4th edition means...the end of Pun-Pun [Archive] - Wizards Community

4th edition means...the end of Pun-Pun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
boozerker
12-05-07, 11:25 PM With all new rules, the poor sap will no longer be possible to make. Another loophole character will have to step up.
HarlequinHelsing
12-05-07, 11:54 PM A sad day, indeed, when Pun-Pun fades into the forgotten multiverse. That being said, I can't wait for the Optimization boards to tear 4e to ribbons.

Maybe Pun-Pun will transcend the edition change, 'cause he's just that awesome.
Kayoz_Majick
12-05-07, 11:55 PM How will Pun-Pun no longer be able to be made?

I guess I should ask what changed so that it wouldn't be possible.
Tempest Stormwind
12-06-07, 12:05 AM How will Pun-Pun no longer be able to be made?

I guess I should ask what changed so that it wouldn't be possible.

4e isn't backward-compatible with 3e, meaning Serpent Kingdoms is no longer a valid book and that Manipulate Form doesn't exist in the 4e environment.
CCS
12-06-07, 12:15 AM 4e isn't backward-compatible with 3e, meaning Serpent Kingdoms is no longer a valid book and that Manipulate Form doesn't exist in the 4e environment.

And this prevents Pun-Pun how?
Pun-pun is a 3.x being. So as long as the existing 3.x books don't burst into flame (not at all likely) & there's a 3.x game running (very likely) he'll always be able to be made.
Besides, give WoTC a few years to crank out some retarded 4e books. In almost no time you'll be able to whip up Pun-Pun II....
Lokathor
12-06-07, 01:20 AM Pun-Pun will become a vestige like being in my 4E game for sure.
Belkar
12-06-07, 09:25 AM Pun-Pun already is a kobold vestige in my home games. :D

But yeah. 4th Edition comes... and I give CharOp three full weeks after release of PHB, and you'll see Pun-Pun Jr. up in no time. ;)
Seeker95
12-06-07, 09:53 AM Hip hip [pause] Hooray!
BlaineTog
12-06-07, 10:02 AM TRANSCEND EDITIONS [PSIONIC]
You not only have the ability to move your mind past all time and space, but even the structures of the laws of the rules themselves!
Requirements: Int 99+, Wis 99+, Cha 99+, must have Manipulate Form
Benefits: You gain compatibility with 4e.

There, fixed.
RobbyPants
12-06-07, 10:17 AM With all new rules, the poor sap will no longer be possible to make. Another loophole character will have to step up.
You just have to wait until enough splat books are published. By mid 2009, he should be back in a new updated form.

Maybe Pun-Pun will transcend the edition change, 'cause he's just that awesome.
Well, reading the Pun Pun thread, Kahn mentions that Manipulate Form isn't limited to existing Ex, Sp, and Su abilities, it's just that in that thread, they only used existing abilities. So, all you need to do is create one, like BlaineTog did. Now he's all set.
larry_the_titan
12-07-07, 08:16 AM I am surprised that this many people want the legacy of Pun Pun continue. I figured that people would praise his death. But the Opts Board are already gearing up to break 4th ed right when it comes out. Every book past the first will just add to the powers they can pull out of the game. I think Pun Pun should the future Rank of the most broken being in 4th ed till a real Pun Pun is made.
Rogue Shadows
12-07-07, 09:26 AM I figured that people would praise his death.

Why in God's name would we do that? It's Pun-Pun! He beats anything with stats! He's a kobold!

He's just too awesom to kill.
RobbyPants
12-07-07, 11:31 AM I am surprised that this many people want the legacy of Pun Pun continue. I figured that people would praise his death. But the Opts Board are already gearing up to break 4th ed right when it comes out. Every book past the first will just add to the powers they can pull out of the game. I think Pun Pun should the future Rank of the most broken being in 4th ed till a real Pun Pun is made.
Technically, yes, I would like to see WotC put out a game that does not have any exploitable holes in it. I would also like to see supliments put out by WotC seamlessly fit into the existing core material without any exploitable holes.

