Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 12:30 AM	Alot of people seem to be ticked off at the speedy release of 4th Edition. My question is how many of the regulars here will be willing to spend tons of money on yet another set of core rulebooks along with supplements and how many will wash their hands of being treated like an ATM by WotC by dumping D&D or sticking with 3.5?
SokenzanMarauder 08-17-07, 12:33 AM	Will it cause me to leave D&D as a whole? No. Will it keep me from playing 4th edition for a good couple of years? Yes. Will I be taking my business elsewhere? You betcha. -Gene
Puggins 08-17-07, 12:35 AM	The real question is what percentage of gamers who... #1 play 3.5 and #2 say they will leave because of 4e ...will actually buy 4e. I'm guessing 100%, including our esteemed Mr. Dontgothere, who is still fond of quoting a game company run by a guy who got booted by Necromancer Games because of serious violations involving plagiarism. Well, let's just say 99%, since a few of 'em will probably pass away before 4e is released.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 12:43 AM	The real question is what percentage of gamers who... #1 play 3.5 and #2 say they will leave because of 4e ...will actually buy 4e. I'm guessing 100%, including our esteemed Mr. Dontgothere, who is still fond of quoting a game company run by a guy who got booted by Necromancer Games because of serious violations involving plagiarism. Well, let's just say 99%, since a few of 'em will probably pass away before 4e is released. Quoting a gaming company whom just happened to be correct. ;) So your point is? Moreover your guessing will be off because it is ludicrous -- for example even if I(or another poster) buy the 4E core that does not mean EVERYONE will thus 100% of the people will not buy it -- however my "quote"(about the 4E arrival) was on point. You make the mistake of thinking everyone is as obssessed with this "one roleplaying game out of many roleplaying games" as you might be. When v3.5 came out some that claimed they would not buy it never did and now play something else. The same will happen here except the fanbase will be even more fractured now. Funny how the world works isn't it? Facts vs. Fiction and Assumption.
Tanus 08-17-07, 12:47 AM	Considering all the people that said they would NEVER switch over to 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 editions of D&D, I'd say almost everyone will continue on to 4th Edition.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 12:49 AM	Will it cause me to leave D&D as a whole? No. Will it keep me from playing 4th edition for a good couple of years? Yes. Will I be taking my business elsewhere? You betcha. -Gene I can see that happening. I was getting sick of WotC even before they announced 4E because I knew it was coming and I figured they would keep lying to the fans in order to keep them spending. Pathetic.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 12:52 AM	Considering all the people that said they would NEVER switch over to 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 editions of D&D, I'd say almost everyone will continue on to 4th Edition. Some will switch over "eventually" but saying almost everyone or 100% is ridiculous. Anyone that knows anything about sales would know that statement to be false and based on little to no factual data. The only facts we have here now is that 4E is coming in 2008 as I said. That is it. You have no idea of knowing how many people will say they will leave and follow through. You're just speculating based on your own addiction to the game.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-17-07, 12:52 AM	I'll never abandon D&D, but as I've said in my own thread on 4.0 (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13442826&postcount=90), I really don't know which side of this debate to believe, the Doomsday people or the Hallelujah people?
Salla 08-17-07, 12:52 AM	I can see that happening. I was getting sick of WotC even before they announced 4E because I knew it was coming and I figured they would keep lying to the fans in order to keep them spending. Pathetic. Welcome to Business Practices 101. Business try to make money. That's why they exist. Don't be naive. I'll look at 4th Edition with an open mind. So far, what I've read looks encouraging.
Tanus 08-17-07, 12:54 AM	Some will switch over "eventually" but saying almost everyone or 100% is ridiculous. Anyone that knows anything about sales would know that statemen to be false and based on little to no factual data. The only facts we have here now is that 4E is coming in 2008 as I said. That is it. You have no idea of knowing how many people will say they will leave and follow through. You're just speculating based on your own addiction to the game. I'm speculating based on years working in the hobby industry and I can tell you that the influx of new players 4th edition will generate will far outweigh those people who never switch over.
