Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CattleProdMan 02-01-06, 01:36 AM	Quite frankly, I am at wits end over my current situation. I have no one to talk to who can relate to my current situation. Therefore, I have decided to go to the source. The best place to talk about Dungeons and Dragons is on a Dungeons and Dragons board. I have been playing D&D since 2nd edition. I've been in D&D action most of my life as a matter of fact. I wouldn't say I am necessarily one of the best players, or even a very good one for that matter. The time has come for our group to start playing again and problems are already apparent. With no prior knowledge from our DM whatsoever, a few of the players decided to start making characters for the upcoming game. The only information we were given was regarding level, available races, and available classes. There seems to be a major utilization of the new "Complete" and "Races" books for version 3.5. I decided to make a sorcerer for my character. Very rarely do I ever make arcane spellcasters. I decided that I didn't want to make a combat mage at all. I took various utility and illusion spells, and absolutely no direct damage spells. Another one of our players, and a close friend of mine, decided they wanted to make an archer of some sort. He didn't want anything absolutely special or powerful. The two of us had agreed upon making a ranger/fighter cross class setup. The way we intended to design the character was to make him somewhat decent at combat, but not a heaping bowl of combat macaroni and cheese. Our DM was not at all pleased with our characters. He was incredibly upset that I was not a damage mage, and suggested that he redesign my friend's character for optimum damage. In others words, he wanted to powergame the characters. The both of us didn't really want that. And thusly, he told us flat out that our characters were not going to last in this game. This particular DM is notorious for railroading his players in dungeons crawlers and making us play mods with very little character interaction or any in depth dialog. The characters tend to have the depth of cardboard. This DM also happens to be a very close personal friend to me as well. However, none of the players really want to be part of a railroaded game. None of us really want to have cookie cutter characters in a cookie cutter setting fighting cookie cutter enemies. The whole situation is a fricken baking sheet about to be put in the oven. Considering very dear friends are at stake here, the oven seems to be getting pretty hot. Our history of gaming has been horrible these past few years. We have played other games with of DMs and GMs. Heck, I've ran a few games myself. And with these other games, he doesn't appreciate those either. He states that most people "roll-play" D&D and a very small handful of people "role-play" D&D. He even says that the way we want to play is completely wrong. And to make matters worse, he's not making a compromise and letting us come to a happy medium. Can someone please help me and my friends? I'm afraid years of friendship are about to go down the tubes. I appreciate you all for taking the time to listen and the potential chance someone will respond.
Kalanth 02-01-06, 02:01 AM	I know a guy that shares that same view, damn shame really. Constantly tells me that the original vision of D&D was to be a number crunching mini game much like Chainmail was. Constantly tells me that when TSR took over the product they stabbed Gygax in the back (before the 2nd ed eventual selling to WoTC) and changed the game into a Roleplaying game instead of the mini war game. I have decide to no longer talk to that friend about D&D because his views make me rather angry, and I have no need to talk to a brick wall. I suggest the same here. Explain to your friend that even if he does not agree, you guys like to ROLEPLAY. He can either conform and try to play your style of game (Either as DM or PC) or he can take a break from the game, go away for a while, and come back latter when he thinks he can handle the real way to play the game. Point out the fact that if the number of Roleplayers is so low in comparison to Roll Players, then why are they putting blocks of RP suggestions into the PrC and PC classes now? Why are there so many sections of each of the newer splat books that also contain RP advice? If you loose a friend because you disagree on a style, then was he really your friend? If he can compromise and be a part of a group that is there to have fun, you will be better for it.
