about liches [Archive] - Wizards Community

about liches [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Karkamal
12-14-06, 09:45 PM i have some questions about liches...

first of all sorry my bad english :(

now the first question is about appareance

A lich is a gaunt and skeletal humanoid with withered flesh stretched tight across horribly visible bones. Its eyes have long ago been lost to decay, but bright pinpoints of crimson light burn on in the empty sockets. how long last the skin muscles and organs of the lich? some years? some days? his skin decays instantly? if i got killed when i return my skin is intact or i havenot skin at all?

second, how are the senses of the lich, in libris mortis, if the undead lost a sensitive organ he lost the sense right?edit: so if i am loosing organs with the time, i'll lose some senses also, right?

thanks to all, and sorry my crappy english
Zicka
12-14-06, 09:49 PM The "Crimson light" are mystical eyes
Karkamal
12-14-06, 09:56 PM yes, but, look the other senses, if i loose my thonge i loose a sense, my question is about the lich gettinng more like a skeleton with the time. a skeleton don't have a thonge right?
KurenaiYami
12-14-06, 10:00 PM yes, but, look the other senses, if i loose my thonge i loose a sense, my question is about the lich gettinng more like a skeleton with the time. a skeleton don't have a thonge right?

They definately keep sight and hearing. Smell, taste, and touch are debateable, but as they can make listen and spot checks normally, those two senses have to stay.

The others are up to your DM.

As for the flesh, it depends on the lich. Where does he hang out?

Is his layer cool and dry? Then his flesh will last longer. Wet flesh rots faster, as does warmer flesh.
Chippy_the_Devourer
12-14-06, 10:02 PM I would think being filled with as much arcane energy as a lich would keep anything preserved.
Karkamal
12-14-06, 10:07 PM mmmm... i'm not sure right now... there is some way to preserve or rebuild the body to look like he have die some minutes ago?

also... if the lich uses polymorph he would recover his lost senses temporaly while polymorphed if he lost any?

i don't think any lich would be happy of loosing 2 or more senses...
Chippy_the_Devourer
12-14-06, 10:30 PM Y'know, you can probably create a table for random lost parts (and the repercussions of said lost parts) if you think it's a problem. As far as I know, WotC never released anything on a lich losing body parts.
Artector
12-14-06, 10:40 PM Magic would keep him from ever falling apart. Skin and muscle could most certainly be lost.

If he polymorphs... I don't see why not.
claypigeons
12-15-06, 12:59 AM It's magic. You stay as complete as you want, barring DM interference for story. Unless your DM rules otherwise (which is common sense, really), nothing in DnD even rots.

...For that matter, nothing states what happens mechanically when you die...so you COULD stand back up and keep swatting the guy that put you down...
MrPiskie
12-15-06, 03:52 AM how long last the skin muscles and organs of the lich? some years? some days? his skin decays instantly? if i got killed when i return my skin is intact or i havenot skin at all?

It's impossible to say. Depending on environmental conditions, there's a huge variation in such things even in real life. Add magic to the equation, and all bets are off. It could be that a lich's flesh sloughs off almost instantly upon becoming undead, or it could be that magics preserve the lich and the process takes millennia, if it happens at all.

second, how are the senses of the lich, in libris mortis, if the undead lost a sensitive organ he lost the sense right?edit: so if i am loosing organs with the time, i'll lose some senses also, right?

I don't know. I've always had problems with this idea. Sure, the red pinpoints work as visual organs, the dulled sense of touch is a neat idea, and liches don't have much of a need for taste (how do they eat?). But a skeletal creature would have no external ear to collect sound, no tympanic membrane, and cochleae whose fluid has long since dried. Therefore, they'd logically be stone deaf, which would be rather disadvantageous for a spellcaster. And I'm completely at a loss as to whether, by those standards, skeletal undead would be able to smell and if so why or why not.

