A new method of stat increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

A new method of stat increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eliza_Stormwhisper
03-24-05, 08:50 PM Personally, I don't like raising one ability score every four levels. I made my own system, which allows you to try and increase your stats every level.

When you level, roll a d6. If you rolled your previous level or under, you get to try and increase that many stats. So a 1st-level character leveling to 2nd could only increase 1 stat, and only if s/he rolled a 1. This does mean that once the characters reach 7th level, they are no longer rolling to see if they can increase stats, but how many stats they can increase.

Once you've determined if and how many stats you can try and increase, which ones you can increase are based on your class. I only assign one "key ability" to every class (Str for fighters, Int for mages, Wis for clerics, etc.), although some DMs who use this system assign two or even three. You have to try and increase your key abilities first. After that, it's up to you. I use seven stats (seventh being Com for physical beauty). Com can't be increased by itself, but high charisma gives bonuses to Com, so you can increase Com by increasing your charisma.

The method for trying to increase the stat varies, but I use a d20. If you roll a number equal to or greater than your current stat, it goes up by one point. An exception is tremendous strength in 1 and 2. For that, you simply add 2d10 to your tremendous strength score. You cannot go above racial maximums, however. A gray elf with 19 Int can never have a 20 Int. Humans have no racial maximums. If your key ability is already maximized, you don't try and get to increase it. You actually "waste" your opportunity to increase it, since you're required to try and increase it.

This method seems pretty generous. However, to compensate, stats are losable. When a character is resurrected, they lose 1 Con permanently in my games. This can only be restored through leveling. However, the big system is they can lose stats if they go into negative wounds (I use vitality and wounds instead of straight HP).

If you go into negative wounds, you roll a d6. You have to check that many times to see if your stats go down. To determine which stat you have to check for, roll a d8. If an 8 comes up, you don't have to reroll; it's a freebie. Other than that, the seven stats are in order (1=str, 2=dex, etc.). You then roll a d20. If you roll your ability score or higher, it's safe and doesn't go down. If not, it goes down by 1. A stat can decrease multiple times from going negative. These stats, however, are restorable with a ring of regeneration at a rate of 1 per day.
simen_88
03-25-05, 05:59 AM I'm not quite sure what to think of this. It seems very powerful, especially at lower levels. Theoretically, you'd have no major problems starting a wizard at INT 12. It also seems very complicated. But hey, whatever floats thy boat.
Eliza_Stormwhisper
03-25-05, 11:12 AM I'm not quite sure what to think of this. It seems very powerful, especially at lower levels. Theoretically, you'd have no major problems starting a wizard at INT 12. It also seems very complicated. But hey, whatever floats thy boat.

This system't been playtested and works very well. What it really is is making your ability scores more dynamic, and less fixed. Starting a wizard at INT 12 is always a bad idea, because the higher their intelligence gets, the harder it is to increase.
Kheldren
03-25-05, 11:30 AM It has one huge problem I can see straight off! If you want the game to go Epic or even just high level 3E D&D is very much designed round there not being "racial maximums" for stats - and your method requires them to be set for all races.
This then has a related effect on stat boosting items - permanent ones that is, do you include the inherent bonus when determining the increase chance? If you do anyone who gets a book of +5 Int will wait until theyir int is 18 or 19 (or racial max) before they touch the book.

Oh - I missed your point about humans having no racial maximums. OK you have said that the grey elf max int is 19 - at this point noone wanting to play an int-based caster should ever play a grey elf - humans will get to higher ints eventually. This point is totally broken and I find it very had to believe it got missed in proper playtesting.

Also what is "tremendous strength"? - you mention adding 2d10 to it wihout saying what it is. This makes me think that this is a system designed for 1st or 2nd Ed and you mean percentile strength.

For 1st and 2nd Ed I can understand that this system could work, I can't see it working for 3rd Ed - the game has been totally re-thought in this area.

Final point - bieng a Runequest player of long standing, it can get very frustrating for an unlucky player who never makes their Power gain rolls when they have a 40% chance while their lucky friend makes his 15% ones half the time. This can make a huge difference to character power over time, and 3rd Ed is supposed to be designed to balance the classes. (Note I know someone that lucky at dice without cheating, thankfully I usually can make stat gain rolls - it's inital stats and hit points I can't roll - hooray for point buy.)
Eliza_Stormwhisper
03-25-05, 01:12 PM Kheldren: yes, the system is designed for 1st and 2nd. I can see how it wouldn't work for 3.x edition. Humans are a lot different in 1 and 2; their main advantage being that they can do anything. Other races may have special abilities (such as elves being 90% resistant to sleep and charm-related effects), but they have limits on abilities, class choices, and multiclass combinations. Also, humans are the only race that can dual-class.

As far as ability-augmenting magic items, they work a bit differently in the old editions. A manual of gainful exercise raises your strength by 1 if it's below 18, or adds 50 to your percentile strength, regardless of racial min/max. For example, a Half-elf with max strength (18/50) would be able to get 18/00 with this item. Strength, however, was probably a bad example to use, because you can never have a natural strength of 18/00 or higher. However, if you were a high elf with dexterity 19 and you read the book that increases your Dex by 1 (I forgot the exact title), yes, your dexterity would increase to 20.

