Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bansheeman 02-26-06, 10:52 PM	Hello all im sure many of you would like to work for a gaming company and be part of the process that puts those hardback books in our living room but my question is how do i get there. I am currently a sophomore in High School and i am wondering what type of classes i should take in order to pursue a career in Gaming or anything that stretches my creative muscle. If i do take these classes what is the likleyhood of actually being hired by a company such as WOTC or something like that. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Seeker95 02-27-06, 11:24 AM	In high school? Just graduate. In college? Business is probably your best bet overall. Creative writing if you want to be a writer / designer. Graphic design / Art if you want to be an illustrator.
ssampier 02-27-06, 11:53 AM	It depends on what area you want to go into. Writing, editing, layout, proofreading, illustration? If you're interested in actually writing rule books, it can be a difficult industry to break into (all the competition and all). Salaries are fairly low (I vaguely remember someone stating a full time game designer of a LARGE company--like Wizards--pays $30,000 a year, not good). Freelancers, the majority of designers in the industry, make a very small portion of that. Of course you'll be doing what you love, which may or may not be more important than money. As for college courses, most designers probably have an English background. English or Creative Writing classes would definately help. I, however, would take a variety of classes to see what classes interest you the most and major or minor in that. For now, read as many books as you can and write everyday. I know Monte Cook had some writing advice on his website years ago. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Draco Strang 02-27-06, 04:29 PM	Well first off, let me wish you all the luck I can wish. I've got buddies that wanna design video games for a living, and their professors have told them statistically, it's a harder field to break into than professional sports like baseball and basketball. There are far fewer slots available than in sports, and we all know how many high-school hopefuls are gonna "go pro." That said, all of the above advice is pretty sound. Read every day, write every day, and imagine every day. Sci-fi, Horror, Fantasy, History, and every other genre that's even remotely related to gaming. This will give you a kick-ass vocabulary and an idea on how to structure your writing. If you want into the art end, then draw every day. Buy and examine the work of every fantasy/sci-fi artist you can afford. Emulate their styles, invent your own, and come up with new ideas. As far as college degrees, my video-game friends are in Digital Design at University of Cincinnati, one of the best institutes in the country for that sort of work. Graphic Design and Art are good solid majors to stand on, as are English/Journalism if you want to write. Of course, if you're talented enough it wont really matter what major you have. Also, (this is pure speculation on my part) but I'm betting that in the next 5 years or so, there will be an even larger percentage of 3rd-party publishers that exist wholly in the pdf market. It's cheaper and easier process to get published electronically than in a hardcover format. So...that's something to think about. Just because WOTC or White Wolf won't hire you doesn't mean you can't design games for a living. Good luck.
weasel fierce 02-27-06, 11:03 PM	As a general rule, dont expect to make much money, and have a second job as well. THe majority of writers "in the business" are freelancers, even for big companies like Wizards, White wolf, SJ games or Games Workshop (well, maybe they are the exception, but then, mini's sell better than rpg books in most cases). Also, be aware that you will be relying on luck. I got a historical wargame published through more or less blind luck. Of course, both creative writing, layout and art has the advantage of offering you skills that you can also use elsewhere, and thats not a bad thing at all :)
Pennarin 02-27-06, 11:47 PM	WotC already has ressources availlable to would be writers/designers, through the form of tests. Check out this page called the RPG Design Test (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20050930b). As far as I can tell from reading the page (ex. Deadline: We will be considering submissions on an ongoing basis.), sending in your test in 2006 can still work for you. If you are planning a future career in writing/designing, then hunt for such a webpage in the future, there will probably be one existing at the time. In any work involving writing, such as fiction or rpg, or even medical textbooks, there will always be a crucial need for near-perfect english. If you provide employement to the proofreading department all by yourself, the company will not keep you employed. Thus your best bet for such an avenue is an intensive college-level english program. Creative writing courses, as already mentionned by someone else, is your next stop. Like someone pointed out, if current trends continue, the future will hold even more companies that create quality rpg material, just like today's d20-publishing companies. You may find seeking employement from these companies easier to accomplish than with the leading publishing company of the time, simply due to their small size and few employes.
Flakster 02-27-06, 11:58 PM	Does anyone know of a good website to showcase works on? I've looked around for a while know and haven't found a good place to display some of my writing for others to critique. I was looking for one that would give me my own little homepage and portfolio, kind of like Deviant art, but for writing not art.