Therefore, for the sake of simplicity, if I were DM, I'd rule that liches can see better than mortals (at least in the dark), have hearing and sense of smell comparable to their mortal counterparts, slightly diminished tactile senses, and no sense of taste (at least once that tongue has fallen off).
Invoker47
12-15-06, 04:21 AM With the loss of the tongue, then comes the question: how does the lich speak once his tongue is gone? Magic, I presume.
UnrelentingHoror
12-15-06, 04:28 AM This certainly brings a wonderful thought to my head. Suppose theres an especially vain liche, he uses gentle repose(or whatever the spell name is) on himself constantly to keep from rotting. Oh sure he still looks like a corpse, but its a recently deceased, verry animate, possibly even sexy corpse (ewww).
Or does gentle repose only work on animation impaired cadavers? ehh, either way I'm sure a variant spell could be invented, especially if your a morally unfettered necromancer whos just dead set on having that lovely looking serving wench over there be just as lovely looking when shes your zombie handservant.:devil:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
12-15-06, 04:37 AM A lich's body decays, but at an extremely slowed rate. There's a special spell used in the ritual for that purpose. It was called Nulathoe's ninemen, and is more or less identical to gentle repose.
MrPiskie
12-15-06, 04:42 AM With the loss of the tongue, then comes the question: how does the lich speak once his tongue is gone? Magic, I presume.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I guess magic fixes everything; you just have to wave your hands in the air....

This certainly brings a wonderful thought to my head. Suppose theres an especially vain liche, he uses gentle repose(or whatever the spell name is) on himself constantly to keep from rotting. Oh sure he still looks like a corpse, but its a recently deceased, verry animate, possibly even sexy corpse (ewww).

It's an interesting idea, although using shapechanging or illusion magics to assume any number of eye-pleasing, apparently mortal forms is probably easier. Plus, the idea of finally being alone with that attractive young noble about town, only to have him/her revealed as a rotting, skeletal thing that immediately sets into a rage at having its illusions of vanity pierced sends a certain shiver down the spine.
Karkamal
12-15-06, 05:31 AM mmmm... however... being discovered don't change anything... beautiful or not, only the "good lich" template can turn off his auras... i will not loose another lvl of caster for only that...
katarl
12-17-06, 03:53 PM My group houseruled that liches with tomb-tainted soul don't actually lose their flesh and eyes, but stay youthful, they just don't need their organs at all. When they bleed, and lose limbs, they're healed by negative energy, and are restored with regenerate as normal. That way, tomb-tainted soul isn't a wasted feat for liches, it has a nice cosmetic benefit, since its nice and flavourful to have.

You see, preserving a corpse only really works when they're not moving, and tearing muscle and flesh doing so. A body is continually regenerating itself, so even if you stop bacteria eating it, the muscles and skin will pull itself apart.
Drawdy
12-20-06, 10:02 PM Szass Tam, a Red Wizar of Thay, is a lich and uses a spell called Preservation (3rd level) he uses every few weeks. It says sometimes he forgets and may start to stink a little. This info is from FR6 "Dreams of the Red Wizards" published in 1988.
DrakoShade
12-20-06, 11:26 PM I would rule that possession of the feat Forge Ring and the spell Gentle Repose can allow for creation of a vain lich's best friend... while it requires ignoring the ripping/tearing of flesh by moving, you could always assume that the lich's magical nature keeps that from happening, so that rot is his only worry. Just wear the ring, and you look like you died only yesterday!

(Heck, double the cost since you're going to be wearing it for a long time, put it on your big toe, and you not only don't have to sacrifice a ring slot, but nobody knows it's even there unless you take your boots off, and what magic-item-creating lich is ever going to be seen barefoot when he can have Boots of Speed or Slippers of Spider-Climb or something, saving him a spell slot for something else?)
freeholder
12-20-06, 11:39 PM I say a lich does not decay at all. The negative energy scares of bacteria and other cratures involved in decomposition so a lich will remain looking alive until he is disfigured in some way (which may be repaired)
Araciel
12-21-06, 12:12 AM Szass Tam, a Red Wizar of Thay, is a lich and uses a spell called Preservation (3rd level) he uses every few weeks. It says sometimes he forgets and may start to stink a little. This info is from FR6 "Dreams of the Red Wizards" published in 1988.

