Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HELLFIST 08-11-07, 02:55 AM	I have been here from basic and expert all the way to 3.5 and have updated each time but now with the cost of things now and with what I have invested I would have to say no to 4e because I have way too much in 3.5 as it is with real books and e-books I have down loaded it would be stooped for them to make those books useless or parts of them any way as it stands it would be better to just keep going as it is because with all of the online games out there role or roll players or power gamers are a dieing breed. I for one will stay with 3.5 and all of my 200 + books and that is under estimating really I have a small fortune in those books 2 large shelves full.
shadzar 08-11-07, 04:41 AM	200+ is about how many 2E books i have. those are enough for me.
xXOblivionXx 08-11-07, 06:39 AM	I agree with HELLFIST, I have spend a small "fortune" on the 3.5 books, so, if 4th edition comes out I'm not using it.
Matthew_ 08-11-07, 07:18 AM	It is unavoidable that there will eventually be a 4e. Probably sometime in the next few years, all things being constant. More than likely, a great majority of people will jump ship, it's really no big deal, it's just the nature of the beast. Best you can really hope for is that it's backwards compatable.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 08-11-07, 09:48 AM	Ever seen this: "." before? Might want to try using one...
Seeker95 08-11-07, 10:01 AM	Bring on 4th Edition. I can't wait. If for no other reason than to end the "oh my gods! I heard there's a 4th edition coming out. The world will end and cats will be sleeping with dogs. Paris will turn out to be a really good actress, and France and England will merge into a single state." At least then the same people will only be saying "oh my gods! 4th edition came out. The world has ended and cats are sleeping with dogs. Paris is a really good actress, and France and England have merged into a single state."
mshea 08-11-07, 10:07 AM	I love 3.5. It got me back into D&D after about 13 years away from my last 2nd edition days. I've bought perhaps $300 to $400 in 3.5 edition books over the past few years. I've enjoyed many of them, some of them I haven't enjoyed as much. I was fascinated by what I read in 4th edition. My own high-level D&D 3.5 game had started slowing to a crawl. Building interesting villains became a lot more work than I had the time for. I started simplifying on my own just to save time. My games also slowed down. I went from five or six encounters in an adventure down to four, to three, and now to two. Two encounters in four hours. As another poster once put it, playing with Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Complete Arcane is like playing a 4th edition. I love the idea of per-encounter magic and melee abilities. I love the idea of a single big attack instead of a series of iterative attacks. If this is the direction they're going to take with 4th edition, I'm in. If they come out with a D&D 4th edition, I would buy it. I would definitely play it and probably switch my campaigns over. If there was material in my old 3.5 books that I wanted in 4th edition, I'd work to covert them or look up one of the guides for conversion that will no doubt appear. I see my investment into D&D as evolving. The books themselves are entertaining and fun but they are just a vehicle for the times I have at the table. I can understand why people would look at a shelf full of D&D 3.5 books and get angry at the idea that they become obsolete. Personally, I'm frustrated by some of the things in 3.5 (a minor frustration compared to the entertainment I'm finding with it, to be sure) enough to wish for a 4th edition. Just my thoughts.
FponkDamn 08-11-07, 10:19 AM	See, a lot of the "fixes" that 4e would probably bring are very workable in the current system. ToB-style combat works just fine in 3.5 rules, it's just looking at combat a different way. PHBII "variants" like Berserking instead of Raging and Shapeshift instead of Wild Shape further pull away from a "per-day" model and towards something new, but work fine in the rules system. And most house rules that simplify the game don't involve whole new systems, just tweaks - and you'd be surprised how many houserules across many games are nearly identical (or maybe you wouldn't be so surprised, if you've used them yourself and seen how good some can be). So wouldn't it be great if they just released a single book, maybe called "The Saga Handbook" or some catchy title like that, that was essentially the 4e upgrade for the game, but still allowed you to use all your current books? Like, just a WotC-created, official material set of houserules that turned your game into Fourth Edition, but didn't obsolete your libraries upon libraries. Whole chapters on new Skill/Feat systems, magic systems, injury/death systems, or whatever else they might be thinking about changing - all with conversion notes. Remember the little magazine-style pamphlet you could get when 3e first came out that let you convert your 2e characters? It was choppy, but it was an idea. This would be like the hardcover, fully-playtested, integrated version of that. Those that want changes to the system get it, and those that don't want to lose their investment of books don't have to. And then boom, it becomes official material, RPGA starts using it, and presto! We're in 4e, but with no messy crossover that alienates half the customer base. Any thoughts? - Johnny
Board_Rider 08-11-07, 10:37 AM	When 4E eventually comes around I will look into it but will make the change only if the system appeals to me. If not then I hope to score on cheap 3.5 books being sold to the guys/gals making the change.
mshea 08-11-07, 11:05 AM	I agree, Johnny, Why not release a new Unearthed Arcana with updated rules for spells, skills, movement, and iterative attacks? It can still be 3.5. It can be compatible with 3.5. And it won't make all our current books obsolete. I think that's a fine idea.
