Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bartmanhomer 10-12-05, 04:03 PM	What kind of hero do you suggest for a monk?
Lyinginbedmon 10-12-05, 05:06 PM	Have you ever seen something involving Shaolin? That basically gives you the most stereotypical form of a Monk hero, and it works very well when roleplayed correctly. Or, you could go for the opposite. A Monk that continues their daily regime, but is completely dishonourable, taking whatever they please within the constraints of their personality and alignment, even their own personal moral code. This nonstandard character is very unpredicted and can easily throw some DMs off their games, which should be deliciously interesting :devil:
Bartmanhomer 10-12-05, 05:58 PM	A Shaolin! Wow. How does a Shaolin works?
malykoth 10-12-05, 07:13 PM	Uh...batteries?
Lyinginbedmon 10-13-05, 02:04 PM	See Wikipedia's entry on Shaolin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin)
Bartmanhomer 10-13-05, 02:27 PM	Wow that must a tough job being a Shaolin! :OMG! I just thought of something, Do you think a Shaolin monk would save somebody else life? For example, a male human LG LV 15 Monk would save a female human LG LV 15 Monk and A female human LG LV 10 rogue/LV 5 Paladin from two LV 15 LE elves rogue?
Lyinginbedmon 10-13-05, 03:59 PM	Wow that must a tough job being a Shaolin! :OMG! I just thought of something, Do you think a Shaolin monk would save somebody else life? For example, a male human LG LV 15 Monk would save a female human LG LV 15 Monk and A female human LG LV 10 rogue/LV 5 Paladin from two LV 15 LE elves rogue? Of course, as a LG character, let alone a character who believes in the importance of life, the Shaolin Monk would indeed save the rogue/paladin
Ront Iron-Roar 10-13-05, 07:02 PM	Why not a Jackie-Chan Drunken Master type?
Callista 10-13-05, 08:26 PM	I always thought Drunken Masters really should be permitted to be neutral on the L/C axis... just my opinion though. A friend of mine once played a rather odd sort of monk. She was a female dwarf who, as a young adult, had been in a battle; and her axe had broken. Because of the broken weapon, the dwarf was unable to protect a friend, who was then killed. She vowed to learn never again to depend on a weapon. Over the next decade or so, she would seek out various trainers (and only a few of them would consent to train a dwarf) to teach her what she needed to know. When she joined the party she was level 4, LG, and generally ended up being a guardian of sorts (she had an 18 CON, which allowed her to soak up damage). Personality-wise, she was pretty typical for a monk (quiet, disciplined, et cetera) except that she was the biggest mother-hen I have ever seen; and like many dwarves, she liked her ale quite a bit (though she absolutely refused to drink if there was danger about, since it might decrease her capabilities). This character was the only one I have ever seen, at level 4, walking around with nothing more than the clothes on her back, a silver or two, and maybe some rations in her backpack... by level 6 she had some minor magic items and some healing potions; but generally the character hated having to rely on anything at all other than herself. (I think the other players had persuaded the monk's player to get herself some items in order to continue being effective as a character; that is rather a weakness about D&D, in that by level 20 you end up being just the porter for all the magic items that are making you what you are.) The player left our group (she moved away) by the time the character had gotten to level 6, and about two months before I finally broke down and bought BoED; but if I had had it then, I would seriously have recommended VoP for that particular character.
Kozeljnik 10-14-05, 11:19 AM	Apostle Of Peace, if you don't mind taking prisoners and having a permanent "Field of no fun" around you...
Bartmanhomer 10-14-05, 04:40 PM	Wow that is so cool! :D
Bartmanhomer 10-14-05, 04:47 PM	Do you think a honorable if the monk allied or help with a characther who was born by a evil race but happen to be good? (Drizzt Do'Urden for example.)
