Post/Author/DateTime	Post
__Slayer__ 01-13-06, 11:12 PM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think?
The Almighty Dru 01-13-06, 11:30 PM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ... No.
Wolfen Fenrison 01-13-06, 11:31 PM	hopefuly when pigs fly out of my but south for winter. look a new week and a new 4th ed thread. (Weeee!) :whatsthis I swear these threads are passive agressive flamebait and trolling rolled into a nice little package.
yeknom 01-13-06, 11:41 PM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think? Next Tuesday.
The 8th Samurai 01-13-06, 11:47 PM	Well if, and I stress if, they ever make 4.0 you know that when the word spreads people will ask "When will WotC make 5.0?" and every week there will be 1-5 threads asking when 5.0 will come out? in 2 years? 3? 4? Then if WotC makes 5.0 these same people will ask "When will WotC make 6.0?" Please stop the madness. Moderators come up with some standard answer and then lockup these threads.
Elven Doritos 01-13-06, 11:48 PM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think? Let me simplify the rhyme just to amplify the noise. There are already too many threads about 4e And, Pelor's sake, it's not currently In any sort of planning stage, you see So take a whiff of trollbait and set yourself free. The Boards truly are flooded with all sorts of Speculation and Wizards-Hate and not enough love Let's raise up, petition for an amendment to The Code of Conduct, so that we can all cool. --- PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG IF YOU WANT THE CODE OF CONDUCT TO BAN 4.0 SPECULATION THREADS!
Tyler Do'Urden 01-14-06, 12:47 AM	AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!Oh, you mean AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHRRRRGHGHHGHACK!!!
Pandaemoni 01-14-06, 12:56 AM	I agree ith the sentiment that WOTC screwed themselves on this one. They have only themselves to blame for the 4.0 threads and the cynicsm of the player base. They not only jumped from 3.0 to 3.5 entirely too fast, but they've now taken to publishing splat books (The Spells Compendium) that contain minor updates of stuff found in other (less than 2-year-old) splat books. What's next a feats and skills splat book? A splat book containing all the art from the other splat books? A splat book that provides an index of all the crap in the other splat books (that one I'd buy, a unified index would be great). Hey, they're a corporation, and gamers have more money than sense. If their marketing department thinks enough people will shell out and buy it, it is their duty to the Hasbro shareholders to publish 4.0
Edymnion 01-14-06, 01:03 AM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think?1) 2010-2011. D&D editions have always had a lifespan of 10-12 years. No reason yet to expect this one to be any differant. 2) Never say 4.0 again. 4e will likely come out at around the turn of the decade. By saying 4.0, you are implying that WotC is going to pull this x.5 bull:censored: again. I know a lot of people that really will boycott WotC if they even THINK of doing something that stupid again. Honestly, if 4e comes out before 2010, I'll be miffed. If I ever see 4.5, I'm officially never buying another WotC product again for as long as I live, and I'll do my damndest to make sure as many people as I can get will boycott them as well. That will be proof positive that WotC doesn't give a damn about D&D players, and just wants to milk us for every last cent they can get their greedy little hands on. 4e coming out in 2009 I could live with. I'd be upset, and they'd hear about it, but eventually I could let it slide. 4.5 and I'd be starting up letter writing campaigns, boycotts, and everything else I could think of.
Andrew_980 01-14-06, 01:29 AM	It is inevitable and will happen when it does.
I_Strahd 01-14-06, 01:29 AM	i like this thread. it gets peoples blood hot. "i fear change.". the thread is valid. but if you dont want it just dont reply. or maybe reply to the thread in a way that tells WOtC that you dont want it. :embarrass
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 01-14-06, 01:33 AM	Honestly, if 4e comes out before 2010, I'll be miffed. If I ever see 4.5, I'm officially never buying another WotC product again for as long as I live, and I'll do my damndest to make sure as many people as I can get will boycott them as well. That will be proof positive that WotC doesn't give a damn about D&D players, and just wants to milk us for every last cent they can get their greedy little hands on. 4e coming out in 2009 I could live with. I'd be upset, and they'd hear about it, but eventually I could let it slide. 4.5 and I'd be starting up letter writing campaigns, boycotts, and everything else I could think of. That's probably going a bit far. I mean, let's face it... 3.0 was pretty much crap. 3.5 patched a lot of abuse potential. It wasn't released to bilk players out of their money... it was released because 3.0 simply wasn't a viable product. The only decent thing to do for the players is release the revised version before too much damage was done. And given the experience of how bad the 3.0 release was, I just hope their playtesting is a little more extensive. Maybe contract a few people from the CharOps boards to see how much cracking potential there is. Anything to make sure there doesn't NEED to be a 4.5. That said, I just hope WotC doesn't let ranting on the boards stop them from putting out a 4.5 if there really needs to be a game system revision, and I hope they put it out as soon after 4.0's release as possible so that we get the actual game system for as long as possible.