TyWebb 08-11-07, 11:36 AM	Bring on 4th Edition. I can't wait. If for no other reason than to end the "oh my gods! I heard there's a 4th edition coming out. The world will end and cats will be sleeping with dogs. Paris will turn out to be a really good actress, and France and England will merge into a single state." At least then the same people will only be saying "oh my gods! 4th edition came out. The world has ended and cats are sleeping with dogs. Paris is a really good actress, and France and England have merged into a single state." Nah. The same people will wait about 5 minutes after 4e comes out, then start *****ing about how 5e is obviously just around the corner.
Bob Loblaw 08-11-07, 12:45 PM	According to this site (http://cgi.ebay.com/Advance-Dungeons-and-Dragons-Monster-Manual-4th-ed_W0QQitemZ250153666843QQihZ015QQcatego ryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie wItem), 4th edition Monster Manual is already here.
Sliver_Slave 08-11-07, 01:27 PM	According to this site (http://cgi.ebay.com/Advance-Dungeons-and-Dragons-Monster-Manual-4th-ed_W0QQitemZ250153666843QQihZ015QQcatego ryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie wItem), 4th edition Monster Manual is already here. That made me blow milk out my nose (what...I was drinking a milkshake....). Seriously, 4thE from friggin' 1979?!? That's unlikely.
Khadmus 08-11-07, 01:34 PM	Ever seen this: "." before? Might want to try using one... He put a period at the end.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 08-11-07, 01:51 PM	He put a period at the end. I think it was a typo.
Timbo35918 08-11-07, 02:01 PM	Wasn't 2ed out for like 15 to 20 years?
TheAnthroDM 08-11-07, 02:17 PM	Is it this time of the week again? Like ZOMG, WoTC really care if a single person isn't going to play 4e. Or... they don't. Yeah, they don't. You're not going to stop 4e from coming around, but if you don't want to go any farther because you've spend a "small fortune" on DnD books there will still be people playing 3.5, just like there are still people playing ADND2. In sum, this entire thread is pointless.
Bob Loblaw 08-11-07, 02:30 PM	That made me blow milk out my nose (what...I was drinking a milkshake....). Seriously, 4thE from friggin' 1979?!? That's unlikely. I think he meant 4th printing. I thought it was funny too.
Wight_Chocolate 08-11-07, 02:32 PM	4.0 is going to turn out to be this perfect system that increases the fun of the game ten times over, balances all classes, makes the CR system worth a damn, fixes every problem and clarifies all the ambiguity known to exist in the previous edition and will be fully compiled into a single, inexpensive book, packaged with a free, easily followed guide on how to convert older rules to the new version. And I will laugh so very much.
caeruleus 08-11-07, 02:32 PM	Nah. The same people will wait about 5 minutes after 4e comes out, then start *****ing about how 5e is obviously just around the corner. Yup. Very shortly after 2e came out (so this would have been in the very early 90s), I heard people talk about 3e. One guy kept insisting that he knew all the rules from 3e, and would claim that anything he wanted to do was allowed in those rules. We generally ignored him. According to this site (http://cgi.ebay.com/Advance-Dungeons-and-Dragons-Monster-Manual-4th-ed_W0QQitemZ250153666843QQihZ015QQcatego ryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie wItem), 4th edition Monster Manual is already here. I'm guessing they probably mean the 4th printing of that book. EDIT: And you beat me to pointing this out. :) Wasn't 2ed out for like 15 to 20 years? More like 11 years, from 1989 to 2000.
zzo38 08-11-07, 02:32 PM	If they change some things so is more messed up than before, then I don't like it. If 4e is DRM then I really don't like it. And if they destroy your 3.5e books because of it, and force you to buy 4e because 3e isn't allowed to be available in stores anymore, then I really even more don't like it!
