ability score question [Archive] - Wizards Community

ability score question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chronocrosselite
10-04-05, 07:39 PM lets say i want an ugly character with good social skills. i have a 16-17 CHA, can I do that? and physically hes ugly? and if i have a low CHA can i say my character is beautiful but is poor with conversation and leadership?
AlphaMagic
10-04-05, 07:43 PM My opinion is No, Good looks calms most people and doesnt really upset them making then easier to talk to and same thing vice versa.
chronocrosselite
10-04-05, 08:17 PM but how does calmness matter when it comes to leadership? i dont know about you but there have been some ugly leaders.
Card_Wizard
10-04-05, 08:27 PM The age old I wanna be ugly yet have high charisma thing...

Well, to put it simply, the best way to do it is to simply have charisma have no effect on physical appearence. Of course, this can lead to some rather shall we say, interesting characters. However, I have a halfassed and throughly untested idea to fix that.

All PCs start out as average in appearence. Each day they spend at leastsome time attempting to remain clean (washing up in the morning, taking a dive in a pond after a bloody and sweaty fight etc.) they retain this appearence. Each day they spend a significant portion of time (no more then an hour I recommend) specifically primping themselves or otherwise making themselves look good (grooming, scented baths, professional makeovers or whatever.) they improve in one category of appearence. If they spend a day doing nether in a normally dirty environment (AKA most adventure locals) their appearence drops one category. The number of categories is completly up to the DM, but I recommend 7, 3 for beautiful, 3 for ugly, and 1 being average. Here's mine as an example

Hot Tamale(for the ladies)/Stud Muffin(for the gents)
Perfect Appearence
Well Groomed
Average
Dirty
Homely
Walloped with an ugly tree. Repeadiatly.

Anyone feel free to test this little half system out and gimme the details, I'm itching to know if it works. :D
Seeker95
10-04-05, 09:36 PM Charisma is a stat. It is whatever you rolled, bought, earned, or made up.
Your looks is a decription. It is whatever you want it to be.

If you link the too through flavor, great.
If the two have nothing to do with each other, great.

The answer to I want an ugly PC with good social skills. Can I do that? is YES.
Zherog
10-04-05, 09:57 PM Not too surprisingly, I agree with Seeker. Go for it - have fun.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-04-05, 10:51 PM Think Mel Brooks. He's not much too look at but he's just so damn interesting.
Trixten_The_Kender
10-05-05, 01:21 AM Charisma is more than looks, it's your personality and how you treat people. Ever see that person in high school, the one everyone likes but only considers "just a friend" because they could never make the cover of People? Think of it this way, if it was only looks, then how does a blind begger NPC respond to you? If you help him out and buy him a meal or sit and talk to him as a person, does it matter that you look like a troll? The way the game is designed is so that Charisma is not just a physical attribute, but more a personal one. (that's why Diplomacy is a Cha based skill, it's how you talk to people) How many "hunks" are really obnoxious and rude, thereby disliked by other people? :yuck:
Asciiman
10-05-05, 01:28 AM A good example of this is with a villian.

Darth Vader would scare the life out of just about anyone, but his charisma score would be through the roof. Not because he is good looking but because he would be such a dominating presence. You don't have to be good looking ot have high charisma.
CzarGarrett
10-05-05, 09:06 AM Hitler--> Ugly, but persuasive.

FDR--> crippled, but well spoken.

Bill Clinton--> Kinda flabby, but quick witted.

Just a few real life examples of charismatic people with physical flaws.
jukar
10-05-05, 09:22 AM Charisma is not appearance, it is a sum of many things- such as force of personality, character, inner beauty and personal magnetism, propensity towards social interaction, and FINALLY appearance. A high Charisma score can mean that someone has all these things, but it can also mean that they are particularly gifted in only a select few of these attributes.

After all, Mind Flayers have great Charisma, but I really doubt anyone is daydreaming of Shuluth in a backless evening gown.

Secondly, how many big Hollywood personalities are there that have exceptional stage presence and can create flawless characters when they are performing, but are about as sociable as a wart hog? Think of Joan Crawford. The woman was a prolific actress, but her ability to deal with people was somewhat ... limited.
Joe Khol
10-05-05, 10:13 AM lets say i want an ugly character with good social skills. i have a 16-17 CHA, can I do that? and physically hes ugly? and if i have a low CHA can i say my character is beautiful but is poor with conversation and leadership?