Kalanth 01-14-06, 01:52 AM	Next Tuesday. Really? I got my copy last week.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-14-06, 02:00 AM	That's probably going a bit far. I mean, let's face it... 3.0 was pretty much crap. 3.5 patched a lot of abuse potential. It wasn't released to bilk players out of their money... There's a lot of people who were there that say different. 3.5 was planned even as 3e hit the shelves. On top of which 3.5 fixed nothing that was actually broken and let Disjunction and Astral Projection run wild and free. it was released because 3.0 simply wasn't a viable product. I seem to recall brisk, even amazing sales. Almost as if it was a wildly popular product... The only decent thing to do for the players is release the revised version before too much damage was done. But not before scoring a huge number of sales of splats and supplements, right? If 3.5 was damage control why were there supplements coming after 3.5 was in the gate? And why didn't playtesting catch those 'inviabilities'? Playtesting 3.5 didn't get. And given the experience of how bad the 3.0 release was, I just hope their playtesting is a little more extensive. It was a great release. And 3.5 had no playtesting. Maybe contract a few people from the CharOps boards to see how much cracking potential there is. Anything to make sure there doesn't NEED to be a 4.5. Powergamers have broken craft basket weaving. Personally, if we all ran and hid from powergamers like a lot of people on these boards do, we'd just smack each other with the books instead of playing because its the only way to keep them from min maxing things to hell. That said, I just hope WotC doesn't let ranting on the boards stop them from putting out a 4.5 if there really needs to be a game system revision, and I hope they put it out as soon after 4.0's release as possible so that we get the actual game system for as long as possible. There's no money in dropping the .5 right after the release. 4e Gold Edition (the won't DARE .5 again) will drop probably three years in, after they've sold a run of class and race books.
Kalanth 01-14-06, 02:09 AM	There's no money in dropping the .5 right after the release. 4e Gold Edition (the won't DARE .5 again) will drop probably three years in, after they've sold a run of class and race books. They just need to go back to their roots and drop another Advanced Dungeons and Dragons set on us. That would clear up all this obsession with .5. They made one mistake and we all jump on it like its the new wave in PnP Gaming. If 4e does release, many are right in the idea that it won't be for many years. As for me, I think I am done with 3.5, I love the system as it is and find it wonderfully easy to teach, play, and DM with. Unless they made the next edition so easy that it only needs one page to explain how to do everything in the game, I won't be buying it.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-14-06, 02:13 AM	Unless they made the next edition so easy that it only needs one page to explain how to do everything in the game-- Roll 1d20, add appropriate modifier, compare to target number.
Fox Reeveheart 01-14-06, 02:49 AM	I honestly WILL NOT buy 4.0 if it comes out BEFORE 2010. I want at LEAST a good decade out of these books before I have to burn/sell/replace them. To not get at least that much out of them would be terrible and just plain greedy of WOTC. What we need is a corporation made by gamers, for gamers. ..... It will be called FGBG. To all you at WOTC, I already know enough people in real life and outside of these message boards who have unanimously agreed not to buy your product if you make 4.0 before 2010, its bad enough you only allow the last 2 sets and current edition cards in your MTG tournaments, which just makes us have to billow out more money for you. I understand you need to make money and whatnot, but you have to actually think about your customers too and what they would think if they had to replace their books every few years. So please, think of those who have been loyal fans to you over the years. And I am talking to TSR, not greedy Hasbro.... or.... Greesbro...yes..yes.. I rather like that... Greesbro...ssssssss I personally LOVE 3.5 edition and its updated mechanics and changes, and I really hope you don't even think about 4.0 till about 2008, just keep making us more stuff to use for this system. You will lose a bit of your fanbase if you make 4.0 too soon and you know it.
Rolof 01-14-06, 02:57 AM	You know, I keep seeing these threads pop up, and all the vets of the board usually smirk and flame the poster...but one of these days the people who keep asking are gonna be right. Granted, at this juncture in time it's kind of annoying and some of these people are possibly just trolling... But if you think on it, you could argue it's halfway there already. There's already a DMG II, with a PHB II due in May. That's NEVER been done before. Might as well call it 3.75 now. In fact, I daresay some folks would welcome a 4th edition, to end all the 3.0/3.5 can-I-use-this-with-that problems.
Hasmead_Guy 01-14-06, 04:48 AM	I wouldn't be one of the ones who welcomes 4th Ed. I'd simply stop playing D&D. It was tough enough learning 3.0 and all the arbitrary rules, then 3.5.
Yak of Darkness 01-14-06, 04:56 AM	You know, I keep seeing these threads pop up, and all the vets of the board usually smirk and flame the poster...but one of these days the people who keep asking are gonna be right.Just like how the crazy man on the street yelling, "The end of the world is coming!" will eventually be proved right when entropy destroys everything. The posters aren't going to be "right," they're just going to be throwing feces against the wall until something sticks. But if you think on it, you could argue it's halfway there already. There's already a DMG II, with a PHB II due in May. That's NEVER been done before. Might as well call it 3.75 now.The DMG II is in no way a replacement for the core DMG. I'm doubting the PHB II will be any different. So, no, they're not doing that already with those books. Just because they make a book titled "(Old Book Name) II," doesn't mean they're actually replacing the old book, which would be apparent upon reading even a bit of the DMG II.
q'afuu 01-14-06, 07:05 AM	There's already a DMG II, with a PHB II due in May. That's NEVER been done before. *cough*Skills&Powers*cough*
Artifact 01-14-06, 09:39 AM	I think I'm in love with 4th Edition threads. So much fun. I might have to start one of my very own. Grin and bear it . . . ;)
The nameles one 01-14-06, 10:26 AM	Was there any "When will 3rd edition come out?" conversations back in the 2nd ed days? I'm a bit curious since I started playing right after 3rd ed came out...
Elbethamore 01-14-06, 11:54 AM	I don't think I'd buy a 4th edition until they started coming up with supplements that are too delicious to pass up. Then I just wouldn't be able to help myself, and I'd go on a buying binge. At least I admit that about myself.
rbrt_Spade 01-14-06, 12:09 PM	If a 4e comes out, people you can still play the old editons. Millons of people still play 1e & 2e.