OmiKapSi 02-01-06, 02:14 AM	That's a rough situation. I'd recommend establishing with everyone involved that D&D is just a game, and people should not be getting emotionally attached to what goes on at the game table. It's like throwing a hissy fit when someone takes a pawn in a chess game. As for the problem DM, there are several approaches to this. One approach is to help him realize that these games are interactive, and require some give and take on the part of the DM and players. They are a group effort, not 'DM tells players a story' or 'DM responds to players decisions'. There has to be some compromise, or the game will bomb. I've seen it happen plenty of times. Now, this isn't to say that he should turn around and re-create his adventures to become all roleplaying. He should, if he's reasonable, be willing to rework some of his material to allow for flexibility. And if he's worried about the characters not being able to handle his encounters, he should allow you guys to play higher level characters. A non-optimized higher level character should be on par with an optimized lower level character. Another possibility is to just say "This is my character, and I'm keeping it." No DM should allow players to make their characters, and then turn around after the fact and say that they should play with the characters he's telling them to play. Be ready for if the character dies with another. Don't put as much effort into future characters though. Your DM should smarten up. If he doesn't, simply explain to him that you're not finding the game fun any more and leave. Finally, you could just try playing the game the way he plays it. Take a quick look over on the character optimization boards, haul a character off of there, and play it. It's possible that you might even turn the tables, some of the stuff that crops up over there is pretty sick. Bottom line is, whatever you do, if he gets upset that you find his game boring, that's not a sign of emotional maturity. Different people have different preferences, and if he's not going to respect yours, that's hardly your problem. Oh, and if he wants to just engage in hack and slash battles, point him to the D&D miniatures skirmish game.
MrBrown 02-01-06, 02:35 AM	As a general comment, if you are good friends, then you should be able to come to an understanding that your tastes differ so much that you can't play a game together. I don't really see much other choice here, unfortunately. And as a sidenote, non-optimized does not equal roleplaying.
Seanamal 02-01-06, 02:42 AM	I'd get all your friends togeather and have an intervention. If your roll-playing friend persists in being a putz tell him you'll play mini games with him but no more D&D. You've got to explain to him that if his players arn't having fun, what is the point of playing. In a vaguely associated anecdote. I once was playing a game of D&D with Two friends of mine and 2 friends of theirs. Now one of my friends was DMing and the two guys who I didn't know well were playing D&D for the first time. Sounds like fun right? Unfortunetly only the DM and I weren't stoned. I've never heard the words "why am I rolling the dice?" uttered so often. It was downright painful. So I sabotaged the game and brought it to a crashing halt. Of course the DM was ****** and the other guys were too high to care. So after the DM yelled at me for ten minutes I asked him if he had been having fun endlessly repeating himself to the baked players. He suddenly realized I did him a favor. After a few beers we understood each other and added yet another meta-rule to D&D: "D&D and dope don't mix."
IceFractal 02-01-06, 03:23 AM	Sounds like you might just have incompatible play styles, and the DM doesn't seem like the type to compromise. I mean, its a good idea to warn players if their characters look like they're going to have trouble surviving - but trying to force you to be a blasting machine? Not really in the spirit of things - D&D is supposed to be fun for the players too, not just the DM. Oh, and incidentally, an illusion-based Sorcerer is too weak? Methinks your DM doesn't know the class very well - illusion based types are more versatile and often more survivable than "cannon" types. I'd just play with the character that you want to - although be prepared for death, as the DM might specifically throw the tough stuff at you to "prove" that you need to be more combat-oriented. If things work out, great. If the play style is just not fun for you, then just explain that and find a different group. And if you basically like playing but the DM keeps targetting your characters because they're not "strong enough", then go check out the CO board and find some titanically powerful build. After one game with that, the DM will probably be quite happy to let you play your normal type of characters.
Ralphius_Maximus 02-01-06, 03:25 AM	Unless the GM keeps up a constant stream of encounters throughout hte session, there's no way he can really prevent you from Pole-playing. In my experience, it is a very rare GM who can keep a game on track when the players are trying to do something different. Simply play the game the way you and your friends want to and let the poor bugger try to keep up. Be aware that this will slow the pace of the game to a crawl until the GM catches on and starts working with you rather than against you. A simple example might be an in-character argument about the best way to enter an unexplored section of a dungeon. If you have PC's with very different approaches, this can go on for ages, while the monsters at the other end of the corridor get bored and find a deck of cards.
KismetRose 02-01-06, 04:48 AM	It sounds like the players here desire a different style of gaming than the DM has run before. You can try to talk to your DM about meshing your styles and reaching a compromise. It can be difficult for DMs to bridge the distance between their styles and the desires of players, but it's only fair that it be done. You might also want to consider running, or having another one of the players run. That way, you can set up the type of game you would like and maybe give your DM a chance to play (if he wants to).