Pyke_Moonshadow 08-17-07, 12:55 AM	I won't leave D&D. If the system is similar to the SWSE system and the TOB then I won't buy it. I will do the same as I did when 2nd came out, wait for the next edition and see if I like that.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:01 AM	Welcome to Business Practices 101. Business try to make money. That's why they exist. Don't be naive. I'll look at 4th Edition with an open mind. So far, what I've read looks encouraging. Why do some businesses with good customer service knock other businesses out of the loop daily? Treating the customer with respect. The bottom line with businesses is the customer is your boss. Lie to your boss enough and you are out of a job. Welcome to common sense and REAL BUSINESS practices 101. Businesses don't exist to lie to their customers which is what the post you quoted from me was actually about. Let's try to stay focused shall we? Businesses exist to provide services to their customers in exchange for compensation. Part of that service is treating the customer with respect. You seem to hold the customers to a certain standard that you don't hold a lying company to by claiming you will look at it with an "open mind." Fine do that...I will look at it too. But I must say... WotCs "minds" were not too open when they continously lied to their customers about not working on a 4E yet many have nothing to say about that. Followers never question their superiors.
angelofyang 08-17-07, 01:02 AM	well, for me, i'd take a look through the 4.0 books and see what they're like. if they're better i might consider buying them. but i began playing with 3.5 series, and they already have so many books out with 3.5 guidelines in them. would i leave D&D? not a chance. too much good stuff going around. would i hate the new format? you can bet all your D20's i would. would i probably buy the books? possibly. if they suck, then not even sic'ing the tarrasque on me would make me buy them in short. i hate the idea of 4.0, and im not going to shell out a single dime if they do come out with it.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:04 AM	I'm speculating based on years working in the hobby industry and I can tell you that the influx of new players 4th edition will generate will far outweigh those people who never switch over. A repost: Some will switch over "eventually" but saying almost everyone or 100% is ridiculous. Anyone that knows anything about sales would know that statement to be false and based on little to no factual data. Main Entry: spec·u·late 1 : to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence : THEORIZE <speculated that a virus caused the disease>
Zousha_Omenohu 08-17-07, 01:07 AM	This feels cynical, but if I wanted to provide services to people I'd join the priesthood or the Peace Corps or some other charitable organization. Wizards of the Coast isn't supposed to be altruistic. The customer is king, yes, but Wizards doesn't have to consult the customers for every decision they make. From what I've seen, if the customers had their way, D&D would just stagnate and Wizards of the Coast would have to drop it altogether because the players were so content with what they had that they didn't want anything new. Sometimes you just need an infusion of new blood, and that's what 4th Edition is to D&D.
Salla 08-17-07, 01:10 AM	Why do some businesses with good customer service knock other businesses out of the loop daily? Treating the customer with respect. The bottom line with businesses is the customer is your boss. Lie to your boss enough and you are out of a job. Welcome to common sense and REAL BUSINESS practices 101. Businesses don't exist to lie to their customers which is what the post you quoted from me was actually about. Let's try to stay focused shall we? They don't exist to do so, but they do. Shall we rename the class to 'Real World Business Practices 101'? Businesses exist to make money. Respecting the customers, keeping promises, quality ... all of that is secondary to making money. It's nice when it happens, but I'm jaded and cynical enough to never expect it. It's a perk, not a requirement. There's a 4th Edition soon. So bloody what? Buy it or not, play it or not.
johnkretzer 08-17-07, 01:15 AM	To be honest I don't see the need to change to 4th Edition. I am happy with both the volume and quality of the stuff out there for 3.5(I also continue to use 3.0 material with slight tweaks). Sure I got a couple of house rules and something are outright banned, but I and my players are comfortable enough with the rules we can just play the game. I do plan on atleast buyinmg the core books and seeing what is new...hey I might steal some their ideas...make 3.75. Anyway only two things will get me to upgrade and that is if I think it is really a big improvement( like I thought it was from 2nd to 3rd) or if everybody else in my group wants to upgrade. I also might just start publishing stuff for 3.5...mmmm ah they'll probably close that open license agreement.
