Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fabierien 09-06-05, 11:04 AM	Just want to start by saying thanks for taking a moment to help me out. alright in debate with my players on Hp upon leveling. I can find no passages in the PHB or DMG that settle this argument. When you level at the end of a session(that is when I give out xp) do you get all your Hp back plus what you just earned, ie I have 10 total hp, I have 3 left, 3/10, I gain second level roll a 5, does that make me at 8/15, 3/15 or 15/15? Of course this is assuming a Con of 10 or 11 for the simplicity sakes. If you know a page reference that would be awesome, I have one of the worst rules lawyers ever in my game and he will want a page number(and perferably a paragraph number, but I can handle that). Thanks again so much for your help! Fabierien
Saihtam 09-06-05, 11:13 AM	The way we play it you get 8/15, but I can't give you any page/book where you can find official rules about this.
Fabierien 09-06-05, 11:20 AM	cool that is what I was kind of thinking. He is going to pester the ever living hades out of me. I looked in both the DMG and the PHB leveling up sessions and all they say is you get hp, but do not describe which method should be used. Thanks again. Fabierien
Santrilla 09-06-05, 11:25 AM	An interesting question. Sadly, I can't offer you a rules reference, but I have nothing better to do so let's get deep! Hitpoints are an abstract way of describing a character's ability to take a beating. Levelling up is an abstract way of describing a character's gradual development, overall training and path to self-actualisation. It's assumed that every second (or round, if you will) of every day, you 'grow' a little more as a person as you gain experience. Characters don't suddenly glow yellow and make a "ding" noise after a fight, and say "Wow! I suddenly feel more experienced! After killing that ogre, I feel tougher, better at hitting things and better at swimming!" It's a gradual process that is broken up into discrete levels for simplicity's sake; after all, a base attack bonus of +1.56 would be silly. Sorry, went off track. Anyway. Hitpoints represent overall toughness, and having more hitpoints means that you can put up with a lot more punishment. As is said in the PHB at some point, a blow that would finish off a wizard would be a mere scratch to a barbarian. So if a wizard is at 1 out of 4 hp, and he gains a level and rolls 3, that means that over time he's gained the ability to take three points more damage before he falls unconscious. Now, to the main question: do we transfer this to current hitpoints as well as maximum? I'm inclined to say yes. If hitpoints are a fraction or percentage of how damaged you are (ie 'on a scale of 1 to 17, i'm about 4'), then that means having 1 out of 10 hp left is inherently worse than having 1 out of 4 hp left; you're at 10% instead of 25% of your maximum health. I see it as illogical to claim that as you grow tougher, you become effectively MORE damaged. It makes more sense to say that you're now less damaged than you were before, because hits that would normally have felled you now have less effect- and not only that, but you can take more of them before you're on the floor. So. You're a level 1 fighter with Con 10 who has 4 out of 10 hp; you're at 40% health. You level up and roll a 10 on your hit dice (lucky fiend). There are now two options: either you're at 4 out of 20, 20% health; or you're at 14 out of 20, 70% health. I know most players would prefer the second option, and I believe that it's also the more 'realistic' one. Or at least as realistic as you're going to get in a system like this. There is another option, of course. Your current hp could be altered so that it expresses the same percentage against your new max hp as it did for your old max hp. In that example, your new hp would be 8 out of 20, 40% health. However, this option grows complicated when you stop using multiples of 10. :cool:
Fabierien 09-06-05, 11:32 AM	hehe no no my players are wanting full hp upon leveling which is what brought about this debate. See what I was thinking was hp representing you ability to take damage but not a reflection of your current state. hmmm that did not come out so well. For example I just too a giant club to the head from an Ogre, dropped me to 1/10 hp, we kill said ogre and I level. now does getting tougher negate the fact that I just took a giant club to the side of the head or does it reflect that now I know how to roll with the punches a little bit better? Does the wound heal? Fabierien
Puca 09-06-05, 11:49 AM	The rules for healing are pretty clear. Time and rest work. Spells work. Leveling up? Nope, not even alluded to there. The only place I can think of where this could get weird is if a character was stable, but at less than 0 hp, with no healing spells available, and then you awarded xp and when he leveled up he miraculously came out of his coma. But how often will that happen?
Nurgan_the_drunked 09-06-05, 11:50 AM	In that case, you might want to rule that you can't level up while unconscious. I certainly wouldn't rank it as full healing (for you to become perfectly healthy every now and then is silly), but certainly get your hits for level up. The wounds wouldn't "heal" certainly not visibly, but you might "get a bit more resolve" to keep going.
Karalyn the Sellsword 09-06-05, 12:42 PM	It would make more sense if you changed the current HP's to a percentage of the max HP's, and used that percentage as how many HP's you have. So if you had 81 out of 90 HP's then gained 10 HP's on a level up you'd have 90 out of 100 hp. I think most people just have people healed before they level.
anarco_rata 09-06-05, 12:49 PM	theonly rtules acording to that are healing ones. If they don't get magical healing and don't rest, then theyr're not healed, that's all. Raise from 1 to 20 if ya want (wich cant be done) but you wont get up that comma until you get healing. Your max hit point will raise, but the current HP is fixed until healed...or until more damage comes your way ^^