MrBrown 02-01-06, 05:02 AM	In my experience, it is a very rare GM who can keep a game on track when the players are trying to do something different. Simply play the game the way you and your friends want to and let the poor bugger try to keep up. Be aware that this will slow the pace of the game to a crawl until the GM catches on and starts working with you rather than against you.Actually, I think there's a good chance the GM became a railroading GM simply because he thinks the players are just fooling around and not focusing on the game. I'm not very convinced that simply going against a GM's GMing style will make every GM change it.
Ut-Napishtim 02-01-06, 09:11 AM	Well you could always pick him up a copy of Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering. It's a cheap little book (practically a pamphlet really) that doesn't take long to read. Alternatively the similar gamemastering section of the DMG II contains much of the same stuff (Robin Laws' contribution to the book), but more focused towards D&D. In fact that would probably be even better. In my experience it really takes a lot of practice before a DM gets to be any good. It takes time to learn that being the DM means yes you can force people to play your way, but that that's not particularly fun for them. A little related reading might help him get more interested in running a game that balances the players desires, rather than simply shoehorning his own on you. :twocents:
Zherog 02-01-06, 10:07 AM	And as a sidenote, non-optimized does not equal roleplaying. Thanks, MrBrown - I was going to say it the other way. Having an optimized character does not preclude you from roleplaying the character well. (and note, also, that it's quite possible to optimize an arcane caster without any direct damage spells).
Dumat 02-01-06, 10:09 AM	I bet the guy is himself a roll-player. Or a bad roleplayer and doesn't want to deal with it. I'm both a DM and a player, and not the best at either, but I do try to adapt my style to the players' tastes. Heck if your group likes roleplaying so much more than combat encounters, check out some old Dragon Magazines for tips on social encounter XP. It's not too hard. The point is everyone has fun. Why not have a rotating DM rule? Everyone has to DM at least once every so often?
Frylord 02-01-06, 10:58 AM	If he wants to hack and slash and supreme builds, that sort of thing, make pun pun and slaughter his monsters.
DisposableHero_ 02-01-06, 11:24 AM	(and note, also, that it's quite possible to optimize an arcane caster without any direct damage spells).Actually, CO consensus is that direct damage spells are among the worst options an arcane caster has at their disposal at higher levels, and the damage dealing in a party should be left the warrior types who do not expend spell slots to do it.
Vacerious 02-01-06, 11:42 AM	If he wants to hack and slash and supreme builds, that sort of thing, make pun pun and slaughter his monsters. Boo! Bad advice! It even says on the CO boards that pun-pun is not to be used as a player character. To the OP: Wouldn't this post belong better in the "What's a player to do?" board? My only advice comes in the form of a quote from a friend of mine (who, ironically, has a similar view to the DM in the OP): "Sometimes, the best type of vengeance is success." Keep you characters and make them survive. Test his roleplaying abilities by interacting with NPC's, and when combat roles around, use those nice illusion spells to break the enemie's morale while your friend pelts them with poisoned arrows. And that's my two cents.
CattleProdMan 02-01-06, 12:02 PM	First of all, I would like to thank you all for your input thus far. More people responded to this than I had anticipated. As a matter of fact, I posted this right before I went to bed and read your replies first thing in the morning. I am impressed with you folks. Unfortunately, the major problem that arises is that the DM won't move at all to a compromise. In all honesty, I believe I am going to still use the illusionist for the game and just do the best I can to not die. As for my friend with the ranger/fighter build, he is willing to wait it out with me as well. So I suppose we'll be stuck in hack n' slash games for a while until people start saying something. And also unfortunately, I am the only one who will openly say something. On a related note, is anyone willing to help me create a nice illusionist build? I figure if my DM wants me to optimize, I might as well and just completely avoid his combat macaroni and cheese.
Zherog 02-01-06, 12:23 PM	On a related note, is anyone willing to help me create a nice illusionist build? I figure if my DM wants me to optimize, I might as well and just completely avoid his combat macaroni and cheese. The best place for that is over on the Character Optimization forum. If you go there to seek advice, you need to provide as much information as possible. Here's some things they'll want to know: books you have access to any houserules you know about rules for creating your character (point buy, roll dice for abilities, etc); this would include what level character you're starting with, how much you can spend on equipment, and so on I'd also link them to this thread, so they can learn about your problems with the DM. That'd get you a real good start, anyway.
