Ability point system? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ability point system? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
xParadox
10-14-06, 02:35 PM I've read through the players hand book and I couldn't find anything about the point system for asigning abilities. If my DM says he's using a 32 point system what does that mean? and how do I put my stats in?
Drohem
10-14-06, 02:48 PM It's not in the PHB. It's in DMG (v3.5) p. 169. It's also in D20 Modern p. 15.

[Sorry, but this isn't in the SRD so it can't be posted on the boards.]
Bowmore
10-14-06, 07:30 PM In my opinion, spending points to raise a stat over 16 is a waste. One of the most fun characters I ever made using 32 points had four 14s, a 12, and a 10. Best of all, he was a fighter, so he could qualify for the start of most of the feat trees. He was a lot of fun to play because he was so versatile, but on the downside, he was never really a master at anything. I guess that's how it goes: "Jack of all trades, master of none"

And my apologies to anyone who is tired of hearing that. :P
CharlieRock
10-14-06, 07:41 PM I liked rolling for them. How do you "roll up a new character" without rolling? :(
Bowmore
10-15-06, 02:04 AM You don't unfortunately... I prefer rolling to the point system myself. Part of the fun of making a new character is rolling your stats randomly and picking where they go. Alternatively, if you haven't picked a class, rolling them in order. :dancin:
Lina_Inverse
10-15-06, 04:25 AM In my opinion, spending points to raise a stat over 16 is a waste. One of the most fun characters I ever made using 32 points had four 14s, a 12, and a 10. Best of all, he was a fighter, so he could qualify for the start of most of the feat trees. He was a lot of fun to play because he was so versatile, but on the downside, he was never really a master at anything. I guess that's how it goes: "Jack of all trades, master of none"

And my apologies to anyone who is tired of hearing that. :P

If your a spellcaster with less than an 18 in your key attribute something is WRONG.

Ill agree with that for most non-casters though.
Azezel
10-15-06, 04:34 AM If your a spellcaster with less than an 18 in your key attribute something is WRONG.

Good lord man - the OP is a new player (I think - if not, my appologies), what for you have to go fill his/her head with your powergaming claptrap?

OP - whilst I preffer to roll, like all good-hearted people, I recognise that point buy is fashionable at the minute. If you are using point buy, 14 or 16 is plenty for any score.

Bowmore was right on the money - a few fourteens and twelves are ideal.
Lina_Inverse
10-15-06, 04:48 AM Good lord man - the OP is a new player (I think - if not, my appologies), what for you have to go fill his/her head with your powergaming claptrap?

Its called being a good player. You can either be effciant, ignorant of what is effciant(ie a newbie) or you can be intentionally ineffciant.

Are you argueing i walk on my hands?

OP - whilst I preffer to roll, like all good-hearted people, I recognise that point buy is fashionable at the minute. If you are using point buy, 14 or 16 is plenty for any score.

Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion.
Azezel
10-15-06, 05:21 AM Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion.

Can I put that in my sig?
Lina_Inverse
10-15-06, 05:56 AM Can I put that in my sig?

You dont even need ask.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-15-06, 06:02 AM You know what's fun? Roll up stats using whatever method you like, then look at the point buy table and figure out how many points you would need to buy those scores.

Longest running character I ever had was worth 54 points. 4d6 drop, reroll 1s. God, I love rerolling 1s.
Escef
10-15-06, 10:01 AM Its called being a good player. You can either be effciant, ignorant of what is effciant(ie a newbie) or you can be intentionally ineffciant.

There is a difference between efficiency and powergaming. A caster does not need an 18 in their casting stat. A caster who focuses on buffing or healing does not need a high casting stat. Therefore you don't put a high stat there, that is efficiency. In fact, it is often more efficient to buff others than it is to attack directly. (This is for low to mid levels, at high level the story changes somewhat.)

