Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fenrir_Greyback 01-12-08, 08:44 PM	*Ahem* I have a quick, stupid question. how in the world do you get a 32 ability score at level 15? especially a score like charisma or intelligence?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 01-12-08, 08:52 PM	Base 18+2 Racial+3 stat+3 age category+6 enhancement+5 inherent. That's 37. It's kind of out of whack with WLB though. Assuming you don't slap around an Efreeti of course.
Totentanz 01-12-08, 08:53 PM	Hmm....starting of 18 +2 racial +2 paragon +3 levels +6 enhancement =31. Guess a stat book of +1 would do it, as would a race with a +4 or greater mod.
Fenrir_Greyback 01-12-08, 08:56 PM	It's really eerie to me how easily you guys can answer questions like that. How long did it take you to learn all the DnD stuff that's stuck up in your minds?
Totentanz 01-12-08, 08:58 PM	I like playing spellcasters, so ability score improvements are important. I've been playing 3.0/3.5 for about 4 years now.
celestialkin 01-12-08, 09:02 PM	One word: Powergamer
Awesome_Dude 01-12-08, 10:22 PM	One word: Powergamer One word: Butt. /juvenile humor
BrianMc223 01-12-08, 10:34 PM	The Dread Necro that made you ask was probably 18 base +3 level +2 race +3 book +6 item. Or a +2 level +4 book if they were less cost conscious. I don't see how you wouldn't have this as a caster. (Unless it was a tight point buy)
Novacat 01-12-08, 11:53 PM	Bear in mind that some races have extraordinary modifications to ability scores. The Succubus, for instance, has a +16 to CHA racially. That means that without class levels, and an unmodified score of 10, a Succubus has a 26 CHA. Add a high roll, increases from level, and a Cloak of CHA, and it really can get silly. Base 18 + 16 racial + 6 enhancement = 32, and you can see that it can get much higher. And to celestialkin, don't automatically assume that just because people know how to do this, they do on a regular basis. Thought experiments may result in characters like Pun-Pun, but that doesn't mean the creators intend to ever use such methods in a game.
Jaxgaret 01-13-08, 12:32 AM	It's really eerie to me how easily you guys can answer questions like that. It's really eerie to me that you ask a question of the board at large and then turn around and attack the people who answer your question promptly and without rancor. EDIT: Unless I'm way off base and you meant it as a compliment. If so, I apologize and retract. How long did it take you to learn all the DnD stuff that's stuck up in your minds? The first time I ever played D&D was about 16 years ago. So, 16 years.
RedWizard 01-13-08, 12:44 AM	It's really eerie to me that you ask a question of the board at large and then turn around and attack the people who answer your question promptly and without rancor. Uh, I dont think he meant that as an attack...
Awesome_Dude 01-13-08, 12:46 AM	Uh, I dont think he meant that as an attack... Me neither. More an expression of awe.
Jaxgaret 01-13-08, 12:48 AM	Uh, I dont think he meant that as an attack... Me neither. More an expression of awe. Hmm. You're absolutely right. I edited my post to wit. It seemed to me that their use of the phrase "stuck up" was a derogatory reference, insinuating that their use of time in regards to learning the ins and outs of D&D was wasteful effort. But I may be wrong :)
runestar 01-13-08, 01:18 AM	I think his statement simply meant to express his amazement at our supposed proficiency with the game, such that we are able to answer such questions as though they were second nature to us. Stuff like "highest stat possible" should take some time to figure out, not uttered off in a heartbeat like it meant nothing.:)
celestialkin 01-13-08, 01:45 AM	I think his statement simply meant to express his amazement at our supposed proficiency with the game, such that we are able to answer such questions as though they were second nature to us. Stuff like "highest stat possible" should take some time to figure out, not uttered off in a heartbeat like it meant nothing.:) I agree. I had the same feeling when I first started surfing these forums. Felt like I could ask about the most remote, trivial reference in the most obscure book WotC (or even 3rd parties) has ever published, and I would probably get a full-page responsive within minutes. Needless to say, I have been proven right on many occasions. I take my hat off to you gentlemen (and gentlewomen). :tiphat:
Silverthumb 01-13-08, 01:59 AM	Magic-Blooded Aasimar Ghost. I forget how far that gets you, though. Easily pretty well into the 20's, but an ECL of 6... with no HD...
Sinfire Titan 01-13-08, 02:36 AM	It's really eerie to me how easily you guys can answer questions like that. How long did it take you to learn all the DnD stuff that's stuck up in your minds? Take a trip to the CO boards. You will never be the same player again.
Tyler Do'Urden 01-13-08, 10:45 AM	How long did it take you to learn all the DnD stuff that's stuck up in your minds? Year. Maybe two. First learn the things that are relevant to your interest to form a base, then learn new things by creating connections to your base.