Gnarl 02-28-06, 02:39 AM	Pretty much has been said I guess. It's gona be hard but worth a try. Regardless of what you're planning on doing with your life, keep your head up if you fail, it's nothing to be ashamed of. And make sure you have a backup plan.
Rechan 02-28-06, 03:18 AM	I'll just add this: A lot of people are focusing on the writing and RPG construction. One avenue you might want to pursue is business. Why? While lots of gamers know how to game, very few know how to run a business. If you can do business and all that jazz, you might be able to get your foot in the door (and possibly, if it doesn't work, have a fall back).
sherretz 02-28-06, 07:45 AM	Your high school should offer some sort of senior-level creative writing class to get you started. Do what the guys above said, and read and write every day. Also, work on designing your own adventures. Check out both Dungeon Magazine and Dragon Magazine, and submit works to them as well as through the Wizards website. In the meantime, do what you can to know the rules well and do a bunch of DMing with your gaming group. The more you know about how a group runs, the better off you'll be. Finally, attend conventions (GenCon, etc.) so you can get experience with players you aren't familiar with. This will help you polish your designing skills to make your work more universal. Check the websites for the conventions and see if you can sign up as a DM and/or submit your adventure for use at the convention. The more face time / publicity you can give yourself with the designers, the better chance you'll have.
jpat93 02-28-06, 03:01 PM	Good advice all around, I think. Without trying to be discouraging, I'd reinforce the bit about not expecting to make game writing/design a full-time occupation. One manuscript I edited (over about a 30-40 hour period) has so far netted me less than $2 in return as a percent of the sales. I was also briefly associated with a fellow who'd put out a perfect-bound campaign setting--right around 300 pages, and pretty good work, too--but who ended up, I think, eating most of the inventory and getting out of the d20 racket. There are happier stories out there, of course, but it's good to just be cautious and not plan one's life around this sort of thing. If it works out, great; if not, there are lots of other kinds of writing/editing/design work out there.
Smilinggm 03-01-06, 12:55 AM	Hello all im sure many of you would like to work for a gaming company and be part of the process that puts those hardback books in our living room but my question is how do i get there. I am currently a sophomore in High School and i am wondering what type of classes i should take in order to pursue a career in Gaming or anything that stretches my creative muscle. If i do take these classes what is the likleyhood of actually being hired by a company such as WOTC or something like that. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Step 1: Make The Grades to Qualify for Your Schools Honors Program ie Put your studies before gaming. I suggest focusing on Honors Math and Honors English/Lit. Get in the Habbit of Writing 500 to 1000 words daily! Step 2: Graduate Your High School with Honors This would mean putting your studies before gaming. Step 3: Enroll in college Dual Major in Engeneering and English/Lit Focus on your studies. Contiue Writing Increase your word count to 5000 words per day. Start submitting your writing for publication. Read Each Rejection letter as advice. Step 4: Graduate College with Honors in both Degrees Step 5: Enroll in Grad School Focus on Science and English . Step 6: Graduate Grad School with honors. Take a job using your engineering degree, and continue to Write and Game on the side. With what little money you make as a game writer/designer you will be able to pay for your gaming habbit. Your real income will be from your main job. BTW if you dobut this path Check out the careers of J R R Tolken Issaac Isimov Arthur C. CLark Fredric Poll And Many other Great Writers. Lastly Remember that Playing D&D is a hobby. It is a great and fun hobby. For Most When Your Hobby becomes work your hobby stops being fun. Study Hard and Write ALOT!
sherretz 03-01-06, 10:24 AM	Smilinggm, that is a great path in a Utopian setting. Honors engineering can only be accomplished by a priveleged few. I, for one, didn't need to know Laplace Transforms (among other obscure math/engineering techniques) THAT well, and didn't want to. The workload that a double honors major like that would result in two things: - a kickass degree that won't get you much more than a standard BSME - a person with not enough real-life experiences to be useful in writing Now granted, most of the great writers were closet cases anyway. However, almost all of them ended up with some sort of psychological problem (recluse, OCD, etc.). Finally, grad honors degrees are only worth anything if the OP is planning on becoming a professor or researcher of some kind. (my personal opinion, but it's backed up by what I've experienced) I can make more money over time and be more respected in my field as an engineer with more work experience and less school experience. Other options allow him to live a "normal" life with more experiences while still being able to write on a regular basis. I agree Smilinggm's suggestions for word count, though weekly vs. daily. The more used you are to writing in general, the easier it will be for you to communicate your thoughts to readers.
shadowpavement 03-01-06, 11:05 AM	(I vaguely remember someone stating a full time game designer of a LARGE company--like Wizards--pays $30,000 a year, not good). Not Good? Man. I'm a Physicist and have been teaching for 4 years and would kill to make that kind of money. And even though I make crap as a teacher my fiancé and I have still managed to buy a decent sized house in Maine, whcih has some of the crapiest taxes in the nation, as well as paying for oil all winter, which is an acompishment all it's own around here. You can do pretty well on 30k a year.