Lyinginbedmon 10-14-05, 06:18 PM	Unlike Paladins, Monks tend to take the standpoint that a person is an individual and their race is their heritage, that the two are completely different portions. So, yes, a Monk would consider allying to a Good character from a typically Evil race, such a thing would almost be an honour for them
Callista 10-14-05, 10:10 PM	'Course he would, no problem. The Monk doesn't have detect evil, though, so generally the person-from-a-usually-evil-race would have to prove to the monk, somehow, that they really are not evil. One way I've seen this happen is that the monk (in this case a L2 Stone Giant monk) joined forces with the suspicous person (a CG kobold sorcerer) for the express purpose of watching him and make sure he wasn't up to something. After getting to know the kobold, the monk came to trust the non-evil-from-a-usually-evil-race character. You could also have "Detect Evil" cast on them by a cleric or paladin ally. In any event, it depends on your Monk's personality; but generally Good characters, even Lawful Good characters, will ally with someone from a race that usually causes trouble if it can be proven to them that this particular member of that race is different.
Bartmanhomer 10-15-05, 11:02 AM	Sweet! :D
kam_Islash 10-15-05, 12:20 PM	How is this for a concept: "Chestnut" comes from the temple of many trees, where he trained in the shaolin arts. He shaves his head by choice, and has six incense burns on his forehead. After leaving the temple he trained under the ancient Leshay master of the Archelon style of martial arts. His best friend was the half celestial known only as Wukong, who despite being younger than Chestnut had a full head over him. Chestnut is always trying his best to surpass Wukong...it is this determination that will make him one of the strongest humans on the prime material plane.
Bartmanhomer 10-15-05, 12:23 PM	Very deep. :)
Bartmanhomer 10-16-05, 03:10 PM	Is there such thing as a monk/paladin?
Bartmanhomer 10-16-05, 03:18 PM	Well I working to design my Shaolin monk hero. Here a sample: Alan (Male Human LG LV 1 Monk): Str: 15, Dex: 15, Con: 17, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 13
Lyinginbedmon 10-16-05, 05:55 PM	Yes, Monks can multiclass into Paladin, but not without sacrificing their ability to progress as Monks. You might want to try and increase the Wisdom to increase the modifier to AC, and later the DC of the Quivering Palm attack. Shaolin are also noted as being very wise, and they make excellent diplomats (Insinuating a high Charisma score). In short, increase Wisdom & Charisma a bit more if possible.
Ront Iron-Roar 10-16-05, 06:52 PM	I always thought Drunken Masters really should be permitted to be neutral on the L/C axis... just my opinion though. A friend of mine once played a rather odd sort of monk. She was a female dwarf who, as a young adult, had been in a battle; and her axe had broken. Because of the broken weapon, the dwarf was unable to protect a friend, who was then killed. She vowed to learn never again to depend on a weapon. Over the next decade or so, she would seek out various trainers (and only a few of them would consent to train a dwarf) to teach her what she needed to know. When she joined the party she was level 4, LG, and generally ended up being a guardian of sorts (she had an 18 CON, which allowed her to soak up damage). Personality-wise, she was pretty typical for a monk (quiet, disciplined, et cetera) except that she was the biggest mother-hen I have ever seen; and like many dwarves, she liked her ale quite a bit (though she absolutely refused to drink if there was danger about, since it might decrease her capabilities). This character was the only one I have ever seen, at level 4, walking around with nothing more than the clothes on her back, a silver or two, and maybe some rations in her backpack... by level 6 she had some minor magic items and some healing potions; but generally the character hated having to rely on anything at all other than herself. (I think the other players had persuaded the monk's player to get herself some items in order to continue being effective as a character; that is rather a weakness about D&D, in that by level 20 you end up being just the porter for all the magic items that are making you what you are.) The player left our group (she moved away) by the time the character had gotten to level 6, and about two months before I finally broke down and bought BoED; but if I had had it then, I would seriously have recommended VoP for that particular character. ~Shrugs~ Dwarves get drunk at times, yet many are Lawful good. Drunken Master could be a good guy, he just loves his drink. Though, in true respect to drunkenmaster's they weren't actually supposed to get drunk necessarily just mimic it.