Sarella Starshine 08-17-07, 01:20 AM	I will look at it, I may see about convincing my husband it may make a great birthday gift (my birthday is in May ;)). Will I convert completely? No idea. I was just introduced into D&D right before 3.x came out, and didn't buy a single book til several years later (namely because I was flat broke, bouncing around living from one place to the next therefore making it impossible to keep a steady group). Will it prevent me from playing D&D and make me leave? chances are: no. Its not like my 3.5 books will all of a sudden combust and become piles of ash as soon as 4e comes out. The few other gaming systems I've personally played in were to combersome/akward for me to try and DM in (since, I wind up as DM 99% of the time (as I have the free time to do so), I like thre ease of creating NPCs is). As a side note: Dontgothere apparently has not heard of the term: vaperware. Or if he has, has not applied it to WotC and 4e. The principal of vaperware is this: a company who makes product a has announced that they are working on product b. Product b is supposed to do everything product a does, but better, faster, etc. People hear this announcement and stop buying product a and wait for product b, because why pay for product a when if they wait a bit, they can get product b which is supposed to be better. However, since the company is no longer selling product a (or in the numbers that they were), they keep delaying product b. Eventually, the company folds, product b won't get released. Product b is called vaperware: something promised but not delivered. Considering how early it has been said that they been working on 4e (ideas tossed around since 3e, serious work a few years ago)..If they were open and honest about thier work, I doubt they would have had enough sales of 3.x to support D&D to this day. And, thats not even going into NDA's that might have been abound. I am sure there were plenty of those.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:22 AM	They don't exist to do so, but they do. Shall we rename the class to 'Real World Business Practices 101'? Businesses exist to make money. Respecting the customers, keeping promises, quality ... all of that is secondary to making money. It's nice when it happens, but I'm jaded and cynical enough to never expect it. It's a perk, not a requirement. There's a 4th Edition soon. So bloody what? Buy it or not, play it or not. The customers is how you make money....bottom line. Treat them like crap and they don't stay long, especially when there are other viable contenders with a product similar to your own. I love how you pit treating customers well and making money at different ends of the spectrum. Let's hope you never start a business thinking like that. You'll fail. Actual Reality 202. Hint: Treating customers well is the best way to make money and "keep" that money coming. Customers will buy things they don't even really need if they feel they are being treated well. Each customer in my store is a guest. The moment you start with that tired "I can't make money if I treat you well" you will cease to make money. Simple as that.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:24 AM	To be honest I don't see the need to change to 4th Edition. I am happy with both the volume and quality of the stuff out there for 3.5(I also continue to use 3.0 material with slight tweaks). Sure I got a couple of house rules and something are outright banned, but I and my players are comfortable enough with the rules we can just play the game. I do plan on atleast buyinmg the core books and seeing what is new...hey I might steal some their ideas...make 3.75. Anyway only two things will get me to upgrade and that is if I think it is really a big improvement( like I thought it was from 2nd to 3rd) or if everybody else in my group wants to upgrade. I also might just start publishing stuff for 3.5...mmmm ah they'll probably close that open license agreement. Sounds honest...and if I buy the core that is what I would do.
zorgling25 08-17-07, 01:27 AM	The customers is how you make money....bottom line. Treat them like crap and they don't stay long, especially when there are other viable contenders with a product similar to your own. Its perfectly possible to run a business without spectacular customer support when your product is the best damn thing around. Providing good service isn't the only way to keep the customer happy. There's no point in arguing this right now. We have no sense currently of how good or how shabby 4E is going to be. That is and SHOULD be the only deciding factor in how many people switch over. Why should you let a lie almost a year old cloud your judgment in buying an excellent product?
Zousha_Omenohu 08-17-07, 01:30 AM	I don't know, maybe the fact that no matter how long a lie's been told, its still a lie. At least, that's how I was taught. For me it's not so much Wizards of the Coast's behavior as much as it is confusion over whether 4th Edition is going to be a D&D messiah or antichrist, if you'll indulge me the metaphor.
