Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 04-22-07, 05:16 PM	Has a guide to steps that minimize bookkeeping in D&D been done? If so, anyone have a link? If not, shall we turn this thread into a discussion of making such a guide?
DarkNick 04-22-07, 05:43 PM	What kind of book keeping do you mean? The easy way to minimise bookkeeping is simply not to do it.
JulesCARV 04-22-07, 07:23 PM	I mean cutting back on stuff that requires a lot of paperwork. For example, wizards require more bookkeeping than sorcerers, because of their preperation system. Sorcerers require more bookkeeping than psions, because keeping track of spell slots at different levels is more complicated than keeping track of a single number (power points). A Vow of Poverty character has less bookkeeping than a normal character, since they don't keep track of magic items (although one might argue that their roleplaying requirements make them more complicated, not simpler, overall). A barbarian requires less bookkeeping than a fighter, since most of their class features are pre-defined, getting eleven bonus feats. Obviously, bookkeeping can't be abolished entirely, but I was just wondering about the potential for a guide to reducing it.
JulesCARV 04-25-07, 04:06 AM	Using Google, I've so far been unable to locate a hypothetical "guide to low-bookkeeping D&D," so I'm guessing one doesn't exist. On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be much interest in one, so perhaps I'll just drop the idea.
Shadowhowler 04-25-07, 04:16 AM	I like the idea of what you looking for... I just honestly don't really have a worth while clue as to how one would go about it. :confused:
Millennium 04-25-07, 10:16 AM	You're going to have to make some tradeoffs here; there's just no way around that. However, you may want to consider Level-Based Skills (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm#levelBasedSk ills) from Unearthed Arcana. You no longer have to keep track of skill ranks, or even which skills a character knows: all characters have all of their class skills at a level equal to their character level, and no one gets any cross-class skills. Since the class skill list is built into each class, you can eliminate that entire section of the character sheet. The big thing to keep in mind with this variant is that while it makes all characters more versatile, it does cut their raw power, because it effectively subtracts 4 from your maximum skill ranks. This also makes most prestige classes harder to get into, though that might not be a Bad Thing depending on your tastes. I also worry about what something like this would do for the factotum.
SilvercatMoonpaw 04-25-07, 10:34 AM	I know I'm probably going to get shot down for this, but you could try finding another system, one that just has less bookeeping built in. If you don't want that, however, there are things in the SRD and Unearthed Arcana that reduce the amount of numbers one has to minutely keep track of: —Toughness Save variant (some people say this is more complicated than hit points, but I've played in a version of Green Ronin's True20 and it's just less to think about at any given moment) —Level-Based Skills (already mentioned) —Recharge Magic (high-powered, but you could at least start with that; then there are all the variant systems that Wizards has come out with, like Tome of Magic, Incarnum, Tome of Battle) —Legendary Weapons (like Legacy Weapons, but you need to take a prestige class to advance them; I think you could simply institute requirements for weapon advancement and ignore the prestige class part)
RobbyPants 04-25-07, 10:44 AM	The two biggest suggestions I can give are: For casters, use the Spell Compendium. It has spells from over half a dozen other books in it, which cuts down on the number of books you need (probably not quite the type of answer you're looking for). Use some scrap paper for all of the spell preperation (and HP, money, and the like). Because it's a table-top game, D&D will always have a fair amount of bookkeeping. The trick is to come up with a system that is intuitive to you.
CryoSilver 04-25-07, 12:48 PM	Low bookkeeping is a nice dream. One way to do it are to assume that a character has all the non-magical gear he wants. I manage this by assembling "kits" of mundane gear; the player buys the one that suits his tastes and budget and then forgets about it until he needs something, which either is or is not in the kit. Same thing for spells; assemble lists of spells for preparation in advance: a combat list, a dungeon crawl list, etc.
Krusk 04-25-07, 01:09 PM	play classes that require less bookkeeping? instead of wizard play sorcerer instead of warblade, barbarian or fighter instead of duskblade do rogue or bard
Millennium 04-25-07, 01:29 PM	One way to do it are to assume that a character has all the non-magical gear he wants. I manage this by assembling "kits" of mundane gear; the player buys the one that suits his tastes and budget and then forgets about it until he needs something, which either is or is not in the kit. Ooh; I like this. It does require a setting where adventurers are more common -or at least common enough that someone would think to support them with these kits- but that's flavor, and many typical D&D settings do this anyway.
