Post/Author/DateTime	Post
asdfff 04-25-07, 01:47 AM	I'm about to be a new parent, and I have a few questions for everyone here--both parents and teens alike. Let me first explain where I'm coming from. Basically, I don't know whether to let my kid "get into" dnd. The way *I* got into dnd is by a very obtuse way: star wars ccg -> rpgs -> history of rps -> dnd 0e -> dnd 3e. I don't like saying this here or anywhere, but dnd hasn't been mainstream in a long, long time. The mazes + monsters fiasco was probably the last time dnd made a mark in the public's mind, and even then it was already past its prime. The closest I got to mainstream tabletop was the Heroquest board game, and it was the hottest item in christmas of '91...tv ad barrage, prominent toysrus promotions. Concern 1). If I pass on Heroquest to my kid, it's very "last-gen". It would have been the same if my parents got me Talisman 2e instead of Heroquest. Concern 2). D&D is miles away from mainstream. It would have been the same if, in the mid-90s, at the nadirs of RPGs, my parents got me into Battletech. HUGE product line, on the verge of death, sold to a niche market. Frankly I'm glad they bought me + siblings a nintendo instead. The amount of experience shared in the social meme pool was much larger. Concern 3). However, D&D IS the standard by which all sword+sorcery fantasy is compared. Only a few fantasy properties are exempt from this--LOTR, Discworld, other greatest greats. So, fellow parents, would you get your kid into D&D in this day and age? Into an intellectual property that requires no small $ and lots of mental energy (not to mention time and actual effort)? And, fellow gamers here (--who are in your teens--), how much do you think you've benefitted by being into D&D? Would you rather have been "into" other things like something simpler, or video gaming, or Pokemon or Yugioh?
Adamaro23 04-25-07, 02:01 AM	I am 17, and have been played Poke'mon, Yu-gi-oh, Star wars card game, then into Magic the Gathering, and now D&D. I've been playing D&D for 3 years now, and have made more friends playing D&D than any other game. The way i see it is: 1 play a video game......no social interaction, unless Xbox live, or online rpg, but still the social interaction is'nt that great. 2 playing some card game...... will really help him/her find friends their age. 3 playing D&D.......lots of social interaction, plus will give the kid something in common with you. Because of this I am able to fit in with almost any group, despite age. But keep in mind there always will be older gamers, the thing is do you want your child that close to 16-48+ year olds? All in all, D&D would probably be fine, at an older age...maybe around ten. It also really depends on the town you're in/ the kind of people in your town.
allenchan 04-25-07, 02:03 AM	I smell a t thats been rolling.
Critalondel 04-25-07, 02:04 AM	Why not let your "kid" grow up into their own person, and decide for themselves what legal, healthy, hobbies they want to pursue?
JulesCARV 04-25-07, 02:04 AM	I'm not a parent and don't forsee becoming one (I don't forsee not becoming one and am not dedicated to being "child free" -- just no specific plans right now), but personally, I don't think I'd really encourage them to do get into D&D or other RPGs, but if they did get into it independently of me, I wouldn't discourage them either.
daggeroflath 04-25-07, 02:10 AM	I'm about to be a new parent, Seriously, doesn't that give you ten years or so to think this one over? I started young and I still only started roleplaying when I was 9. but dnd hasn't been mainstream in a long, long time. It never has been... so what? My parents read tolkien to me while I was growing up, this was way before the movies brought it into the public eye. I loved it. Concern 1). If I pass on Heroquest to my kid, it's very "last-gen". It would have been the same if my parents got me Talisman 2e instead of Heroquest. I used to play monopoly with my grandfather. There's certainly no regrets on my part about that. Concern 2). The amount of experience shared in the social meme pool was much larger. Seriously, if you use words like meme pool commonly, I think your child is likely to be a bit outside of the ordinary. (In a good gifted kind of way, but still) So, fellow parents, would you get your kid into D&D in this day and age? Uhhh... I don't do the whole procreative thing, so I can't really advise you. However, as I understand it, children rarely end up going where you expect them to. You could introduce them to D&D and they might think it's boring, or they might love it. And, fellow gamers here (--who are in your teens--), how much do you think you've benefitted by being into D&D? I started when I was 9... it's hard to divorce D&D from who I am, making it very difficult to make that assessment. Would you rather have been "into" other things like something simpler, or video gaming, or Pokemon or Yugioh? Well, Yugioh would have required me to have been born half a generation or so later. And I'm "into" a lot more than D&D. My hobbies include, "Drawing, computer/console gaming, writing, mountain-climbing, tunnel-crawling, urban reclamation exploration, film-making, society for creative anachronism, music, science, philosophy, mathematics, linguistics, reading and roleplaying (D&D, White wolf, gurps, CoC, Cyberpunk, and yeah, just about every game ever)." Trekkies are the only people who can devote the entirety of their life to a single hobby (Kidding :P), people have 24 hours in their day and lots of mental energy which can let you do an awful lot of things. Yeah I play roleplaying games a lot, but there's plenty of time for other things. Oh, incidentally, I'm looking at switching my university degree at the end of the semester from Art to Law. Still considering whether to go through with it or not, however playing roleplaying games and noticing my ability to remember obscure rules and notice combinations that could occur between two unrelated rules is what has me considering a career in law. So I suppose if I go ahead with that, D&D will have had a huge effect on my life.
daggeroflath 04-25-07, 02:13 AM	I smell a t thats been rolling. Well obviously, but that doesn't stop it being an interesting topic.
asdfff 04-25-07, 02:15 AM	Adamaro23: Thanks for your input. That thing about being with older gamers is a very good catch I didn't immediately think of. I'll also have to evaluate xbox live vs. video gaming together IRL. Critalondel: Very idealistic, but today is extremely different from 15 years ago, and children need vigilance, even if peripheral and unseen. I'd like to mold my kid just a lil. I'm definitely buying him legos and transformers that no one has heard of--because I definitely don't approve of "beign into" transformers, or any other marketing ploy they can't even bother to mask over. Maybe I'll get him one of the dinosaur transformers, no one's seen them in animated form for years. JulesCARV: Thanks for the quick insight. If you come back to this thread I've love to know why you won't actively encourage dnd/rpgs. EDIT: daggeroflath: you seem very artistically inclined, and/or free-spirited. I'm not sure...law will fit your internal, mental lifestyle. How old are you now? Ie, what year did you get into D&D? Although to be honest it sounds like you've been around artish, gamer-ish people more often than most kids.