ArcTan 08-17-07, 01:32 AM	Why do some businesses with good customer service knock other businesses out of the loop daily? Treating the customer with respect. The bottom line with businesses is the customer is your boss. Lie to your boss enough and you are out of a job. Welcome to common sense and REAL BUSINESS practices 101. Businesses don't exist to lie to their customers which is what the post you quoted from me was actually about. Let's try to stay focused shall we? Keeping release dates and information about future products secret -- and deflecting questions about such if they arise -- is a standard real business practice. Only particularly whiny fans with a strong sense of entitlement actually consider this "lying" or consider themselves entitled to know a company's future plans (which, y'know, legally constitute a "trade secret" and grounds for *suing you* if you find out about them). WotC never actually lied. They said there were no definite plans to announce 4e. There weren't. However, 4e was being worked on the whole time in the background and they knew it would be announced *eventually*, just not exactly when. You'll notice they didn't shut everyone up by saying "We can absolutely guarantee 4e won't come out until sometime after 2010". They never said "I can categorically state no work has been done on 4e at all". They always covered their asses. That's what companies do. That's how you have to operate if you're in a competitive market environment. Only an idiot thinks he's required by the rules of "honesty" to make all his future plans public to all his customers. Businesses exist to provide services to their customers in exchange for compensation. Part of that service is treating the customer with respect. You seem to hold the customers to a certain standard that you don't hold a lying company to by claiming you will look at it with an "open mind." Fine do that...I will look at it too. But I must say... WotCs "minds" were not too open when they continously lied to their customers about not working on a 4E yet many have nothing to say about that. Followers never question their superiors. *sigh* Point me to an actual quote that says "We aren't working on 4e" and I'll leave you alone. But they never said any such thing. They conspicuously did *not* say it, which is why people kept pestering them about when 4e was coming out.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:34 AM	Its perfectly possible to run a business without spectacular customer support when your product is the best damn thing around. Providing good service isn't the only way to keep the customer happy. Again, as a business you have many bosses; the customers. It is your job to please them. Treat your boss(es) with disrespect and see how long you will have a job. You can't argue this with me. Customers are the lifeblood of your business. You treat them wrong too many times and eventually they seek the services you offer elsewhere. Especially in today's market where ANYONE can start a business. I own three businesses I know what I am talking about trust me. All this I can treat the customers like crap and just sell them stuff you guys keep pontificating is a losing battle in the overall scheme of things. Once you actually OWN businesses you'll see.
ArcTan 08-17-07, 01:34 AM	The customers is how you make money....bottom line. Treat them like crap and they don't stay long, especially when there are other viable contenders with a product similar to your own. I love how you pit treating customers well and making money at different ends of the spectrum. Let's hope you never start a business thinking like that. You'll fail. Hint: Treating customers well is the best way to make money and "keep" that money coming. Customers will buy things they don't even really need if they feel they are being treated well. Each customer in my store is a guest. The moment you start with that tired "I can't make money if I treat you well" you will cease to make money. Simple as that. Treating customers well doesn't mean giving your whiniest customers everything they want. If that were how it worked, then we'd know the projected release date of every movie in the world the moment the film got greenlighted. Do you know why movie studios don't do that? Because it would create many times more problems than it would solve. The Osborne Effect, for one thing. Multiplying the pressure on the creative staff and the time it would take to get everything done under the weight of enormous publicity and rumor pressures, for another. You just have to hang out on the D&D boards to realize that a lot of the people who post here are whiny jerks who, if they always got what they wanted, would ruin the game for everyone else and cause WotC to go bankrupt. Part of being a good service worker is being very firm and harsh with customers who are abusing their status as your customer. Otherwise, you encourage the abuse and allow it to continue, and you lose the ability to make a profit, sink into the mud and disappear. (This is why, in fact, waiters in restaurants, whose job it is to earn money for the restaurant, can and will kick me out of the restaurant and forgo my money if I act in a certain way.) I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this to people, but some people really seem to think like whiny children who imagine the company is their parents and their parents alone.
ArcTan 08-17-07, 01:37 AM	Dontgothere: Seriously, if I walked into your place of business as a prospective customer and demanded to be able to read every document in the place, see your accounts and bank balances, and review all your future plans, would I really get away with it? Would you really tell me everything? Honestly?
Kojiro James 08-17-07, 01:40 AM	Like I said in another thread, if 4e is drastically different from 3.x, I won't be using it for my campaign-in-the-works. However, I will buy 4e to participate as a player, meaning I'll likely only get the 4e PH and forget about the rest.
