? about nonlethal damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

? about nonlethal damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
iamsparrow
08-09-07, 06:19 PM I'm new to these forums so if this question is in the wrong place let me know. I've been away from the game awhile to.

Do you subtract nonlethal damage from your normal hp or is it its own set of hp?
Theres a spot on the character sheet for it so I cant figure if I need to put something there when making my character. Also when you fall unconscious what does you hp drop to?
ArcTan
08-09-07, 06:40 PM Nonlethal damage never "subtracts" from your HP.

Instead, you keep a running, positive nonlethal damage total (if you take 10 nonlethal and you already have 25 nonlethal damage, you now have 35 nonlethal damage). Nonlethal damage starts at 0, and naturally heals much more quickly than lethal damage: You subtract your level from your nonlethal damage total every hour (so if you're level 10 and you have 35 nonlethal, it's all gone in four hours), while your HP only heals by your level every *day* (35 HP damage takes four days to go away).

The rule is that if your current nonlethal damage total exceeds your current HP total, you fall unconscious. Falling unconscious doesn't change your real HP, and after an hour, you'll heal some nonlethal damage and you immediately become conscious again.

This means you can fall unconscious either by taking nonlethal damage (increasing your nonlethal damage total) or taking lethal damage (decreasing your HP total). If I have 35 nonlethal damage and 40 HP, and someone hits me for 5 lethal damage, now my nonlethal damage equals my total HP -- 35 and 35 -- and I fall unconscious.

Make sense?
iamsparrow
08-09-07, 07:28 PM so if you have any nonlethal damage, lethal damage can add to that total?
ArcTan
08-09-07, 07:53 PM so if you have any nonlethal damage, lethal damage can add to that total?

No. The nonlethal damage stays the same. Lethal damage can reduce the total amount of nonlethal you need to go unconscious.

If I start with 20 HP, and I take 5 nonlethal damage, I now have 5 nonlethal and 20 HP. If I then take 15 *lethal* damage, my HP goes down to 5 but my nonlethal damage stays the same.

The key thing is that I go unconscious when my nonlethal damage equals my HP. That can happen either by my nonlethal staying at 5 and my HP going down to 5, or my HP staying at 20 and my nonlethal going *up* to 20.

Basically it works out that, yes, doing lethal damage to someone with nonlethal damage makes them go unconscious faster. But the important thing is to keep the two numbers totally separate, because they don't affect *each other* -- nonlethal damage is nonlethal damage, and HP is HP (and HP only goes down from lethal damage).
iamsparrow
08-09-07, 08:26 PM ok so lets say i have 25 hp and 20 nonlethal. If I lose even 5 Hp Ill fall uncontious because my nonlethal damage equals my current hp. 20/20. Ok I think I get it now. from a roleplaying point of view its like walking into a fight already beat up. I only have 2 questions.

1. How can you get rid of it before a fight?...spells, heal checks,ect?

2. How long do I remain unconscious Is i till another player heals or interveins or is it a certain nnumber of turns?
ArcTan
08-09-07, 09:04 PM ok so lets say i have 25 hp and 20 nonlethal. If I lose even 5 Hp Ill fall uncontious because my nonlethal damage equals my current hp. 20/20. Ok I think I get it now. from a roleplaying point of view its like walking into a fight already beat up.

Actually, I misled you a little. You only fall unconscious if nonlethal *exceeds* current HP -- i.e. you get knocked out if you have 26 nonlethal damage and 25 HP.

If nonlethal and HP are exactly equal -- 25 and 25 -- you're "staggered". That means you can only take one standard action or one move action per round, rather than being able to take both a standard action or move action, as normal. (You can't run up and hit someone -- you can either move or attack, that's it.)

It's the equivalent of how you only become "unconscious and dying" if your HP are actually negative (-1 to -10), but if your HP are exactly 0 you're instead "disabled".

I only have 2 questions.

1. How can you get rid of it before a fight?...spells, heal checks,ect?

Any magic that heals lethal damage (restores HP) heals nonlethal damage (makes nonlethal damage go down).

Heal checks aren't really useful for nonlethal damage -- the only way to make nonlethal damage go down without magic is to sit around for a few hours.

2. How long do I remain unconscious Is i till another player heals or interveins or is it a certain nnumber of turns?

You remain unconscious until your nonlethal damage goes down below your HP total. This is determined by your level -- you lose your level's worth in nonlethal damage every hour.