looking in the FRCS at the artists rendition, looks like he gave it up a while back...though he still has skin and hair

liches are undead...they have a type of unnatural life, but it is always clear that they are no longer living, unless under a spell or illusion of some kind...within those bounds, i have done pretty much everything from demiliches, whose entire bodies have become dust, to liches who still look human because they make human suits and magically glamer them to look like real people.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karkamal 12-14-06, 09:45 PM	i have some questions about liches... first of all sorry my bad english :( now the first question is about appareance A lich is a gaunt and skeletal humanoid with withered flesh stretched tight across horribly visible bones. Its eyes have long ago been lost to decay, but bright pinpoints of crimson light burn on in the empty sockets. how long last the skin muscles and organs of the lich? some years? some days? his skin decays instantly? if i got killed when i return my skin is intact or i havenot skin at all? second, how are the senses of the lich, in libris mortis, if the undead lost a sensitive organ he lost the sense right?edit: so if i am loosing organs with the time, i'll lose some senses also, right? thanks to all, and sorry my crappy english
Zicka 12-14-06, 09:49 PM	The "Crimson light" are mystical eyes
Karkamal 12-14-06, 09:56 PM	yes, but, look the other senses, if i loose my thonge i loose a sense, my question is about the lich gettinng more like a skeleton with the time. a skeleton don't have a thonge right?
KurenaiYami 12-14-06, 10:00 PM	yes, but, look the other senses, if i loose my thonge i loose a sense, my question is about the lich gettinng more like a skeleton with the time. a skeleton don't have a thonge right? They definately keep sight and hearing. Smell, taste, and touch are debateable, but as they can make listen and spot checks normally, those two senses have to stay. The others are up to your DM. As for the flesh, it depends on the lich. Where does he hang out? Is his layer cool and dry? Then his flesh will last longer. Wet flesh rots faster, as does warmer flesh.
Chippy_the_Devourer 12-14-06, 10:02 PM	I would think being filled with as much arcane energy as a lich would keep anything preserved.
Karkamal 12-14-06, 10:07 PM	mmmm... i'm not sure right now... there is some way to preserve or rebuild the body to look like he have die some minutes ago? also... if the lich uses polymorph he would recover his lost senses temporaly while polymorphed if he lost any? i don't think any lich would be happy of loosing 2 or more senses...
Chippy_the_Devourer 12-14-06, 10:30 PM	Y'know, you can probably create a table for random lost parts (and the repercussions of said lost parts) if you think it's a problem. As far as I know, WotC never released anything on a lich losing body parts.
Artector 12-14-06, 10:40 PM	Magic would keep him from ever falling apart. Skin and muscle could most certainly be lost. If he polymorphs... I don't see why not.
claypigeons 12-15-06, 12:59 AM	It's magic. You stay as complete as you want, barring DM interference for story. Unless your DM rules otherwise (which is common sense, really), nothing in DnD even rots. ...For that matter, nothing states what happens mechanically when you die...so you COULD stand back up and keep swatting the guy that put you down...
MrPiskie 12-15-06, 03:52 AM	how long last the skin muscles and organs of the lich? some years? some days? his skin decays instantly? if i got killed when i return my skin is intact or i havenot skin at all? It's impossible to say. Depending on environmental conditions, there's a huge variation in such things even in real life. Add magic to the equation, and all bets are off. It could be that a lich's flesh sloughs off almost instantly upon becoming undead, or it could be that magics preserve the lich and the process takes millennia, if it happens at all. second, how are the senses of the lich, in libris mortis, if the undead lost a sensitive organ he lost the sense right?edit: so if i am loosing organs with the time, i'll lose some senses also, right? I don't know. I've always had problems with this idea. Sure, the red pinpoints work as visual organs, the dulled sense of touch is a neat idea, and liches don't have much of a need for taste (how do they eat?). But a skeletal creature would have no external ear to collect sound, no tympanic membrane, and cochleae whose fluid has long since dried. Therefore, they'd logically be stone deaf, which would be rather disadvantageous for a spellcaster. And I'm completely at a loss as to whether, by those standards, skeletal undead would be able to smell and if so why or why not. Therefore, for the sake of simplicity, if I were DM, I'd rule that liches can see better than mortals (at least in the dark), have hearing and sense of smell comparable to their mortal counterparts, slightly diminished tactile senses, and no sense of taste (at least once that tongue has fallen off).