Draco Strang 03-01-06, 12:13 PM	You can do pretty well on 30k a year. You can do even better on 45-60k a year, which is what's being considered Entry-Friggin-Level for a lot of jobs nowadays, from engineering to business to even the service industry. Don't get me wrong, I think teachers should make an ass-ton more than they do starting out. A lot of teachers go back to school, get their master's, and start doing really well after about 10 years in the biz. Factor in being done every day by 3 or 4, free weekends, summers, major holidays, and snowdays. Not too shabby.
DanjaNinja 03-01-06, 02:05 PM	Don't get me wrong, I think teachers should make an ass-ton more than they do starting out. A lot of teachers go back to school, get their master's, and start doing really well after about 10 years in the biz. Factor in being done every day by 3 or 4, free weekends, summers, major holidays, and snowdays. Not too shabby. :uh-huh: Hardly.
Escef 03-01-06, 08:22 PM	:uh-huh: Hardly. Agreed. Ask a teacher how much homework they do. Ask them how much money out of their own pockets goes to school supplies. Ask them how they plan on getting kids to remember what they're being taught longer than the end of the next test. As for how to be game designer, as near as I can see the key is just work freelance in the industry and send out the occasional resume and/or manuscript proposal. Heck, Richard Garfield (the man who invented Magic: the Gathering) was just a guy with a mathmatics PhD trying to peddle some crazy little idea for a game he made up. And he ended up changing the face of the gaming industry more than anyone since Gygax.
Draco Strang 03-02-06, 12:59 AM	Agreed. Ask a teacher how much homework they do. Ask them how much money out of their own pockets goes to school supplies. Ask them how they plan on getting kids to remember what they're being taught longer than the end of the next test. Oh, no arguments there either. I know grading assignments, planning lessons and figuring out how to manage the little boogers in the classroom takes a lot of time out-of-classroom. I know that good teachers do burn some of their income buying extra stuff for the classroom. Still, I know a lot of teachers that have a second income by doing something else over the summer. My physics teacher roofed, my 6th grade reading teacher operated a tollbooth on the weekends, my high school english teacher owned a horse boarding service, etc. ad nauseum. Seriously though man....weekends, summers, and snowdays. How sweet is that?
DanjaNinja 03-02-06, 02:53 AM	Still, I know a lot of teachers that have a second income by doing something else over the summer. My physics teacher roofed, my 6th grade reading teacher operated a tollbooth on the weekends, my high school english teacher owned a horse boarding service, etc. ad nauseum. I don't get it. Are you trying to say that needing a second job to get by is a good thing? Seriously though man....weekends, summers, and snowdays. How sweet is that? Let me try again. :uh-huh: :uh-huh: :uh-huh: You seem to be seriously underestimating the amount of time above and beyond school hours teachers spend working (trivia: they don't get overtime). We're not even talking about the "good" or "devoted" ones here.
Burner2501 03-02-06, 07:27 AM	Typically teachers work 2 to 3 hours at home for every hour they are in the school setting. That generally eats up all weeknights and most of the weekends, leaving things like holidays and snowdays to catch up. Summers are typically taken up with additional college and other training due to more requirements for teachers to keep up with a constant education process of their own. So, if you don't mind putting education of others first, not having much of a social life other than chatting with your students and their parents and really don't mind the low pay and being underappreciated, you could try for teaching. I have a few friends who teach and they wouldn't give up the job for the world, seeing students learn, being their biggest encouragement. As for a career in the gaming industry, you are probably better off going the business route for the points mentioned above that few gamers go into that aspect of the field, and we all know how non-gamers work as business people in game companies. ;) But, if you want to be an illustrator or writer I suggest sticking with your schooling along those lines and not let gaming get in the way of the best grades you can attain. In other words, make your teachers proud.