So, for example, a 5th-level character loses 5 nonlethal damage every hour, representing his ability to "shake off" the pain and disorientation. If he currently has 33 nonlethal damage and 25 HP, it'll take two hours for him to wake up from unconsciousness (after the first hour he's at 28 nonlethal and 25 HP, still unconscious; after the second he's at 23 nonlethal and 25 HP, and awake).

Anything another player can do to change your nonlethal damage total or your HP total can help wake you up. Healing magic usually does both, since it heals lethal damage (and increases your HP total) and nonlethal damage (and decreases your nonlethal damage total).

So in the above situation, assuming the character's total possible HP is higher than 25 and he's only at 25 HP because he's taken lethal damage, another character could wake him up just by casting cure light wounds, for, say, 6 points of healing. That reduces nonlethal damage by 6 -- to 27 -- *and* increases HP by 6 -- to 31 -- and he's instantly awake.
Eater_Of_Souls
08-10-07, 04:21 AM Easy way to explain, add both your lethal and nonlethal together if they add more then your HP total you're unconsius.
Simple as that nonlethal can also go to 0 after which (in most cases) you start taking lethal damage instead.
Geogoose
08-10-07, 12:48 PM Does that even work? A fighter with 100 maximum HP who currently has 5 HP and 10 nonlethal damage is unconcious. 5 HP + 10 Nonlethal Damage = 15, which is a far cry from 100. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say?
zorgling25
08-10-07, 01:20 PM Does that even work? A fighter with 100 maximum HP who currently has 5 HP and 10 nonlethal damage is unconcious. 5 HP + 10 Nonlethal Damage = 15, which is a far cry from 100. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say?

Um...
Nonlethal Damage = 10
Lethal Damage = 95 (100 max hp - 5 current hp)
Total = 105 (exceeds max, so unconscious)
iamsparrow
08-10-07, 07:44 PM thanks, that helped alot.
ArcTan
08-10-07, 07:59 PM Easy way to explain, add both your lethal and nonlethal together if they add more then your HP total you're unconsius.
Simple as that nonlethal can also go to 0 after which (in most cases) you start taking lethal damage instead.

Well, broadly, yes, but you shouldn't explain it that way.

Lethal damage, by default, isn't counted as a positive number. You don't count your "lethal damage", you subtract lethal damage from HP and count HP. Likewise, nonlethal damage does not go "down" toward 0 -- it goes steadily upward and has no maximum.

Only in a very few instances does nonlethal convert to lethal damage upon unconsciousness -- mainly when you're talking about picking up nonlethal damage from environmental effects like heat or cold.

If someone's hitting you for nonlethal damage, they just keep hitting you for more and more nonlethal damage. By definition, you can *never* get killed by a merciful longsword -- it just increases your nonlethal damage to a ridiculous amount, so you have to wait around for several days till you wake up.
Eater_Of_Souls
08-11-07, 03:32 AM I checked and yes indeed the official rule is you can have a 1000 000 points of non lethal but you still won't die which doesn't make much sence tbh, since this would also mean you cannot die from hanging if it wouldn't have a special rules...

Variant I use has more sense to it for unarmed combat, bar brawls and other sources where you might take both lethal and nonlethal damage.

Edit: checked my current campaing book for compariosn with players guide and there is another variant which is the same as usual rules but counts from your current hitpoints.
So if you would have 10/50 hp left and take 11 sudual your uncoinsious, unlike in players guide where you would need 50 hitpoints worth of subdual to be unconcious ...

Either variant works better then the one in 3.5 PHB imho.
Tedronai
08-11-07, 03:32 AM Actually, a Merciful weapon makes for hilarious coup de grace fun

A coup de grace forces a fortitude save of 10+damage dealt vs death. That's 'DAMAGE', not 'LETHAL DAMAGE', or physical damage, or base damage, or.... So, yes, a Merciful sword can kill you, but you're already unconscious, and someone else was going to kill you anyway. (Think of it like using that sap to crush their larynx. They're not getting up from that)
Merciful can also be turned off, removing the damage bonus, but returning the (usual) lethality to the weapon.

MMMmmm...+1 Vicious, Merciful, Maiming, Thundering, Deadly Precision Scyth...
zorgling25
08-11-07, 09:01 AM Edit: checked my current campaing book for compariosn with players guide and there is another variant which is the same as usual rules but counts from your current hitpoints.
So if you would have 10/50 hp left and take 11 sudual your uncoinsious, unlike in players guide where you would need 50 hitpoints worth of subdual to be unconcious ...

Either variant works better then the one in 3.5 PHB imho.