JohnJohn 01-14-06, 12:18 PM	Was there any "When will 3rd edition come out?" conversations back in the 2nd ed days? I'm a bit curious since I started playing right after 3rd ed came out... Well the old time line went something like this (if I remember right, its been awhile). You had Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st ed. and Dungeons and Dragons (the basic, expert, companion and master editions) out at about the same time. You were suposed to learn how to play AD&D by playing D&D first. Then when ya got the hang of things make the switch. I rather liked plain D&D but others saw it as a "junior" version to AD&D. After about 12 rulebooks and a lot of confusion they decided their game needed to be cleaned up as rules were contradictory and confusing. 2nd ed. AD&D is released and I think this is when the D&D rules cyclopedia was released to clean up/streamline the rules for D&D. Some were angry about a new edition most praised it because the rules had become hopelesly complicated and 2-3 books were needed just to create a character and every rule was contradicted somewhere else. All in all there was much rejoicing... the peasants were happy... the powers that be were smiling... it was a time of peace and prosperity... 2nd Ed. is out... then the handbooks followed... there was a complete fighters handbook, wizards, guide to gnomes and halflings... you name it there was some book that you could buy that would explain how to play your character better. (I began avoiding em after about the 3rd one as I didn't like the quality of em.. most of the information in em were common sense things, the rest way over powered the class or race in question). Somewhere inbetween all the handbooks a revised 2nd edition came out... I dont know how many noticed as we were all caught in a flood of handbooks. If it wasn't handbooks it was a flood of campaign materials for various worlds. I think I spent most of my time as dm during this time explaining to players "no you can't play a drow character like drizit". "I dont care what they had in some FR novel your lvl 1 character cant shadow walk through the wall". "No your character can not start with spellfire." Then there was something called skills and powers :::: shudder:::: It added whole new wrinkles to the idea of min/maxing. I quit dming for awhile around this time as I couldn't argue with players any more. If I had a problem with players wanting to play drow chracters or 1st lvl wizards they thought should have all the powers of elminster... skills and powers took these arguments to a whole new level. As a side note, since this time I only allow the core rulebooks to be used in my campaigns.. but I digress... Somewhere in this flood of handbooks and other stuff coming out people stop buying things... TSR goes broke... WOTC or whoever buys the company. People were so happy their hobby was saved that when talk of a new edition came out most accepted it or didn't care as it meant the hobby could grow again. The only real vocal opponents were those worried about how much skills and powers would be in 3rd ed and what changes would have to be made to campaign worlds with new rules. With all the handbooks and skills and powers min/maxing had become so much a problem a lot of people didn't mind a new edition in hopes it would address the problem. So we had 3.0 then later 3.5. Now my personal problem with all this is I keep seeing the same mistake repeated... flood market with stuff... see what hits or misses... get as much stuff out as you can... then launch a new edition saying that the reason you are doing so is to streamline the rules... then after the new edition is out put out a lot more new stuff. From my perspective a great deal of stuff thats out now for 3rd edition is just like 2nd ed. stuff just repackaged. Lets see they did a 3rd edition after they had put out a handbook based on about every class and race... put out enough monster manuals to populate the known dimenions 3 times over... had detailed every square foot of their campaign worlds.. there wasn't anything else to write about.. so new edition. Sorry didn't mean for this post to sound cynical or it to get so long but as I started writing it and remembering this stuff...
Lord Ian Stark 01-14-06, 12:19 PM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think? :rolleyes:
q'afuu 01-14-06, 12:22 PM	Was there any "When will 3rd edition come out?" conversations back in the 2nd ed days? I'm a bit curious since I started playing right after 3rd ed came out... Well, 3E was announced over a year in advance. You didn't have to ask when it was coming out, WotC was quite open about it. One would hope people would be able to assume WotC will do the same with 4E, but apparently not.
KelanenPrinceofSwords 01-14-06, 12:54 PM	That's probably going a bit far. I mean, let's face it... 3.0 was pretty much crap. 3.5 patched a lot of abuse potential. It wasn't released to bilk players out of their money... it was released because 3.0 simply wasn't a viable product. The only decent thing to do for the players is release the revised version before too much damage was done. And given the experience of how bad the 3.0 release was, I just hope their playtesting is a little more extensive. Maybe contract a few people from the CharOps boards to see how much cracking potential there is. Anything to make sure there doesn't NEED to be a 4.5. That said, I just hope WotC doesn't let ranting on the boards stop them from putting out a 4.5 if there really needs to be a game system revision, and I hope they put it out as soon after 4.0's release as possible so that we get the actual game system for as long as possible. Amen! I'm willing to pay for a better product. While I was a bit miffed to have to shell out for the core books again after only 3 yrs., I had to quickly admit that the changes improved the game. I do hope that WotC will take their time developing the next ed., rather than rushing a flawed product to make fast money. As long as the designers are people who love the game, I think D&D will go in the right direction. Once the suits start trying to second-guess something they have no clue about, it will be late-80's TSR all over again (crappy products with crappy bindings).
Bob Loblaw 01-14-06, 01:19 PM	When do you guys think WoTC is going to make 4.0? I think as soon as they run out of ideas, and new books, they will make a 4.0 to make $$$. What do you guys think? It will have nothing to do with ideas or new books. If they run out of ideas, then they will run out of new books. It will have to do with moving the game mechanics into something more viable and money. The money thing is obvious: they need it to stay in business. Any changes to mechanics would have to significantly improve the game. 1st Edition had some mechanics that didn't make sense to most gamers. These were changed in 2nd Edition. This edition also had some mechanics that didn't work as well as anticipated so 3rd edition was created. There are mechanics that many people feel hinder the game so they houserule them away. When WotC feels this has changed how people are playing the game, they will put out a 4th edition. Every game company does this. I have played 4 or 5 versions or Gamma World. I have played 2 versions of Star Frontiers. I have seen more than one version of World of Darkness. I know that Mutants and Masterminds are in their 2nd edition. I think if you look at game systems that have lasted for awhile, there are several editions. Some come out faster than others, but they are there. I think that people who focus on new editions are forgetting that WotC doesn't drive the editions as much as the players do. If things are going good enough for the majority of players, then I don't think we will see any major changes anytime soon. I also would like to point out that WotC has been working on not creating tons of new rules as was done in other editions. When a new book comes out, they strive to keep everything consistent with the core rules. They don't always succeed, but there is a sincere effort to accomplish this. I believe that WotC is not focused on 4th Edition for anytime in the near future.