Lyinginbedmon 10-18-05, 04:21 PM	Very true, their combat methods generally involve swaying, shuffling motions that make them seem to be drunk, whilst allowing them to change their balance quickly and efficiently, which makes them easy to perform somewhat drunken acrobatics whilst dealing unknown damage to their enemy. So yes, Drunken Masters very rarely get drunk, and in actuality drunkness can actually be degenerative to their combat abilities. Wizards really needs to Errata that :(
Bartmanhomer 10-18-05, 05:28 PM	Yes, Monks can multiclass into Paladin, but not without sacrificing their ability to progress as Monks. You might want to try and increase the Wisdom to increase the modifier to AC, and later the DC of the Quivering Palm attack. Shaolin are also noted as being very wise, and they make excellent diplomats (Insinuating a high Charisma score). In short, increase Wisdom & Charisma a bit more if possible. Cool! So you mean to tell me once the monks get to the paladin level, the monk is unable to gain their ability?
St. Maelstrom 10-18-05, 05:49 PM	Unlike Paladins, Monks tend to take the standpoint that a person is an individual and their race is their heritage, that the two are completely different portions. So, yes, a Monk would consider allying to a Good character from a typically Evil race, such a thing would almost be an honour for them Lyinginbedmon, this is nothing personal, but I find that a 'class-ist' thing to say. Paladins are not innate bigots or walking prejudice bound with platemail. Remember, they often have very good Charisma and high Wisdom add that to a GOOD alignment, and you have yourself a fairly respectful, tolerant person. Let us not let the Lawful aspect of the Paladin get the better of us. If the Paladin has a Wisdom of 6 and a strong lawful trait or a charisma of 4, well then I retract my statement. (Again, please note this isn't personal. I'd just like people to stop sterotyping paladins too quickly.)
St. Maelstrom 10-18-05, 05:53 PM	Cool! So you mean to tell me once the monks get to the paladin level, the monk is unable to gain their ability? With the standard multiclassing rules, yes. Once the multiclass out of Monk OR Paladin there is no going back. However, I allow my players to multiclass freely between the two, as long as it is appropriate for their culture. A Shaolin-like fantasy culture would "probably" pass.
Lyinginbedmon 10-18-05, 06:16 PM	Lyinginbedmon, this is nothing personal, but I find that a 'class-ist' thing to say. Paladins are not innate bigots or walking prejudice bound with platemail. Remember, they often have very good Charisma and high Wisdom add that to a GOOD alignment, and you have yourself a fairly respectful, tolerant person. Let us not let the Lawful aspect of the Paladin get the better of us. If the Paladin has a Wisdom of 6 and a strong lawful trait or a charisma of 4, well then I retract my statement. (Again, please note this isn't personal. I'd just like people to stop sterotyping paladins too quickly.) I realise, and perhaps I should have worded it better, but Paladins suffer the social stigma of being unable to ally with evil creatures, and thus have to take great pains to make sure that they do not associate with someone who could just as easily be using a spell to purvey a different alignment to their actual one, that which may or may not be tied to their race (Misdirection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/misdirection.htm) does this quite easily at 3rd level).
Bartmanhomer 10-18-05, 07:14 PM	Oh I see. Well I come up with a few more monk heroes. Don't worry this is just a preview of it. Stan (Male Gnome LG Monk LV 1): Str: 11, Dex: 15, Con: 19, Int: 15, Wis: 13, Cha: 13 Eric: (Male Dwarf LG Monk LV 1): Str: 17, Dex: 15, Con: 20, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 9
Cam S. 10-19-05, 04:45 PM	Two Feats from the Eberron campaign setting to consider: Monastic Training and Knight Training. You only need to take one of them, though. Basically, it allows a Monk or Paladin to multiclass freely with one other class--if you select Monastic Training (Paladin) or Knight Training (Monk), it works both ways. The normal Experience penalties, allignment restrictions, et cetera, apply. There are no requirements for these feats, so you can get one of them at first level.
Bartmanhomer 10-19-05, 04:56 PM	Cool man! :D
Bartmanhomer 10-19-05, 05:08 PM	Are there any famous monk heroes to used as player characthers or non-player characthers?