Gadodel 08-17-07, 01:41 AM	I've been playing D&D since 1979 and have concluded three opinions over the years: 1. D&D is a genre and mutually exclusive of any set of game mechanics. 2. Over the years my campaign setting has gone back and forth from houserules heavy to houserules light numerous times. 3. A new edition won't change the amount of fun I have with my campaign setting, which BTW; has been written up using a wide variety of game mechanics. The dice will still roll...
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:43 AM	I love how customers who don't agree with a company lying to them or back to back releases are painted as being "whiny." You have just proven that you and I have "nothing" to talk about sir.
Thakowsaizmu 08-17-07, 01:46 AM	Will 4e cause me to leave D&D? No. Will it cause me to not buy 4e? Yes.
boozerker 08-17-07, 01:47 AM	I'll look at 4th Edition with an open mind. So far, what I've read looks encouraging. What have you read? (link?)
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:50 AM	LoL!
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 01:54 AM	Edit: Delete
zorgling25 08-17-07, 02:00 AM	I love how customers who don't agree with a company lying to them or back to back releases are painted as being "whiny." Saying they don't agree with a company lying is one thing. Implying that it reflects on their product is completely different. You don't buy your books directly from a WotC representative. The only service you're getting from Wizards is the book itself, and maybe some errata or customer support answering your rules questions. So if the book is worth the money, why does anything else matter?
zorgling25 08-17-07, 02:01 AM	What have you read? (link?) Go to ENWorld. The press pack pdfs, along with some threads that have copy-pasted versions of the (now down) Wizard's site articles should be enough reading material for a while.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-17-07, 02:01 AM	I love how customers who don't agree with a company lying to them or back to back releases are painted as being "whiny." You have just proven that you and I have "nothing" to talk about sir. So, what exactly is your opinion on 4th Edition, anyways? Since you apparently own a store, I assume that you will be distributing it (unless said store is not in fact a gaming store as you seem to be implying). Besides, your profits will depend on the new system if only a little bit.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 02:22 AM	So, what exactly is your opinion on 4th Edition, anyways? Since you apparently own a store, I assume that you will be distributing it (unless said store is not in fact a gaming store as you seem to be implying). Besides, your profits will depend on the new system if only a little bit. Where did I imply that I own a gaming store? I said I own three businesses. Are you ok?
Zousha_Omenohu 08-17-07, 02:24 AM	Sorry, I have a hard time understanding things sometimes. Asperger's Syndrome and all. And it is about 1:30 in the morning where I am.
Dontgothere 08-17-07, 02:26 AM	Saying they don't agree with a company lying is one thing. Implying that it reflects on their product is completely different. You don't buy your books directly from a WotC representative. The only service you're getting from Wizards is the book itself, and maybe some errata or customer support answering your rules questions. So if the book is worth the money, why does anything else matter? There are plenty of companies that make RPGs today...and good ones. The one that will ultimately make the most is not the one with a good product but the one that has a larger customer base. Keep those bosses(i.e. the customers) happy. If I have to choose from companies that have the same thing to offer me I am going to choose the one that treats me the best as will the average consumer. Common sense really.