Squirrelloid 04-25-07, 02:17 AM	I'm entering my late 20s, but don't have kids yet. I started playing and DMing D+D when I was 12. 2nd edition was a few years old at the time. It was an excellent experience for me. If/when I have kids, I doubt I will just hand them my vast library of books (most of the central 1st edition manuals, a good collection of 2nd material, and a large collection of 3e and 3.5 material). Rather, I think I'd prefer to play it with them. Besides, by the time I have kids (and they're old enough to play) we'll be into 4th edition at least, and maybe 5th. The fact of the matter is that roleplaying games are a great social experience. It encourages kids to hang out with their friends *and* engage in an intellectual activity. It keeps them telling stories long after most children have stopped, and telling stories is an important activity. I still play on a regular basis as an adult. And it doesn't have to be D+D or just D+D. I have variously been interested in oWoD (Vampire and Mage), Rifts, Champions, Marvel Super Heroes, etc.... There are a number of new games out from independent publishers that are doing amazing new things in the genre (hopefully a_psh will post - he knows a lot more than I do about those). I'm still looking for a copy of Paranoia - a true RPG classic. All RPGs fulfill the same social purpose. D+D is not going to die. There are a few million players right now, there will be a 4th edition at some point (even if they won't talk about it), and a 5th edition at some point after that. And there will always be RPGs of one form or another. Its not about social memes (though D+D has plenty of classics - who hasn't heard the Dead Alewives sketch?), its about storytelling. You're worrying for all the wrong reasons.
Critalondel 04-25-07, 02:18 AM	It just seems to me that being paranoid about your child's future hobbies at this stage of "about to become a parent" is a little silly. Why not be more worried about having a healthy child, raising them to tell the truth and treat other people respectfully, encouraging them to do hard in school and make something of themselves, making sure they grow up knowing their family loves them, etc, etc -- instead of agonizing over whether or not their hobbies are "mainstream" enough? Seriously, man. You've got bigger stuff to worry about right now. You're going to be raising a child, not rolling up a new PC. Worry about making them a good person, not a popular one.
Ariath Ska'Vhor 04-25-07, 02:23 AM	When and if I ever have kids (I'd like to someday) I'm going to teach them D&D. If newer versions come out I may try and get into those, but if not or I'm not interested I shall teach them the ways of 3.5, as is my way...
asdfff 04-25-07, 02:29 AM	Squirrelloid + Critalondel: I know I'm just being silly, but parents are just like that...you'll know if you're the oldest kid, or if your friends just had their 1st kids. I remember the old jokes "rolling up new PC", having a kid just to have someone new to play RPGs with, CCGs as flash cards...and they're all funny, hopefully-true, and hopefully-never-true all at the same time. Critalondel: Don't worry, I'm already thinking about all that other stuff. Think of my question on the wotc board as my...extracurricular worrying in my free time. Ariath Ska'Vhor: This may be heretic to mention so soon after the Dragon/Dungeon cancellation, but one of my more interesting wishes is to for 4th edition to be online, partially minis based, with central wotc databases storing characters, monsters, and adventures so I can get my D&D on in the comfort of my home (where I'll be needed), and perhaps peek in on his role-playing *if* he actually gets into it. It's also probably safer than having him hang around game stores, spending my moneys and hooking up with the weirder gamers.
daggeroflath 04-25-07, 02:52 AM	Daggeroflath: you seem very artistically inclined, and/or free-spirited. I'm not sure...law will fit your internal, mental lifestyle. How old are you now? Ie, what year did you get into D&D? Although to be honest it sounds like you've been around artish, gamer-ish people more often than most kids. I'm 23 and if my calculations/memory are correct I started playing D&D late '92 or early '93. I convinced my parents to get me the red boxed set of original D&D for either my birthday or christmas present. Ran it for my family for a while, then met some people at school that gamed as well and finally a friend of my brother introduced me to the group that I play with now. ...sorry, my sister's partner and children just arrived. (Ironic given the topic, huh?) so I've got to go and be all hospitable and host like. I'll finish this later.