Lyinginbedmon 10-19-05, 05:20 PM	See this Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddhists) for information on famous Monks, not all are exactly heroes, but you can go from there to read about most of them. Of note are: An Shih Kao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Shih_Kao) Baizhang Huaihai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizhang_Huaihai) Bodhidharma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma) Eisai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisai) Joshu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshu) Ryokan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryokan) Somdej Toh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somdej_Toh) (Known for magical amulets #wink#wink#) Takuan Soho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takuan_Soho) Wonchuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonchuk)
Bartmanhomer 10-19-05, 05:23 PM	WOW! That is so cool! I could use a couple of them! :D
Bartmanhomer 10-19-05, 06:48 PM	Does anybody have any story idea for roleplaying a Shaolin Monk?
Lyinginbedmon 10-20-05, 02:18 PM	Okay, how about this: Mil Nao was born an orphan, his mother and father perishing to a Blackguard named Arduul shortly after his birth. Fortunately, Arduul saw no immediate threat in Mil, and left to completely destroy the village he was born in. Shortly afterwards, a monk from the nearby Temple of Oh Ma Kahn heard his crying from amongst the charred ruins, and instantly saw great potential within Mil, however, what he saw was the potential for great destruction led by a fearsome entity existing within him, and he sought to hastily take him to the temple. There, Mil trained under the great Master Oh Ma Kahn of the study of Shaolin for 17 long years. He blossomed under his care, but deep inside he knew that there was someone, or something, out in the world beyond the temple walls that he was destined to destroy, and that there was something that kept all the monks quiet when he mentioned a 'great power'. Distraught, he left the temple at the age of 20 and began his quest through the world to seek enlightenment, as all of Oh Ma Kahn's fighting monks do. He had not traveled far before he found the ruins of his town. And the graveyard gates...
Millennium 10-20-05, 09:12 PM	You could always do the truly unexpected and do something akin to Genjo Sanzo from Gensoumaden Saiyuki: a foul-mouthed gun-toting beer-drinking jerk who's maybe two steps away from achieving enlightenment but hasn't figured out the last step and doubts it even exists.
Bartmanhomer 10-21-05, 04:15 PM	Okay, how about this: Mil Nao was born an orphan, his mother and father perishing to a Blackguard named Arduul shortly after his birth. Fortunately, Arduul saw no immediate threat in Mil, and left to completely destroy the village he was born in. Shortly afterwards, a monk from the nearby Temple of Oh Ma Kahn heard his crying from amongst the charred ruins, and instantly saw great potential within Mil, however, what he saw was the potential for great destruction led by a fearsome entity existing within him, and he sought to hastily take him to the temple. There, Mil trained under the great Master Oh Ma Kahn of the study of Shaolin for 17 long years. He blossomed under his care, but deep inside he knew that there was someone, or something, out in the world beyond the temple walls that he was destined to destroy, and that there was something that kept all the monks quiet when he mentioned a 'great power'. Distraught, he left the temple at the age of 20 and began his quest through the world to seek enlightenment, as all of Oh Ma Kahn's fighting monks do. He had not traveled far before he found the ruins of his town. And the graveyard gates... That a good start for my story! I could definately used this one for Alan's background! :D
Bartmanhomer 10-21-05, 04:38 PM	Well I working to design my Shaolin monk hero. Here a sample: Alan (Male Human LG LV 1 Monk): Str: 15, Dex: 15, Con: 17, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 13 Just a thought, how would you compare my shaolin hero ability score rating: *(1)-Weakling **(2)-Below Average ***(3)-Average ****(4)-Above Average *****(5)-Highly Dangerous ******(6)-Powerful! Run For Your Life! You can comment and tell me why! (Just Like My heroes and villains thread!) :D
Lyinginbedmon 10-21-05, 05:40 PM	I'd rate it about a ****. I compared it to a level 11 Monk (Going on paladin) in my gaming group by totalling the modifiers (He had 13), and you were 4 off, so I'd say just above average. 'Second-Side' background If you plan on using the full extent of my little Mil Nao background (Ie. the 'inner monster'), you may want to consider giving him a second side (Like a second personality) that comes out when he is low on health, possibly a Barbarian<Gestalt>Monk with class levels equal to those of the normal character. Making it a Gestalt (Especially in a non-gestalt campaign) adds to the power of the second side, though I recommend allowing the DM to control him when it comes out. Barbarian<Gestalt>Monk Hit Dice: d12 Base Attack Bonus: As the Barbarian Base Saving Throw Bonuses: All Good (Basically, all Monk :P ) Class Skills: [Skill points at any given level: (4+Int modifier)*Level+3] Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex) Class Features: Of both classes, if they both have the same feature use the one gained earliest.