NobodyRemembersThis 08-17-07, 03:00 AM	The customers is how you make money....bottom line. Treat them like crap and they don't stay long, especially when there are other viable contenders with a product similar to your own.Customer loyalty at the expense of making money is bad business. Loyal customers are a nice perk. However, there will always be new customers. Also, take a look at Magic:the Gathering. Each new edition invalidates the old core for tournament play. Many of the older cards are either carried over (cards that don't need tweaking for the new rules) or are updated for the new rules (cards that do need tweaking for the new rules). Can you use the older cards with the newer cards? Yes. Can you get the newer versions and then cherry pick only the older cards you want? Most definitely yes. Will players still buy both? YES. Now, change a few words in that paragraph and you can apply it to d20 D&D.Each new edition invalidates the old core for tournament play. Many of the older classes/feats/spells/items/flavor are either carried over (classes/feats/spells/items/flavor that don't need tweaking for the new rules) or are updated for the new rules (classes/feats/spells/items/flavor that do need tweaking for the new rules). Can you use the older classes/feats/spells/items/flavor with the newer classes/feats/spells/items/flavor? Yes. Can you get the newer versions and then cherry pick only the older classes/feats/spells/items/flavor you want? Most definitely yes. Will players still buy both? YES.It is a fine business model, and it will keep D&D from dying. Unlike TSR's "Instead of updating the core of the game, we'll just release extras upon extras with ad infinitum" that nearly destroyed D&D. I can't wait. :)
ArcTan 08-17-07, 03:25 AM	I love how customers who don't agree with a company lying to them or back to back releases are painted as being "whiny." You have just proven that you and I have "nothing" to talk about sir. 5 years isn't "back-to-back" (we have presidential elections more often than that, Microsoft makes new operating systems more often than that, new models of cars come out more often than that). And you have yet to provide anything to back up your assertion that WotC "lied", rather than simply deflecting questions. *I* remember very clearly that each and every denial was carefully phrased "There are no immediate plans to announce the release of 4th edition", rather than "There will never be a 4th edition". Believe me, if WotC had ever said "There will never be a 4th edition" people would've been just as much if not more up in arms than they are now. If people perversely choose to read "There are no plans to announce..." as "There will never be..." or "We promise there won't be until 2010..." then that's their own damn fault. Look, I was *there* in these threads. I was *there*, being annoyed, when people chose to interpret WotC's coy denials in this or that totally screwed-up way ("4e is coming out TOMORROW!" "4e is NEVER coming out, ever, and they'll tell us at least 10 years before they do it!"). You're not going to convince me to misremember things your way just by shouting it loudly over and over.
ArcTan 08-17-07, 03:35 AM	There are plenty of companies that make RPGs today...and good ones. The one that will ultimately make the most is not the one with a good product but the one that has a larger customer base. Keep those bosses(i.e. the customers) happy. If I have to choose from companies that have the same thing to offer me I am going to choose the one that treats me the best as will the average consumer. Common sense really. And most people have a decent sense of priority about these things and actually care about the product *itself* rather than whether they were treated "rudely" by the service people. I mean, you keep couching this in terms of judging the *business*, but it almost sounds as if you're judging the *customers*. I once lived near a local restaurant with the best damn sandwiches in town. The guy behind the counter was an ass and it was always unpleasant to deal with him, but the sandwiches were worth it. People kept going. The restaurant stayed open. It almost sounds like you're accusing us of bad customers because we cared more about the sandwich than about whether the guy smiled at us. Which is, y'know, stupid. I can get smiles from my girlfriend if I want them. A fake smile instilled by some corporate training program means nothing to me, if I want a sandwich. Your preferences may be different. We all have different preferences. Whether our preferences are right or wrong is irrelevant -- businesses operate on what our preferences actually *are*. And, you know, most people understand the concept of "trade secrets" and don't care that much that a company does not disclose its 5-year R&D plan when you go to *buy a damn sandwich from them* (or an RPG book). That's all aside from the fact that no one was ever actually rude to a customer in any communication I've ever seen. Being politely dishonest about something that's none of your business is not being "rude" to you. (If you came up and asked me insistently "Are you gay? Are you gay? Are you gay?" I might just tell you "Yes" to get you to shut up and go away. The fact that I'm not really gay does not make me the rude one in that situation.) But they weren't even being dishonest -- at most, they were being dishonest for *a few months* when they stuck to the "There are no definite plans to announce the release of 4e" line when the definite plans to do so were coalescing. They've never lied in the sense of saying "We're not ever going to release 4e ever ha ha ha!!!" and then doing it. They've never said *anything* definite about whether 4e was happening or not -- that was the primary arrow in the quiver of the 4e conspiracy theorists, the fact that WotC would never come out and openly say "4e's not coming out". You still haven't answered me, Dontgothere, about your company accounts. In fact, I want to see your company accounts. I *demand* to see your company accounts. GIVE ME YOUR COMPANY ACCOUNTS RIGHT NOW, OR BY GOD YOU'LL NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH ME AGAIN! (The fact that Dontgothere is being so rabidly dogmatic that "The customer is always right" and that it's never good policy for a company to deny one particular customer anything tells me that his companies probably don't make anything that individual people buy off the street -- or, if they do, he himself has never actually worked at the level of having to serve people who come in and buy things off the street, nor has he worked at the level of PR and handling questions from random people off the street. Because then he would know what every clerk and every waiter and every bus driver in the world knows -- sometimes you have to tell one particular customer to f*** off and go away, in order to make money from your *other* customers.)
