Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnny_Angel 10-03-06, 07:03 PM	I am working on creating my own game world for a future campaign, and I had a few ideas which differ from the normal rules, so I wanted to get a few opinions to see how they would go over before actually implementing them. This might fit better in the homebrew thread, but some of my ideas are in their early stages, and I don't actually have them worked out yet, so I thought it might fit better here until I have it more detailed. movement I was considering going back to D&D's roots (tabletop gaming) and eliminating the whole 5' square idea. Instead there would be no squares, and you would be able to move in any direction as long as you're able to move the distance. How would I do this? Well, it says in the rules that each 5' square is equal to a 1 inch X 1 inch square -which is supported by the fact that the squares on maps and tiles are that size. Basically, I'd have a standard measuring ruler for players to use to figure out how far they could move. The main problems I see for this idea is that it could possibly slow down gameplay. magical healing I don't consider myself a harsh DM, but I've always found the idea that someone could constantly be resurected to be a little bit too much. I want PCs to be more afraid of dying. I have considered simply getting rid of Resurection spells, but I felt that would be too harsh of a change because it would make Clerics a lot less powerful. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I could do this? In the world I'm creating, magic is going to be more of a rare occurance. It's not that there won't be magic, there will be magic, but high-level magic users will be few and far between, so spells like resurection won't be very common. skill points I've never been fond of the idea of cross-class skills, but I do understand why the system is there; however, I am doing a few changes. The amount of ranks you can have in a skill is the same regardless of whether it is a class or cross-class skill, but cross-class skills still cost 2 points for every 1 rank. common sense I realize that what's balanced for a game, and what's realistic doesn't always go hand-in-hand, but there are a few threads I've seen on the boards that have lead me to create a few rulings that are more realistic. I know it's supposed to be a game (and a fantasy game at that,) but I've always felt that a fantasy world that is based on realism is easier to immerse yourself in and imagine yourself actually being there. This would cover such things as casting the spell lightning bolt while underwater - you're going to be taking a big risk if you do something like this. It would also cover often debated topics such as Improved Evasion. Most of the time I don't have a problem with Improved Evasion, but there are some rare circumstances in which -even though the rules allow it- there is no possible way you're getting out of the way. In some cases I figure that the PCs are heroic characters, so I just assume they perfom some sort of unbelievable dodge such as running up the wall or some other crazy feat of heroics, but, as said, there are some cases in which it's just too totally unbelievable. An example would be if your character is securely bound to a wall and a great wyrm dragon breath weapons you from point blank range...you're not getting out of the way, sorry. Gods When it comes to the Gods, I have two ideas, and I'm not sure which way I want to go yet. Idea 1: Make Them Stronger I'm not sure if I want to use the D&D gods or not, but I'm heavily considering making my own gods. If I do end up using the D&D pantheon, I'm definately giving them more class levels. I do realize that 40 levels (what most of them have) and Divine Abilities make them very powerful already, but I want to put them into a whole new power category. They'll be worshipped for a reason, and it would be basically impossible for anyone to ever challenge them unless you found some sort of secret weapon to counter their powers. Another reason for this is that I'd like to make demons and things of that nature more powerful, so -to keep them from being able to challenge the gods- I feel as though I should bump up the powers of the gods. Idea 2: Make Them Weaker I suppose weaker isn't exactly a good word. Mainly, if I go with this idea, I am also going with the idea that many gods live on the material plane along with mortals, and some of the gods may turn out to be nothing more than powerful monsters or demons. In this case, the religion of the world would be somewhat primitive in that people would be more fearful of a God's power due to the fact that the gods are real and tangible. In this respect, I suppose my world would be more similar to the world of Conan The Barbarian in that the gods were a very real aspect of the world. Elves I'm very heavily considering making Elves evil in this world. They would have a very Nazi-like attitude toward the other races; they'd feel that they were a superior race and should be treated as such. I have actually thought this idea out pretty far. Their culture would be a mix between ancient Egypt and Nazi-Germany, but they'd also live in a cold region of my world, so they'd have a lot of things like war-sleds and snow related war vehicles. They'd be very religious as well. If I go with this idea, there will also be no race of Drow. There will be Drow, but they will be created in a different way. Drow would be the result of a cleric of this race of elves going through a ritual inside of a labrynth like pyramid. If their god is pleased, he turns them into Drow to "better serve his cause." If he feels they are not worth, they get turned into Driders or possibly some other monster. If I go with "Idea 2" of the God variant, I was also considering saying that their leader/king was a demi-god, and that he was the son or whatever of the actual god that they worship. In this case, I was going to make Orcs good, and have a different take on Tolkien's idea that Orcs were made from Elves. If I go with this idea, the God of the orcs was once a powerful Elf who had compassion for the slaves of the elves and tried to free them. As punishment, he was horribly tortured and disfigured; as such, all elves from his bloodline became disfigured (turned into Orcs) as he was. There will be good elves though, but the high elves (usual PHB elves) will be evil; I'm considering making either Wood Elves or Wild Elves the normal PC Elf Race. Also, Orcs will not have the trait of light sensitivity.