Bartmanhomer 10-22-05, 10:10 AM	Is there such thing as a samurai, ninja, or any other far-eastern class in D&D?
Lyinginbedmon 10-22-05, 10:48 AM	There is, but most of them are prestige classes. They are found in both the Oriental Adventures and the Complete Adventurer sourcebooks
Bartmanhomer 10-22-05, 12:15 PM	Cool man! :D
Bartmanhomer 10-22-05, 12:35 PM	Just what a good ability score for An Shih Kao, Baizhang, Bodhidharma and Eisai for a Level 1 Monk?
Bartmanhomer 10-22-05, 12:47 PM	Do you also have a background idea of a Lawful Good Shaolin Monk, too?
Lyinginbedmon 10-22-05, 01:07 PM	Just use Mil Nao's, I considered him Lawful Good when writing it, and it means that his 'second side' is Chaotic Evil, all the better to cauterise your teeth :devil: As for the non-fictional monk heroes, at level 1 they should all have pretty average ability scores for the monk class, because it's primarily through experience that anyone gets their greatest aspects. For base marks though, I'd use the Elite array
Bartmanhomer 10-24-05, 05:29 PM	Just use Mil Nao's, I considered him Lawful Good when writing it, and it means that his 'second side' is Chaotic Evil, all the better to cauterise your teeth :devil: As for the non-fictional monk heroes, at level 1 they should all have pretty average ability scores for the monk class, because it's primarily through experience that anyone gets their greatest aspects. For base marks though, I'd use the Elite array What Mil Nao's stat's information?
Lyinginbedmon 10-24-05, 08:18 PM	He doesn't have any, he's just the name of the monk character in the background history. Simply substitute his name for that of your monk and you're pretty much set
Bartmanhomer 10-25-05, 05:34 PM	Sweet! :D
Bartmanhomer 10-25-05, 05:37 PM	Oh I see. Well I come up with a few more monk heroes. Don't worry this is just a preview of it. Stan (Male Gnome LG Monk LV 1): Str: 11, Dex: 15, Con: 19, Int: 15, Wis: 13, Cha: 13 Eric: (Male Dwarf LG Monk LV 1): Str: 17, Dex: 15, Con: 20, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 9 By a rating of 1-6, how would you compare the two monks?
Lyinginbedmon 10-25-05, 06:26 PM	Stan (Male Gnome LG Monk LV 1): Str: 11, Dex: 15, Con: 19, Int: 15, Wis: 13, Cha: 13 Monks specialise in hand-to-hand combat and grappling, which small creatures take a penalty to. So the Gnome aspect of Stan harms the character slightly, though his Constitution is abnormally high for most starting characters, which gives him a good 12 HP. Wisdom still seems to be pretty low, remember that you get an AC bonus from Wisdom as a Monk. *** Eric: (Male Dwarf LG Monk LV 1): Str: 17, Dex: 15, Con: 20, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 9 Dwarves are a Medium race, so the size penalty is absent here. Wisdom still pretty low, but the extremely high starting Constitution gives him 13 HP. ***.5
Bartmanhomer 10-26-05, 04:28 PM	Sweet! :D What kind of hero do you suggest for a cleric?
