Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Super Guy 06-20-05, 11:05 PM	Players, tired of capturing a slippery rogue who escapes from your Use Rope check with his high Escape Artist? Want to put an end to the constant threat of his escape? Easy! Just make sure you can strap a Tower Shield to his arm and suit him up with Splint Mail. If you want to be extra cruel, don that Splint Mail hastily! Enjoy your -18 Armor Check penalty :) DMs can do the exact same things with party members! Great fun for everyone.
Zodan 06-20-05, 11:13 PM	This is an awesomely wicked concept. Now my question is, how would the DMs here rule on this? I like this a lot, problem is I don't think my players are clever enough to think of this, but I may spring it on them.
sorvikcorsair 06-20-05, 11:24 PM	If the players can keep a hold of the rogue long enough to put anything on him, I would rule in their favor. Recently I just had a rogue player try to throw the halfling cleric off the boat (cause she wanted a way down) She panicked (fall would of nearly killed her) and cast Power Word Stun as he grabbed her. I completely LET this pass. Any rogue who gets caught deserves it.
the Horc 06-21-05, 12:15 AM	Actually, I remember there was this armor enhancement that allowed you to instantly don any armor with a command word. If that could be modified to something that can be applied externally...
Inigo Carmine 06-21-05, 10:13 AM	Actually, it makes sense, it's just an indirect way of doing it. It's kind of like tying someone up vs tying them up in a chair. In the tying them up in a chair case, I'd add a circumstance bonus to the use rope check, but in the end it's the same thing as adding an armor check penalty; it increases the number thats gotta come up on the D20 for a successful escape artist check.
Phaseroth 06-21-05, 10:57 AM	Actually, I remember there was this armor enhancement that allowed you to instantly don any armor with a command word. You must be thinking of Called armor. Defenders of the Faith, A Guidebook for Clerics and Paladins, pg. 23.
J Milburn 06-21-05, 11:25 AM	This is nice thinking... Although i have never played or known of a character who actually put ranks in use rope. My group decided it was the worst skill, closely followed by the fact disable device and open lock are different skills. Externally applied called armour is a nice idea... very clericy aswell- helping everyone else just because you cant do anything without them.
Arrowhen 06-21-05, 12:21 PM	Although i have never played or known of a character who actually put ranks in use rope. My group decided it was the worst skill... PCs: We set up camp for the night. Throbnad's on first watch. DM: What are you doing with the horses? PCs: Huh? Uh... tying them up, I guess. Why? DM: Ok, who's doing the tying and what's her Use Rope score? PCs: Uh... no one has Use Rope. I guess the rogue will do it, since she's got the highest dex. DM: OK. (Rolls behind screen.) Hmm. Well, to your UNTRAINED EYE, the horses certainly SEEM securely tethered. You GUESS. PCs: Ah, crap! --- PCs: Ok, first we all take turns glaring at the stupid rogue. THEN we tie a rope around the cleric and lower her into the pit so she can revive Throbnad. DM: Ok, who's doing the tying? PCs: (grumble, grumble) DM: I'll interpret that as "the rogue." Ok. (Rolls behind screen.) Hmm. Well, to your UNTRAINED EYE, the rope from which the cleric is about to DANGLE PRECARIOUSLY over a FIFTY FOOT PIT with POISONOUS SPIKES at the bottom certainly SEEMS securely knotted. You GUESS. PCs: Ah, crap!
J Milburn 06-21-05, 12:32 PM	Yes, but seriously, its not that realistic, there isnt really any character concept that takes it as high on its skill list, and it is not that useful. You have two situations there. Name a worse skill! One of them has to be the worst.
Jshock_75 06-21-05, 12:45 PM	Worse? Profession (basketmaker). Assuming your campaign isn't basd around selling baskets or associating with the weaving community, I see no reason to take this.
Arrowhen 06-21-05, 01:30 PM	Yes, but seriously, its not that realistic, there isnt really any character concept that takes it as high on its skill list Sailor, spelunker, mountain climber, dominatrix... and it is not that useful. Unless you spend any amount of time in a dungeon environment, need to throw a grappling hook, want to fashion a rope bridge, want to tie a rope to that mysterious lever and pull it from safely around the corner, have a prisoner you need to tie up... Name a worse skill! Profession (Any)
Phrennzy 06-21-05, 01:47 PM	Sailor, spelunker, mountain climber, dominatrix... Heh. I have costumes for each of those...
Tjaeden 06-21-05, 01:48 PM	Actually, I found that my Epic Wizard has flourished with his Profession (Writer) checks of 75. Back to the main topic - that is just cruelly wicked... And I love it!