Still, past practice and common sense suggests that that's nearly impossible. There's always some little oversight, be it odd wording, RAW vs RAI, or blatant overpoweredness that makes some things better than others. I'm sure that out of the core published classes, some classes will be more powerful than others. I'm sure some spells will be highly abusable in the right circumstances. And with more and more matieral getting introduced, I'm sure each splatbook will introduce new combinations of brokenness.

So, while I'd like to see an edition where Pun Pun (or the hulking hurler war hulk, or the betrayer of shar, or cheater of mysteria) wouldn't be possible, I think given enough time, it will happen again.
Belkar
12-07-07, 11:33 AM I am surprised that this many people want the legacy of Pun Pun continue.

It's not so much like we "want" or "don't want" Pun-Pun to continue - he just does...

It's like a force of nature. It really doesn't matter if I "want" the sun to come up or a blizzard to hit Montana... it's still going to happen. ;)
Joni-san
12-07-07, 11:46 AM In my opinion, it would be so awesome if Pun-Pun was mentioned in one of the 4'th Ed corebooks.
PhaedrusXY
12-07-07, 12:12 PM TRANSCEND EDITIONS [PSIONIC]
You not only have the ability to move your mind past all time and space, but even the structures of the laws of the rules themselves!
Requirements: Int 99+, Wis 99+, Cha 99+, must have Manipulate Form
Benefits: You gain compatibility with 4e.

There, fixed.Nah, he doesn't even need that. All he has to do is use Iron Heart Surge. "With a roar of effort...". :D
Tempest Stormwind
12-07-07, 12:12 PM Perhaps as a deity or warlock patron, but it wouldn't be directly (i.e. "[X] was once a kobold with a grand vision, who happened upon the secret of true power and ascended to divinity through sheer force of will."). They did something similar in an Eberron book, joking about Gruumsh (identifying a local aspect of Dol Dorn as Garu-Umesh the One-Eyed).

I don't want Pun-Pun to continue. I would see that reference as an homage (which'd be totally awesome), nothing more.
Qube
12-07-07, 01:38 PM I don't want Pun-Pun to continue. I would see that reference as an homage (which'd be totally awesome), nothing more.QFT, perhaps some item the kobold main god has, or an artifact ...
Rogue Shadows
12-08-07, 10:30 AM Hells. Make Pun-Pun the Kobold main god. I don't think people have any particular attachment to Kurtulmak, and even those that do (i.e., me) probably wouldn't be too displeased to have him pushed aside for the glory and power that is Pun-Pun (I wouldn't be).

Alternatiely, Pun-Pun could be a part of the kobold pantheon as Kurtulmak's champion, or the Emperor of some kobold empire, the driving force behind its expansion and power.
Scrooge
12-09-07, 01:14 PM I would actually like to see Pun-Pun as the god of Kobolds, though I assume they would have copyright difficulties with his creators. However, the name Pun-pun is neither god-like nor Kobold-like, so I would have that changed upon ascension.
eamon
12-09-07, 02:26 PM There can never be Pun-Pun II.

The all-powerful Pun Pun will prevent him from being!
larry_the_titan
12-09-07, 03:34 PM I think the name should stay the same because who would insult an Over Deity just because his name didn't sound right.
Ecalsneerg
12-09-07, 04:11 PM If D&D has a God called Blipboolbloop (or whatever), is Pun pun really a stretch?
boozerker
12-09-07, 04:16 PM Whoever made up the Pun-Pun name did so under the old forum rules, so they don't own that name, Wizards does. So if Pun-Pun were ever to be published in a later edition... :D

Actually, I doubt Wizards would encorce copyright protection to any homebrew from the older boards. It's just a funny twist: Wizards owns Pun-Pun.

But funnier is the unknown story of how Pun-Pun came to be. Have you ever noticed many of the books are very human-centric? Yeah, WotC is biased to humans and it shows in their hiring practices. So a clever kobold from their janitors crew took matters into its own hands. It snuck into the proofreader's lounge where sat the master copy of Serpent Kingdoms, and the kobold secretly inserted the loopholes that allow Pun-Pun.