CaveDemon 02-01-06, 12:57 PM	I used to have two roll players in my group (We have 2 DMs,me and my brother). Was horrid when we tried to get the group to role-play. Anyways they where al new to D&D and had a problem getting used to it, the two roll-players would push the group off the game whenever it was getting boring for them. So we kindly voted them out of the group, and because we where explaining all along that D&D shouldn't be connected with real life (bad and good) they took it fairly and where still my friends untill some other incident. So anyways, I think you should explain to your DM that you don't want hack 'n' slash, or that you don't like his way of playing. It shouldn't effect your friendship in my oppinion. And, in my oppinion, good illusions are a good way to got monsters running for their lives. (I should use that on my group:evillaugh)
Bruunwald 02-01-06, 01:28 PM	Well, your point really is your best point, if you take my point. That is, you should go up to your friend the DM and say, "In the interests of preserving our friendship, I think we shouldn't play D&D together anymore. Our interests in the game are just too widely divergent and I am worried it's causing hard feelings and I don't want that." As for hardly anybody roleplaying (versus roll-playing), he's wrong as far I can tell. Everybody I know wants a story. But even if the numbers were on his side, his argument would still be about as valid as saying that because a lot of people jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, you ought to be forced to, as well. It's obvious your friend is a strong personality. That's what it means when people railroad, boss and cowtow people into taking their view or playing their way. That everybody else's game pisses him off as much as you trying to improve his game is just a greater indication that he is wrong in his assessment of what makes a good game (at least in your community), but playing on with him only encourages him and further puts your friendship at risk.
Good Agnostic 02-01-06, 03:24 PM	Perhaps the compromise isn't to be found while he is DM. Perhaps he should just run a mini's game adn you can run an alternating roleplaying session. You play his way, he plays your way, everyone has a chance to have a "good" time and a "better" time. GA
green_yawgmoth 02-01-06, 03:53 PM	Tell him that even if he was right about roll/role-playing (which he isn't), your group wants to ROLEPLAY, and if he doesn't like it, he can DM by himself. If he's not willing to go through with the DM prime directive (make sure everyone has fun), then he's not a very good friend, and a ****-poor DM. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Nialo 02-01-06, 08:30 PM	Talk to him about it. If he doesn't aggree, tell him to either tone it down. Generally it's his job as a DM to wrap the story around the player characters, and put them at the center of things. Regardless of the storyline of the campaign, he does need to cow tow to what the players want. If you guys like roleplay and conversaiton, he should try to add more of that, and tone down his dungeons at the very least, or just fudge your rolls behind the scenes.
Conspiracist 02-01-06, 11:35 PM	Talk about staring down danger! Your friend has already told you up front that he wants munchkins because he is a Killer DM...and you still want to tough it out as a role-player in his campaign. Your call...but if he uses the Killer DM "Wandering Damage System Matrix" from Dragon #96, don't say I didn't warn you. "You rolled a 17? All right, roll your percentage dice. ...A 57? Take 24 point damage--" "What?!" "--and then take 31 more points damage! :evillaugh -- "And you, the archer, what did you roll? ...a 10? Well, your archer just caught a bad case of brain death! :evillaugh :rofl: :dancin: :w00t: " It's bad when a DM feels the need to drive a plotwagon. It's worse when that DM makes it into a war wagon. Personally, I'd quit the game. Playing a game just to defy a DM is a joke for comics about role-players, not something real people should do themselves. It's supposed to be about fun--and a neverending game of one-up-manship isn't really fun...especially to the other players.
High Octane 02-02-06, 01:34 AM	None of us really want to have cookie cutter characters in a cookie cutter setting fighting cookie cutter enemies. The whole situation is a fricken baking sheet about to be put in the oven. Considering very dear friends are at stake here, the oven seems to be getting pretty hot. Metaphor...over...extended! Anyway, you knew what kind of game he ran when you walked in. Its his game, he should run it how he sees fit as long as his players and himself are having fun. However, he has no right to tell you what you HAVE to play. He can limit your options within reason, but you make your character however you like.
