A simple, straightforward question: [Archive] - Wizards Community

A simple, straightforward question: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darczero
10-10-04, 05:35 AM Since when did "Balanced" mean "Weak?"

I have so far seen more complaints on these boards that "That's broken" or "That's simply unbalanced" than I have ever heard before in my gaming career. Having been gaming for 14 years (I know, some of you have been in it longer; give me a break, I'm only 23), both as a player and a DM, and having gamed with some of the worst munchkins imaginable, I've heard and seen quite a bit that is actually unbalanced and broken. But just because something offers a mild hint of power, situational or otherwise, doesn't mean that it's "Unbalanced."

I would like to know, how many of you out there really know what "Balance" is, just in regard to D&D? Why do you insist on complaining that almost everything out there is "Broken?" I would like to know where you get the ultimate frame of reference by which to judge everyone else, while still creating these "Unbalanced" and "Broken" things yourselves. I don't appreciate hypocrisy, especially when it's judgemental.

If you don't think something is "Balanced" then please explain why you can get away with something worse.
Seeker95
10-10-04, 08:35 AM You said "simple" and "straightforward". This question is neither of those. :D

Balanced means "weak" in the eyes of those who prefer a more powerful game than the core rules support. "Balanced" means that it falls within the core rules guidelines. The general guidelines at that.

A spell based on magic missile is not likely to be balanced because magic missile is not balanced. The rest of the 1st level damage spells are a better guage of balanced.

Balance can usually be achieved with a few tweaks. For spells, this can be as simple as raising it a level, dropping the max damage, or allowing a save. For items, it can usually be achieved by raising the price. For Feats it can be achieved by adding a prerequisite or two.

Broken is an extreme form of unbalanced, and tends to refer to any mechanic that, if permitted, is an obvious must have when given other equally available options. See my sig for an example of a broken item.

Broken can rarely be made balanced without major change to the item, spell, feat or concept.

Since I rarely present new magic items or spells (I consider most of the folks on these boards to be far more creative than I), I don't take personal issue with the last few paragraphs of the original post. But in general, them's fightin' words. Might be worth editing to avoid clouding your post with its own internal hypocrisy.
WWAD
10-10-04, 09:34 AM I would like to know, how many of you out there really know what "Balance" is, just in regard to D&D?

This depends on the game. In the games I run, an elf with the half-celestial template and Epic feats (without being CL 20) that he qualities for (based on his enourmous DEX) is balanced. In other games I play in, Dwarven Defender is banned because it's not balanced. So, not only is your question not simple, the answer isn't simple either.

kthnxbye.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darczero 10-10-04, 05:35 AM	Since when did "Balanced" mean "Weak?" I have so far seen more complaints on these boards that "That's broken" or "That's simply unbalanced" than I have ever heard before in my gaming career. Having been gaming for 14 years (I know, some of you have been in it longer; give me a break, I'm only 23), both as a player and a DM, and having gamed with some of the worst munchkins imaginable, I've heard and seen quite a bit that is actually unbalanced and broken. But just because something offers a mild hint of power, situational or otherwise, doesn't mean that it's "Unbalanced." I would like to know, how many of you out there really know what "Balance" is, just in regard to D&D? Why do you insist on complaining that almost everything out there is "Broken?" I would like to know where you get the ultimate frame of reference by which to judge everyone else, while still creating these "Unbalanced" and "Broken" things yourselves. I don't appreciate hypocrisy, especially when it's judgemental. If you don't think something is "Balanced" then please explain why you can get away with something worse.
Seeker95 10-10-04, 08:35 AM	You said "simple" and "straightforward". This question is neither of those. :D Balanced means "weak" in the eyes of those who prefer a more powerful game than the core rules support. "Balanced" means that it falls within the core rules guidelines. The general guidelines at that. A spell based on magic missile is not likely to be balanced because magic missile is not balanced. The rest of the 1st level damage spells are a better guage of balanced. Balance can usually be achieved with a few tweaks. For spells, this can be as simple as raising it a level, dropping the max damage, or allowing a save. For items, it can usually be achieved by raising the price. For Feats it can be achieved by adding a prerequisite or two. Broken is an extreme form of unbalanced, and tends to refer to any mechanic that, if permitted, is an obvious must have when given other equally available options. See my sig for an example of a broken item. Broken can rarely be made balanced without major change to the item, spell, feat or concept. Since I rarely present new magic items or spells (I consider most of the folks on these boards to be far more creative than I), I don't take personal issue with the last few paragraphs of the original post. But in general, them's fightin' words. Might be worth editing to avoid clouding your post with its own internal hypocrisy.
WWAD 10-10-04, 09:34 AM	I would like to know, how many of you out there really know what "Balance" is, just in regard to D&D? This depends on the game. In the games I run, an elf with the half-celestial template and Epic feats (without being CL 20) that he qualities for (based on his enourmous DEX) is balanced. In other games I play in, Dwarven Defender is banned because it's not balanced. So, not only is your question not simple, the answer isn't simple either. kthnxbye.