Pie 04-25-07, 02:58 AM	Why not let your "kid" grow up into their own person, and decide for themselves what legal, healthy, hobbies they want to pursue? I could not have said it better myself. You are speaking as though you are going to "force" DnD on you child [or not, depending on what a clearly biast forum postees end up telling you]. As a parent you never EVER make your child do anything when it comes to pasttimes and hobbies [legal and healthy as Crit states], let them decide. I have to say I am very very thankful that my parents have given myself and my siblings pretty much free reign of our own lives. So long as we stick within the confines of the law, do our work, do reasonably well and live happy lives then they are ok with whatever we do. Who knows, what if your child grows up being incredibly athletic and sporty and turns away from acedemic pursuits? Or if they are grounded in the realm of logic and reality and have no interest in epic fantasy tales? Never force such things on your child. Thats the beliefs of a soon to be 19 year old at least :)
Singer_of_the_Song 04-25-07, 03:12 AM	All I have to say: MANDATORY DAILY PHB READING MISSED = BEATINGS APLENTY
DrWorm 04-25-07, 03:15 AM	Squirrelloid + Critalondel: I know I'm just being silly, but parents are just like that...you'll know if you're the oldest kid, or if your friends just had their 1st kids. I remember the old jokes "rolling up new PC", having a kid just to have someone new to play RPGs with, CCGs as flash cards...and they're all funny, hopefully-true, and hopefully-never-true all at the same time. Critalondel: Don't worry, I'm already thinking about all that other stuff. Think of my question on the wotc board as my...extracurricular worrying in my free time. Ariath Ska'Vhor: This may be heretic to mention so soon after the Dragon/Dungeon cancellation, but one of my more interesting wishes is to for 4th edition to be online, partially minis based, with central wotc databases storing characters, monsters, and adventures so I can get my D&D on in the comfort of my home (where I'll be needed), and perhaps peek in on his role-playing *if* he actually gets into it. It's also probably safer than having him hang around game stores, spending my moneys and hooking up with the weirder gamers. My 2 cents: I am 33 and a parent of 2 boys. My oldest, at the moment, is 12. Let me just say that there are a lot more steps to be worried about between now and ten years from now than social stigma from hobbies. Once that kid is born all this sillyness will slip away and you will be more worried aobut him/her fallin down the stairs or eating poo than anything like that. Let me give you one huge piece of advice right now: STOP PLANNING! Trust me things will change so much on a weeksly and monthly bassis that all your plans and worries now will be long forgotten in 6 month. Take things one day at a time and you will have more fun with your new child. That being said I never "encouraged" my son to do anything I do. Ages ago (like 5-6 years) he got in to Pokemon cards. At the time I was not gaming (long hiatus from my teens) or in to ccg's but I started playing Pokemon so I could share it with him. Shortly after that my old gaming group started to get back together, and I started to get in to MT:G. My son took his time but eventually choose to drop Pokemon for Magic. He then started to get in to Computer and Console based RPGs with his friends. Now he sees me game, and has expressed interest. He and I have run through some solo stuff and he likes it pretty well. I think he likes doing stuff with me and my friends more than the game at theis point. My point is that all of this has been an organic process. I never said "hey you should try this" he just saw me enjoying it and wanted to give it a try. If he chooses to pursue it, fine. At the moment he is more in to WoW (which i strictly monitor) and Magic: the Gathering. He is a social kid, and if he is in a "less popular" social group it is one he choose for himself becuase of the comfort level, not becuase of his hobbies.
Clearly_Toughpick 04-25-07, 06:54 AM	My first kid is on the way (due 28 June, sex unknown). And I'm looking forward to round about 28 June 2017 when I'd like to play D&D with said kid. I won't force it on them, but if they like it, I see it as a great way of getting them to work their imagination, hone their intelligence, and make firm friendships. I think it's good for young minds and don't really care about any perceived social stigma. Heck, doesn't everyone have some kind of weird pastime. :blink:
Dog_As_A_Devil_Deified 04-25-07, 06:59 AM	I'm not a parent and don't forsee becoming one (I don't forsee not becoming one and am not dedicated to being "child free" -- just no specific plans right now), but personally, I don't think I'd really encourage them to do get into D&D or other RPGs, but if they did get into it independently of me, I wouldn't discourage them either. That's where I am too, though I certainly understand the OPs concerns. When I met my wife and first built up the courage to tell her I played D&D, from the look on her face you'd have thought I said, "I'm a convicted sex offender." Not that she seriously considered stopping our relationship, but you could tell she saw it as a *negative* in the grand scheme of who I am as a person. It's not that D&D isn't "mainstream;" many things (stamp collecting, jai alai, playing bridge, competing in triathlons) are not "mainstream." The problem is that it's viewed as downright strange, and (by some) a personality defect. I like to think that children are less subject to the stigma that is sometimes associated with the game, since their peers are less likely to recall or know of the social bias against it, but you never know. Once a kid's peers learn of the stigma, that information will spread through the peer group pretty fast. It doesn't take that much social damage from peers to give certain children emotional and other problems. Certainly, if God came to me and said, "I can either make your child very good at baseball or D&D," I'd choose baseball for him (or her), even though I myself hate baseball.
Kamin_Majere 04-25-07, 07:30 AM	My daughter will be born in just about 4 months... and i fully expect her to be born a level 5 commaner instead of the typical level 1 baby.;) As far as making her play D&D, i'll not force it on her but if shes intrested i'll show her how. I mean if i can show her how to calculate THAC0 with a ranger using a Long sword at its initiative; or how to figure out what stacks with what when 5 or 6 diffrent effects are going on at the same time. I very much doubt most grade school math and problem solving questions will challenge her. Ultimately its her choice, D&D is one of those hobbies that some people love and alot of people dont. Me and my wife both play weekly and if through that my daughter wants to learn then great. And if she never shows a lick of intrest in the game thats great to.