VrecknidjX 10-03-06, 10:13 PM	A friend of mine uses this rule: once a class skill, always a class skill. It makes multiclassing a lot more interesting. His basic point is that you could usually hand out skill points like candy, and since there are caps already in place, it's not going to make the characters uber, godslaying maniacs. So, just give 'em more points and don't worry about it. He was thinking of getting rid of cross class skills altogether. The movement stuff will probably work just fine. You'll want circular templates for spells and stuff though. And, determining whether someone is within a radius of an effect will be a little more difficult, since figures get bumped and stuff. Dave Dave
Johnny_Angel 10-04-06, 12:35 AM	Thanks for the feedback. I know that figures do get bumped, and things like that are really the only thing that are keeping me from embracing that idea fully. I just don't like the whole "well, if I move this many diagonal, this many whatever, it actually equals this many" idea. I understand why it is set up that way, but it just seems like there should be an easier way. I tried using hexagonal maps, but most D&D figures don't fit onto them right and you end up with half-spaces and things like that.
IceFractal 10-04-06, 05:03 AM	With your second idea, do you mean no magical healing at all, or just no Raise Dead/Ressurection type spells? If it's the latter, I don't think you have to worry about any effect on Clerics - they can still heal, buff, and tank, and Ressurection is a pretty rare event anyway, unless the game is very deadly. The only thing to watch out for is high-level creatures with instant death attacks (Bodaks, for instance) - those probably shouldn't be used. With the movement change, it could work, but it may cause some arguments as to whether figures are in melee range/inside a spell/etc. And be sure to use a standard scale for figures - some I've seen have weapons sticking way out to the sides - that'd be free reach! :P I think the mortal gods idea has a lot of potential, interesting way to actually use all those gods from D&DG without pantheon overload. The evil Elves sound like fun too. I've been working on a setting with some very alternate Elves (more like the ones from Discworld), where their attitude is altered by the season in the Seelie Court - beneficient and joyful in Summer, but downright viscious and sadistic in Winter. Since the Seelie court is on a different plane, with flowing time, it's a bit unpredictable which phase they're in.
CharlieRock 10-04-06, 07:49 AM	movement I was considering going back to D&D's roots (tabletop gaming) and eliminating the whole 5' square idea. Instead there would be no squares, and you would be able to move in any direction as long as you're able to move the distance. How would I do this? Well, it says in the rules that each 5' square is equal to a 1 inch X 1 inch square -which is supported by the fact that the squares on maps and tiles are that size. Basically, I'd have a standard measuring ruler for players to use to figure out how far they could move. The main problems I see for this idea is that it could possibly slow down gameplay.- I used an old shoestring once with tick-marks every inch. That way I could wrap it along obstacles if necessary (or didn't whap someone in their lead head with the opposite end of a hard ruler.) It was also a good line of sight indicator, if it passed over an obstacle that would block sight, you can't see past it.