CattleProdMan 02-02-06, 12:24 PM	Unfortunately, there lies the problem. The DM is the only one who wants the games to go that way. The rest of them would rather roleplay than rollplay. :(
CattleProdMan 02-18-06, 11:24 AM	Well folks, the minotaur poo has hit the fan. I have been officially banished from our gaming group. Our DM has told me to never call, write, email, or make any contact whatsoever with him. The other players who shared the same feelings as me have backed down solely to remain in the game. And therefore, all of the friends I have brought into the group (which is everyone in the group anyway) will now be playing D&D without me. Frankly I'm a little bit offended due to the fact that I am the one who started the group, started D&D, and am the one who runs the show. The fact of the matter is that I am the one who convinced the players to go with D&D to satisfy our current DM. And now that people are all too afraid to say anything for the sake of their other friends, They will be stuck playing a game they don't want to be involved in. Now this DM is going out of his way to make it even worse for me by spreading slander about me within the group, and is inviting old people he despised just make me mad. I'm stuck here. I lost all of my friends. I understands friends aren't everything, but this great injustice is incredible. I have no idea how the backstabber managed to pull it off.
OmiKapSi 02-18-06, 11:47 AM	Wow, that sounds like a really petty guy. What reason did he give for banning you? I'm assuming that it was something other than 'our play styles don't match'. As for the slander bit, anyone who is remotely aware of the nature of the situation should see past his idiocies, provided you've given an accurate description of what has gone on. And if they're not... well, I prefer to not associate with anyone rather than associate with stupid people. I know that others are less discriminating. At this point, I'd recommend that you either dm a group of your own, or seek out a roleplaying group online. I know tha dming isn't as much fun as playing, and requires a lot more effort to make it work, but it can be made fun with minimal preparation. Alternatively, the nature of online play means that it's very roleplaying intensive, so if you're just looking to play as a player, that could be an option. Just out of curiosity, what sort of slander is this guy coming up with? As far as you've indicated, the worst thing you've done has been stood up to him and insisted on playing a character you created, rather than one he told you to play.
Ogre4Hire 02-18-06, 12:02 PM	My condolences :( Right now, it looks like your best option for getting your friends back would be try starting a new group and DMing yourself. Show them a different gaming experiance. If that DM is half as bad as you're making him out to be, it shouldn't be too long before the group satisfaction level bottoms out. You should really try to get your friends away from this guy before he ruins them to D&D for life.
CattleProdMan 02-18-06, 12:31 PM	Just out of curiosity, what sort of slander is this guy coming up with? As far as you've indicated, the worst thing you've done has been stood up to him and insisted on playing a character you created, rather than one he told you to play. He's been spreading rumors about how I've supposedly ruined friendships and that I'm using all of my other friends. He's stated that I've "done this before" and that I'm abandoning my friends just to get attention. I don't know how to fight that. I've talked to my other friends about it, and they really don't have responses for me. I suppose they're really scared of the consequences of taking action in that situation. Edit: I do have another group to go to, but they only play every other sunday as opposed to every saturday which I set up for this previous group.
Darth_Azalin 02-18-06, 01:05 PM	Now I would have to say that a wizard that just damage dealing.. soon runs out of steam.. That DM of yours has no idea on how to make a powerful wizard/sorceror IMO.. Heres something Lvl 1 Halfling wizard specializing in Abjuration Has a Dex of 12 So AC 12 Then the fun begins.. Mage armor (+4 armor) shield (+4 shield) reduce (+2 size bonus to dex and +1 AC) so just those few things an your AC is 22 now with 18 dex take the dodge feat and some clerical aid (Shield of faith - +2 defelection) and you fight defensively... your AC is 31 Ok so tell me ... how your going to stop that wizard... and it would be easy to fire bows or slings as a halfling as well... or give it a wand of something and let it just keep popping off stuff.. And since your going to be higher than 1st level ... theres a great chance you would get magic items to start (Character wealth) So for this halfling wizard.. I would buy him a +1 sling with flaming.. it would cost 8k in gold but worth it and if your 7th level you easily afford it...