Ash2Dust 08-11-07, 02:36 PM	See, a lot of the "fixes" that 4e would probably bring are very workable in the current system. ToB-style combat works just fine in 3.5 rules, it's just looking at combat a different way. PHBII "variants" like Berserking instead of Raging and Shapeshift instead of Wild Shape further pull away from a "per-day" model and towards something new, but work fine in the rules system. And most house rules that simplify the game don't involve whole new systems, just tweaks - and you'd be surprised how many houserules across many games are nearly identical (or maybe you wouldn't be so surprised, if you've used them yourself and seen how good some can be). So wouldn't it be great if they just released a single book, maybe called "The Saga Handbook" or some catchy title like that, that was essentially the 4e upgrade for the game, but still allowed you to use all your current books? Like, just a WotC-created, official material set of houserules that turned your game into Fourth Edition, but didn't obsolete your libraries upon libraries. Whole chapters on new Skill/Feat systems, magic systems, injury/death systems, or whatever else they might be thinking about changing - all with conversion notes. Remember the little magazine-style pamphlet you could get when 3e first came out that let you convert your 2e characters? It was choppy, but it was an idea. This would be like the hardcover, fully-playtested, integrated version of that. Those that want changes to the system get it, and those that don't want to lose their investment of books don't have to. And then boom, it becomes official material, RPGA starts using it, and presto! We're in 4e, but with no messy crossover that alienates half the customer base. Any thoughts? - Johnny What makes you think a 4e will just be a bunch of fixes and upgrades, rather than the complete overhaul that every previous edition change has been?
Zousha_Omenohu 08-11-07, 02:49 PM	I still don't understand why so many people are upset and paranoid about a 4th edition. If it happens it happens. If you don't want to play it then don't play it. Exercise the power of the purse and don't patronize WotC if you hate it so much. It's not like the moment 4.0 comes out they're going to burn all the 3.5 stuff still on the shelves. A lot of this just seems like overreacting to me.
TheAnthroDM 08-11-07, 02:50 PM	If they change some things so is more messed up than before, then I don't like it. If 4e is DRM then I really don't like it. And if they destroy your 3.5e books because of it, and force you to buy 4e because 3e isn't allowed to be available in stores anymore, then I really even more don't like it! This is a joke post. Right?
Talok 08-11-07, 02:52 PM	See, a lot of the "fixes" that 4e would probably bring are very workable in the current system. ToB-style combat works just fine in 3.5 rules, it's just looking at combat a different way. PHBII "variants" like Berserking instead of Raging and Shapeshift instead of Wild Shape further pull away from a "per-day" model and towards something new, but work fine in the rules system. And most house rules that simplify the game don't involve whole new systems, just tweaks - and you'd be surprised how many houserules across many games are nearly identical (or maybe you wouldn't be so surprised, if you've used them yourself and seen how good some can be). So wouldn't it be great if they just released a single book, maybe called "The Saga Handbook" or some catchy title like that, that was essentially the 4e upgrade for the game, but still allowed you to use all your current books? Like, just a WotC-created, official material set of houserules that turned your game into Fourth Edition, but didn't obsolete your libraries upon libraries. Whole chapters on new Skill/Feat systems, magic systems, injury/death systems, or whatever else they might be thinking about changing - all with conversion notes. Remember the little magazine-style pamphlet you could get when 3e first came out that let you convert your 2e characters? It was choppy, but it was an idea. This would be like the hardcover, fully-playtested, integrated version of that. Those that want changes to the system get it, and those that don't want to lose their investment of books don't have to. And then boom, it becomes official material, RPGA starts using it, and presto! We're in 4e, but with no messy crossover that alienates half the customer base. Any thoughts? - Johnny It's not going to happen like that. Where do you think WotC gets their money to stay in business? From you and others buying all of those books, that's where. When 3.5 came out, they wasted little time in rehashing their 3.0 material and selling it to us again with just enough new material to make it desirable to their customers. They will do the same thing when 4the edition comes out because that is how they make their money. It's simple economics. I can understand and accept that. Since they have been pulling their liscenses to other companies to make D&D relate material so they can make more things in house, it looks like they are headed away from simple survival to overwhelming, unfathomable corporate greed. There is no way they would do something as altruistic as what you suggested.