Dark Voivode 01-14-06, 02:54 PM	The OGL is the death of future editions. There's too much third party material out there for it to be ignored. Should WotC decide a new edition is in order, they'll leave millions of disgruntled gamers behind in the middle of a shopping mall filled with glittering goodies just waiting to be snatched off the shelves. I'm surprised so many of you fail to see that WotC is not the be-all, end-all of gaming anymore. Pick up some of Green Ronin's books and have a look. WotC even lifted material from the Tome of Horrors (Necromancer Games) for monsters, and Artifacts of the Ages: Staves and Swords (The Game Mechanics) for the Scion classes in UA. There are too many other companies with good ideas to let WotC attempt to sell you a *NEW and IMPROVED* game system. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop purchasing WotC products now; I'm just going to stop if a new edition is released.
Jodjod 01-14-06, 03:08 PM	There will not be a 4th edition within the next 15 years, at a minimum. This edition is flexible enough that any desired mechanical changes can be handled sufficiently in a campaign setting or variant book. Now please, let this topic die.
SSj3goblin 01-14-06, 03:39 PM	I want a new edition. Why? Think about it: a lot of people will switch editions and that means A LOT of 3.0 and 3.5 used books hitting the shelves at about half the price of a new book. I'd stick with 3rd E and buy all the used book i could find. Gimme 4E now.
thought_riot 01-14-06, 03:44 PM	To all you at WOTC, I already know enough people in real life and outside of these message boards who have unanimously agreed not to buy your product if you make 4.0 before 2010, its bad enough you only allow the last 2 sets and current edition cards in your MTG tournaments, which just makes us have to billow out more money for you. Since when does WotC only allow the last 2 sets and current eddition cards? As far as I recall, theres Type 2, which is the last 2 BLOCKS ( 6 sets) and the newest edition. Type 2 always has at least 5 sets in it, 3 from a block, 1 from the new block (and eventually 3 from the new block) and 1 base set. Then there's extended, which takes us back 5 years. Then, Legacy and Vintage, which allow the use of ALL cards, barring banned and restricted, and Un-set cards. Don't forget limited too. On 4e, STOP. It's not coming out any time soon.
larry_the_titan 01-14-06, 04:15 PM	I dont think there will be a 4 ed any time soon but if there is I hope they add in all the new classes and races from the Races of and Complete books into the PHB 4ed. There is one good reason to make a 4 ed which is to get rid of Pun Pun. I mean who needs a 12 th level character or less who can do everything including being an Over-Diety. Maybe they could just up date all the old stuff in around four books if they just trim out the junk they dont need and gave a list of all the 3.0 stuff that isnt compatible. Personally there isnt much I dont like about the current system but it could use a few tweeks. There is always room for improvement and new ideas. I understand why people fear an upcomeing revision, I think I have spent around $1,000 just getting a good set of book together and every time I turn around about once every two months they add something useful. If you guys, gals and ect are so worried about 4th ed maybe you should look at what has been improved every time they did a revision. I just hope that no matter when they change the system that they improve the system.
Rumple_Cragstan 01-14-06, 04:46 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=567804&page=1&pp=30 But then again, why listen to WotC about when 4e is coming? I mean its not like they're the ones producing the books or anything. Honestly people. WotC knows what they're talking about. If there's no 4e, then there's no 4e. Shut up, and bake me a pie.
WizO_Cat 01-14-06, 05:08 PM	Ok, I'm going to leave this thread open. I'm sure that there are those curious when 4.0 might be coming out and having discussion is what the boards are all about. If you don't want to talk about the topic or think that it is overdone, then just don't respond to the thread. The main point is to keep the discussion to the topic of the thread. For the record, I haven't heard anything about 4.0 being release in the near future. In fact, many of the comments that have come out have hinted toward the opposite. However, I'm sure that there will be a 4th edition somewhere in the future. My guess would be around 2008 to 2009 timeframe - but please remember, it's only a guess on my part.
Molitor 01-14-06, 05:45 PM	1) Honestly, if 4e comes out before 2010, I'll be miffed. If I ever see 4.5, I'm officially never buying another WotC product again for as long as I live, and I'll do my damndest to make sure as many people as I can get will boycott them as well. That will be proof positive that WotC doesn't give a damn about D&D players, and just wants to milk us for every last cent they can get their greedy little hands on. You think they give a damn NOW? They are in the business to make $. If you think about it this cottage industry known as RPG can be rewritten and changed at any time and in any number of ways. Just think of all the different RPG video and computer games there are, with their different rules and names for saying the same damn thing as another game. I remember recently seeing the term "sudden action" in an official D&D book, I promptly checked my DMG (3.5 of course) to see if I had missed this new thing, but you know the rest........Hasbro owes you nothing, if you think they do you are kidding yourself. This post was not designed to be rude. Just truthful.
mrpopstar 01-14-06, 06:56 PM	q'afuu: *cough*Skills&Powers*cough*This made me chuckle. :) I remember feeling SOOOO cool for having Combat and Tactics before all of my friends at school. Oh, nostalgia.