An example of how you DON"T need a high stat: A 6th level human wizard with sudden maximize, sudden empower, and improved spell focus, Int 14. He's an enforcer, a mercanary mage. He's looking for the PC's. His familiar finds them. He prepares by dropping a couple buff spells (perhaps from scrolls); mage armor, sheild, fox's cunning, etc. He engages the PCs. Sudden maximized, sudden empowered fireball, save DC 19 (buffed int 18 +4, spell focus/improved +2 total, spell level 3), damage 36 + (6d6)/2 (average 46.5). If the wizard engaged at long range whoever he doesn't kill with that fireball he can finish off with ranged spells. The rogue has a 50/50 chance of surviving, the cleric is most likely dead or severly wounded, the party wizard is most likely dead (even if he makes his save), and the fighter badly wounded. If the cleric is still up, he's the next target, then the fighter.

If an npc can do this with a 14 Int than there is absolutely NO reason to believe that a PC caster needs an 18 in his primary stat to be efficient.
CharlieRock
10-15-06, 10:06 AM Its called being a good player. You can either be effciant, ignorant of what is effciant(ie a newbie) or you can be intentionally ineffciant.

Are you argueing i walk on my hands?

Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion.

You don't necessarily have to start with 18. Long before you need those eight points over ten you will recieve (at least) 2 ability upgrades. Starting with 16 is doable ,especially if you put those increases with levelling into your prime requesite.

btw ... :rofl:
Bowmore
10-15-06, 01:13 PM Don't forget racial adjustments! There have been many times I've left an elf character's dexterity at 14 (raising it to 16 with racial adjustments) so I can put more points elsewhere.

Also, have any of you thought of rolling stats, comparing the totals to the table in the DMG, then 'compensating' with extra skill points or a feat or whatever if not enough points have been spent, in a manner of speaking? This would only apply, I think, if the character's total was significantly below the agreed upon 'power level' of the game (like 32).
Mordrid Soud
10-15-06, 01:53 PM There is no right or wrong way to build a character (unless you are trolling). I have been playing/running D&D since AD&D and I can tell you I prefere the point buy. I can tell you why I like it better than rolling (everyone's a bit more balanced at creation, you have to choose which stat is the most important to you-though with the 28 points I use you still have decent stats in the other abillities- so having a character with a score of a 16 or 18 is actually impressive and means something, but this is just an opinion), but for me to say that one way is better than another would a bit arogant on my part.
Alon D'ar
10-16-06, 03:36 PM I've donw point buy before although I did it on a 28 point system. Kinda low but it worked out in the end and that was also because I had the misfortune with playing with peopel who are as dumb as dirt. Somene was a barbarian with an int of 16 and treated his barbarian like he had to be incredibly stupid. He also complained that his int was his lowest score and his character was stupid. 16 is low if your a dragon or something.
PineBark
10-16-06, 03:55 PM Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion.
I disgree :P. Some of the ways of rolling your stats are in the dmg too alongside the point-buy system. Besides if you'd want to generate an npc really quick you could just grab any stats that fits it, the point-buy system would waste you time.
Anyway, point-buy ftw! After I've started using it I never looked back at rolling stats.
LCD2YOU
10-16-06, 05:41 PM No, one only needs an 18 Intellignece to cast 8th level spells.

A true spellcaster, Druids, Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, etc., should start with a 15 in their main stat. That is so by the time they are 16th level, their 4th stat increase goes into that primary ability allowing them to cast 9th level spells, just in time.

If a Wizard starts with a 14 in Int but puts every stat increase into Intelligence, they won't be able to cast any 9th level spell until they reach 20th level.
WinterPsionic
10-16-06, 07:10 PM So that's what it means :rolleyes:

I actually never knew and for the most part I think it's rather stupid. The last 3 character's I've rolled up were in excess of a 70 point buy. Get yourself a pair of lucky dice, a DM that let's you reroll 1's and your set.

I'm mean your really just as likely to get 3 1's as you are of getting 3 6's.