Braids 08-17-07, 04:02 AM	No, I still like D&D and the feel of D&D and the d20 system. However I will be playing a heavily modified version of the 3.5 rules and my group will be based off that.
shadzar 08-17-07, 04:05 AM	no i never really played D&D that much. i prefer AD&D. 4th edition will have no effect on my playing.
Steely_Dan 08-17-07, 04:13 AM	No, I still like D&D and the feel of D&D and the d20 system. I'm pretty sure they won't scrap the d20 system. …If they do, then that would be the straw that broke the blah blah.
Naderion 08-17-07, 07:26 AM	I really don't see why anyone would stop playing 3.5e only because there is also a 4th Ed. that he doesn't play anyway. I can't really understand why people should need a new Complete book every three months to enjoy the game. Most RPG players I know think 3.5e is a bit too simplistic because one can not do so many things. Wich is nonsense, because one can just make a rule on the fly for things not covered by the PHB, but I don't think a even more simplistic system would hold anything for me.
Crimhthan_The_Great 08-17-07, 07:56 AM	Alot of people seem to be ticked off at the speedy release of 4th Edition. My question is how many of the regulars here will be willing to spend tons of money on yet another set of core rulebooks along with supplements and how many will wash their hands of being treated like an ATM by WotC by dumping D&D or sticking with 3.5? I have no plans to stop playing D&D and switch to 4E.;)
Ecalsneerg 08-17-07, 08:03 AM	I will stop playing if 3.5 is no longer OGL. It means the Living Campaign I play will need to switch over immediately, and the cost is prohibitive. But, assuming it stays OGL, then I'll keep playing, as I can stagger the purchases.
Naderion 08-17-07, 08:16 AM	One critical thing about the OGL is, that it can never be revoked. Even if Wizards would like to cancel it, they couldn't, because they allready gave everyone an unlimited and irrevoceable license to use the SRD.
DCAnderson 08-17-07, 08:25 AM	If 4th edition releases, then this kitten dies: http://rudd-o.com/wp-content/uploads/images/funny/Kitten-gun.jpg
Zousha_Omenohu 08-17-07, 08:27 AM	That's a bit extreme don't you think? Don't hurt the poor little kitty!:weep: (Plus, you'll be holding that gun for about 7 months straight. Wouldn't your hand get tired?:D )
Phobos 08-17-07, 08:34 AM	Not at all. I left D&D back at the end of AD&D (with the Player's Handbook where they arer stealing the gem from the statue). I skipped the 2nd edition and 3rd, and only returned to 3.5e when I saw and read an Eberron book in early 2006. So, for me, the timing sucks becuase I just went and purchased over $300 in books over the last year. The core books and all the Eberron. So, next year I buy the three core books again and slowly wait for the Eberron revisions. In the end, it won't really be too different than me just buying a few books a month, or every few months, like I do now. What is an issue for me is that I do not receive broadband in my area, nor do I have any plans for a laptop. So, much of what Wizards is showing for the online tools, likely won't be usable by me.
RPGMom 08-17-07, 09:06 AM	This is Wizards making money. As a 34yr old gaming mom who has all the 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5 books... WotC will not be getting MY money for 4th edition. It's just stupid and a way to line their pockets. I never post as I'm a lurker but this is just garbage from WotC. 3.5 hasn't even been out 4 years. *shrugs and goes back to the shadows* You have disappointed me Wizards...
queenfange 08-17-07, 09:12 AM	If 4e is available through the OGL, I plan on just using the SRD. That's what I did for 3.5, and I see no reason not to do it again. Leave DnD? Of course not; I doubt anyone will do that. Am I ******? Yes- I just finally finished converting all my content into 3.5 from 3.0. Am I going to throw a royal hissy fit over it? Not here, at least. :)
WizO_Brak 08-17-07, 09:17 AM	Hello! In an attempt to keep the 4E discussion from overwhelming the other forums I'm going to close this thread and ask that it be continued in the Doomsday Thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905787 ~Brak