thought_riot 01-14-06, 07:44 PM	Ok, I'm going to leave this thread open. I'm sure that there are those curious when 4.0 might be coming out and having discussion is what the boards are all about. If you don't want to talk about the topic or think that it is overdone, then just don't respond to the thread. The main point is to keep the discussion to the topic of the thread. For the record, I haven't heard anything about 4.0 being release in the near future. In fact, many of the comments that have come out have hinted toward the opposite. However, I'm sure that there will be a 4th edition somewhere in the future. My guess would be around 2008 to 2009 timeframe - but please remember, it's only a guess on my part. You did however lock the thread complaining about 4e threads. Why? Can't we discuss not wanting 4e threads just as we can discuss 4e?
q'afuu 01-14-06, 08:26 PM	You did however lock the thread complaining about 4e threads. Why? Can't we discuss not wanting 4e threads just as we can discuss 4e? I wouldn't presume to answer for a WizO, so this post is only my opinion, but that thread was closed for good reason. It had turned from a complaint about 4E threads into attacking other posters about their views on 4E threads.
thought_riot 01-14-06, 08:55 PM	I wouldn't presume to answer for a WizO, so this post is only my opinion, but that thread was closed for good reason. It had turned from a complaint about 4E threads into attacking other posters about their views on 4E threads. That is true, but, in the end, isn't that what a lot of 4E threads turn into? :P
q'afuu 01-14-06, 09:43 PM	That is true, but, in the end, isn't that what a lot of 4E threads turn into? :P No. In the end, that's what *all* 4E threads turn into. ;) This one has been fairly civil so far though, so it's still got some stretch in it before a WizO should work a little clicky magic.
Lord Mhoram 01-14-06, 11:14 PM	If a 4e comes out, people you can still play the old editons. Millons of people still play 1e & 2e. I really disliked 2nd so I was a grognard that played 1st (with houserules) until 3rd came out. I play third now, and with all the books I have (WOTC and d20) I have character and campaign ideas that could last me a decade and a half, and that is not counting any other books that come out before 4th. So if I don't feel like 4th ed, if the game doesn't do what I want it to do, I'll be set. :)
larry_the_titan 01-15-06, 11:56 AM	For all it matters I dont care if there is a 4.0 but if WotC decides not to release a 4.0 all they have to do is release 3.6 then 3.7 then 3.8 then 3.9 then pull a rabbit out of there hat and move right on to 5th ed. :P
Knight0 01-15-06, 04:38 PM	42
TheWanderingAlchemist 01-15-06, 04:47 PM	I agree with Knight0 42 is the answer to everything!
Xaxor 01-15-06, 05:02 PM	These 4e threads are almost as bad as "Psionics/Warlocks are broken" threads. Stupidity should be painful. It's just not coming this year, or next year. I wouldn't even expect it in 2009. Just play the game as it is and quit complaining about something that won't effect much of anything! WotC won't come into your home, force you to buy the next edition, and throw out all of your 3.5 stuff.
Cymraegmorgan 01-15-06, 05:03 PM	My guess would be around 2008 to 2009 timeframe - but please remember, it's only a guess on my part. Well, since Jupiter moves into Aquarius in January of 2009, that would be the most auspicious time for a new edition to be released, but the announcement of the new edition would be best for mid-December 2007. :D
celtredleg 01-15-06, 05:08 PM	Is there some deep need for a 4th ed?? WHy does this keep being brought up[??
TheWanderingAlchemist 01-15-06, 05:08 PM	basically were waiting another 2-3 years before an announcements made and then 1-3 more before its officially released.......forget about it and play now....be it 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5 god..... :pbbbtt:
Cymraegmorgan 01-15-06, 05:24 PM	Is there some deep need for a 4th ed?? WHy does this keep being brought up[?? Yes, because the human soul craves perfection, whether we can achieve it or not. Those of us that started playing AD&D twenty-five years ago were happy to see in later editions official rules of perrenial house rules(like no class level limit on non human races). As 3.5 has been solidly through the ringer, we are seeing things that don't work right, and eventually WotC will give us a better, more evolved product. Whether we buy it or not is up to us individually. Note, I went straight from 1st edition to 3.5, because we were happy with our houseruled 1ed system. Will I buy 4e? Most likely. The OGL is the death of future editions. There's too much third party material out there for it to be ignored. Should WotC decide a new edition is in order, they'll leave millions of disgruntled gamers behind in the middle of a shopping mall filled with glittering goodies just waiting to be snatched off the shelves. I'm surprised so many of you fail to see that WotC is not the be-all, end-all of gaming anymore. Pick up some of Green Ronin's books and have a look. WotC even lifted material from the Tome of Horrors (Necromancer Games) for monsters, and Artifacts of the Ages: Staves and Swords (The Game Mechanics) for the Scion classes in UA. While I do not see 4e abandoning the OGL principle, I have perused many third party book, and have yet to fing one that was not either total drek, or so poor in the quality of grammar that I could not bring myself to buy it. And third party paper and binding quality is atrocious, especially since they try to ape WotC in pricing.
Julian_Grimm 01-15-06, 07:58 PM	4e will be released when the idiots finally figure out it's an RPG and not a computer program and eliminate the whole 3.X garbage and go back to using Xe to describe the system.
Lord_Wulfen 01-16-06, 05:56 AM	Why bother with 4.0? 3.5 works just fine - all it means is more cash for the suits
WizO_Cat 01-16-06, 07:18 AM	Is there some deep need for a 4th ed?? WHy does this keep being brought up[?? Because it is something that people are normally curious about and would like to discuss. In all actuality, there is no great "deep need" to create any thread on any subject on these boards. If it isn't something that some people don't want to talk about, that's fine and dandy. However, if one doesn't like to take about it, then don't post in the thread. After all, that's the way a thread stays on the top of the boards. Hey, it is advice that I practice: I just don't like to discuss Called Shots in D&D so I usually don't post in such threads.
larry_the_titan 01-16-06, 02:02 PM	42 Is that 42 months or 42 years??