shadzar 08-11-07, 03:50 PM	That made me blow milk out my nose (what...I was drinking a milkshake....). Seriously, 4thE from friggin' 1979?!? That's unlikely. not very unlikely since that is exactly what it is. "4th Edition, August 1979" continues to state this on the copyright page from 4th printing above until 1983's 7th printing. go figure someone on eBay actually knows how to list a book properly to identify it from all the various other printings so collectors will know what exactly they are looking at. :rolleyes: go figure that it states it is the 4th edition of that particular book printed. considering the 3rd+ edition then 4th edition of the MM just also happens to be the 4th revision. if not for the existance of 3rd+ then 4th edition would be the 3rd revision. :eek:
IRememberCecil 08-11-07, 03:55 PM	4e just say no Say this is it Don't say maybe Don't say no Say this is it Don't say hold on Don't say slow Say this is it Don't say next time Don't say when Say this is it Don't say later No, don't say then Just say yes! Do it now! Let yourself go! Just leap! Don't look! Or you'll never know If you love it You might really love it If you love it You might really love it! Oh come on and love it! Yeah, this is it Don't be cautious Don't think twice This is it Don't play it safe Don't put on ice Yeah, this is it Don't chew it over No don't kick it around This is it Don't wait and see Don't try to work it out Just say yes! Do it now! Let yourself go! Just leap! Don't look! Or you'll never know... If you love it You might really love it! So don't tell me It could all go wrong No don't tell me It could all be a mess Oh don't tell me It could all be a waste of time Just say oui! Si! Sim! Da! Ja! Yow! Igen! Kylla! Just say yes!
Xyxox 08-11-07, 10:01 PM	Heck, 3.5e is every bit as mired in rules bloat as 2.5e ever was! Splat books galore. Rules that are broken. It's completely overdone again. It's time to chuck it all and reboot. They can't bring 4e on soon enough for me!
IRememberCecil 08-11-07, 10:07 PM	Heck, 3.5e is every bit as mired in rules bloat as 2.5e ever was! Splat books galore. Rules that are broken. It's completely overdone again. It's time to chuck it all and reboot. They can't bring 4e on soon enough for me! The worst offender of all is Core itself. The system itself is somehow managing to balance itself. So in spite of The Cure lyrics I posted, I'd like 3.5 to continue a bit longer, but Core must be redone (well, the classes).
Stuntman 08-11-07, 11:51 PM	As big of an improvement 3E/3.5 is over previous editions, I think that there is still room for improvement to the core rules. Some of the improvements I hope to see probably should be done by revamping the core rules rather than through things like feats and prestige classes. I'm sure that after 4E comes out, players will find some issues with 4E that will be addressed in 5E. And so on, and so on...
shadzar 08-11-07, 11:55 PM	As big of an improvement 3E/3.5 is over previous editions, I think that there is still room for improvement to the core rules. Some of the improvements I hope to see probably should be done by revamping the core rules rather than through things like feats and prestige classes. I'm sure that after 4E comes out, players will find some issues with 4E that will be addressed in 5E. And so on, and so on... and maybe by the time we are all long dead someone will have finally fixed the rules to a syste, that is somehow actually properly balanced. but then i don't care about that far off. :rolleyes:
adamb0nd 08-12-07, 12:10 AM	I assume that the rehash has to do with the new Star Wars Saga Edition core rule book. Basicly, they dumbed the system down, but made it 100% more customizable. I don't know if S.E is going to be the battle map for the new 4th edition construction, but I wouldn't be surprised to find they have a lot in common.
Schemerrat 08-12-07, 12:12 AM	There's plenty of 3e/3.5e to keep on playing there's plenty room for improvement, 4e :cheer:
Francius 08-12-07, 12:23 AM	Over one of Gamer Zero's Radio shows podcast interviews (whew...) with Chris Perkins as the guest, Chris clearly said that there will definitely be a 4th D&D edition. I don't think it will anounced at this year's GenCon nor at next years' one, but I asume that we will definitely see it by the end of 2009.
Adamaro23 08-12-07, 01:43 AM	I too will never buy/play 4e. Like others I have a lot of money in 3.5. I've spent nearly every dollar since I was 14 on 3.5 (and didn't have a job), so if i even started 4e thats an entire 4 years of wasted money, aside from the happiness it's brought to me... So wizards, i accept the fact that there will be a 4e sometime, but when that time comes i'll just start buying from 3rd party sources as soon as i get the 3.5 books i dont have.