green_yawgmoth 02-18-06, 05:18 PM	Friends who will leave you like that for the sake of a game are not friends. You're better off without them. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Red_Rabbit 02-18-06, 07:24 PM	That was alot of posts I didn't read, but maybe you could all ROUND TABLE so everyone DM's and everyone gets a ton of different game views to help build new DM's and Old DM's Learn new tactics. The Rabbit
Archmage_Vall 02-18-06, 08:27 PM	On the topic of effective-yet-simple things non-boomy mages can do, here's a stunt I pulled as a PC once: Lv 10 Elf Wizard specializing in Transmutation AC 14, pretty much screwed in melee with anything Has a homemade +1 Flaming longbow, and 2 inactive immovable rods tied to his shoes. We get into a fight with things that can't fly or cast long-ranged spells, so I cast Levitate, move up about 200 feet, click on the immovable rods, stand on them, cast True Strike so I can actually hit stuff with my bow, and shoot the baddies with impunity.
Brastan 02-18-06, 10:00 PM	Make sure your friends understand your concerns about this affecting your relationship. Be honest. I've been in almost the exact same situation. A good friend of mine has, over the years, made and run dungeon adventures he calls "The Mouse Trap." This is loosely base on the Cube movies(or something like them). It is a one rail-show, with intentional player killing traps and secret meeting with players for doppelganger status or lack there of. When I participated in the first Mouse Trap I became very upset, and actually almost walked out. Luckily this was not with my regular group so to harm no foul, at the time. The second mouse trap was a disaster and I actually did storm out. By that time I had fully develop my player centric DMing style and to have to participate in such an unnecessary farce was insulting. I flatly refused to participate in the third iteration. I also stated very clearly what my precise objections were situation. I did not ask everyone else walk with me but chose to site this period out. There will be no quick fix or easy answers. Do the other people of you group really believe these rumors, and do they accept the ban? I will assume there was a very heated argument before the "ban." My best advice would be to keep in contact with your friends and indicate that you have chosen sit out this game. Do not be mad or try to force the others to see things your way. In my case I will not play many of the games my Mouse Trap friend runs. I will however sit in on the games and help with RAW rules arbitration. You could ask to do the same. I guess the best thing would be not make your friendship contingent your playing in game. I would like to help more but on the net we are not but pixilated avatars. When it comes right down to it you have to make your own choices. If you are extremely concerned I would recommend seeing a licensed consular of some sort. Trust me it can help.
Hasmead_Guy 02-18-06, 10:22 PM	Make sure your friends understand your concerns about this affecting your relationship. Be honest. Yes. Stay in touch, and make it clear that the beef is between you and the DM, and therefore shouldn't sour the friendship you already have. This is nothing you wanted, and it's only a difference of opinion. Continue to kick back with them, but make it non-D&D related. I wouldn't bring up the D&D incident too much unless they do. What would concern me is how the other guy is making **** up. If this guy doesn't let up, and keeps talking against you, you might wanna confront him and ask him what his problem is. But you be the arbiter of that last one.
Watchdog_of_Hades 02-18-06, 10:55 PM	First, I already hate your DM. Second, I feel sympathy. Third, I have 3 pieces of advice. I think you should see if you can start another group. Get a message on the school announcements if you can and if you go to school. Check with anyone you talk to if they have an interest in D&D. I've found that even just 3 people works pretty well, as in 2 PC's. Also, since you enjoy roleplaying, check out Krede's Pond (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574719) in the Monsters forum. Nobody would mind if another entity appeared in a puff or smoke or something for some reason (or no reason). In fact, I think they'd be glad. No dice, no real rules beyond "nothing utterly ridiculous," just roleplaying. It's really, really fun. Try it. Maybe you should point out to the rest of the players that if they all quit the group, the offensive DM couldn't do anything to hurt them. And I agree with Yawgmoth. If he makes you a total outcast for not being a mental clone of him, he's not a friend. Postscript: Try sneakily asking different people in the group occasionally if they're doing anything Saturday. If they are, the group's probably dissolved because the DM ruled with an iron fist. Try starting it up again. Without the former DM. Post-postscript: I'm only half joking about my last two suggestions. Actually, more like a third. Or a quarter. Actually, I'm not joking at all. Post-post-postscript: Just in case you've forgotten, check out Krede's Pond (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574719).