Cymraegmorgan 01-16-06, 05:44 PM	Why bother with 4.0? 3.5 works just fine - all it means is more cash for the suits It also means another option for us the players, for our enjoyment. It also means more money for artists, writers, editors, typesetters, binders, etc.
Vain_Demondim 01-16-06, 06:58 PM	Is that 42 months or 42 years?? Yes It also means another option for us the players, for our enjoyment. It also means more money for artists, writers, editors, typesetters, binders, etc. No... I dont even what try to calculate how many possibilities there are will 3.5e. Honestly anything you can think of inside of your brain or elsewhere can be fit into 3.5. Supplements, sure 4e... hell no.
Cymraegmorgan 01-16-06, 07:03 PM	Yes No... I dont even what try to calculate how many possibilities there are will 3.5e. Honestly anything you can think of inside of your brain or elsewhere can be fit into 3.5. Supplements, sure One possibility comes to mind. The end of Vancian magic. :cloud9: 4e... hell no. Ahh, the cogent argument used in bygone days about horseless carriages, wireless phones, and talkies.
Rogue Shadows 01-16-06, 07:23 PM	Whoa. 1st edition. Far-out, man. But there was a problem. It was inaccesable. The rules were hard to grasp and were more then a little abstract. Like, totally 2nd Edition But this also had its fair share of problems. People asked - why can't dwarves be mages? WTF, mate? THird EDItiOn IS thE fUTurE The problems of this are legendary, first and foremost that the Ranger, iconic class, was unplayable. It's called 'playtesting,' people. |337 3.5 3>1&10|\| This edition is essentially a culmination of development. It's no longer as abstract, it reaches out to a much wider audience, and most importantly, it allows for maximum customization, beyond any of the previous editions. Editions of D&D aren't like editions of Magic. The purpose of Magic editions is to keep good, staple cards in circulation. D&D editions, however, are trying to improve upon the flaws of the last edition. However, with 3.5, there aren't enough flaws left to justify a whole new edition. There's nothing fundementally wrong with any of the basic rules or systems, and the races, classes, skills, feats, and spells, are easily errata'd or customized to fix any problems. After all, 3.5 is, for all intents and purposes, simply 3rd Edition - but 3rd Edition having been playtested. Hence the ".5" If enough flaws crop up in the next few years, then we'll see 4th Edition. But that's only if there are some deep, fundemental flaws with the system itself. That being said, I am still very ****** off at Wizards for it. Nearly $200 worth of stuff down the tubes. For feck sake, is it that much to ask for a simple Appendecies volume?! Or better yet, a trade-in policy. "Send in your old 3rd Edition books and we'll send you 3.5 Edition at half-off." I think that would have been reasonable. I'd of paid.
Journeyman Samwise 01-16-06, 07:48 PM	I find it adorable that nobody in d20 Modern ever posts threads wondering when new editions are coming out. Mostly because nobody plays d20 Modern, but I digress. edit- You know what could use updating? BESM d20.
kalmarjan 01-16-06, 08:14 PM	When you look at things, we really are not in 3.5e. If you take the D&D litteraly, then you have Chainmail D&D rules booklet D&D set (Basic, expert all the way to Immortal) AD&D AD&D 2nd Edition AD&D Revised 2nd Edition Players/DM Option booklets D&D 3e D&D 3.5e So, that leaves us REALLY at D&D 9e.... LOL Which begs the question.... WHEN IS 10.0 COMING OUT? LOL Sandeman BTW: Totally tongue in cheek; I hope that you understand. :)
GreyLord 01-17-06, 01:27 AM	They just need to go back to their roots and drop another Advanced Dungeons and Dragons set on us. That would clear up all this obsession with .5. They made one mistake and we all jump on it like its the new wave in PnP Gaming. If 4e does release, many are right in the idea that it won't be for many years. As for me, I think I am done with 3.5, I love the system as it is and find it wonderfully easy to teach, play, and DM with. Unless they made the next edition so easy that it only needs one page to explain how to do everything in the game, I won't be buying it. And Advanced D&D game is actually a pretty brilliant idea. Instead of releasing a 4e, releasing and Advanced D&D game could be just the thing to boost sales, bring in new hype, and regain interest of those whose interest has waned. IMO. I think that's actually a great idea. I don't know what they'd put in it to make it Advanced, but if they built upon some concepts of the D&D system current, and perhaps added a little more complexity, it might actually be genius.
weasel fierce 01-17-06, 01:27 AM	From a commercial stand point, WOTC will have to release a new edition eventually. They can only push supplements for so far, unless they start hitting up the modules again (the question being whether 3.5 can even realistically be written generic modules for, due to the diversity of character types) The question is when the loss of revenue from ****** off people, and the gain in revenue from people re-buying all their material will balance out favourably. Personally, i think the aims at providing an easy introductory game is a good financial step, as it can bring in people that may be put off by the large, and complex rule books. I'd love to see some actual sales figures for how WOTC is doing, as far as sales of mini's vs sales of D&D books. WOTC wants to stay in business, and they want to pay their employees. They also want to keep Hasbro content, since they may have more money behind them, but they also have bigger demands. And thats fair. Its how business works. Denying that wont mean it doesnt happen.
weasel fierce 01-17-06, 01:29 AM	When you look at things, we really are not in 3.5e. If you take the D&D litteraly, then you have Chainmail D&D rules booklet D&D set (Basic, expert all the way to Immortal) Someone had to nitpick, but the basic/expert set actually had 2 separate versions (moldvay/cook and Mentzer) as well as at least 2 re-releases (the cyclopedia, and the black box) :)
Journeyman Samwise 01-17-06, 02:02 AM	Chainmail? What was that and why does nobody tell me these things? I'm going back to under my rock now.