The kobold, named Run-Run, has since been relieved (legend says), but it's a hero to many kobold player-groups who complain there aren't enough kobold hero archetypes in the D&D books. Some of those groups have "all Pun-Pun" parties, and don't seem to mind the uber-cosmic power levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boozerker 12-05-07, 11:25 PM	With all new rules, the poor sap will no longer be possible to make. Another loophole character will have to step up.
HarlequinHelsing 12-05-07, 11:54 PM	A sad day, indeed, when Pun-Pun fades into the forgotten multiverse. That being said, I can't wait for the Optimization boards to tear 4e to ribbons. Maybe Pun-Pun will transcend the edition change, 'cause he's just that awesome.
Kayoz_Majick 12-05-07, 11:55 PM	How will Pun-Pun no longer be able to be made? I guess I should ask what changed so that it wouldn't be possible.
Tempest Stormwind 12-06-07, 12:05 AM	How will Pun-Pun no longer be able to be made? I guess I should ask what changed so that it wouldn't be possible. 4e isn't backward-compatible with 3e, meaning Serpent Kingdoms is no longer a valid book and that Manipulate Form doesn't exist in the 4e environment.
CCS 12-06-07, 12:15 AM	4e isn't backward-compatible with 3e, meaning Serpent Kingdoms is no longer a valid book and that Manipulate Form doesn't exist in the 4e environment. And this prevents Pun-Pun how? Pun-pun is a 3.x being. So as long as the existing 3.x books don't burst into flame (not at all likely) & there's a 3.x game running (very likely) he'll always be able to be made. Besides, give WoTC a few years to crank out some retarded 4e books. In almost no time you'll be able to whip up Pun-Pun II....
Lokathor 12-06-07, 01:20 AM	Pun-Pun will become a vestige like being in my 4E game for sure.
Belkar 12-06-07, 09:25 AM	Pun-Pun already is a kobold vestige in my home games. :D But yeah. 4th Edition comes... and I give CharOp three full weeks after release of PHB, and you'll see Pun-Pun Jr. up in no time. ;)
Seeker95 12-06-07, 09:53 AM	Hip hip [pause] Hooray!
BlaineTog 12-06-07, 10:02 AM	TRANSCEND EDITIONS [PSIONIC] You not only have the ability to move your mind past all time and space, but even the structures of the laws of the rules themselves! Requirements: Int 99+, Wis 99+, Cha 99+, must have Manipulate Form Benefits: You gain compatibility with 4e. There, fixed.
RobbyPants 12-06-07, 10:17 AM	With all new rules, the poor sap will no longer be possible to make. Another loophole character will have to step up. You just have to wait until enough splat books are published. By mid 2009, he should be back in a new updated form. Maybe Pun-Pun will transcend the edition change, 'cause he's just that awesome. Well, reading the Pun Pun thread, Kahn mentions that Manipulate Form isn't limited to existing Ex, Sp, and Su abilities, it's just that in that thread, they only used existing abilities. So, all you need to do is create one, like BlaineTog did. Now he's all set.
larry_the_titan 12-07-07, 08:16 AM	I am surprised that this many people want the legacy of Pun Pun continue. I figured that people would praise his death. But the Opts Board are already gearing up to break 4th ed right when it comes out. Every book past the first will just add to the powers they can pull out of the game. I think Pun Pun should the future Rank of the most broken being in 4th ed till a real Pun Pun is made.
Rogue Shadows 12-07-07, 09:26 AM	I figured that people would praise his death. Why in God's name would we do that? It's Pun-Pun! He beats anything with stats! He's a kobold! He's just too awesom to kill.
RobbyPants 12-07-07, 11:31 AM	I am surprised that this many people want the legacy of Pun Pun continue. I figured that people would praise his death. But the Opts Board are already gearing up to break 4th ed right when it comes out. Every book past the first will just add to the powers they can pull out of the game. I think Pun Pun should the future Rank of the most broken being in 4th ed till a real Pun Pun is made. Technically, yes, I would like to see WotC put out a game that does not have any exploitable holes in it. I would also like to see supliments put out by WotC seamlessly fit into the existing core material without any exploitable holes. Still, past practice and common sense suggests that that's nearly impossible. There's always some little oversight, be it odd wording, RAW vs RAI, or blatant overpoweredness that makes some things better than others. I'm sure that out of the core published classes, some classes will be more powerful than others. I'm sure some spells will be highly abusable in the right circumstances. And with more and more matieral getting introduced, I'm sure each splatbook will introduce new combinations of brokenness. So, while I'd like to see an edition where Pun Pun (or the hulking hurler war hulk, or the betrayer of shar, or cheater of mysteria) wouldn't be possible, I think given enough time, it will happen again.