Um, you'd be unconscious too in this system...
Lethal Damage = 40
Subdual Damage = 11
40+11=51>50

Yours isn't actually a variant, per se, more than a different way of counting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
iamsparrow 08-09-07, 06:19 PM	I'm new to these forums so if this question is in the wrong place let me know. I've been away from the game awhile to. Do you subtract nonlethal damage from your normal hp or is it its own set of hp? Theres a spot on the character sheet for it so I cant figure if I need to put something there when making my character. Also when you fall unconscious what does you hp drop to?
ArcTan 08-09-07, 06:40 PM	Nonlethal damage never "subtracts" from your HP. Instead, you keep a running, positive nonlethal damage total (if you take 10 nonlethal and you already have 25 nonlethal damage, you now have 35 nonlethal damage). Nonlethal damage starts at 0, and naturally heals much more quickly than lethal damage: You subtract your level from your nonlethal damage total every hour (so if you're level 10 and you have 35 nonlethal, it's all gone in four hours), while your HP only heals by your level every day (35 HP damage takes four days to go away). The rule is that if your current nonlethal damage total exceeds your current HP total, you fall unconscious. Falling unconscious doesn't change your real HP, and after an hour, you'll heal some nonlethal damage and you immediately become conscious again. This means you can fall unconscious either by taking nonlethal damage (increasing your nonlethal damage total) or taking lethal damage (decreasing your HP total). If I have 35 nonlethal damage and 40 HP, and someone hits me for 5 lethal damage, now my nonlethal damage equals my total HP -- 35 and 35 -- and I fall unconscious. Make sense?
iamsparrow 08-09-07, 07:28 PM	so if you have any nonlethal damage, lethal damage can add to that total?
ArcTan 08-09-07, 07:53 PM	so if you have any nonlethal damage, lethal damage can add to that total? No. The nonlethal damage stays the same. Lethal damage can reduce the total amount of nonlethal you need to go unconscious. If I start with 20 HP, and I take 5 nonlethal damage, I now have 5 nonlethal and 20 HP. If I then take 15 lethal damage, my HP goes down to 5 but my nonlethal damage stays the same. The key thing is that I go unconscious when my nonlethal damage equals my HP. That can happen either by my nonlethal staying at 5 and my HP going down to 5, or my HP staying at 20 and my nonlethal going up to 20. Basically it works out that, yes, doing lethal damage to someone with nonlethal damage makes them go unconscious faster. But the important thing is to keep the two numbers totally separate, because they don't affect each other -- nonlethal damage is nonlethal damage, and HP is HP (and HP only goes down from lethal damage).
iamsparrow 08-09-07, 08:26 PM	ok so lets say i have 25 hp and 20 nonlethal. If I lose even 5 Hp Ill fall uncontious because my nonlethal damage equals my current hp. 20/20. Ok I think I get it now. from a roleplaying point of view its like walking into a fight already beat up. I only have 2 questions. 1. How can you get rid of it before a fight?...spells, heal checks,ect? 2. How long do I remain unconscious Is i till another player heals or interveins or is it a certain nnumber of turns?
ArcTan 08-09-07, 09:04 PM	ok so lets say i have 25 hp and 20 nonlethal. If I lose even 5 Hp Ill fall uncontious because my nonlethal damage equals my current hp. 20/20. Ok I think I get it now. from a roleplaying point of view its like walking into a fight already beat up. Actually, I misled you a little. You only fall unconscious if nonlethal exceeds current HP -- i.e. you get knocked out if you have 26 nonlethal damage and 25 HP. If nonlethal and HP are exactly equal -- 25 and 25 -- you're "staggered". That means you can only take one standard action or one move action per round, rather than being able to take both a standard action or move action, as normal. (You can't run up and hit someone -- you can either move or attack, that's it.) It's the equivalent of how you only become "unconscious and dying" if your HP are actually negative (-1 to -10), but if your HP are exactly 0 you're instead "disabled". I only have 2 questions. 1. How can you get rid of it before a fight?...spells, heal checks,ect? Any magic that heals lethal damage (restores HP) heals nonlethal damage (makes nonlethal damage go down). Heal checks aren't really useful for nonlethal damage -- the only way to make nonlethal damage go down without magic is to sit around for a few hours. 