The Grig Fiddler 02-19-06, 03:04 AM	:censored: Just my :twocents:
DanjaNinja 02-19-06, 03:43 AM	Wow. :mymy: Your former DM is a royal jackass. A total failure. Not as a Dungeon Master, but as a person. That is seriously ****ed up. This guy has cut off communication with you? Good. He sounds like a right manipulative bastard, and you're better off not getting anywhere near him. I would say, collect all your friends and start a new group. And don't let this ****-tard get anywhere near it or you.
CattleProdMan 02-21-06, 01:34 PM	Try sneakily asking different people in the group occasionally if they're doing anything Saturday. If they are, the group's probably dissolved because the DM ruled with an iron fist. Try starting it up again. Without the former DM. I tried talking with the other people to see if they wanted to play a game with me running instead. They have told me that they don't appreciate his way of handling this particular situation, and yet they are still sticking with him. I believe they are lying to me. Also, I have been totally cut off from communicating with this DM. He still continues to talk about me and is still going out of his way to make things worse for me.
Treebore 02-21-06, 05:50 PM	Dude, they are all lying to you. They all support the ban. You are the outcast. Ever watch Survivor? You were voted out. Move on. If they didn't support the ban they would have walked too. Since they stayed they voted with the DM. Otherwise, why would they stay? So they are lying to you because they are so weak inside they don't have the strength to be honest with you. Move on. Realize they don't know what honesty and loyalty is, and move on. Have you caught the "move on" part? Yeah, it hurts, but would you rather hang out with people who are so dishonest and unloyal?
Judging Eagle 02-21-06, 06:32 PM	Really... you shuold have stuck it out. Played your illusionist or illusion spec'ed wizard (I'm not a big fan of dropping a whole school of magic, necromancy if you really have to, and it's one of my favorite too), or an illusionist-spec'ed sorcerer. Asked for a 'true' spell point system (ie, spell pts are based on spell pts availible to your class per level, not the lame one on www.d20srd.com where wiz/cleric/druid get the same spell pts and sorcerers get a gimped amount). Play an illusionist sorcerer (get all of the Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spells and just use them to blast if you need to and w/ your spell pts you'd be able to keep casting whatever you want). Keep role-playing as much as you want and can. Imprison enemies, mind control them and talk to them, maybe become a mindbender, get a chort via leadership. All are in-game ways to create NPCs who -must- or will talk to you. And make the cohort a high cha character like a warlock or bard or marshall (or, a marshall 2/ bard 1/warlock rest; for better spell resistance penetration and saves; better chances to hit and then warlock with eldritch spear (if you fight at range a lot) for long range blasty while you lay down shadow evard's tentacles while your shadow conjured Vrocks are teleport-dropping 300 lb boulders onto enemies. Just some ideas. As for the group your in now... Invite the other players as well as other people you know to a session on a friday night, satuday, or sunday (my current group meets sunday's from noon till 5 or 6). Host a balanced type session, some interaction, some combat and always poll the players for what they liked or didn't. That's really the key thing. Poll your players, ask what they like, what they don't like and what they'd like to see. They might not tell you the truth, but eventually they will give you hints and even if they don't they know that you want to help. You're prolly just better off DMing.
CattleProdMan 02-21-06, 11:44 PM	I tried sticking it out. I didn't mind being underpowered. I just got kicked out is all. And my friends seem to be lying to me. They say they would rather hang out with me than him, and yet they are STILL hanging out with him. They're lying to me. I got that much so far. So I'm kind of stuck. There aren't many people who play these games in this area other than RPGA. I try my hardest to avoid those folks too. It's just not my style. I don't fit in. The thing that makes this so tough is that I brought all the friends into this group myself, and all my friends are being taken away by an individual I brought in myself.
DanjaNinja 02-22-06, 02:05 AM	I don't really know your situation, but it seems to me that if these people are willing to ditch you over a D&D game, then it's probably best to find less petty friends. It's tough to get kicked out on the curb like that. I don't recommend being vidictive--it's only going to create hostility and burn bridges. Maybe in time they'll realize how ****** they're being. Don't count on it, though--I've already said it, but I'll say it again; find less petty friends.