Toran_A_Sunder 04-25-07, 07:33 AM	asdfff, I hope I can offer some insight into this. I am (hopefully) not so far off from where you are right now. I can't wait for the day when I become a parent. I got into D&D when I was 10. My eldest sister got me into it. And I have every intention of doing the same thing with my kids. (If any of what I say in this post has already been said...well...maybe it will reinforce the good ideas :D) A: If you get your child, at any age, into D&D (or RPGs period) you will have a common ground. You will have something you can do together as a family, and in this day and age of split families and video games and more time spent in front of the TV during dinner than at the dinner table, every minute of quality time you can spend with your child should be sought after with righteous fervor, and guarded more jealously than a dragon and his gold. B: Besides the aforementioned familial benefits, getting your child into D&D will also help him/her develop a lot of skills that are lackig in todays youth (mainly because of the aforementioned video games and TV). You will be helping your child flex his imagi-muscle, as I call it, which is always good. You will help your child in becoming a problem solver as he tries to work his way through your various puzzles and encounters. Your child will be encouraged to read, which not enough kids do nowadays. And you will be fostering diversity and tolerance. If your kid plays these games that have for its entire history been labeled a "geeky" game, he will be less prone to bullying or picking on those kinds of kids in school. Having said all that (and B probably could have been broken down into smaller paragraphs), why would you not want to encourage your child to play D&D? It is a great game, and your whole family will benefit from it if you make it a family activity. You should be proud to play D&D, and you should jump at the chance to enjoy this passtime with you child. Again, I cant wait to have kids, and I cant wait for them to be old enough for me to take them through Castle Ravenloft or Greyhawk or any other dungeon I create. I say go for it. P.S. I would argue about D&D not being mainstream. While it may not be a fad like pokemon or yu-gi-oh, it is exponentially more popular now than it was years ago when any of us started playing. And it is certainly a lot more widely accepted. And the more we, as players, stand up confidently and say "Yes, I play D&D!" the less criticism future generations of gamers will have to endure. Happy Gaming!
runestar 04-25-07, 07:38 AM	It will be interesting when her prep school vocabulary starts including words like disjunct, mnemonic, penultimate cogitation and prescience...:P
Seeker95 04-25-07, 09:29 AM	My daughter is 4 (and a half, as she will gladly point out). Last month she "played" D&D for the first time. She fought a skeleton, and won. She has been playing with my minis for a while now, but this was the first time we used dice rather than just "toy soldiers with monsters". My daughter, and eventually my son (currently 15 months old) will play D&D if they want to. And I will encourage them to "want to".
Tempest Stormwind 04-25-07, 09:33 AM	This may be heretic to mention so soon after the Dragon/Dungeon cancellation, but one of my more interesting wishes is to for 4th edition to be online, partially minis based, with central wotc databases storing characters, monsters, and adventures so I can get my D&D on in the comfort of my home (where I'll be needed), and perhaps peek in on his role-playing *if* he actually gets into it. It's also probably safer than having him hang around game stores, spending my moneys and hooking up with the weirder gamers.You can already do these things, actually, minus the central database. For instance, my current gaming group meets twice a week but has never once seen any of the others in person (except for the two of us from Nova Scotia, who are related). We found that we were all interested in D&D, we worked well together, and we use the internet as a surrogate tabletop through OpenRPG (there are others, but that's the preferred one for us). Mini map included (though we still make our own maps and minis), character information stored on computers and easily shared (though we still calculate and enter it; nodes handle the vast majority of our rolls, though), and it's all logged for saftey/security reasons. There's even lobbies for pick-up games. Now, as I'm only 22 and have no children in the foreseeable future, I don't have much else to add to this discussion. I do, however, want to link this (http://www.pvponline.com/rants_dd.php3), which still holds true today.
Bequeathal 04-25-07, 09:34 AM	If they want to, why wouldn't I?
Bacon and Eggs 04-25-07, 09:37 AM	Short answer. Yes. Without any concern.
Sarella Starshine 04-25-07, 09:47 AM	*points to her sig* i am in the same boat as seeker. I too am a parent of two very adorable girls. when they get old enough to understand the very basics, but young enough not to care about what other people think, I will start teaching them the joys of D&D and RPGs in general. They may either like it or not, but it would be something that they have tried and would make judgements of the game and those that play based on thier experiences instead of relying on what they are told. I want them to have a healthy attitude towards the game and to any hobbies that people are into, no matter how far away from the 'mainstream' that hobby is. I mean, it would be a very boring world if everyone was into the exact same stuff, and no one deviated from the 'normal'. I *want* my kids to be exposed to those 'wierder gamers' (though, trying to find people wierder than my husband and me...). I don't want my kids to make judgements on people based on thier hobbies, or feel that they superior to someone because of what they spend thier time on.
UAMDB 04-25-07, 09:53 AM	I want a few things to the conversation. D&D keep me out of trouble when I was younger. I started playing when I was in the 7th grade and I am now in my late 20's. My group of friends never got into trouble when we were playing D&D. However, if we took a break for a few weeks for what ever reason, someone would get into some serious trouble. Actually one of my friends mom hated us playing D&D. She really thought it was the Devil. But when she finally realized that when we spent the night playing at someones house, then they were not vandalizing things, or street racing. She even went so far as encouraging us to play at her house. She also sat in and watched a game and realized that we were no were close to Satanic. While D&D might not be mainstream, several of my "mainstream" friends or either in jail, or dead because of their mainstream hobbies, like drinking and street racing. Edit: I do not encourage either underage drinking or street racing. I refer to these "hobbies" as mainstream, because it is a popular thing for teenagers to do. At least where I grew up.
Millennium 04-25-07, 10:00 AM	I don't yet have kids. When I do, I intend to let them get into D&D if they want, but I intend to insist on two things: If you want to play, either I or your mother will be your first DM. The other parent will be a PC. Anyone else you want can also play. If you want to DM, your mother and I will be your first two PCs (or two of the PCs in your first party). Anyone else you want can also play.
celtredleg 04-25-07, 10:59 AM	I am not in much of a position to support your quest for the mainstream. In collage I had a bumpersticker on my door "please dear God dont let me be normal" I feel my prayer has been abundantly answered. As opposed to such mainstream activitys as teenage drinking, worship of britney spears and lindsey lohan, and joining gangs, niche activeties like DnD hold a certain charm. My 12 YO played 4-5 times decided she didnt like it, and has never played again. My 10 YO has played SDnD, Runequest and Flames of war (WWII miniatures game) with me for several years now. She loves it. My 4 YO has recently demanded to play when her sister does. So we let her into our home game. So yes, compared to so many other things she could be doing DnD is pretty safe. As for not being a mainline sheep, no problem, she can join the herd later if she choses.