Arrowhen 06-21-05, 02:18 PM	Heh. I have costumes for each of those... Meh. If you had one costume for all four at once, then I'd be impressed. Actually, I found that my Epic Wizard has flourished with his Profession (Writer) checks of 75. Your epic wizard "flourishes" on 37.5 gold pieces a week?
Phaseroth 06-21-05, 04:44 PM	Your epic wizard "flourishes" on 37.5 gold pieces a week? Let's see, that's a little over 70 times what a common laborer makes in a week, so he oughta be living fairly large, anyway.
J Milburn 06-21-05, 04:59 PM	Ok, stop picking on me just because im stupid wrong and from a group of idiots. They think i know the game well, so i have stopped backing up my arguments with anything when talking to them.
J Milburn 06-21-05, 05:00 PM	And can we leave the profession skill alone please? its for the pointless odinary and unremarkable NPCs, not adventurers.
Sarig the Genie 06-21-05, 05:00 PM	PCs: We set up camp for the night. Throbnad's on first watch. DM: What are you doing with the horses? PCs: Huh? Uh... tying them up, I guess. Why? DM: Ok, who's doing the tying and what's her Use Rope score? PCs: Uh... no one has Use Rope. I guess the rogue will do it, since she's got the highest dex. DM: OK. (Rolls behind screen.) Hmm. Well, to your UNTRAINED EYE, the horses certainly SEEM securely tethered. You GUESS. PCs: Ah, crap! --- PCs: Ok, first we all take turns glaring at the stupid rogue. THEN we tie a rope around the cleric and lower her into the pit so she can revive Throbnad. DM: Ok, who's doing the tying? PCs: (grumble, grumble) DM: I'll interpret that as "the rogue." Ok. (Rolls behind screen.) Hmm. Well, to your UNTRAINED EYE, the rope from which the cleric is about to DANGLE PRECARIOUSLY over a FIFTY FOOT PIT with POISONOUS SPIKES at the bottom certainly SEEMS securely knotted. You GUESS. PCs: Ah, crap! Skills are things you are unnormally good at though; I'm quite sure any idiot is capable of tying a horse unless there's a -4 int penalty involved.
Super Guy 06-21-05, 05:09 PM	I agree with Sarig. Although securing a grappling hook, making complex knots, tying super-securely are all things that you would need Use Rope for, I can tie my shoes and I have no ranks in Use Rope. Likewise, I could knot a rope around a horse and around a tree if I wanted. Sure, maybe someone could unknot it easily, but if someone really wants those damn horses they'll get 'em no matter how well I tie. The point is, the horses won't escape unless they try in the extreme. And if they were trying in the extreme, there'd likely be a threatening enemy or hurricane or something and the party would awake. Use Rope IS handy to have, I'm not saying it's not- after all, trying to get across a chasm, I wouldn't trust just anyone to secure the rope on the other side!- but in smaller situations like that I don't think a check needs to be made.
Arrowhen 06-21-05, 06:04 PM	Although securing a grappling hook, making complex knots, tying super-securely are all things that you would need Use Rope for, I can tie my shoes and I have no ranks in Use Rope. Likewise, I could knot a rope around a horse and around a tree if I wanted. Sure, maybe someone could unknot it easily, but if someone really wants those damn horses they'll get 'em no matter how well I tie. The point is, the horses won't escape unless they try in the extreme. Some horses are remarkably good at untying themselves--certainly good enough to warrant an Escape Artist roll against an untrained 1st level character's Use Rope. Now, I wouldn't roll these sorts of mundane checks every single time the PCs make camp, but I DO like to use them with new groups of 1st level characters. Minor mishaps, such as horses wandering off or that campfire that just won't light, are a good way of creating the shared memories that can be very important in building camaraderie in a new group of adventurers. ("Hey, Throbnad, remember when we first met and you made that godsawful pot of rabbit stew?")
Super Guy 06-21-05, 06:38 PM	True, if a horse really wanted to escape he could perhaps make that attempt. I was thinking more along the lines of trained warhorses, rather than a horse that does not neccesarily recognize a PC as his master but as someone he doesn't like. Once in a while I guess it could be fun. I mean, if the horses leave the party every time they camp, that would be frustrating and annoying. But if perhaps you have an ornary horse I could see initiating a check with your player.
Kaiberon 06-22-05, 02:50 PM	I've found that a set of mithral manacles with 50 feet of chain solves the problem of use rope in most circumstances.
J Milburn 06-22-05, 03:43 PM	I've found that a set of mithral manacles with 50 feet of chain solves the problem of use rope in most circumstances. Look, not everyone can afford such luxuries...
Bane 06-22-05, 07:56 PM	My PC's never take Appraise. But at least one of them always has an ungodly powerful Sense Motive, so they just ask a shopkeeper what it's worth, and keep on him until he stops lying.