In most cases I'm fortunate enough to have 1 or 2 17-18's vlaues for my key stats (which are almost always Str and Dex). Then the rest get distributed as normal. It's been years since I've ended up with a stat roll under 12.(Roll, not final score, I've had a few chars with -4 or -6 to a stat)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xParadox 10-14-06, 02:35 PM	I've read through the players hand book and I couldn't find anything about the point system for asigning abilities. If my DM says he's using a 32 point system what does that mean? and how do I put my stats in?
Drohem 10-14-06, 02:48 PM	It's not in the PHB. It's in DMG (v3.5) p. 169. It's also in D20 Modern p. 15. [Sorry, but this isn't in the SRD so it can't be posted on the boards.]
Bowmore 10-14-06, 07:30 PM	In my opinion, spending points to raise a stat over 16 is a waste. One of the most fun characters I ever made using 32 points had four 14s, a 12, and a 10. Best of all, he was a fighter, so he could qualify for the start of most of the feat trees. He was a lot of fun to play because he was so versatile, but on the downside, he was never really a master at anything. I guess that's how it goes: "Jack of all trades, master of none" And my apologies to anyone who is tired of hearing that. :P
CharlieRock 10-14-06, 07:41 PM	I liked rolling for them. How do you "roll up a new character" without rolling? :(
Bowmore 10-15-06, 02:04 AM	You don't unfortunately... I prefer rolling to the point system myself. Part of the fun of making a new character is rolling your stats randomly and picking where they go. Alternatively, if you haven't picked a class, rolling them in order. :dancin:
Lina_Inverse 10-15-06, 04:25 AM	In my opinion, spending points to raise a stat over 16 is a waste. One of the most fun characters I ever made using 32 points had four 14s, a 12, and a 10. Best of all, he was a fighter, so he could qualify for the start of most of the feat trees. He was a lot of fun to play because he was so versatile, but on the downside, he was never really a master at anything. I guess that's how it goes: "Jack of all trades, master of none" And my apologies to anyone who is tired of hearing that. :P If your a spellcaster with less than an 18 in your key attribute something is WRONG. Ill agree with that for most non-casters though.
Azezel 10-15-06, 04:34 AM	If your a spellcaster with less than an 18 in your key attribute something is WRONG. Good lord man - the OP is a new player (I think - if not, my appologies), what for you have to go fill his/her head with your powergaming claptrap? OP - whilst I preffer to roll, like all good-hearted people, I recognise that point buy is fashionable at the minute. If you are using point buy, 14 or 16 is plenty for any score. Bowmore was right on the money - a few fourteens and twelves are ideal.
Lina_Inverse 10-15-06, 04:48 AM	Good lord man - the OP is a new player (I think - if not, my appologies), what for you have to go fill his/her head with your powergaming claptrap? Its called being a good player. You can either be effciant, ignorant of what is effciant(ie a newbie) or you can be intentionally ineffciant. Are you argueing i walk on my hands? OP - whilst I preffer to roll, like all good-hearted people, I recognise that point buy is fashionable at the minute. If you are using point buy, 14 or 16 is plenty for any score. Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion.
Azezel 10-15-06, 05:21 AM	Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion. Can I put that in my sig?
Lina_Inverse 10-15-06, 05:56 AM	Can I put that in my sig? You dont even need ask.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-15-06, 06:02 AM	You know what's fun? Roll up stats using whatever method you like, then look at the point buy table and figure out how many points you would need to buy those scores. Longest running character I ever had was worth 54 points. 4d6 drop, reroll 1s. God, I love rerolling 1s.
Escef 10-15-06, 10:01 AM	Its called being a good player. You can either be effciant, ignorant of what is effciant(ie a newbie) or you can be intentionally ineffciant. There is a difference between efficiency and powergaming. A caster does not need an 18 in their casting stat. A caster who focuses on buffing or healing does not need a high casting stat. Therefore you don't put a high stat there, that is efficiency. In fact, it is often more efficient to buff others than it is to attack directly. (This is for low to mid levels, at high level the story changes somewhat.) An example of how you DON"T need a high stat: A 6th level human wizard with sudden maximize, sudden empower, and improved spell focus, Int 14. He's an enforcer, a mercanary mage. He's looking for the PC's. His