Invoker47 12-15-06, 04:21 AM	With the loss of the tongue, then comes the question: how does the lich speak once his tongue is gone? Magic, I presume.
UnrelentingHoror 12-15-06, 04:28 AM	This certainly brings a wonderful thought to my head. Suppose theres an especially vain liche, he uses gentle repose(or whatever the spell name is) on himself constantly to keep from rotting. Oh sure he still looks like a corpse, but its a recently deceased, verry animate, possibly even sexy corpse (ewww). Or does gentle repose only work on animation impaired cadavers? ehh, either way I'm sure a variant spell could be invented, especially if your a morally unfettered necromancer whos just dead set on having that lovely looking serving wench over there be just as lovely looking when shes your zombie handservant.:devil:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 12-15-06, 04:37 AM	A lich's body decays, but at an extremely slowed rate. There's a special spell used in the ritual for that purpose. It was called Nulathoe's ninemen, and is more or less identical to gentle repose.
MrPiskie 12-15-06, 04:42 AM	With the loss of the tongue, then comes the question: how does the lich speak once his tongue is gone? Magic, I presume. Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I guess magic fixes everything; you just have to wave your hands in the air.... This certainly brings a wonderful thought to my head. Suppose theres an especially vain liche, he uses gentle repose(or whatever the spell name is) on himself constantly to keep from rotting. Oh sure he still looks like a corpse, but its a recently deceased, verry animate, possibly even sexy corpse (ewww). It's an interesting idea, although using shapechanging or illusion magics to assume any number of eye-pleasing, apparently mortal forms is probably easier. Plus, the idea of finally being alone with that attractive young noble about town, only to have him/her revealed as a rotting, skeletal thing that immediately sets into a rage at having its illusions of vanity pierced sends a certain shiver down the spine.
Karkamal 12-15-06, 05:31 AM	mmmm... however... being discovered don't change anything... beautiful or not, only the "good lich" template can turn off his auras... i will not loose another lvl of caster for only that...
katarl 12-17-06, 03:53 PM	My group houseruled that liches with tomb-tainted soul don't actually lose their flesh and eyes, but stay youthful, they just don't need their organs at all. When they bleed, and lose limbs, they're healed by negative energy, and are restored with regenerate as normal. That way, tomb-tainted soul isn't a wasted feat for liches, it has a nice cosmetic benefit, since its nice and flavourful to have. You see, preserving a corpse only really works when they're not moving, and tearing muscle and flesh doing so. A body is continually regenerating itself, so even if you stop bacteria eating it, the muscles and skin will pull itself apart.
Drawdy 12-20-06, 10:02 PM	Szass Tam, a Red Wizar of Thay, is a lich and uses a spell called Preservation (3rd level) he uses every few weeks. It says sometimes he forgets and may start to stink a little. This info is from FR6 "Dreams of the Red Wizards" published in 1988.
DrakoShade 12-20-06, 11:26 PM	I would rule that possession of the feat Forge Ring and the spell Gentle Repose can allow for creation of a vain lich's best friend... while it requires ignoring the ripping/tearing of flesh by moving, you could always assume that the lich's magical nature keeps that from happening, so that rot is his only worry. Just wear the ring, and you look like you died only yesterday! (Heck, double the cost since you're going to be wearing it for a long time, put it on your big toe, and you not only don't have to sacrifice a ring slot, but nobody knows it's even there unless you take your boots off, and what magic-item-creating lich is ever going to be seen barefoot when he can have Boots of Speed or Slippers of Spider-Climb or something, saving him a spell slot for something else?)
freeholder 12-20-06, 11:39 PM	I say a lich does not decay at all. The negative energy scares of bacteria and other cratures involved in decomposition so a lich will remain looking alive until he is disfigured in some way (which may be repaired)
Araciel 12-21-06, 12:12 AM	Szass Tam, a Red Wizar of Thay, is a lich and uses a spell called Preservation (3rd level) he uses every few weeks. It says sometimes he forgets and may start to stink a little. This info is from FR6 "Dreams of the Red Wizards" published in 1988. looking in the FRCS at the artists rendition, looks like he gave it up a while back...though he still has skin and hair liches are undead...they have a type of unnatural life, but it is always clear that they are no longer living, unless under a spell or illusion of some kind...within those bounds, i have done pretty much everything from demiliches, whose entire bodies have become dust, to liches who still look human because they make human suits and magically glamer them to look like real people.