UndeadMouse 01-13-08, 12:09 PM	It's really eerie to me how easily you guys can answer questions like that. How long did it take you to learn all the DnD stuff that's stuck up in your minds? About 5 months. 32 at 15. A way most DMs allow: 18+2 racial+ 3 stat book+ 3 levels + 6 enhancement = 32 A way mosts DMs won't allow: 18+14 racial
Fenrir_Greyback 01-13-08, 04:02 PM	It's really eerie to me that you ask a question of the board at large and then turn around and attack the people who answer your question promptly and without rancor. EDIT: Unless I'm way off base and you meant it as a compliment. If so, I apologize and retract. The first time I ever played D&D was about 16 years ago. So, 16 years. I apologize for not being clear with this, I meant it in awe really. I wish I could do that myself. For most of the questions on these boards, I'd have to consult the books.
eamon 01-13-08, 04:33 PM	I kinda like powergaming. Not always, and not in a long-running campaign when it throws things out of whack, but the group I game with runs a D&D-weekend once or twice a year, and we always do a few one-shots in which almost anything goes. It's fun to see the crazy things people come up with, and then do a mini-quest together ;-) - and it's a great way to learn about a thousand and one optimization tricks, too. A little less ECL is the pixie, which still has +6 Cha and Int (and other rather powerful abilities). Pixies are great for one-shot's :-D.
Jaxgaret 01-13-08, 06:47 PM	I apologize for not being clear with this, I meant it in awe really. I wish I could do that myself. For most of the questions on these boards, I'd have to consult the books. Okay, cool. Like I said, I apologize and retract my earlier comment :) I kinda like powergaming. Not always, and not in a long-running campaign when it throws things out of whack, but the group I game with runs a D&D-weekend once or twice a year, and we always do a few one-shots in which almost anything goes. It's fun to see the crazy things people come up with, and then do a mini-quest together ;-) - and it's a great way to learn about a thousand and one optimization tricks, too. That's IMO the ideal for playing the game - balanced characters for ongoing campaigns and interesting, experimental builds for one-shots.
LordTarmos 01-13-08, 11:00 PM	One word: Powergamer One board : character optimization, 3 days watching what some of those guys do and you realize 32 in one ability is nothing, especially by level 15.
Xart 01-14-08, 02:52 AM	Well first off if he took the feat legendary which allows you to raise stat points every 3 levels in stead of 4 he could have a good 5 cha from that. 18+5(level)+4(race)+6(item) that right there is 33. and there is much more you could do to get more to your cha:P
Jaxgaret 01-14-08, 02:57 AM	Well first off if he took the feat legendary which allows you to raise stat points every 3 levels in stead of 4 he could have a good 5 cha from that. I just googled Legendary+Feat+D&D, the only thing i could find was a group of feats named Legendary Feats from a book called A Game Of Thrones d20 RPG. Where is this "legendary" feat from?
Totentanz 01-14-08, 03:10 AM	One word: Powergamer Is that meant to be derogatory? What would make me a non-powergamer? Having my Wizard not increase his ability to cast spells, his chosen vocation? That's a bit like saying a NFL Football player wouldn't spend time in the gym, or that a sniper wouldn't practice at a shooting range. I get so tired of the casual application of epithets to people on these boards for actually paying attention to the mechanics of the game. I don't think getting a 32 spellcasting stat is power-gaming. I suppose in some groups it would be, but really you can pull that off with Core rules and not straining that hard either. My example involved losing a caster level, certainly not what most powergamers would do. The real problem is if you take the concept of "powergaming" to its logical extension then choosing certain classes and races would land you with the title. Sad, but true. @ Jax: Legendary is a feat from AEG's book of Feats. It gives you a stat boost every 3 levels instead of 4, along with the standard take at first level clause. My group banned that book after one game. They don't play test those things at all. I don't have a problem with powerful characters, but when there are multiple feats that can break the D20 system solidly on their own, something is wrong.
metalmayhem80110 01-14-08, 04:17 AM	Lets not get into the power gamer arguement here.... And if I had a specific stat I could *almost* guarentee it into the 40s (As long as it isn't wisdom or int, eeew) :P
SpoonNinja 01-15-08, 01:28 PM	My ecl 11 Weretiger has a STR of 34. 16 regular + 12 weretiger + 6 belt of giant strength. Though, I wasn't sure what classes to take, and so far I have One Barb, one fighter, one Dragon Shaman. :P
metalmayhem80110 01-15-08, 02:00 PM	My ecl 11 Weretiger has a STR of 34. 16 regular + 12 weretiger + 6 belt of giant strength. Though, I wasn't sure what classes to take, and so far I have One Barb, one fighter, one Dragon Shaman. :P Lol you should totally go into Frenzied Berserker. That would put your strength at a 40 when you're angry :P
Silverthumb 01-15-08, 05:47 PM	I just googled Legendary+Feat+D&D, the only thing i could find was a group of feats named Legendary Feats from a book called A Game Of Thrones d20 RPG. Where is this "legendary" feat from? Its most likely a 3rd party feat. That sounds like a bit much.