familiar finds them. He prepares by dropping a couple buff spells (perhaps from scrolls); mage armor, sheild, fox's cunning, etc. He engages the PCs. Sudden maximized, sudden empowered fireball, save DC 19 (buffed int 18 +4, spell focus/improved +2 total, spell level 3), damage 36 + (6d6)/2 (average 46.5). If the wizard engaged at long range whoever he doesn't kill with that fireball he can finish off with ranged spells. The rogue has a 50/50 chance of surviving, the cleric is most likely dead or severly wounded, the party wizard is most likely dead (even if he makes his save), and the fighter badly wounded. If the cleric is still up, he's the next target, then the fighter. If an npc can do this with a 14 Int than there is absolutely NO reason to believe that a PC caster needs an 18 in his primary stat to be efficient.
CharlieRock 10-15-06, 10:06 AM	Its called being a good player. You can either be effciant, ignorant of what is effciant(ie a newbie) or you can be intentionally ineffciant. Are you argueing i walk on my hands? Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion. You don't necessarily have to start with 18. Long before you need those eight points over ten you will recieve (at least) 2 ability upgrades. Starting with 16 is doable ,especially if you put those increases with levelling into your prime requesite. btw ... :rofl:
Bowmore 10-15-06, 01:13 PM	Don't forget racial adjustments! There have been many times I've left an elf character's dexterity at 14 (raising it to 16 with racial adjustments) so I can put more points elsewhere. Also, have any of you thought of rolling stats, comparing the totals to the table in the DMG, then 'compensating' with extra skill points or a feat or whatever if not enough points have been spent, in a manner of speaking? This would only apply, I think, if the character's total was significantly below the agreed upon 'power level' of the game (like 32).
Mordrid Soud 10-15-06, 01:53 PM	There is no right or wrong way to build a character (unless you are trolling). I have been playing/running D&D since AD&D and I can tell you I prefere the point buy. I can tell you why I like it better than rolling (everyone's a bit more balanced at creation, you have to choose which stat is the most important to you-though with the 28 points I use you still have decent stats in the other abillities- so having a character with a score of a 16 or 18 is actually impressive and means something, but this is just an opinion), but for me to say that one way is better than another would a bit arogant on my part.
Alon D'ar 10-16-06, 03:36 PM	I've donw point buy before although I did it on a 28 point system. Kinda low but it worked out in the end and that was also because I had the misfortune with playing with peopel who are as dumb as dirt. Somene was a barbarian with an int of 16 and treated his barbarian like he had to be incredibly stupid. He also complained that his int was his lowest score and his character was stupid. 16 is low if your a dragon or something.
PineBark 10-16-06, 03:55 PM	Rolling is the one true way damnit. Pointbuy is in the dmg for a damn good reason, its for quick creation of npcs. People blew it way out of proportion. I disgree :P. Some of the ways of rolling your stats are in the dmg too alongside the point-buy system. Besides if you'd want to generate an npc really quick you could just grab any stats that fits it, the point-buy system would waste you time. Anyway, point-buy ftw! After I've started using it I never looked back at rolling stats.
LCD2YOU 10-16-06, 05:41 PM	No, one only needs an 18 Intellignece to cast 8th level spells. A true spellcaster, Druids, Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, etc., should start with a 15 in their main stat. That is so by the time they are 16th level, their 4th stat increase goes into that primary ability allowing them to cast 9th level spells, just in time. If a Wizard starts with a 14 in Int but puts every stat increase into Intelligence, they won't be able to cast any 9th level spell until they reach 20th level.
WinterPsionic 10-16-06, 07:10 PM	So that's what it means :rolleyes: I actually never knew and for the most part I think it's rather stupid. The last 3 character's I've rolled up were in excess of a 70 point buy. Get yourself a pair of lucky dice, a DM that let's you reroll 1's and your set. I'm mean your really just as likely to get 3 1's as you are of getting 3 6's. In most cases I'm fortunate enough to have 1 or 2 17-18's vlaues for my key stats (which are almost always Str and Dex). Then the rest get distributed as normal. It's been years since I've ended up with a stat roll under 12.(Roll, not final score, I've had a few chars with -4 or -6 to a stat)