Arrowhen 04-25-07, 01:50 PM	TBecause it's a table-top game, D&D will always have a fair amount of bookkeeping. Eh, D&D might always have a fair amount of bookkeeping, but that's not necessarily true of all table-top games.
Ezell Pike 04-25-07, 04:31 PM	You could award less treasure wich cuts down on the logistics side of things. As has been mentioned in low power circles instead of giving 3 or 4 weak magic items award one powerful item. Eliminate certain types of bonuses and make more easy stack like dodge. I too would like a low-bookkeeping D&D. It gets quite tiresome when you have two hours of RP then another 1-2 hours of encounter and 3-4 hours of logistics and planning by PC's especially when not all of your players is involved in the planing. (or for that matter players that do not enjoy the planning phase)
CryoSilver 04-25-07, 06:37 PM	I say do away with grappling; hardly anyone I game with uses it, and when it is used, it bogs everything down.
UltimateReality 04-25-07, 06:43 PM	We made all casters spontaneous. It helps A LOT. (We're also in the process of doing up "spell cards", little index cards with the full text of the spells we know on them. You only have to make one copy of each spell, and then just mix and match as your spells known change between characters.)
DarkNick 04-25-07, 08:01 PM	I can't say I have noticed Dnd having a high level of book keeping, something like rolemaster can be much more intensive. In some ways I really enjoy the book keeping there is. I like being a wizard -plotting all my spells, working out how many pages I have used, where my stuff is stashed, what color my shoes are etc. If you do all this type of thing in your own time then this does not impact on playing time. I guess good preperation reduces bookkeeping during the game. This is why leveling after a session is good, or working out treasure distribution at the end of the game is convenient. I think bookkepping is fairly inherent in the system. Change the bookkeeping and you change the rules you play by. Streamline one and you probably need to streamline the other. Individual players will probably come up with their own systems that meet their needs. I have one player that uses one piece of paper for the whole campaign..... I personally don't think a guide is needed but It would be interesting to hear what individuals do to speed processes up (and reduce book keeping). There is bookkeeping on an individual player level and bookkeeping as part of the campaign... In my group one player (that tends to divy up the money) always spends a chunk of party money to cover general food and accomodation for the next few weeks/months in town. Saves keeping track of it and players can assume they are fed and watered etc..
Shadowhowler 04-25-07, 10:42 PM	I say do away with grappling; hardly anyone I game with uses it, and when it is used, it bogs everything down. I have heard this said, but I don't get it. The second character I made for 3.5 was somewhat focused on grappling. The players who had been playing 3.5 longer then me (tho I have played D&D longer then them) all said 'Oh, no grappling... it's totaly complicated' but I didn't think so. The game went fine, there where no problems... I dunno why people find grappling so complicated. It made sense to me, and is one of the things I really like about 3.5 over 2nd edd, as they had CRAPPY wrestling rules in the old days.
CryoSilver 04-26-07, 12:29 AM	Just because something is less crappy than the thing that preceded it does not make the less crappy thing good, just less crappy.
johnkretzer 04-26-07, 02:49 AM	Some ways I cut down on book keeping.... 1) I got a pretty good memory so If a spell is on my list I generaly know what it does...though if I don't I usualy list the book and page nimber and look it up before it's my turn in combat. Note: It is very important not to wait till your turn to do this. 2) For thing like spending money and leveling(though it usualy doesn't take me long to do so like 5 min.) I wait till after the session and do it though e-mails to the DM. When I DM I tell my players this is the way I want it done. 3) For spell list preparation I usualy come up with a standard list that I stick to. Though I often have different lists for the situration. For instance I had a druid that had three lists. 1) Was the standard adventuring list. 2) The other was the I am sitting around doing nothing list. 3) The last was I am going into heavy combat list. Sure there was slight variation but it usualy didn't take me that long to swap spells out. Mostly cutting back on bookkeeping is just creating short cuts and being prepared.