Optimator 01-15-08, 07:18 PM	I just googled Legendary+Feat+D&D, the only thing i could find was a group of feats named Legendary Feats from a book called A Game Of Thrones d20 RPG. Where is this "legendary" feat from? Yeah, it's 3rd party. My DM has a book of Sword and Sorcery (I think) feats and it is in there.
aelryinth 01-15-08, 07:24 PM	Bear in mind that some races have extraordinary modifications to ability scores. The Succubus, for instance, has a +16 to CHA racially. That means that without class levels, and an unmodified score of 10, a Succubus has a 26 CHA. Add a high roll, increases from level, and a Cloak of CHA, and it really can get silly. Base 18 + 16 racial + 6 enhancement = 32, and you can see that it can get much higher. And to celestialkin, don't automatically assume that just because people know how to do this, they do on a regular basis. Thought experiments may result in characters like Pun-Pun, but that doesn't mean the creators intend to ever use such methods in a game. Given the really, really bad math used above, I hope the original OP isn't too impressed with all of us. ;) ===Aelryinth
runestar 01-16-08, 06:52 AM	As a general rule of thumb, 32 is the average you should be getting in your primary stat at lv20 (base16, +5 lv-up, +5 inherent via tomes or wishes, +6 enhancement). Can't really see how that can be considered powergaming...:confused:
Jaxgaret 01-16-08, 04:33 PM	Its most likely a 3rd party feat. That sounds like a bit much. It's actually not that great, if you crunch the numbers. Pre-Epic, you get +1 to a single stat from level 9 on and all the intervening stats boosts a bit sooner. It can be very good, but it's not anything crazy.
SpoonNinja 01-18-08, 02:37 PM	Lol you should totally go into Frenzied Berserker. That would put your strength at a 40 when you're angry :P Doesn't Rage stack with the Berserker rage?
sblaxman 01-19-08, 01:18 AM	What games to you play where stat-tombs are tossed around like candy? Those are a once per character bonus at best
runestar 01-19-08, 09:21 AM	What games to you play where stat-tombs are tossed around like candy? Those are a once per character bonus at best Yes...1 per character...A PC will typically obtain 1 for use on his most important stat. Wizards/sorcs can also cast wish to get inherent bonuses, and contrary to popular belief about xp loss being bad, I find it is quite well worth it to stay a lv behind constantly.:)
sblaxman 01-19-08, 01:03 PM	Ok, the way people talk on these boards, they seem to expect to get them all time time for multiple bonues.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 01-19-08, 01:50 PM	Ok, the way people talk on these boards, they seem to expect to get them all time time for multiple bonues. You can always slap around an efreeti.
sblaxman 01-19-08, 04:49 PM	I guess they also beefed up wish from 2E as well (used to max out at 18 for stat boosts, needed 10 wishes per point above 18
Jaxgaret 01-19-08, 04:55 PM	I guess they also beefed up wish from 2E as well (used to max out at 18 for stat boosts, needed 10 wishes per point above 18 Check out d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/). It has all of the updated 3.5 rules, for free.
sblaxman 01-19-08, 09:01 PM	Yeah, it's mostly the same, except for the difference in ability score effect (gave it a +5 max vs the cap at 18)
aelryinth 01-20-08, 02:46 PM	One of the reasons being that 1E had an absolute cap of 25, and 3E has an unlimited cap. Basically, if you could hit 19 in any ability score in AD&D, you were on grokking easy street. Mages could learn an unlimited amount of spells and started being immune to illusions, clerics got immunity to will spells and more bonus spells, the dmg numbers for fighters started to sing, and high Con meant you actually regenerated over time. None of that stuff in 3E, it's all Epic stuff, not just derived from stats. Of course, one of the most unfair items in AD&D was the Girdle of Giant Strength. Bing! 19-24 Str, with all attendent bonuses. They even had a module with a Fighter 'PC' in it with a base 15 str...but wearing a Girdle of Hill Giant Str for an effective 19 and +3/+7. ===Aelryinth
gixanthrax 01-20-08, 07:41 PM	well, the most amazing ability boosts can made concerning strength. play a feral halfogre ( LA +3) grants some +10 to strength, 5 levels of whatever meleeclass you like and than add 7 levels of warhulk nets for for 18+10+14+3 =41 without any items... i mean this is only the beginning, give there are builds who net in therer 70s for strength at lvl 20...
aelryinth 01-21-08, 02:54 PM	Once you start stacking races, templates, PrC's, size mods and enhancements from spells, it can indeed get very sick, very fast. It's why there were basically next to no ability score buffing toys in AD@D. Keeping stats in the human range made it easier to control things. Of course, this was back when monsters didn't get str mods, either, so, eh. ==Aelryinth