metalmorphosis 10-04-06, 10:16 AM	I used an old shoestring once with tick-marks every inch. That way I could wrap it along obstacles if necessary (or didn't whap someone in their lead head with the opposite end of a hard ruler.) It was also a good line of sight indicator, if it passed over an obstacle that would block sight, you can't see past it. We've been looking at different ways of movement in battle also. Mechwarrior type gameplay has always made more sense to me. Use a tape to measure movement from the center dot, range from center dot, AoE, line of sight, etc... It just makes sense. I know the 5' square was done to simplify things, but it does cause some unrealistic circumstances. Gods When it comes to the Gods, I have two ideas, and I'm not sure which way I want to go yet. Real world mythology is always a good place to start... Go through Norse, Roman, Greek, Babylonian, Egyptian, Native American, Hindu, etc... There are gods covering every aspect of life. A simple Google search can get you all you ever wanted to know. Once you get your pantheon set up, you can start assigning appropriate domains and such... It's really not difficult at all. Elves I'm very heavily considering making Elves evil in this world. They would have a very Nazi-like attitude toward the other races; they'd feel that they were a superior race and should be treated as such. Nothing wrong with that. Again.. a bit of study in mythology and folklore can provide more information for a campaign setting than all the D&D source books out there. Hell... where do you think they got their ideas from? Here's a good online starting point. (http://www.pantheon.org/)
Johnny_Angel 10-07-06, 08:33 PM	Real world mythology is always a good place to start... Go through Norse, Roman, Greek, Babylonian, Egyptian, Native American, Hindu, etc... There are gods covering every aspect of life. A simple Google search can get you all you ever wanted to know. Once you get your pantheon set up, you can start assigning appropriate domains and such... It's really not difficult at all. Here's a good online starting point. (http://www.pantheon.org/) What I meant by not knowing which way to go was whether I wanted to make them stronger or if I wanted to make them weaker. I think I have come up with what I am going to do though. I think I'm going to use both ideas. Many of the gods are going to be a very real and tangible part of the world; they'll live on the material plane. I should point out though that while there are real gods on the material plane, there are going to be some "gods" who are no more than powerful demons or huge monsters (perhaps a primitive culture worships the Tarrasque?) After figuring out which ones are on the material plane, I could say that there are a few more powerful gods which have "ascended" and no longer need a form on the material plane. My idea was that this world would be fairly new...not many epic level NPCs. It wouldn't be a stone age world, but it would be a world which is still somewhat primal in that there aren't many large kingdoms; there are still a lot of unsettle and wild areas of the world.
Johnny_Angel 10-07-06, 08:37 PM	With your second idea, do you mean no magical healing at all, or just no Raise Dead/Ressurection type spells? If it's the latter, I don't think you have to worry about any effect on Clerics - they can still heal, buff, and tank, and Ressurection is a pretty rare event anyway, unless the game is very deadly. The only thing to watch out for is high-level creatures with instant death attacks (Bodaks, for instance) - those probably shouldn't be used. [/sblock] The latter is what I meant. It's not that ressurection would be impossible, but it would be something that would be extremely rare. For someone of a low level to try it would be risky and the results could be undesirable. Clerics could still cast spells, but rezzing somebody would be nearly impossible. Death, when it occurs, would be pretty permanent.
tuffn00gies 10-07-06, 09:39 PM	movement I was considering going back to D&D's roots (tabletop gaming) and eliminating the whole 5' square idea. Instead there would be no squares, and you would be able to move in any direction as long as you're able to move the distance. How would I do this? Well, it says in the rules that each 5' square is equal to a 1 inch X 1 inch square -which is supported by the fact that the squares on maps and tiles are that size. Basically, I'd have a standard measuring ruler for players to use to figure out how far they could move. The main problems I see for this idea is that it could possibly slow down gameplay. I've toyed around with this same idea and for the same reasons. I think the spell templates idea is a good one. I'd say any mini totally covered was hit normally, maybe with a -2 on Reflex saves and any mini partially covered got a +2 bonus on Reflex saves. magical healing I don't consider myself a harsh DM, but I've always found the idea that someone could constantly be resurected to be a little bit too much. I want PCs to be more afraid of dying. I have considered simply getting rid of Resurection spells, but I felt that would be too harsh of a change because it would make Clerics a lot less powerful. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I could do this? In the world I'm creating, magic is going to be more of a rare occurance. It's not that there won't be magic, there will be magic, but high-level magic users will be few and far between, so spells like resurection won't be very common. This is probably the best way of achieving the flavor you're looking for. It works well in Eberron. common sense An example would be if your character is securely bound to a wall and a great wyrm dragon breath weapons you from point blank range...you're not getting out of the way, sorry. I believe it's already a rule that if you're bound you lose your Reflex save. Gods When it comes to the Gods, I have two ideas, and I'm not sure which way I want to go yet. A 3rd option is to make them more distant. You don't need stats for them at all if they're never encountered by the PCs. Even if the characters find their way to the halls of Mt Olympus, that doesn't mean Zeus is going to be there for an encounter. Again, this is pretty much how it's done in Eberron and it seems to work well. Elves I'm very heavily considering making Elves evil in this world. They would have a very Nazi-like attitude toward the other races; they'd feel that they were a superior race and should be treated as such. I have actually thought this idea out pretty far. Their culture would be a mix between ancient Egypt and Nazi-Germany, but they'd also live in a cold region of my world, so they'd have a lot of things like war-sleds and snow related war vehicles. They'd be very religious as well. If I go with this idea, there will also be no race of Drow. There will be Drow, but they will be created in a different way. Drow would be the result of a cleric of this race of elves going through a ritual inside of a labrynth like pyramid. If their god is pleased, he turns them into Drow to "better serve his cause." If he feels they are not worth, they get turned into Driders or possibly some other monster. If I go with "Idea 2" of the God variant, I was also considering saying that their leader/king was a demi-god, and that he was the son or whatever of the actual god that they worship. In this case, I was going to make Orcs good, and have a different take on Tolkien's idea that Orcs were made from Elves. If I go with this idea, the God of the orcs was once a powerful Elf who had compassion for the slaves of the elves and tried to free them. As punishment, he was horribly tortured and disfigured; as such, all elves from his bloodline became disfigured (turned into Orcs) as he was. There will be good elves though, but the high elves (usual PHB elves) will be evil; I'm considering making either Wood Elves or Wild Elves the normal PC Elf Race. Also, Orcs will not have the trait of light sensitivity. This I love! I planned a setting in the early 90's kinda like this, but never got around to running it. I did away with all the races except humans, elves, and half-elves. Dwarves were huge mountain-sized beings known for their wisdom. I made drow good. They were helping the humans throw off the yoke of elven slavery. Hmmm. I wonder if I still have my notes for this...
Johnny_Angel 10-07-06, 09:53 PM	If you have some notes, I'd like to see it to see how some other people did what I'm trying to do. I already have a pretty good idea of how I want the elven empire to fit into the world, but it would still be nice to see how some other people accomplished similar things. I think this thread is starting to become more of a campaign building thread though, so I started a section in the Campaign Builder's Workshop called "Brainstorming for the World of Diberia."
Ateth_Istarlin 10-09-06, 07:42 AM	As far as Resurrection is concerned - How about having some sort of time limit on it? say, the spell will only work if the character died within 2-3 days - after that he/she is forever dead?:evillaugh
MasterBlaster 10-09-06, 08:56 AM	movement I was considering going back to D&D's roots (tabletop gaming) and eliminating the whole 5' square idea. Instead there would be no squares, and you would be able to move in any direction as long as you're able to move the distance. How would I do this? Well, it says in the rules that each 5' square is equal to a 1 inch X 1 inch square -which is supported by the fact that the squares on maps and tiles are that size. Basically, I'd have a standard measuring ruler for players to use to figure out how far they could move. The main problems I see for this idea is that it could possibly slow down gameplay. tape measure. sorted.
Johnny_Angel 10-09-06, 10:58 PM	As far as Resurrection is concerned - How about having some sort of time limit on it? say, the spell will only work if the character died within 2-3 days - after that he/she is forever dead?:evillaugh I thought of that too, and I like that idea, but I'd still like the ability to be resurrected to be something which is rare. What I mean is that I'd like it to be something which only highly powerful beings can do. I suppose I could say that each time you're resurrected that some of your life force is lost; there's a limit on how many times you can be brought back before the connection between your body and soul is totally broken.
Ateth_Istarlin 10-10-06, 07:35 AM	I thought of that too, and I like that idea, but I'd still like the ability to be resurrected to be something which is rare. What I mean is that I'd like it to be something which only highly powerful beings can do. I suppose I could say that each time you're resurrected that some of your life force is lost; there's a limit on how many times you can be brought back before the connection between your body and soul is totally broken. We have always said that you can only be reurrected a number of times equal to your original starting CON. If that seems too high, how about 1/2CON(rounded down)?:)
The_Jester 10-10-06, 10:38 AM	Raise Dead/Ressurection Well, they are easy if you have 5,000/10,000 gp gems to just throw around plus the spellcasting costs. And if you can buy a gem that size in the town (look at the gp limit in the DMG) and there is a cleric able to cast 5th/7th level spells in the city. If there's not any of those things then you can't do it. If that's not limit enough, perphaps add an xp cost, or a DC for the ressurected person to avoid returning as an undead or losing a chunk of his soul.