i need a new dm hahahah
Gedrin 08-01-06, 02:44 PM	He's not smart enough to figure out what to say or often what to do. He is wise enough to know he should probably be quiet, and that he should ask for help with some things. I'm guessing he'll attach himself to a smarter character who is trustworthy and can act in his interest when needed.
DarkNick 08-01-06, 04:17 PM	It all comes down to interpretation. I don't think he would have trouble talking or communicating. Even stupid people can talk and make themselves understood. Dogs and cats can communicate in a very precise and sophisticated ways. The way I would probably treat it is the intelligence would equate to academic ability and knowledge. His high wisdom equates to extremly good common sense and an instinctive understanding of behaviour. I would play the character as really practical, someone that acts intellegently. They might not use big words, have trouble reading, don't know much about places or things, can't count very well, and perhaps have a bad memory. But they would be good with people, be able to read them like a book. The would have a great understanding of people's feelings and know how to make people feel better of minipulate them. They arn't stupid, far from it. They just don't know much academic stuff and don't learn very well. "I don't understand all them fancy words your saying about the po-li-tics and so on, but I can see that the king is in trouble because that fella over there wants his job. Perhaps if you gave him a bit more say in matters he would be mightly happy and stop causing trouble."
Lotus Crane 08-01-06, 04:42 PM	no, no. I think my dog alone could outthink this guy. Except according to D&D, dogs have an Intelligence of 2, and considering that any creature with an Intelligence of 3 or more is capable of learning, speaking, reading and writing a language (nowhere in the rules does it say that a half-orc or other character with an Int of 3 can't understand language normally), I think this cleric with an Intelligence of 4 is still several times smarter than your dog, in terms of his abstract thinking ability, logic and spatial skills, which is what Intelligence generally measures. The cleric still has a Charisma of 12 and a Wisdom of 18+, and he used to have an Int of 8, and probably remembers a time when he was smarter than he is now. And you have to reconcile his low Int with his better than average Cha and extraordinary Wis (his common sense, intuition, and willpower are at the height of human possibility). He'd probably be more successful and endearing than say, Homer Simpson, who probably has all three of his mental ability scores in the 5-9 range. I don't think that such a character would be a drooling idiot, be unable to realize that there's a town behind a hill, be unable to speak more than one or two words at a time, or be unable to have longterm memories, like the tenets of his religion, the name of his childhood sweetheart, or the smell of his mother's cooking. You're thinking Int 2 or more likely 1, coupled with a lower than average Wisdom and Charisma. If anything, he would probably be terrible at math, science, spatial coordination, abstract or indirect thinking. He might speak more slowly or have a minor speech impediment like stuttering, and he might read and write more slowly or have a mild dyslexia. But based on his high Wis and decent Cha, I think it's safe to say that he'd choose to let his allies do most of the heavy thinking and talking, but insert a few carefully chosen sentences here and there, that might be filled with insights his more cerebral friends hadn't considered.
Sarella Starshine 08-01-06, 04:51 PM	Rain Man and others like him are called idiot savants. They are a group of people for who the normal rules of intelligence and wisdom do not work. They are profoundly retarded in almost all areas of intelligence, except 1 or 2 (Rain Man's area was mathematics). Some cannot function normally in the real world, others can. The nature of the idiot savant also makes it near impossible to classify them in the D&D versions of Int and Wis (how do you classify someone who can't get dressed, who can't remember names, yet can in a split second tell you the number of leaves on a tree?) The best reference I can think of that would more accurately portray someone with a high Wisdom and a low Intelligence is Cashel from David Drake's Lord of the Isles series. He has a very keen instinct, he speaks very little, is very deliberate in his actions, knows people thinks he is stupid (sometimes he thinks that they are right, but he does not let that bother him), relies on his best freind (Garric) when it comes to thinking, etc. When he does speak, people that know him listen because they know he has the right solution.
ArcTan 08-01-06, 04:52 PM	With a 4 Intelligence, he is barely able to function. He would know a few simple (one or two syllable) words, but would not be able to read or write. With a high Wisdom score, he would be able to perceive things and go along with his gut instinct. A score of 3 is just above animal intelligence. It'd probably take him a long time to actually communicate. The god of Vengeance is St. Cuthbert, I believe. I'd describe him as a very in-tune simpleton, doing the same routine day after day. Almost like Tarzan. Tarzan was very smart, actually, just uneducated. You mean an archetype more like Thog from Order of the Stick.
Callahan 08-01-06, 04:53 PM	Two words: Rain man. isn't rain man the exact opposite? High Int (math and basic knowladge) but low Wis.
Mystyc 08-01-06, 11:56 PM	They arn't stupid, far from it. They just don't know much academic stuff and don't learn very well. "I don't understand all them fancy words your saying about the po-li-tics and so on, but I can see that the king is in trouble because that fella over there wants his job. Perhaps if you gave him a bit more say in matters he would be mightly happy and stop causing trouble." "Now I'm not a fancy big-city lawyer..." [crowd gasps]
Whisper_Swiftblade 08-02-06, 02:46 AM	Ok I don't think he can read (I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you need 6 int to read unless you are a barbarian) he can speak but wont remember the words he wants to use or will use the wrong ones Wizard: we must now travel to the desert Clearic: good me like pie. he can't do math or tell time, but he knows when something is up and has plenty of common sence. I would think of him like a five year old, he might not be able to tell you what 10 x 7 is but he does know you are lieing when you tell him the answer is cow.
jhosmer 08-02-06, 09:47 AM	A good example of how to play a low-Intelligence/high-Wisdom character might be Chance from the movie "Being There" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There) as played by Peter Sellers. He was a man who had very little contact with the real world until he was a grown man, and he became a powerful politician because people misinterpreted his simple mannerisms and sayings. Play him as a simple man who seldom speaks, but when he does, it is to say something profound. Since his low intelligence means that he may have trouble understanding the world around him at times, he may spend a lot of time in prayer to his god. His high-wisdom will likely keep him from acting until he understands a situation. He might also choose another PC whom he trusts (maybe the party wizard) to tell him what to do tactically in a battle. Just my 2 cents.
dokesa 08-02-06, 10:36 AM	Ok I don't think he can read (I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you need 6 int to read unless you are a barbarian) he can speak but wont remember the words he wants to use or will use the wrong ones Any character except a barbarian can read and write all the languages he or she speaks. I haven't found anything to override that. Even if you assume his IQ is 40, he is still literate. From what I can tell by reading mental retardation articles, an IQ of 40 is classified as trainable, meaning, among other things, that he would have the education level of a typical 2nd grader. He'll know about a third of the words that an average adult knows.
Whisper_Swiftblade 08-02-06, 10:38 AM	two words Forest Gump he is not what you might call bright about most things, but he is wise enuf to use medefors conserning the nature of life it self and candy.