2. How long do I remain unconscious Is i till another player heals or interveins or is it a certain nnumber of turns? You remain unconscious until your nonlethal damage goes down below your HP total. This is determined by your level -- you lose your level's worth in nonlethal damage every hour. So, for example, a 5th-level character loses 5 nonlethal damage every hour, representing his ability to "shake off" the pain and disorientation. If he currently has 33 nonlethal damage and 25 HP, it'll take two hours for him to wake up from unconsciousness (after the first hour he's at 28 nonlethal and 25 HP, still unconscious; after the second he's at 23 nonlethal and 25 HP, and awake). Anything another player can do to change your nonlethal damage total or your HP total can help wake you up. Healing magic usually does both, since it heals lethal damage (and increases your HP total) and nonlethal damage (and decreases your nonlethal damage total). So in the above situation, assuming the character's total possible HP is higher than 25 and he's only at 25 HP because he's taken lethal damage, another character could wake him up just by casting cure light wounds, for, say, 6 points of healing. That reduces nonlethal damage by 6 -- to 27 -- and increases HP by 6 -- to 31 -- and he's instantly awake.
Eater_Of_Souls 08-10-07, 04:21 AM	Easy way to explain, add both your lethal and nonlethal together if they add more then your HP total you're unconsius. Simple as that nonlethal can also go to 0 after which (in most cases) you start taking lethal damage instead.
Geogoose 08-10-07, 12:48 PM	Does that even work? A fighter with 100 maximum HP who currently has 5 HP and 10 nonlethal damage is unconcious. 5 HP + 10 Nonlethal Damage = 15, which is a far cry from 100. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say?
zorgling25 08-10-07, 01:20 PM	Does that even work? A fighter with 100 maximum HP who currently has 5 HP and 10 nonlethal damage is unconcious. 5 HP + 10 Nonlethal Damage = 15, which is a far cry from 100. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say? Um... Nonlethal Damage = 10 Lethal Damage = 95 (100 max hp - 5 current hp) Total = 105 (exceeds max, so unconscious)
iamsparrow 08-10-07, 07:44 PM	thanks, that helped alot.
ArcTan 08-10-07, 07:59 PM	Easy way to explain, add both your lethal and nonlethal together if they add more then your HP total you're unconsius. Simple as that nonlethal can also go to 0 after which (in most cases) you start taking lethal damage instead. Well, broadly, yes, but you shouldn't explain it that way. Lethal damage, by default, isn't counted as a positive number. You don't count your "lethal damage", you subtract lethal damage from HP and count HP. Likewise, nonlethal damage does not go "down" toward 0 -- it goes steadily upward and has no maximum. Only in a very few instances does nonlethal convert to lethal damage upon unconsciousness -- mainly when you're talking about picking up nonlethal damage from environmental effects like heat or cold. If someone's hitting you for nonlethal damage, they just keep hitting you for more and more nonlethal damage. By definition, you can never get killed by a merciful longsword -- it just increases your nonlethal damage to a ridiculous amount, so you have to wait around for several days till you wake up.
Eater_Of_Souls 08-11-07, 03:32 AM	I checked and yes indeed the official rule is you can have a 1000 000 points of non lethal but you still won't die which doesn't make much sence tbh, since this would also mean you cannot die from hanging if it wouldn't have a special rules... Variant I use has more sense to it for unarmed combat, bar brawls and other sources where you might take both lethal and nonlethal damage. Edit: checked my current campaing book for compariosn with players guide and there is another variant which is the same as usual rules but counts from your current hitpoints. So if you would have 10/50 hp left and take 11 sudual your uncoinsious, unlike in players guide where you would need 50 hitpoints worth of subdual to be unconcious ... Either variant works better then the one in 3.5 PHB imho.
Tedronai 08-11-07, 03:32 AM	Actually, a Merciful weapon makes for hilarious coup de grace fun A coup de grace forces a fortitude save of 10+damage dealt vs death. That's 'DAMAGE', not 'LETHAL DAMAGE', or physical damage, or base damage, or.... So, yes, a Merciful sword can kill you, but you're already unconscious, and someone else was going to kill you anyway. (Think of it like using that sap to crush their larynx. They're not getting up from that) Merciful can also be turned off, removing the damage bonus, but returning the (usual) lethality to the weapon. MMMmmm...+1 Vicious, Merciful, Maiming, Thundering, Deadly Precision Scyth...
zorgling25 08-11-07, 09:01 AM	Edit: checked my current campaing book for compariosn with players guide and there is another variant which is the same as usual rules but counts from your current hitpoints. So if you would have 10/50 hp left and take 11 sudual your uncoinsious, unlike in players guide where you would need 50 hitpoints worth of subdual to be unconcious ... Either variant works better then the one in 3.5 PHB imho. Um, you'd be unconscious too in this system... Lethal Damage = 40 Subdual Damage = 11 40+11=51>50 Yours isn't actually a variant, per se, more than a different way of counting.