Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Witchcraft 01-02-07, 02:52 PM	Bonjour!!! I have heard many things about Jack Vance, such as he created the Vancian Magic System. If I have heard correctly, his system was based on some books he wrote. Could you, the wonderful board viewers, tell me some of his book titles? I would love to buy/rent some. I am a huge magic/wizard/mage fan so anybook that really focuses on mage/wizards would be W.O.N.D.E.R.F.U.L! ! ! ~*~Sorcellerie~*~
Solaris 01-02-07, 02:54 PM	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dying_Earth
Anaxander 01-02-07, 03:03 PM	I personally liked Cugel and Rhialto's stories. Be prepared for a mix of fantasy and science-fiction and some non-stereotypical stories and characters (dumb and arrogant mages, unsympathetic protagonists, strange storylines which do not lead to somewhere at all etc).
caeruleus 01-02-07, 03:10 PM	The first book isn't as exciting, but the later three are quite fun to read (the first is still worth reading, though). They're all collected in one volume that you can check out here (http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Dying-Earth-Jack-Vance/dp/0312874561/sr=8-1/qid=1167768306/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4195918-2876701?ie=UTF8&s=books). Enjoy the books, once you pick them up! I have heard many things about Jack Vance, such as he created the Vancian Magic System. He had the idea of memorize-cast-and-forget. Gary Gygax used that basic idea for the Vancian system we know today.
caeruleus 01-02-07, 03:16 PM	I am a huge magic/wizard/mage fan so anybook that really focuses on mage/wizards would be W.O.N.D.E.R.F.U.L! ! ! Oh, and they all don't just focus on wizards. The last book, Rhialto the Marvellous, is mainly about wizards (somewhat unusual wizards, but wizards nonetheless), but The Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga are about Cugel the Clever, who's more of a roguish-type (although he's able to prepare and cast spells). The first book, Dying Earth, is a collection of vaguely connected stories, some of which include wizards. You'll find other things that influenced D&D, such as a spell called the Excellent Prismatic Spray, and IOUN stones (although these are nothing like the ioun stones of D&D).
Anaxander 01-02-07, 03:18 PM	and IOUN stones (although these are nothing like the ioun stones of D&D). Well, they DO float and circle around you... but most of them burn up when used (which opens a completely new line of magical items...)
d24478667 01-02-07, 03:32 PM	The first book isn't as exciting, but the later three are quite fun to read (the first is still worth reading, though). They're all collected in one volume that you can check out here (http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Dying-Earth-Jack-Vance/dp/0312874561/sr=8-1/qid=1167768306/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4195918-2876701?ie=UTF8&s=books). Got that one for Xmas, and it is quite interesting.
CharlieRock 01-02-07, 04:30 PM	There was a sourcebook published a bit ago for Jack Vance's world for tabletop rpgs. :)
speeblefreak 01-02-07, 05:22 PM	I was just about to smite the OP for trolling... ...then I realized I was thinking of the wrong Jack. :banghead: Haven't seen any of his books. Nothing constructive to add. Go on about your business.
Witchcraft 01-02-07, 05:43 PM	I just looked at the link to Amazon and it didnt look alot like fantasy. It looks more like sci-fi, or is like..oh what does my book store people call it...SHADOWRUN!!! That is it!!! Is it like "Shadowrun"? ~*~Witcy Crafty~*~
Xylem 01-02-07, 11:11 PM	The first book isn't as exciting, but the later three are quite fun to read (the first is still worth reading, though). They're all collected in one volume that you can check out here (http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Dying-Earth-Jack-Vance/dp/0312874561/sr=8-1/qid=1167768306/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4195918-2876701?ie=UTF8&s=books). Enjoy the books, once you pick them up! Tastes vary. I think the linked short story structure of the first book is absolutely brilliant writing, while the later three books are good too, they strike me as a lot less special.
caeruleus 01-03-07, 01:50 AM	I just looked at the link to Amazon and it didnt look alot like fantasy. It looks more like sci-fi, or is like..oh what does my book store people call it...SHADOWRUN!!! That is it!!! Is it like "Shadowrun"? I'm not familiar with Shadowrun, so I can't comment about that specifically. But I'd say that Dying Earth is mainly fantasy with some sci-fi elements. It's basically supposed to be our world in the far, far, FAR future. It's nothing like your typical Tolkien-inspired fantasy, and I'd recommend it for precisely that reason. (Nothing against work inspired by Tolkien, it's just nice to try something different.) Tastes vary. I think the linked short story structure of the first book is absolutely brilliant writing, while the later three books are good too, they strike me as a lot less special. Fair enough, all my comments should be understood as reflecting my own tastes. It was cool how the stories were linked, I just preferred the later books (especially the two Cugel books).
