Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ian0311 02-16-08, 10:32 PM	What is it? It is appearance? 'Force of Personality'? Innate social skill and/or body language control? I'm at a loss...I think it's more of a FoP or Innate Social skill, but some people in my group think it's Appearance.
Fuzzychan 02-16-08, 10:58 PM	Straight from D20SRD Charisma (Cha) Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a Charisma score.
Sarig the Genie 02-16-08, 11:08 PM	What is it? It is appearance? 'Force of Personality'? Innate social skill and/or body language control? I'm at a loss...I think it's more of a FoP or Innate Social skill, but some people in my group think it's Appearance. If someone think it's only appearance, point out that pit fiends don't have a high charisma for being beautiful (:
darkneolink 02-16-08, 11:11 PM	CHA = beauty? Wow the beauty is really in the eye of the beholder (Gauth CHA=13, Beholder CHA =15)
Ian0311 02-16-08, 11:20 PM	He believes that since there is no appearance stat, Cha has to be the appearance stat. I really think that is wrong.
darkneolink 02-16-08, 11:26 PM	Benito Pablo Juarez Garcia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Benito_Juarez_Presidente.jpg) Really charismatic president of mexico... not really beautifull Or think about the pretty yet really shy girl in the classroom who sits in the back... doesn't speak and no one realises she is there she is pretty but she has no force of personality.
Nathreet 02-16-08, 11:44 PM	charisma is persuasion, personal skills, flare. Things dnd players don't understand apparently :P. Politicians win votes with charisma. Diplomats need charisma to further a country's interest. Actors, both the people playing them and usually the people they play, have charisma.
Moose_Fisher 02-16-08, 11:54 PM	A sorcerer's good looks isn't the source of their power, but it is a bonus.:D In seriousness, charisma as "force of personality" is strongly supported through the game's mechanics (Diplomacy, Bluff, etc).
Crimson_Concerto 02-17-08, 01:39 AM	There is no appearance stat in D&D, and the people in your group who think CHA has anything to do with appearance are very wrong, and it's a shame that the PHB's definition of CHA is wrong too in including physical attractiveness at all. Since this same conversation is also going on in another thread, I'll just quote myself. :) I don't know about anybody else, but I've never associated appearance or physical attractiveness with Charisma, and I've ignored anything in the game's text to that effect. As far as my games are concerned, you can look however attractive or unattractive as you want, and I don't care because it won't have any particularly positive or negative role playing effects in game that aren't what you were looking for when you decided on that appearance anyways. You can be the adorable, sexy, handsome, blond, blue-eyed warrior who always seems to be shy and stutters whenever anybody thanks him for saving their lives or even talks to him at all. You can also be the fat, ugly, wretched, old, wrinkly hag who inspired fear and awe in whatever room she enters and never fails to draw a reaction. Charisma is much more insubstantial than looks, and the best way I've seen this illustrated is simply this: INT = Mental DEX WIS = Mental CON CHA = Mental STR Like STR allows you to exert your will upon the world physically, CHA allows you to exert your will upon the world mentally. This idea works for almost everything CHA is used for in D&D and leaves physical appearances completely out of it. No, I don't think appearance is or should be a part of CHA, but I also don't think appearance should be tied to any stat at all.
Tectorman 02-17-08, 01:45 AM	I'm going to kind of agree with Crimson Concerto here about the mental stats being equivalent to the physical stats. How would I put it? If Wisdom represents, among other things, your willpower, then Charisma would represent your ability to impose that willpower on other people.
Jaxgaret 02-17-08, 03:27 AM	The BoEF has rules for including Appearance in your games. In earlier editions of D&D, Charisma was a separate stat from Comeliness, which is equivalent to Appearance. Including appearance within the Charisma stat in 3e was a mistake IMO.
smeagol_lied 02-17-08, 11:08 AM	CHA=strength of soul, IMO
kelvinaw273 02-17-08, 12:53 PM	Charisma is social savvy, force of personality, your ability to project yourself, your confidence in social situations. With low charisma you either don't have the confidence, or you come off a boor. With high charisma, you have 'it'.
Naderion 02-17-08, 01:59 PM	Someone made this very good comparison a few days ago: Intelligence = Mental Dexterity Wisdom = Mental Constitution Charisma = Mental Strength When two people fight over leadership or whose plan should be followed, it's like mental arm wrestling. Charisma determines how strong you are in social struggles and how good you are in persuading people and how strong you push back. When you lose a will save (wisdom check) you are tricked and belive what others want you to belive. When you lose a charisma check, you don't have to belive it or to like it, but you accept that this time the other gets his way.
justicar347 02-17-08, 02:37 PM	Charisma does not necisarily mean appearance, however the two tend to go hand in hand. Creatures that have high charismas tend to be attractive. Even creatures that may not be attractive, but still have a high appearance will still have a very striking physical appearance. For example, a Dragon has good charisma, but most (though not all) would not consider it atractive, however it has a very striking physical appearance. Its more like a natural disaster you cannot look away from than the comparison of a nymph to a flower.