Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aaron3579 01-26-05, 10:29 PM	Those that are unfamiliar with Stephen King's Dark Tower Series need read no further. A related thread got me thinking: Would Roland of Gilead be considered a paladin? He adheres to a strict CoC that requires him to be a champion of good (Wolves of the Calla). He is most definitely a warrior, he is without a doubt, lawful good. He let an innocent boy fall to his death in order to save the world, but was forced to atone, he fights valiantly against demons... Does anyone that is familiar with this character have anything to add to this list of exalted deeds, and does anyone else feel like he qualifies for paladinhood? But then there was his mother, and Tull...
Bryarr 01-26-05, 10:36 PM	I'm gonna say probably not. He strikes me as much too practical for a paladin. He's definately good, but not so much lawful. Did you like the ending? I loved it. Bry
Issmortor 01-26-05, 10:40 PM	ive only read the firts of the Dark Tower series, but i dont necissarily consider him a paladinic(?) being...he is a member of a tribe/cult/group of people who train vigerously(sp?) and then once the boy is strong enough and beats his superior, goes off and does(i think) whatever the 'elders' want him to do, or mabey just whatever things he believes in doing....like i said before i only read the first book, so i dont know what happenes after he has his confrontation with 'the dark man', and that ten year time travel wierd thing happens...but what about that entire town of people he murdered? and he...intercourses(?) with prostitues...wouldnt that kinda screw up lawful good? but idk much about the ways of LG characters in D&D, as well as i dont know much about The Dark Tower, save the first book...so i wouldnt take any of this too strongly to heart ~Iss
aaron3579 01-27-05, 12:49 AM	I'm gonna say probably not. He strikes me as much too practical for a paladin. He's definately good, but not so much lawful. Did you like the ending? I loved it. Bry I'm 1/2 through Wolves right now. Please don't spoil it! ;) As for lawful; that kind of depends on your definition of the term. Lawful can mean that you follow your own code of honor. All that talk of "the face of your father..." Just seems really honor-bound to me. Another thing to consider when determining lawfulness is whether or not the character would keep his word. Roland is definitely a man of his word (well now that I think about it, he did lie to Jake...) But when he makes a promise, it usually means something. Why can't paladins be practical? And why can't prostitution be lawful? That's capitalism at work (look at Nevada). While we may not normally consider prostitution as inherently good, I don't think of the oldest profession as inherently evil. It CAN be evil, but at best, prostitution itself is neutral. I guess when I consider the totality of the circumstances, Roland just sits in my head quite neatly as a paladin, albeit a paladin that needs atonement every now and then. He’s my favorite literary character, bar none, and he’s the only paladin I ever loved.:)
Callista 01-27-05, 03:16 AM	I would say Roland is halfway between LN and LG... There is something very paladinlike about him, though, isn't there? He's too ruthless and practical to really fit the bill of "LG" though. I don't mean the sort of "practical" that means common sense; because every LG ought to have that; but the sort of "practical" that will kill an innocent or at least a creature not completely deserving of death in order to fulfill a greater goal. (I'm not talking about the incident with the boy in the first book here, because Roland had permission for that.) Later on, though, he becomes more and more dedicated to the Tower, and teeters on the brink of letting ruthlessness become one of his tools... Roland is a very dark sort of hero, I think. All in all... Roland is a fascinating character. If you haven't read the series, I recommend it. The ending, however, demands a sequel... just my opinion :)
angryman 01-27-05, 08:50 AM	Roland of Gilead a paladin? No. He's a gunslinger. He also isn't lawful good- he's killed a lot of people (remember the whole TOWN of people he guns down?), many of who, didn't deserve it. I'd put him squarely in lawful neutral territory.
Callista 01-27-05, 10:47 AM	The townful of people in that little flashback thingy? Hmmh. That was more self defense than anything (which is probably, in hindsight, why you're not saying "LE"...). I'd agree on LN though. He's more ready to kill than a LG person should be.
Board_Rider 01-27-05, 11:59 AM	I will agree more with the LN twist. I have always thought that way back in the day.
PhaedrusXY 01-27-05, 12:05 PM	I agree that Roland is LN. He's too driven and willing to do whatever it takes, no matter if it hurts others, to be LG. He is also one of my favorite fictional characters. If the books didn't go into such detail about how his conscious eats at him often, I'd even say he's LE. But as is I'd say he's pretty squarely in the middle of LN.
angryman 01-27-05, 10:15 PM	Also, his great quest is selfish (not in a bad way). He wants to find it, but not for an altruistic reason. So his prime motivation is neutral. He respects the laws and traditions of Mid-World and of the gunslingers, and he is focussed and disciplined, fanatically so sometimes. Oh yeah, and he lets Jake fall...for his quest. So, again, LN.
aaron3579 01-28-05, 02:29 AM	I wish to sincerely thank all of you for your perspectives. Even though I knew this post wouldn't really take off, these few sentiments have given me volumes of ponder-material. Really great stuff, thanks! I guess I can't really make a logical argument in favor of Roland's paladinhood (curse these inadequate writing skills) but I just know somehow that he can be nothing else but a paladin in my eyes. Roland is... distilled determination. **edit** I will, however, beg the question: If gunslingers are not the paladins of Roland's world, who is? ;)
Issmortor 01-28-05, 10:28 AM	.....I will, however, beg the question: If gunslingers are not the paladins of Roland's world, who is? ;) good question, maybe you should look into making a character class for Gunslinger. probly not too good for D&D but maybe the modern d20 or whatever it is (im not very familiar with it) and along the lines of leveling up, he gains that coin spinning charm thing, i know from what was shown in the first book he'd probly need quite a few points Survival for all that desert tracking? edit: or for a more D&D feel maybe Dartslinger? or somthin like that...idk im just brainstorming(somthing im not good at)
spasheridan 01-28-05, 05:03 PM	Paladins are champions of Good and Order. A gunslinger seems to also be a champion for Good and Order. Their founding figiure, Eld, seems to be a mythical knight much like Lancelot or King Arthur. THe one thing missing from the gunslinger / paladin comparison is the divine nature of a paladin. That's a fiarly important part of the paladin myth, the divine crusading knight. Their religion could be viewed as belief in Ka, or destiny. As far as Roland goes, he's the last gunslinger. His world is falling into darkness. There is a force that is destroying his world. His choices are very differant than your typical moral dilema.. with the threat of the world ending hanging over every choice you see things in a unique way.
James Wildspell 01-29-05, 03:36 AM	Roland is a Paladin, and he is LG. But he is also other-driven, and not entirely a creature of free-will. I have not read any of the books (YET) beyond "Wizard and Glass" (And would not appreciate spoilers). But through the the ones that I have read, I can postulate the following, all of which is consistent with an other-directed Paladin: Code of Conduct: check Inherently Good: check Inherently Lawful: check Tolerence of Evil: No, check Tolerence of Chaos: Low, 1/2 check As a DM, I would rule he is close to losing Palainhood, at times. But in this case the DM, Stephen King, represents the DM as well as the "Other" in other-directed. He may have surprises for the character as well as the reader. That will be 2 cp....