I'd say both those examples should be represented by an average CHA score. The ability score represents the overall effect so ugly but good social skills or beautiful but poor socials skills would both average out.

Of course, 'social skills' are also represented by actual skills - Diplomacy, Bluff and the like. 'Natural' charisma can be represented by the ability score while social skills by skill ranks.

I guess it's all down to how and for what purpose you are building this particular character.
Jagyr Ebonwood
10-05-05, 02:33 PM After all, Mind Flayers have great Charisma, but I really doubt anyone is daydreaming of Shuluth in a backless evening gown.

:drool: Hubba hubba hubba...
Ahem...I'll be in my bunk...
chronocrosselite
10-06-05, 05:14 PM what if i was playing a race that was suppose to be genetically dumb, like say a gully dwarf in dragonlance. their racial max Int is 14...what if i had that 14, thats smarter than the average human, and really thats pretty smart anyways.

they are suppose to be dumb regardless. how would i do that?
jukar
10-06-05, 05:27 PM what if i was playing a race that was suppose to be genetically dumb, like say a gully dwarf in dragonlance. their racial max Int is 14...what if i had that 14, thats smarter than the average human, and really thats pretty smart anyways.

they are suppose to be dumb regardless. how would i do that?

Well, by the standards of their race, they'd be a veritable genius. However, in comparison to other races, they would be a big fish in a small pond, at best.
Seeker95
10-06-05, 06:20 PM what if i was playing a race that was suppose to be genetically dumb, [...] they are suppose to be dumb regardless. how would i do that?1. Racial "max" does not change the mechanics of the value at that max. A 14 Intelligence is still a 14 Intelligence, even in a gully dwarf.