Grand Theft Otto 04-25-07, 11:11 AM	. Critalondel: Very idealistic, but today is extremely different from 15 years ago, and children need vigilance, even if peripheral and unseen. I'd like to mold my kid just a lil. I'm definitely buying him legos and transformers that no one has heard of--because I definitely don't approve of "beign into" transformers, or any other marketing ploy they can't even bother to mask over. Maybe I'll get him one of the dinosaur transformers, no one's seen them in animated form for years. Dude, just say no to Go-Bots. Unless you intentionally want your kid to be a dork. "I dont want my kid to like popular things! Everything mainstream is bad!" If you want to intentionally isolate your kid from things their peers relate to, be prepared for the results. Its not the normal people that game who get picked on for being gamers, its smelly mouth breathers with poor social skills. And even then, they dont get picked on for being gamers, they get picked on for being smelly mouth breathers with poor social skills. RPG's are just another form of ammunition.
wrecan 04-25-07, 11:18 AM	So, fellow parents, would you get your kid into D&D in this day and age? Into an intellectual property that requires no small $ and lots of mental energy (not to mention time and actual effort)? Already have. My kids are 8 and 5 and are having a blast. And since we use the same pool of books as I use in my adult game, it's no added expense. Plus my kids had a great time painting their own miniatures. I really don't see a good argument not to let them play, if they want to.
LCD2YOU 04-25-07, 11:25 AM	I'm 43, have two girls, 16 and 14, and I've gamed with them since they were 7 and 5. The youngest is fine. The eldest's likewise a okay. Both are in Color Guard for their respective schools (high and middle school). Both have friends outside of gaming. I think both are far better off than almost all of the kids in our neighborhood who are sheltered and cloistered in a strict religious upbringing. The youngest no longer plays as it is not her thing. That's fine with me. The eldest and I still have games when my schedule allows it. As for "This day and age" thing, the more things change the more they stay the same. People at my work know I game. Yeah, they give me grief but nothing I can't handle or inflict back on them. I think you're borrowing trouble from a place it just don't exist.
e7way 04-25-07, 11:35 AM	First of all congrats on your new addition to your family. Well i guess ill throw my 2 cents worth in to the mix. I came from a small town and learned about D&D from my brothers (back in 1983) who played sports and were the popular guys in the class so i followed suit playing, sports, boy scouts the whole nine yards and that included playing D&D i got my friends into it we were captains of our sport teams, class presidents, drama, choir, homecoming kings all that good stuff not only that but we loved playing D&D!! When we were in high school instead of going out to party we like some of the other kids we stayed home on saturday nights and played D&D I think our parents liked that a lot better than going out drinking and being dumb like some of the other guys. In a small town really what are your chocies there are sports, school and what else....?? We didnt have a movie theatre, or malls to hang out at. So we played D&D. We all turned out fine one Im a business owner and a high school football coach, we also have a preacher, a lawyer, a wearhouse manager, an accountant, and a computer tech. And we still play 2 times a month. I just found out that my wife is expecting our first child and damn I cant wait to take him/her out to the back yard to play sports or on camping trips but I also cant wait to take him/her through B1 Keep on the Borderlands for the first time. So just make sure if you expose it to him or her abd that it doesnt turn into thier whole life. I think if it took over my life my parents would have put a kabosh on it. Just my 2 cents thanks
lord_gillord 04-25-07, 11:49 AM	As a parent I would let my children play DnD. I know there are RPG camps for teens around where I live. I think that it would be more social for them to get together with friend/family and play the game face to face then to sit on the computer and play a video game. It may not be as mainstream as it was when it first came out but there are still a lot of people playing it adults and children alike (at least where I am). If you are ambitious start a local club and include your child and his/her friends and teach them all.
Warforged Goblin 04-25-07, 11:58 AM	Dude, just say no to Go-Bots. Unless you intentionally want your kid to be a dork. Man, why must you be hatin' on Leader-1? *Ahem* Sorry about that. Now, as someone who is engaged to a wonderful, intelligent young woman who enjoys the occasional RPG session once in a while, our thoughts on child rearing are thus: Teach them everything they need to know and if you've done it right, they're still gonna eff it all up, which is ok. I'll be honest, I HATE organized sports. Call me crazy, but some old guy trying to relive his glory days through 11 and 12 year olds seemed kinda pathetic to me. Now, having just met my father-in-to be, I found out that he coached soccer for my younger half-brother in-law-to be for a season. His approach was what the other parents called "the hippy coach" tactic; everyone played, everyone had fun. It was about getting out, exercising a bit, and being with friends, not about winning or losing. That's what I hope to instill in my children; find something you enjoy and, as long as it doesn't hurt or someone else, do that to the best of your ability. That said, do I want to run a DnD club at my child's school when they're old enough? You bet your ass I do. Will I be disappointed if they want to be the quarterback of the basketball team and I need to buy them a batting helmet? Not in the least, as long as they're having fun doing it. "Popularity" be damned.