shadowpavement 03-03-06, 12:43 PM	We just got out new teaching contracts and I'm now actually getting 30,000 a year. WOO HOO!! :dancin:
ssampier 03-05-06, 02:47 AM	Not Good? Man. I'm a Physicist and have been teaching for 4 years and would kill to make that kind of money. And even though I make crap as a teacher my fiancé and I have still managed to buy a decent sized house in Maine, whcih has some of the crapiest taxes in the nation, as well as paying for oil all winter, which is an acompishment all it's own around here. You can do pretty well on 30k a year. I'd be quite happy with 30k, too, but not everyone has the same experience, especially with housing pricing as they are. :mad: And don't forgot that salary figure is for professional game designers--the best of the industry. Most make a small fraction of that. Someone once told me a rule-of-thumb is to make at least 1k * age. In my case, I'm 25 so I should ideally make at least $25,000/year. I'm not there yet, but I wonder if that's city salaries? I live in the country so cost of living and salaries are much less.
Marc_R 03-05-06, 01:48 PM	Different part of the countries make a HUGE difference on this, of course. I'm 37 and make about $43 K a year, which is pretty good for where I live but it's nothing great. I know many people my age that make much more, so to me, reading that 'top' game designers make about $30 K would turn me off pretty quickly! I had some experience many years ago working with a smaller game company (this is pre D&D third edition and all the D20 companies). The RPG they put out was actually nominated for Best New Game at Origins that year. Anyway, I worked on a part time / freelance basis while still working my full time job, so I made out ok, but I think you really have to be very good, very lucky AND do it for the love of gaming FIRST and then hope like heck you can make some big money eventually ... probably by being hired sooner or later by WoTC or something and then rising up through the ranks there. All in all, your best bet is to have a full time job and do the game design, writing etc thing on the side, at leat at first.
ssampier 03-06-06, 02:41 PM	Good points Marc. Do you mind if I ask what you do? I currently work in tech support, but I'm hoping to advice to web development/design; eventually I hope to be a DBA. The part-time advice is spot-on. Even "big" d20 companies like Necromancer Games is a part-time job for co-owners Bill and Clark.
Draco Strang 03-06-06, 04:35 PM	I don't get it. Are you trying to say that needing a second job to get by is a good thing? No, what I'm saying is that when given such large blocks of free time (i.e., the summer break) a lot of teachers choose to supplement their already respectable income by doing something else, usually something that is a hobby or enjoyed occupation. They don't have to work an offseason job, but when faced with the prospect of lounging around,playing golf, and shopping all summer, lots prefer to generate a little extra cash instead. Granted, some teachers make very, very little. Like ones that teach at small private schools and ones that are hired into exremely poor districts. Let me try again. :uh-huh: :uh-huh: :uh-huh: You seem to be seriously underestimating the amount of time above and beyond school hours teachers spend working (trivia: they don't get overtime). We're not even talking about the "good" or "devoted" ones here. Oh, I understand it. Both of my parents are ex-teachers who moved onto other professions, and I vividly remember my dad not being able to play Duckhunt with me because he had to examine project proposals for his shop classes, or my mother telling my older sister to tuck me in because she had a load of practical nursing exams to wade through. And I remember having to ride the bus over to the high school when I was 8 years old because one (or both) of my parents had after-school obligations to fulfill there, and there would be no one to watch me at home. Yes, time outside of the classroom (and sometimes lots of it) is necessary for about 98% of the teachers out there. I recognize this and my comments about teacher being a fairly sweet gig still stand. I also understand the concept of negotiated salary contracts, and the absence of overtime pay. But let's not forget the (usually) excellent health/dental/vision care and retirement benefits. Or the paid-for graduate schooling that a lot of teachers take advantage of when it's offered by their districts. Truth of the matter is, when compared with many entry-level professional jobs, teaching scores pretty well. No, they aren't making the kind of money that a dentist or investment banker makes, but you'll have that.
DanjaNinja 03-06-06, 04:43 PM	Draco Strang, you and I seem to be living in vastly different realities. But I think this is enough threadjacking for now.
Draco Strang 03-06-06, 05:04 PM	Draco Strang, you and I seem to be living in vastly different realities. But I think this is enough threadjacking for now. If you say so man. Most teachers I know that like their jobs wouldn't trade them for anything short of winning the lottery. I draw my conclusions based on those kind of endorsements. But you're right...dead issue.
ssampier 03-07-06, 01:07 AM	I could not find those writing tips on Monte Cook's website, but I dug out my copies: Writing exercises (http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/sesampier/Exercises_Handout.rtf) Active voice (http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/sesampier/Passive_Handout.rtf) Top 10 (http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/sesampier/Top10_Handout-1.rtf) World (http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/sesampier/World_Handout.rtf)