2. Until your Intelligence is below 8-9, there's nothing "dumb" about it.

3. Play your intelligence *and* your character concept. Just because gully dwarves have a racial penalty to Intelligence does not mean your character has to pretend it has a score lower than what's written on your paper.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chronocrosselite 10-04-05, 07:39 PM	lets say i want an ugly character with good social skills. i have a 16-17 CHA, can I do that? and physically hes ugly? and if i have a low CHA can i say my character is beautiful but is poor with conversation and leadership?
AlphaMagic 10-04-05, 07:43 PM	My opinion is No, Good looks calms most people and doesnt really upset them making then easier to talk to and same thing vice versa.
chronocrosselite 10-04-05, 08:17 PM	but how does calmness matter when it comes to leadership? i dont know about you but there have been some ugly leaders.
Card_Wizard 10-04-05, 08:27 PM	The age old I wanna be ugly yet have high charisma thing... Well, to put it simply, the best way to do it is to simply have charisma have no effect on physical appearence. Of course, this can lead to some rather shall we say, interesting characters. However, I have a halfassed and throughly untested idea to fix that. All PCs start out as average in appearence. Each day they spend at leastsome time attempting to remain clean (washing up in the morning, taking a dive in a pond after a bloody and sweaty fight etc.) they retain this appearence. Each day they spend a significant portion of time (no more then an hour I recommend) specifically primping themselves or otherwise making themselves look good (grooming, scented baths, professional makeovers or whatever.) they improve in one category of appearence. If they spend a day doing nether in a normally dirty environment (AKA most adventure locals) their appearence drops one category. The number of categories is completly up to the DM, but I recommend 7, 3 for beautiful, 3 for ugly, and 1 being average. Here's mine as an example Hot Tamale(for the ladies)/Stud Muffin(for the gents) Perfect Appearence Well Groomed Average Dirty Homely Walloped with an ugly tree. Repeadiatly. Anyone feel free to test this little half system out and gimme the details, I'm itching to know if it works. :D
Seeker95 10-04-05, 09:36 PM	Charisma is a stat. It is whatever you rolled, bought, earned, or made up. Your looks is a decription. It is whatever you want it to be. If you link the too through flavor, great. If the two have nothing to do with each other, great. The answer to I want an ugly PC with good social skills. Can I do that? is YES.
Zherog 10-04-05, 09:57 PM	Not too surprisingly, I agree with Seeker. Go for it - have fun.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-04-05, 10:51 PM	Think Mel Brooks. He's not much too look at but he's just so damn interesting.
Trixten_The_Kender 10-05-05, 01:21 AM	Charisma is more than looks, it's your personality and how you treat people. Ever see that person in high school, the one everyone likes but only considers "just a friend" because they could never make the cover of People? Think of it this way, if it was only looks, then how does a blind begger NPC respond to you? If you help him out and buy him a meal or sit and talk to him as a person, does it matter that you look like a troll? The way the game is designed is so that Charisma is not just a physical attribute, but more a personal one. (that's why Diplomacy is a Cha based skill, it's how you talk to people) How many "hunks" are really obnoxious and rude, thereby disliked by other people? :yuck:
Asciiman 10-05-05, 01:28 AM	A good example of this is with a villian. Darth Vader would scare the life out of just about anyone, but his charisma score would be through the roof. Not because he is good looking but because he would be such a dominating presence. You don't have to be good looking ot have high charisma.
CzarGarrett 10-05-05, 09:06 AM	Hitler--> Ugly, but persuasive. FDR--> crippled, but well spoken. Bill Clinton--> Kinda flabby, but quick witted. Just a few real life examples of charismatic people with physical flaws.
jukar 10-05-05, 09:22 AM	Charisma is not appearance, it is a sum of many things- such as force of personality, character, inner beauty and personal magnetism, propensity towards social interaction, and FINALLY appearance. A high Charisma score can mean that someone has all these things, but it can also mean that they are particularly gifted in only a select few of these attributes. After all, Mind Flayers have great Charisma, but I really doubt anyone is daydreaming of Shuluth in a backless evening gown. Secondly, how many big Hollywood personalities are there that have exceptional stage presence and can create flawless characters when they are performing, but are about as sociable as a wart hog? Think of Joan Crawford. The woman was a prolific actress, but her ability to deal with people was somewhat ... limited.
Joe Khol 10-05-05, 10:13 AM	lets say i want an ugly character with good social skills. i have a 16-17 CHA, can I do that? and physically hes ugly? and if i have a low CHA can i say my character is beautiful but is poor with conversation and leadership? I'd say both those examples should be represented by an average CHA score. The ability score represents the overall effect so ugly but good social skills or beautiful but poor socials skills would both average out. Of course, 'social skills' are also represented by actual skills - Diplomacy, Bluff and the like. 'Natural' charisma can be represented by the ability score while social skills by skill ranks. I guess it's all down to how and for what purpose you are building this particular character.
Jagyr Ebonwood 10-05-05, 02:33 PM	After all, Mind Flayers have great Charisma, but I really doubt anyone is daydreaming of Shuluth in a backless evening gown. :drool: Hubba hubba hubba... Ahem...I'll be in my bunk...
chronocrosselite 10-06-05, 05:14 PM	what if i was playing a race that was suppose to be genetically dumb, like say a gully dwarf in dragonlance. their racial max Int is 14...what if i had that 14, thats smarter than the average human, and really thats pretty smart anyways. they are suppose to be dumb regardless. how would i do that?
jukar 10-06-05, 05:27 PM	what if i was playing a race that was suppose to be genetically dumb, like say a gully dwarf in dragonlance. their racial max Int is 14...what if i had that 14, thats smarter than the average human, and really thats pretty smart anyways. they are suppose to be dumb regardless. how would i do that? Well, by the standards of their race, they'd be a veritable genius. However, in comparison to other races, they would be a big fish in a small pond, at best.
Seeker95 10-06-05, 06:20 PM	what if i was playing a race that was suppose to be genetically dumb, [...] they are suppose to be dumb regardless. how would i do that?1. Racial "max" does not change the mechanics of the value at that max. A 14 Intelligence is still a 14 Intelligence, even in a gully dwarf. 2. Until your Intelligence is below 8-9, there's nothing "dumb" about it. 3. Play your intelligence and your character concept. Just because gully dwarves have a racial penalty to Intelligence does not mean your character has to pretend it has a score lower than what's written on your paper.