green_yawgmoth 04-25-07, 03:00 PM	Why not let your "kid" grow up into their own person, and decide for themselves what legal, healthy, hobbies they want to pursue?Because that's not the american way! We think of our kids as an alt, in which we labor over what character build we wish we had taken and try to mold the child into that. Letting your kid be his own person is crazy talk I say! Crazy talk! Yeah, just let the kid decide on their own what they wanna play. If it's D&D, sure! If it's WW, make sure they don't become a LARPer. ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
LadyAlaria 04-25-07, 04:35 PM	I am a father of two - Boy (10) and Girl (8). Avid player since high school, now in my 40s and living a very mainstream life. To complicate the scenario, my wife was raised in a strict fundamentalist household and was raised believing DnD was devil-worship. I hadn't played in about 5 years when my boy started to show an interest. I realized that if I didn't introduce him to it, he'd learn it "on the street". And he'd probably learn that Paladins are lawful-stupid, tomb robbing is cool, and all the other things that bother me about immature gamers. Since he was interested, I started explaining DnD not just to my boy, but to my wife as well. After a few months of exploratory conversations, we started a campaign. It has been about six months now, the party is fifth level, and everyone seems to have fun. I find it to be good family time. Sure, we could play Monopoly or Blockus, but DnD is a team-building exercise, not a competition, and it reinforces the family bonds. It particularly helps with the sibling rivalry. I find that it's a good way to reinforce our values. Teamwork, responsibility, helping others - these things are illustrated in the game, often vividly. As for the geek-factor, don't worry about it. All kids are geeks - whether they are football geeks or wowcraft geeks. DnD will help their reading and thinking skills, and stimulates creativity. Today they will be called "geek" - tomorrow they will be called "boss". If your kids show an interest - go for it. Take the opportunity to be a positive influence on your kids' play.
VrecknidjX 04-25-07, 04:40 PM	My 2 cents: I am 33 and a parent of 2 boys. My oldest, at the moment, is 12. Let me just say that there are a lot more steps to be worried about between now and ten years from now than social stigma from hobbies. Once that kid is born all this sillyness will slip away and you will be more worried aobut him/her fallin down the stairs or eating poo than anything like that. Let me give you one huge piece of advice right now: STOP PLANNING! Trust me things will change so much on a weeksly and monthly bassis that all your plans and worries now will be long forgotten in 6 month. Take things one day at a time and you will have more fun with your new child.Quoted for Truth.I'm 43, have two girls, 16 and 14, and I've gamed with them since they were 7 and 5. The youngest is fine. The eldest's likewise a okay. Both are in Color Guard for their respective schools (high and middle school). Both have friends outside of gaming.... The youngest no longer plays as it is not her thing. That's fine with me. The eldest and I still have games when my schedule allows it.Quoted for reference and similarity. I'm 39 and also the parent of two. My older son will be 18 in a few weeks, my younger son is 13. They've both been homeschooled since 4th grade, both have been actively involved with community groups since then, and both are doing fine academically and socially. My older son has been gaming with me since he was a baby (Mom was out shopping, and Dad wanted to game, so, Baby sat in Dad's lap as Dad DMed). He started showing an interest when he attended his first GenCon at age 6 (we did a day-trip, drove to Milwaukee, spent the day hanging out at the Exhibit Hall, and drove back home that night--he LOVED it). He's been to every GenCon since. My younger son is a video-game nut, and is the admin of his own messageboard site where video-game creation and modification is discussed. He likes d20 Modern, because he likes the "futuristic" feel that isn't offered in D&D. I didn't force either of them into gaming. My older son has sort of always been around it. He DMs a WoW RPG game that has a lot of players who absolutely love it. And, he's been a college student since he turned 14 (one class a semester, he's not some super genius or anything), and he's had a job for about a year now. Like most teenagers, he has a wide variety of likes, and has to balance them all in his life. Unlike most teenagers, one of those interests is RPGs. My younger son doesn't like RPGs as much as other games, and that's totally cool. I game with both of them. I spend a lot of time with my kids (more than some other parents), but there's no friend/parent issue. When it's time to be the Dad, I'm the Dad, when it's time to be a fellow gamer, I can do that too. As far as social stigmas and all that--it takes care of itself. Dave
razorboy 04-25-07, 05:01 PM	Why would you NOT let your kids play D&D? It's maybe once a week as opposed to time-sinking video games. It teaches basic math, good teamworking skills, working with others, better vocabulary, encourages people (not just kids) to read and acquire reading comprehension skills, sharpens problem-solving skills, and depending on the DMing style and other players it can encourage better tolerance for new or different things (a lot of religions, races and so on in a typical D&D world), not to mention establish good lasting friendships. I've been D&D player since Junior High school more than a decade ago, and I've never faced social stigma because I played it. Personally, I think I'm a better person now because of D&D. :)
Joesph_kurr 04-25-07, 05:01 PM	Well I am entering into my early 20's and have been playing dnd since 7th grade and I have found it enjoyable and educational building reading,math, and social skills. So the short anwser is yes get them into it and see how they like it.
Grand Theft Otto 04-25-07, 05:10 PM	thinking skills, and stimulates creativity. Today they will be called "geek" - tomorrow they will be called "boss". Man, I'm seriously tired of this rediculous statement. Want to know who the boss will be? The guy with social skills, not the spazz a hair away from aspergers. If you cant relate to a wide group of people, you'll be programming in a closet cubicle (unless it gets outsourced to a white collar sweatshop) while some guy with mediocre knowledge, but great interpersonal skills takes credit. Research grants? Once again, popularity and spin contests. Most of my gamer friends from highschool went on to get useless degrees in history, english, etc. I guess you could call them the boss of 200+ students or something. Every gamer I know in highschool who shook their pimply fist at the regular people still hasnt gotten their "revenge". It always struck me as an excuse for those unable to hold a conversation without bringing up THAC0 or something.