Draco Strang 01-17-06, 10:14 AM	My sig has most of the relevant info on 4e release dates. On a side note, why don't we just sticky a thread titled "4e release info" with the subject matter being "Quit Asking"?
Loopy 01-17-06, 11:10 AM	Next Tuesday. See you then! :D When you look at things, we really are not in 3.5e. If you take the D&D litteraly, then you have Chainmail D&D rules booklet D&D set (Basic, expert all the way to Immortal) AD&D AD&D 2nd Edition AD&D Revised 2nd Edition Players/DM Option booklets D&D 3e D&D 3.5e So, that leaves us REALLY at D&D 9e.... LOL Which begs the question.... WHEN IS 10.0 COMING OUT? LOL Sandeman BTW: Totally tongue in cheek; I hope that you understand. :) Actually, you make an EXTREMELY good point. Indeed, we have it easy compared to people who play other games. Can you say Warhammer? Holey moley, those poor bastards.
MerricB 01-17-06, 06:37 PM	Someone had to nitpick, but the basic/expert set actually had 2 separate versions (moldvay/cook and Mentzer) as well as at least 2 re-releases (the cyclopedia, and the black box) :) Three: Basic D&D - edited by J. Eric Holmes Basic D&D + Expert D&D - Moldvay/Cook Basic D&D + Expert D&D + Companion + Master - Mentzer The original version bears little resemblance to Moldvay/Cook (which is very close to Mentzer). Cheers!
bytor4232 01-17-06, 07:50 PM	I want a new edition. Why? Think about it: a lot of people will switch editions and that means A LOT of 3.0 and 3.5 used books hitting the shelves at about half the price of a new book. I'd stick with 3rd E and buy all the used book i could find. Gimme 4E now. Thats what I'm talkin about. I don't ever plan on switching out of 3.5, however 4E would be great for me so I can finish my 3.5 collection on the cheap ;)
Cymraegmorgan 01-17-06, 08:20 PM	Chainmail? What was that and why does nobody tell me these things? I'm going back to under my rock now. Rules for medieval miniatures, from whence sprang D&D. My copy is a 7th printing, and is dated 1979. I think the first printing was 1975, but I am not sure. Chainmail is the australopethicene of the D&D evolutionary chain. :D
q'afuu 01-17-06, 09:09 PM	Chainmail is the australopethicene of the D&D evolutionary chain. :D Chainmail is a southern ape (australopithecine, btw)? :P
Rogue Shadows 01-17-06, 09:19 PM	Yes. Yes it is.
The Simple Seeker II 01-17-06, 09:57 PM	Even a guess...can keep a fire going.Ok, I'm going to leave this thread open. I'm sure that there are those curious when 4.0 might be coming out and having discussion is what the boards are all about. If you don't want to talk about the topic or think that it is overdone, then just don't respond to the thread. The main point is to keep the discussion to the topic of the thread. For the record, I haven't heard anything about 4.0 being release in the near future. In fact, many of the comments that have come out have hinted toward the opposite. However, I'm sure that there will be a 4th edition somewhere in the future. My guess would be around 2008 to 2009 timeframe - but please remember, it's only a guess on my part.
WizO_Cat 01-17-06, 10:12 PM	Fires keep people warm during the winter. There's nothing wrong with fire, just as long as it is done with a purpose. For the most part, this thread is on track. There's nothing inheritantly wrong with guessing.
WizO_Cat 01-17-06, 10:15 PM	My sig has most of the relevant info on 4e release dates. On a side note, why don't we just sticky a thread titled "4e release info" with the subject matter being "Quit Asking"? I've been on these boards long enough to know almost every question has been asked at least once or twice before. This is not a unique feature of the topic. Besides, if one is tired of talking about the subject, we don't force guests to post on the topic. Post on the ones that you want to.
WizO_Cat 01-17-06, 10:17 PM	I find it adorable that nobody in d20 Modern ever posts threads wondering when new editions are coming out. Mostly because nobody plays d20 Modern, but I digress. edit- You know what could use updating? BESM d20. On a sde note, BESM updated. It's just that they didn't update on the d20 platform. I should know - I played the updated game during GenCon last August.
Wolfen Fenrison 01-17-06, 11:34 PM	what epople should be asking them selves is if how a 4th edition will change the 3rd party developer community, 3.5 left some scars that have just healed, another major change to the system (even more so if this changes the srd) effects everone that produces d20 books. this effects D&D minis, all the settings, massive amounts of online update packs for the 3.5 books (and maby the 3.0 books as well). iu personaly would find this bad, but thats just me.
q'afuu 01-18-06, 01:11 PM	what epople should be asking them selves is if how a 4th edition will change the 3rd party developer community... With all due respect for those 3rd party developers, that's only a minor consideration IMO. The Open Gaming Foundation is a means to an end, and that end is to make D&D as pervasive an RPG as possible. It wasn't created for the benefit of 3rd party developers. Moreover, it wouldn't be like WotC would be taking something away they hadn't granted in the first place, and it's not that uncommon a business approach either. The OGL is a mutually beneficial system, but that dosn't put WotC under any obligation of keeping it going when it no longer benefits them.
Dark Voivode 01-18-06, 06:29 PM	what epople should be asking them selves is if how a 4th edition will change the 3rd party developer community, 3.5 left some scars that have just healed, another major change to the system (even more so if this changes the srd) effects everone that produces d20 books. this effects D&D minis, all the settings, massive amounts of online update packs for the 3.5 books (and maby the 3.0 books as well). iu personaly would find this bad, but thats just me. A 4th Edition would be the best thing that could happen for 3rd party presses. Why? All the material that disgruntled people like me will be snatching up will be from the 3rd party presses. WotC can do whatever they want; I'm under no obligation to change editions, and I'm not going to.