Belkar 12-07-07, 11:33 AM	I am surprised that this many people want the legacy of Pun Pun continue. It's not so much like we "want" or "don't want" Pun-Pun to continue - he just does... It's like a force of nature. It really doesn't matter if I "want" the sun to come up or a blizzard to hit Montana... it's still going to happen. ;)
Joni-san 12-07-07, 11:46 AM	In my opinion, it would be so awesome if Pun-Pun was mentioned in one of the 4'th Ed corebooks.
PhaedrusXY 12-07-07, 12:12 PM	TRANSCEND EDITIONS [PSIONIC] You not only have the ability to move your mind past all time and space, but even the structures of the laws of the rules themselves! Requirements: Int 99+, Wis 99+, Cha 99+, must have Manipulate Form Benefits: You gain compatibility with 4e. There, fixed.Nah, he doesn't even need that. All he has to do is use Iron Heart Surge. "With a roar of effort...". :D
Tempest Stormwind 12-07-07, 12:12 PM	Perhaps as a deity or warlock patron, but it wouldn't be directly (i.e. "[X] was once a kobold with a grand vision, who happened upon the secret of true power and ascended to divinity through sheer force of will."). They did something similar in an Eberron book, joking about Gruumsh (identifying a local aspect of Dol Dorn as Garu-Umesh the One-Eyed). I don't want Pun-Pun to continue. I would see that reference as an homage (which'd be totally awesome), nothing more.
Qube 12-07-07, 01:38 PM	I don't want Pun-Pun to continue. I would see that reference as an homage (which'd be totally awesome), nothing more.QFT, perhaps some item the kobold main god has, or an artifact ...
Rogue Shadows 12-08-07, 10:30 AM	Hells. Make Pun-Pun the Kobold main god. I don't think people have any particular attachment to Kurtulmak, and even those that do (i.e., me) probably wouldn't be too displeased to have him pushed aside for the glory and power that is Pun-Pun (I wouldn't be). Alternatiely, Pun-Pun could be a part of the kobold pantheon as Kurtulmak's champion, or the Emperor of some kobold empire, the driving force behind its expansion and power.
Scrooge 12-09-07, 01:14 PM	I would actually like to see Pun-Pun as the god of Kobolds, though I assume they would have copyright difficulties with his creators. However, the name Pun-pun is neither god-like nor Kobold-like, so I would have that changed upon ascension.
eamon 12-09-07, 02:26 PM	There can never be Pun-Pun II. The all-powerful Pun Pun will prevent him from being!
larry_the_titan 12-09-07, 03:34 PM	I think the name should stay the same because who would insult an Over Deity just because his name didn't sound right.
Ecalsneerg 12-09-07, 04:11 PM	If D&D has a God called Blipboolbloop (or whatever), is Pun pun really a stretch?
boozerker 12-09-07, 04:16 PM	Whoever made up the Pun-Pun name did so under the old forum rules, so they don't own that name, Wizards does. So if Pun-Pun were ever to be published in a later edition... :D Actually, I doubt Wizards would encorce copyright protection to any homebrew from the older boards. It's just a funny twist: Wizards owns Pun-Pun. But funnier is the unknown story of how Pun-Pun came to be. Have you ever noticed many of the books are very human-centric? Yeah, WotC is biased to humans and it shows in their hiring practices. So a clever kobold from their janitors crew took matters into its own hands. It snuck into the proofreader's lounge where sat the master copy of Serpent Kingdoms, and the kobold secretly inserted the loopholes that allow Pun-Pun. The kobold, named Run-Run, has since been relieved (legend says), but it's a hero to many kobold player-groups who complain there aren't enough kobold hero archetypes in the D&D books. Some of those groups have "all Pun-Pun" parties, and don't seem to mind the uber-cosmic power levels.