LadyAlaria 04-25-07, 07:30 PM	Man, I'm seriously tired of this rediculous statement. Yeah, it's a cheap throwaway line. But you know what? I was a geek, and now I'm the boss. Most of my boss-peers were also geeks. But it's true, some ugly ducklings grow up to be ugly ducks. Want to know who the boss will be? The guy with social skills, not the spazz a hair away from aspergers. Man, I'm seriously tired of this ridiculous statement. What all my peers have in common was an above-average amount of talent (mostly in engineering), and the ability to create opportunities. Social skills? Most were pretty hopeless back in school, and none are particular charming today. But there is only one social skill that matters: Listen. Anyone can learn that one.
Bruunwald 04-25-07, 08:10 PM	Define "mainstream." By the standard definition of mainstream, D&D is more mainstream than it's ever been. It sells better, it's more popular, it has more offshoots and side-games, more acceptance, a higher profile, and a whole generation of adults who grew up with it and have nostalgia for it (like Stephen Colbert). That said, the rest of the OP doesn't make much sense, either. To answer the question, my six-year-old son is already heavily involved in the old man's hobby, and everybody is just fine with that, especially plays-with-us Mom.
Prak, the Mad 04-25-07, 08:24 PM	I'm 19, going on 20 very soon, and have been a gamer since 4th grade, when I got into magic. It's been quite a journey, one that has given me many games I can sit down and play with friends for hours on end, and has helped me socialize in a way I would never have thought possible. Not only that, but D&D lets those of us who were "born in the wrong century" romp around according to our own moral code without having to worry about any more consequences than a temporarily dead character. So, as far as that goes, when my gf and I decide to have kids, I'm definately going to encourage my kids to play as many games as interest them.
LeuktheSavior 04-25-07, 08:30 PM	As a kid I can understand the desire to be "mainstream" and bdo things other people will be able to relate to and also find acceptable. but as a player of dnd and a child who loves fantasy and doing things with my imagination, i believe that it is a very important thing to allow children the option to play games like dnd. Alot of kids nowadays have moved away from the standard tabletop games and using their imagination and thinking games in favor of mindless video games with premade plots, characters and little versatility. dungeons and dragons is an intelligent game. If your children enjoy reading, and have an imagination, things like dnd allow them to grow and develop ideas and act out their own stories. On top of that, if your child has friends of a like mind, they can also play along and it will allow a deeper bonding because they can share their imaginary warriors and interact with them in a way that not only promotes cammaradarie, but allows for multiple kids to bounce ideas off of each other and make a more realistic and enjoyable time. Dnd is a game for smart kids. there are not alot of smart kids, and that is why in my opinion it never hit mainstream. Dnd forces you to take your dragon-slaying childhood hero and make him into a hero that others can see and interact with on a fair playing ground.
Capt. Pixel 04-26-07, 12:47 AM	NO, never would I let my children play D&D. If they learned critical thinking under a tactical situation or gained the ability to coelesce a large amount of written information into a cohesive result or, god forbid!, learned to manipulate simple mathematics without ciphering tools, then the world should surely end in fire and destrution unimaginable! pant pant pant. :nonono: But, alas, I didn't have such foresight and taught all four boys the 'game'. It did give them a decade of entertainment for a relatively small investment in materials and a substantially larger (but well spent) investment in time. So y'all should be preparing for Fire and Destruction Unimaginable some time soon. :cool:
Archangel62 04-26-07, 01:08 AM	If my kids wanted to play I'd be happy to teach em (though I'd probably need to dial it down a lot while they learned the game) If it wasn't for my old gaming group I'd be dead, and my new one helped me through a severe rough patch. Gaming makes friends and can help people find strength and confidence in themselves.
TheUndeadGamer 04-26-07, 01:20 AM	[QUOTE=Critalondel;12209312]It just seems to me that being paranoid about your child's future hobbies at this stage of "about to become a parent" is a little silly. Why not be more worried about having a healthy child, raising them to tell the truth and treat other people respectfully, encouraging them to do hard in school and make something of themselves, making sure they grow up knowing their family loves them, etc, etc -- instead of agonizing over whether or not their hobbies are "mainstream" enough? Seriously, man. You've got bigger stuff to worry about right now. You're going to be a raising a child, not rolling up a new PC. Worry about making them a good person, not a popular one Critalondel hit the nail square on the head with this one. I am 37 and have been playing D&D since I was 8. I have a 2 yr old daughter and another on the way. I can't wait to introduce them to the game to see if they like it as much as thier dad, but now isn't the time to worry about that. Enjoy your children while they are still children. Teach them. Keep them healthy. Be there for them. You don't need to be worrying about if D&D is "mainstream" enough for them. As long as you are spending time with your kids, it doesn't really matter what your doing. But, as stated by many others, D&D teaches many good skills
Slaywraith 04-26-07, 02:54 AM	I have to say, this seems to be somewhat of a hot topic in this day and age... I have been gaming for 17 years (got started late at 15), and i can truthfully say that the best and truest friends I have ever made have come from these good times. If this is wrong and "odd", then I would never want any of my children (of which I have none at the moment, but there is hope...) to be Normal. I would like to think that I would be willing to support any child of mine in anything that they do, but if what they wanted to do was engage in an activity that combines great social interaction, stretching and refining imagination, creative thinking, problem solving, storytelling, visualization techniques, referencing, memory building (where WAS that rule again?), math skills, reading ability (something sadly lacking in todays computer/TV-centric world), and tons of fun, I would happily support them (and game along right beside them!!!) Just my 2 Cents...:cool:
CCS 04-26-07, 04:38 AM	I don't mean this to sound as bad as it's going to. But this is a pretty dumb question coming from a gamer. Consider; Just because you're going to be a new parent (and congrats btw!) are you going to stop being a gamer? If you turn out at all even remotely like the vast majority of gamer/parents that have come before you, that answers NO. Oh, you'll be quite busy. But odds are that you'll still be playing something by the time your little ones old enough to become (seriously) interested. They'll see your stuff. Be it books full of glossy monster pictures, decks of cards, minitures of various types, whatever. Especially your minitures/dice. And they'll become interested on their own to varying degrees. At wich point you can test the waters by seeing exactly how they do with whatever you've got handy. THEY don't need to know it might not be the newest edition....:) (Ex; Right now we've got a Star Wars game running on Friday evenings with 4 adults & 3 kids age 8 - 14. The kids became interested in our various minitures/books etc so we decided to run a game suitable for them. They WANTED to mess with our WWII stuff, but that's still too advanced for them right now. Oh, and they've discovered Magic as well :)). Then, depending upon their further reactions, consider getting whatever other books etc you might need. But gamers tend to beget gamers....So I'd throw some $ in a CD now & let it roll so that when the day comes you'll be ready. Especially if they're taste runs towards the minitures. And if they turn out not to be gamers? There's always college & 1st cars to fund....