As for the non-book items, they work differently. For example, gauntlets of ogre power will grant strength of 18/00 to anyone who wears them, regardless of their actual strength score. You could have Str 3, put them on, and then have 18/00. This also means that a character with an 18/00 strength won't benefit by putting them on. Girdles of giant strength have set strength ratings of 19-24. Gloves of dexterity grant the wearer Dex 18, a headband of intellect grants the wearer Int 18, etc. I believe there's an artifact item that can give you Int 20, as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eliza_Stormwhisper 03-24-05, 08:50 PM	Personally, I don't like raising one ability score every four levels. I made my own system, which allows you to try and increase your stats every level. When you level, roll a d6. If you rolled your previous level or under, you get to try and increase that many stats. So a 1st-level character leveling to 2nd could only increase 1 stat, and only if s/he rolled a 1. This does mean that once the characters reach 7th level, they are no longer rolling to see if they can increase stats, but how many stats they can increase. Once you've determined if and how many stats you can try and increase, which ones you can increase are based on your class. I only assign one "key ability" to every class (Str for fighters, Int for mages, Wis for clerics, etc.), although some DMs who use this system assign two or even three. You have to try and increase your key abilities first. After that, it's up to you. I use seven stats (seventh being Com for physical beauty). Com can't be increased by itself, but high charisma gives bonuses to Com, so you can increase Com by increasing your charisma. The method for trying to increase the stat varies, but I use a d20. If you roll a number equal to or greater than your current stat, it goes up by one point. An exception is tremendous strength in 1 and 2. For that, you simply add 2d10 to your tremendous strength score. You cannot go above racial maximums, however. A gray elf with 19 Int can never have a 20 Int. Humans have no racial maximums. If your key ability is already maximized, you don't try and get to increase it. You actually "waste" your opportunity to increase it, since you're required to try and increase it. This method seems pretty generous. However, to compensate, stats are losable. When a character is resurrected, they lose 1 Con permanently in my games. This can only be restored through leveling. However, the big system is they can lose stats if they go into negative wounds (I use vitality and wounds instead of straight HP). If you go into negative wounds, you roll a d6. You have to check that many times to see if your stats go down. To determine which stat you have to check for, roll a d8. If an 8 comes up, you don't have to reroll; it's a freebie. Other than that, the seven stats are in order (1=str, 2=dex, etc.). You then roll a d20. If you roll your ability score or higher, it's safe and doesn't go down. If not, it goes down by 1. A stat can decrease multiple times from going negative. These stats, however, are restorable with a ring of regeneration at a rate of 1 per day.
simen_88 03-25-05, 05:59 AM	I'm not quite sure what to think of this. It seems very powerful, especially at lower levels. Theoretically, you'd have no major problems starting a wizard at INT 12. It also seems very complicated. But hey, whatever floats thy boat.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 03-25-05, 11:12 AM	I'm not quite sure what to think of this. It seems very powerful, especially at lower levels. Theoretically, you'd have no major problems starting a wizard at INT 12. It also seems very complicated. But hey, whatever floats thy boat. This system't been playtested and works very well. What it really is is making your ability scores more dynamic, and less fixed. Starting a wizard at INT 12 is always a bad idea, because the higher their intelligence gets, the harder it is to increase.
Kheldren 03-25-05, 11:30 AM	It has one huge problem I can see straight off! If you want the game to go Epic or even just high level 3E D&D is very much designed round there not being "racial maximums" for stats - and your method requires them to be set for all races. This then has a related effect on stat boosting items - permanent ones that is, do you include the inherent bonus when determining the increase chance? If you do anyone who gets a book of +5 Int will wait until theyir int is 18 or 19 (or racial max) before they touch the book. Oh - I missed your point about humans having no racial maximums. OK you have said that the grey elf max int is 19 - at this point noone wanting to play an int-based caster should ever play a grey elf - humans will get to higher ints eventually. This point is totally broken and I find it very had to believe it got missed in proper playtesting. Also what is "tremendous strength"? - you mention adding 2d10 to it wihout saying what it is. This makes me think that this is a system designed for 1st or 2nd Ed and you mean percentile strength. For 1st and 2nd Ed I can understand that this system could work, I can't see it working for 3rd Ed - the game has been totally re-thought in this area. Final point - bieng a Runequest player of long standing, it can get very frustrating for an unlucky player who never makes their Power gain rolls when they have a 40% chance while their lucky friend makes his 15% ones half the time. This can make a huge difference to character power over time, and 3rd Ed is supposed to be designed to balance the classes. (Note I know someone that lucky at dice without cheating, thankfully I usually can make stat gain rolls - it's inital stats and hit points I can't roll - hooray for point buy.)
Eliza_Stormwhisper 03-25-05, 01:12 PM	Kheldren: yes, the system is designed for 1st and 2nd. I can see how it wouldn't work for 3.x edition. Humans are a lot different in 1 and 2; their main advantage being that they can do anything. Other races may have special abilities (such as elves being 90% resistant to sleep and charm-related effects), but they have limits on abilities, class choices, and multiclass combinations. Also, humans are the only race that can dual-class. As far as ability-augmenting magic items, they work a bit differently in the old editions. A manual of gainful exercise raises your strength by 1 if it's below 18, or adds 50 to your percentile strength, regardless of racial min/max. For example, a Half-elf with max strength (18/50) would be able to get 18/00 with this item. Strength, however, was probably a bad example to use, because you can never have a natural strength of 18/00 or higher. However, if you were a high elf with dexterity 19 and you read the book that increases your Dex by 1 (I forgot the exact title), yes, your dexterity would increase to 20. As for the non-book items, they work differently. For example, gauntlets of ogre power will grant strength of 18/00 to anyone who wears them, regardless of their actual strength score. You could have Str 3, put them on, and then have 18/00. This also means that a character with an 18/00 strength won't benefit by putting them on. Girdles of giant strength have set strength ratings of 19-24. Gloves of dexterity grant the wearer Dex 18, a headband of intellect grants the wearer Int 18, etc. I believe there's an artifact item that can give you Int 20, as well.