GV Dammerung 01-19-06, 04:05 PM	Every edition of the game is the best ever. Don’t believe it? Ask TSR/Wotc when it is released because they invariably say so. All those who hang on what TSR/Wotc say will also say so. Don’t believe it? Check the sales numbers. Money talks. BS walks. Every edition is in the black when it comes out. Gamers as a whole love new editions. The wonder is back, along with new things to talk/complain about and play. Soooo. When a 4E is released, it will be the best edition ever because Wotc will say so and all those who make it profitable for Wotc will say so with their wallets. Now. Maybe those enjoying 4E and making it the best edition ever will not be you or me. The (A)D&D audience is not constant over time. I’ve been playing since 1978. Every edition. And I’ve been active in the hobby (RPGA, Usenet, Messageboards etc.) to one degree or another with every edition, not just my home game. Lots of people are similarly hot and heavy for one edition of another and very active in the hobby but then they vanish with a new edition or the next. But guess what? They are invariably replaced by another crop - either total newbies or “old hands” from an earlier, but not too early, edition. I’ve seen it happen repeatedly. So. _YOU_ won’t play 4E? See ya! You will be replaced. Your friends who agree with you too. Guaranteed. And Wotc and D&D won’t miss a beat. As to 4E, it will be released when it makes business sense to do so. It will not be released sooner and it will not be released one moment later. Neither pleading for 4E or whining about 4E on some message board will change that. The release of 3.5 was profitable for Wotc. Unhappy with how 3.5 was handled? Too bad. It was profitable. It worked. Sure. Wotc would like more positive press than griping but - bottom line - 3.5 was a business success. Money talks. Internet complaints walk. Speculating on when 4E makes business sense and will be released is great sport. It is kind of a game in and of itself. My own theory is that Wotc does not have a specific release date for 4E in mind. They have a “release window” - sometime between 2008 and 2010 is my guess - but this window can be moved, one way or another, if sales recommend it. My sense is that the number of books releasing, each adding more options, will eventually (1) create too high a new gamer knowledge threshold while (2) making it hard for even veterans to keep up, which will eventually lead to (3) decreasing sales. Call it “gamer fatigue.” A year or two of that and we will see a new edition to reset the clock because sales of supplements will have slipped. Contrary to popular belief, I believe it would not take Wotc years to design 4E. These guys do this 24/7 and know where they can add and subtract from the rules. It is my belief a new edition could be ready in as little as 18 months. Playtesting, as 3.5 demonstrated is optional, and as 3.0 demonstrated does not inevitably yield a near to perfect rule set. Playtesting as was done with 3.0 is more about marketing than actual design or at least as much. As 3.5 was already in the works when 3.0 released, it is fairly safe to imagine that 4E is already down the design road to a fair degree. All this leads me to suppose 4E in 2008, 2009 and 2010 in order of most to least likely. The closer to 2010 the more inevitable 4E. Personally, I would welcome 4E tomorrow. I feel 3.5 is deeply flawed in terms of needing too much prep time, actual play (don’t get me started) and how it encourages players to think about the game. On the last point, the 3X editions are the only editions to see rampant talk of “builds,” which I see as a negative thing as it reflects an over emphasis on the mechanical aspects of the game. But that is just personal preference. It will be interesting to see if 4E is just 3.5 redux, if 4E goes more down the miniatures (increasingly granular design) route or simplifies. I know this. I’ll be there as I’ve been there for every iteration of the game since 1978. The rest of you can go get lives. ;) I'll play (A)D&D. :D
serch 01-19-06, 09:42 PM	I dont understand why most people get nervous when we try to speak about this topic :confused: . This is our hobby, I dont mind spending some bucks regularly on it if the improvements are subtantial. Do they have a new set of rules? Better than these? Sure. Go Ahead. Count me on. Better sooner than later. And if they make money in the proccess, that would be ok. It means our hobby is enlisting more people. :P
thought_riot 01-19-06, 10:01 PM	it is fairly safe to imagine that 4E is already down the design road to a fair degree. Actually, as has been stated by WiZo_Paradox, there are no current plans for 4E, therefore, the design process has not even yet begun.
weasel fierce 01-19-06, 10:07 PM	Given that Monte Cook has stated that 3.5 was planned before 3.0 was even released, I find that hard to believe. Has any WOTC designer actually gone on record, as stating such ?
Cymraegmorgan 01-19-06, 10:43 PM	Actually, as has been stated by WiZo_Paradox, there are no current plans for 4E, therefore, the design process has not even yet begun. The design process began as soon as 3.5 hit the shelves, and any of the design team began tinkering with new ideas, even in their head. :)
bytor4232 01-19-06, 11:49 PM	I know this. I’ll be there as I’ve been there for every iteration of the game since 1978. The rest of you can go get lives. ;) I'll play (A)D&D. :D /me stands up and applauds loudly
Cymraegmorgan 01-20-06, 12:20 AM	/me stands up and applauds loudly I'll join the applause, even though I completely skipped 2e.
Journeyman Samwise 01-20-06, 12:21 AM	On a sde note, BESM updated. It's just that they didn't update on the d20 platform. I should know - I played the updated game during GenCon last August. Oh, so now it's going to be even more impossible to understand? Score! Link- http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/besm/
bytor4232 01-20-06, 12:26 AM	I'll join the applause, even though I completely skipped 2e. So did I. For some odd reason I wasn't into 2E. I played 1E and a mess of other games, just didn't like 2E.