Etarnon 04-26-07, 04:47 AM	Ah, any RPG. I wouldn't start them off with D&D, I'd do Star wars d6, as it is much simpler, and the genre material is there.
Grand Theft Otto 04-26-07, 01:03 PM	Yeah, it's a cheap throwaway line. But you know what? I was a geek, and now I'm the boss. Most of my boss-peers were also geeks. But it's true, some ugly ducklings grow up to be ugly ducks. Mostly though, its through learning to interact with the average guy that helps transform those ducklings. Shrouding ourselves in auras of superiority and pedantic crap like correcting people's grammar doesnt go a long way in a corporate culture. Mostly I think many smart kids assume that they can use charisma as a dump stat so to speak and coast on their GPA. Thats just not the case IMX.
Iddig Ap Nil 04-26-07, 01:09 PM	Not only would I 'let' my kids get into D&D, I'd actively encourage it. It encourages them to learn about how the world works (not to mention the basics), it encourages socialization with their peers, and if they're interested in gaming it would give us that additional thing in common with one another. Who cares if it's not mainstream? It's also our duty to keep the hobby going by makin gmore little gamers :D
BigJohn42 04-26-07, 04:52 PM	Here's a couple more copper in the pot... Background: I have a 13 year old step-daughter, and a 1 year old girl. For a while, when my friends and I would take over the living room to game, my teen would hide in the bedroom with her mother, watching TV, gal-bonding, whatever. Eventually, the teen saw how much fun ol' Dad was having with his friends, sitting around the table. She eventually asked what we were doing... and I explained it. She asked to try it out, which I cleared with the other players, and she's been happily part of our game ever since (she's about to hit her first prestige class! I'm so proud :D ) I didn't force her to sit down and game, I didn't refuse to let her play. She showed an interest. As a responsible parent, if a child shows interest in an activity that I know to be at the very least not harmful, and quite possibly beneficial... it would be borderline neglectful to keep that from her. Nowadays, she's sitting in at the table with the boys, keeping up in the Role-playing, has her own dice, and slings bad puns just like the rest of us. Outside of gaming, she is a strong-willed individual, who refuses to conform for conformity's sake, but is hardly the furry-toothed outcast, either. In a school full of cliques and catty behavior, she holds her ground as an honorable person, and has friends in all of the various clicks (without actually being in one herself). Bottom line, Role-playing has not harmed her in the least. I think it's helped shape (warp?) her fragile little mind. I look forward to baby asking me why that die has twenty sides.
asdfff 04-26-07, 06:51 PM	Thanks to everyone who pitched in on their kids', or their own, experiences. The best advice is obviously let the kid grow up to be himself, but on the wizards boards, it's just...worrying on hobbyist time. For now the best thing that may happen for myself is that Wotc makes 4th Edition a low-computer-resource version of DDO Stormreach, with the small parties, not too many levels, and D&D's low-skill-#/high-combination-potential gameplay, at the convenience of my laptop (near the baby's crib).
darth_borehd 04-26-07, 07:06 PM	Man, I'm seriously tired of this rediculous statement. Want to know who the boss will be? The guy with social skills, not the spazz a hair away from aspergers. If you cant relate to a wide group of people, you'll be programming in a closet cubicle (unless it gets outsourced to a white collar sweatshop) while some guy with mediocre knowledge, but great interpersonal skills takes credit. Research grants? Once again, popularity and spin contests. Most of my gamer friends from highschool went on to get useless degrees in history, english, etc. I guess you could call them the boss of 200+ students or something. Every gamer I know in highschool who shook their pimply fist at the regular people still hasnt gotten their "revenge". It always struck me as an excuse for those unable to hold a conversation without bringing up THAC0 or something. Rebuttal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_gates
Malruhn 04-26-07, 10:43 PM	My 11 and 13 year-old daughters started this past year - after seeing how much fun their old man had while playing. My eldest has since decided that it's just not for her. My middle daughter has decided to go barbarian for her next character - and another gamer is born!! My youngest is six. I have a couple years for her to start...
Archangel62 04-27-07, 01:34 AM	Rebuttal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_gates Rebuttal Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/liferule.htm)
Perseus_Stoned 04-27-07, 01:45 AM	I use to spend all my money on video games and (I'm ashamed to admit) Yu-Gi-Oh cards. I have saved a couple thousand dollars by making the switch (over the past 3 years) and I guarantee I'm a lot happier with DnD over television screens.