Bartmanhomer 10-26-05, 05:53 PM	What would you make of this cleric? Valerie (Female Human NG Cleric LV 1): Str: 13, Dex: 11, Con: 13, Int: 13, Wis: 17, Cha: 15
Lyinginbedmon 10-27-05, 09:19 AM	Clerics need Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma to work effectively. The high starting Wisdom of 17 gives Valerie a bonus of +3, pretty good start. The 15 Charisma is needed to turn/rebuke undead, and this gives her a +2 to it and allows her to do so 5 times a day. Not bad either. The Constitution is where she seems to fall down though, a 13 Constitution is a +1 modifier, and that means she starts with just 9 HP. Definitely could be better. Dexterity also needs work for someone who is very incompetent in melee. Overall: **
kam_Islash 10-27-05, 02:13 PM	What would you make of this cleric? Valerie (Female Human NG Cleric LV 1): Str: 13, Dex: 11, Con: 13, Int: 13, Wis: 17, Cha: 15 Is she a blue haired cleric to bahamut wed to a cleric of St Eva?
Bartmanhomer 10-28-05, 04:23 PM	No, she a cleric of Pelor.
Bartmanhomer 10-28-05, 04:28 PM	Ok, what about this heroic wizard? Joe (Male Human NG Wizard LV 1): Str: 11, Dex: 15, Con: 11, Int: 17, Wis: 13, Cha: 13
Lyinginbedmon 10-28-05, 05:25 PM	Joe (Male Human NG Wizard LV 1): Str: 11, Dex: 15, Con: 11, Int: 17, Wis: 13, Cha: 13 Well, firstly Joe is a terrible name for a Wizard, but they're my favourites anyway :P. The Intelligence of 17 gives a +3 bonus and some bonus spells. The Dexterity of 15 is a +2, which could be better since Wizards aren't proficient with any armor. The Strength and Constitution should all be better, to improve his melee prospects and HP. Overall ***
Bartmanhomer 10-29-05, 10:49 AM	Sweet! :D How about these two heroes: Alex: (Male Human NG Wizard LV 1/Cleric LV 1): Str: 13, Dex: 13, Con: 13, Int: 15, Wis: 15, Cha: 17 Ebony: (Female Human LG Rogue LV 1/Paladin LV 1): Str: 15, Dex: 17, Con: 17, Int: 15, Wis: 15, Cha: 15
Bartmanhomer 10-30-05, 02:25 PM	I also come up with a few more heroes too: Tai: (Male Human NG Fighter LV 1): Str: 17, Dex: 15, Con: 13, Int: 11, Wis: 11, Cha: 13 Matt: (Male Human NG Rogue LV 1): Str: 13, Dex: 17, Con 13, Int: 15, Wis: 11, Cha: 11 Homer: (Male Human NG Rogue LV 1/Fighter LV 1): Str: 17, Dex: 17, Con: 13, Int: 15, Wis: 11, Cha: 13 I also use one of the non-fictional monks ability score to test it's out a bit so here goes! Ah Shih Kao: (Male Human LG Monk LV 1): Str: 15, Dex: 15, Con: 17, Int: 11, Wis: 18, Cha: 18
Bartmanhomer 11-02-05, 07:19 PM	Sweet! :D What kind of hero do you suggest for a cleric? I still need an answer!
Quenditar 11-02-05, 07:50 PM	There are lots of types of clerics. Mystics who spend their time thinking about the meaning of their god, theologians who try to establish a consistent and logical faith, evangelists out to spread the word, crusaders attacking their god's enemies, careerists in it for the nice living, faithful who try to emulate their god's way of life, and others. Just remember that a cleric is a cleric because of their devotion to someone or some philosophy outside, beyond, and above the self.
Bartmanhomer 11-04-05, 04:51 PM	Cool! :D
Bartmanhomer 11-04-05, 04:55 PM	What about heroes for wizards?
Quenditar 11-04-05, 05:36 PM	Ah, wizards. The basic question is, why does this person want to spend decades learning about barely-perceptible forces, the laws that explain how wiggling fingers makes monsters appear, and how to lift stacks of books taller than themselves? Power? Wealth? Knowledge for its own sake? Also, a field of specialization (not necessarily in the game sense) would be a good idea. PC wizards use a little of everything, but a research wizard probably specializes in one field.
Bartmanhomer 11-05-05, 10:33 AM	What a mixture of wizard/cleric and rogue/paladin heroes?
kam_Islash 11-21-05, 06:59 PM	For wizards you could stat Korialstrasz :)