CharlieRock 01-03-07, 04:47 AM	I just looked at the link to Amazon and it didnt look alot like fantasy. It looks more like sci-fi, or is like..oh what does my book store people call it...SHADOWRUN!!! That is it!!! Is it like "Shadowrun"? ~*~Witcy Crafty~*~ It is definitely NOT Shadowrun. If you like Shadowrun, the books by Bruce Sterling or William Gibson are much closer. Jack Vance is somewhat more Heinlein-ish (IMO).
Metamagick 01-03-07, 09:51 PM	I havent read the book but I want to. However, I have read your comments I have noticed it you guy saying it isnt like LotR. So is their no elves or anything? A quick summary of it (not to detailed we dont want to break any laws) would be wonderful!!! Thanks --Metamagick--
Xylem 01-03-07, 11:27 PM	I havent read the book but I want to. However, I have read your comments I have noticed it you guy saying it isnt like LotR. So is their no elves or anything? A quick summary of it (not to detailed we dont want to break any laws) would be wonderful!!! Thanks --Metamagick-- The Dying Earth stories are more about setting and style than any specific plot. They are set in a far, far distant future where the sun is dimming and dying and the 99% of what was once known has been lost and the remaining knowledge is a mix of science, magic and other things. The world is full of ruins and ancient artifacts and slumbering powers. The writing is lyrical and ironic, and sort of a cross between Clark Ashton Smith and Gene Wolfe with a touch of Dan Simmons.
Anaxander 01-04-07, 02:24 AM	The writing is lyrical and ironic, and sort of a cross between Clark Ashton Smith and Gene Wolfe with a touch of Dan Simmons. Add to that Vance's protagonists are more anti-heroes than heroes... which is also quite untypical for the fantasy genre.
Solaris 01-04-07, 02:35 AM	Add to that Vance's protagonists are more anti-heroes than heroes... which is also quite untypical for the fantasy genre. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Elric of Melniboné, Conan the Barbarian, Thomas Covenant, Raistlin Majere...
Anaxander 01-04-07, 02:57 AM	Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Elric of Melniboné, Conan the Barbarian, Thomas Covenant, Raistlin Majere... Sure there are others, and most often good ones, but most fantasy books I have read deal with the humble youngster which grows into an epic hero. In the deathgate cycle one could say that Haplo turns from an anti-hero into a hero. But, like Darth Vader, Dracula and Conan, he was a cool anti-hero. Most of Vance's protoganists (like Rhialto!) are petty and selfish bastards. They are true anti-heroes.
Monteblanco 01-04-07, 04:28 AM	Vance protagonists in the Dying Earth are truly anti-heroes. You may laugh with them but they more often will shock you with their arrogance and selfness behaviour. As the sun is already red and old, people at Earth are expecting it to destroy the planet at any time. As such, people are somewhat free of their moral restraints as they live as there would not have a tomorrow. Enough to say that Vance has little faith in humanity capacity for goodness. It is a great book and it is definitely fantasy. Science is sometimes described to evolved to magic but, as there is no further explanation, it behave as magic to the readers. An interesting view to D&D players, as vancian magic is much more convincing explained (Vance is a much more suited to the task than Gygax or any WotC writer) and further developed in the later books (with the introduction of Sandestines), that came out after Gygax have adapted it to D&D. Another great series from Vance with the same magical system is Lyonesse. There are three books in the series: Suldrum's Garden, The Green Pearl, and Madouc. They are all good, whereas the first is fantastic and can be read without the later ones. The Dying Earth was adapted to a roleplaying game by Pelgrane Press. It is a great game, although quite unusual to a fantasy RPG. Lyonesse was adapted by a French publisher, but I don't known anything about it.