Ability confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ability confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CorSecJedi
06-27-05, 10:38 PM Ok, this has probably been debated back and forth before, and I probably am going to ignite some sort of firestorm, but I am seriously confused. I am planning for my first campaign as DM and am working on drawing up some new creatures for my campaign. The race that I am having problems with right now in particular is the Pegetar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=451895). I am having some trouble working out the ability benefits for the race. Basically my problem comes down to which ability is worth more or less as a bonus or penalty. On page 173 of the DMG, it seems to suggest that Strength and Dexterity are the two most important abilities, with the rest of them kind of equal. For example, a bonus to strength should be countered by a penalty to two mental abilities. Yet a lot of what I have seen on the boards and in some of the replies on my post seem to indicate the exact opposite. Who is right, if there is a right in this case?
weasel fierce
06-28-05, 12:25 AM Look at what benefits and drawbacks the race gets overall. For example, a race which gets a bonus to several ability scores, might have other drawbacks or restrictions limiting them.
Colmarr
06-28-05, 01:47 AM Weasel fierce is right. Racial ability modifiers need not be balanced against themselves so long as the overall race is balanced for its LA.
amethal
06-28-05, 08:38 AM The perceived wisdom is not to give a race a bonus to a mental stat without also giving it a level adjustment.

A +2 to a mental stat is not by itself enough to give a level adjustment, but the race should then be given sufficient additional abilities to justify the level adjustment.

The reasoning behind this is that the appropriate mental stat is so vital to casters that if you design a race with +2 to Int all the players will choose this race for their wizards, unless the race also has a level adjustment.

There are no +0 LA adjustment races in the PHB or MM which have a bonus to a mental stat.

There are plenty in Forgotten Realms, which is either a sign that its not a rule after all, or that the rules don't apply to the Realms!
J Milburn
06-28-05, 11:38 AM There is the grey elf in the monster manual, but that has about a paragraph about it in every book i have read put together.
CorSecJedi
06-28-05, 11:36 PM So, if mental stats are so much more important, why does the DMG seem to suggest otherwise? Am I misinterpreting it? Also, what is the difference between a bonus to Wis or Cha and a bonus to Str? Str helps on a number of skills, ability to hit and damage things, and help grapple checks? Aside from Int (which I sorta understand, being that it also benefits languages and skills, are the other mental stats worth that much?
Archangel_James
06-28-05, 11:45 PM If you choose a race with a bonus to physical stats, you probably won't need the mental stats for your class, so the little penalties you get from them need to stack up in order for it to be balanced. On the other hand, classes that use mental stats (namely spellcasters) get tremendous benefits from the bonuses, so they need level adjustments to keep the magic powers in check.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CorSecJedi 06-27-05, 10:38 PM	Ok, this has probably been debated back and forth before, and I probably am going to ignite some sort of firestorm, but I am seriously confused. I am planning for my first campaign as DM and am working on drawing up some new creatures for my campaign. The race that I am having problems with right now in particular is the Pegetar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=451895). I am having some trouble working out the ability benefits for the race. Basically my problem comes down to which ability is worth more or less as a bonus or penalty. On page 173 of the DMG, it seems to suggest that Strength and Dexterity are the two most important abilities, with the rest of them kind of equal. For example, a bonus to strength should be countered by a penalty to two mental abilities. Yet a lot of what I have seen on the boards and in some of the replies on my post seem to indicate the exact opposite. Who is right, if there is a right in this case?
weasel fierce 06-28-05, 12:25 AM	Look at what benefits and drawbacks the race gets overall. For example, a race which gets a bonus to several ability scores, might have other drawbacks or restrictions limiting them.
Colmarr 06-28-05, 01:47 AM	Weasel fierce is right. Racial ability modifiers need not be balanced against themselves so long as the overall race is balanced for its LA.
amethal 06-28-05, 08:38 AM	The perceived wisdom is not to give a race a bonus to a mental stat without also giving it a level adjustment. A +2 to a mental stat is not by itself enough to give a level adjustment, but the race should then be given sufficient additional abilities to justify the level adjustment. The reasoning behind this is that the appropriate mental stat is so vital to casters that if you design a race with +2 to Int all the players will choose this race for their wizards, unless the race also has a level adjustment. There are no +0 LA adjustment races in the PHB or MM which have a bonus to a mental stat. There are plenty in Forgotten Realms, which is either a sign that its not a rule after all, or that the rules don't apply to the Realms!
J Milburn 06-28-05, 11:38 AM	There is the grey elf in the monster manual, but that has about a paragraph about it in every book i have read put together.
CorSecJedi 06-28-05, 11:36 PM	So, if mental stats are so much more important, why does the DMG seem to suggest otherwise? Am I misinterpreting it? Also, what is the difference between a bonus to Wis or Cha and a bonus to Str? Str helps on a number of skills, ability to hit and damage things, and help grapple checks? Aside from Int (which I sorta understand, being that it also benefits languages and skills, are the other mental stats worth that much?
Archangel_James 06-28-05, 11:45 PM	If you choose a race with a bonus to physical stats, you probably won't need the mental stats for your class, so the little penalties you get from them need to stack up in order for it to be balanced. On the other hand, classes that use mental stats (namely spellcasters) get tremendous benefits from the bonuses, so they need level adjustments to keep the magic powers in check.