JaniceWilson 08-12-07, 01:58 AM	I'll wait until it arrives, look through it, maybe try it if the chance presents itself and determine if I'll go for it or not.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-12-07, 02:04 AM	:rant: Again, why are people so hung up about it? Yes, people have invested a lot of money in 3.5. That doesn't mean that those books are going to be affected by the emergence of 4.0! You can still read them and still use them! You don't have to buy 4.0 just because it's there. Likewise, you don't need to burn your 3.5 books when 4.0 comes out. For all we know we could start a 3.5 revival if 4.0 turned out to be crappy! Why do so many people believe that it's going to be the apocalypse of this noble and entertaining passtime?
xXOblivionXx 08-12-07, 02:07 AM	:rant: Again, why are people so hung up about it? Yes, people have invested a lot of money in 3.5. That doesn't mean that those books are going to be affected by the emergence of 4.0! You can still read them and still use them! You don't have to buy 4.0 just because it's there. Likewise, you don't need to burn your 3.5 books when 4.0 comes out. For all we know we could start a 3.5 revival if 4.0 turned out to be crappy! Why do so many people believe that it's going to be the apocalypse of this noble and entertaining passtime? Nobody says that. We just say that we have spend far too much money on 3.5. That's all.
SS_Panzer_Officer 08-12-07, 02:08 AM	Hi- All good things must come to an end but hopefully D&D 4E will be just as good as 3.5, heck I'm sure most of the books will be compatible. Personally, I am looking forward to the new edition, it will be nice to see the rules get cleaned up and a sleeker way to handle combat, spell casting ect ect. Anyway, being a long time CoC player, new editions are common place with us. So a nrw edition of D&D every 5 or 6 years is icing on the cake. Scott
Zousha_Omenohu 08-12-07, 02:16 AM	Nobody says that. We just say that we have spend far too much money on 3.5. That's all. Yes, but as far as I can tell, this is the message I'm getting from a lot of people: "4.0 is BAD!!!" The title of this thread seems to suggest that line of thinking, and basically, I'm confused as to why so many people are decrying 4.0 when I think the proper attitude would be one of detached curiosity. Maybe I just have trouble reading people.
xXOblivionXx 08-12-07, 02:27 AM	Yes, but as far as I can tell, this is the message I'm getting from a lot of people: "4.0 is BAD!!!" The title of this thread seems to suggest that line of thinking, and basically, I'm confused as to why so many people are decrying 4.0 when I think the proper attitude would be one of detached curiosity. Maybe I just have trouble reading people. Certainly there are people who are like this "ZOMG Its teh end of tah wordz2z" But anyway. if 4th edition have "rules" on how to use 3.5 material on it then I'll be glad to use it. (Especially if it get rid of alignment).
bonethug0108 08-12-07, 02:29 AM	/says yes to 4e If it's an improvement, I'm all for it. My 3.5 books will still be there.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-12-07, 02:32 AM	Certainly there are people who are like this "ZOMG Its teh end of tah wordz2z" But anyway. if 4th edition have "rules" on how to use 3.5 material on it then I'll be glad to use it. (Especially if it get rid of alignment). As will I, but that doesn't answer my main question, which is why people are responding in that fashion, which, all in all seems rather immature?
xXOblivionXx 08-12-07, 02:36 AM	As will I, but that doesn't answer my main question, which is why people are responding in that fashion, which, all in all seems rather immature? You answered your own question. They respond in that fashion due to immaturity.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-12-07, 02:57 AM	So they think 4.0 is bad because they're immature? I'm confused, or maybe I wasn't clear or something.
Kadasbrass 08-12-07, 03:16 AM	Honestly, do we all have to get on our own soup box to talk about how we're not going to buy 4e. If you don't want to buy it, then don't. Its that simple. There will always be new editions of the game from now till doomsday (or when ever the game is forgotten and left behind). Because each generation of players will change the game to "improve" it and each generation thereafter will try to "improve" it in order to fix the problems the previous generation caused. I have 40+ 3.5 books, it was the edition I started with, and most likely will keep playing. Of all my books, I haven't even touched a fourth of the material. All the books I have, and with all the material on the internet, I can keep playing 3.5 with "new" material for the rest of my life without having to buy another book. So if you don't want 4th edition, thats fine. But don't treat it like the end of the world, since there will always be 3.5 material you haven't seen yet. The game does need improved, I doubt the next three editions will manage to find the correct improvement. (I just have to make the improvements myself) Sigh, I somehow ended up on my own soupbox :rolleyes: He put a period at the end. Actually there was another period about two lines above the end too!
CaoSlayer 08-12-07, 03:49 AM	we all know what a new edition means for hasbro, for hasbro it means to sell once again the same material for a year or two. People will start saying no, but after a year they will start buying 4th edition material because they wants new stuff for their games... of course in place of new material they only will find adaptions of old material. It is all about milking money with the minor effort possible. just look at the later books, they are nothing but class/feats/spells and then they resell the same class/feats/spells as compendium books.