Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ffejan 02-23-06, 04:31 PM	Whats the best way to balance melee based encounters that contain a player who can maintain a high AC: example near 30, while the other players max around 20. My main problem is I want to make the encounter challenging, If I sub in a NPC/Monster that can over come the high AC without needing to roll a 20, it would be too much for the others (effectively rolling throughthe rest at ease) If i don't then the encounter can become too easy. Is the only way to overcome the high ACs is by using a Magical answer :Spells, Abilities and Such? or Adding Feats to base NPC, Monsters? Or do alot of melee encounters end with a race to roll 20 first?
magicalwizardprince 02-23-06, 04:38 PM	Whats the best way to balance melee based encounters that contain a player who can maintain a high AC: example near 30, while the other players max around 20. My main problem is I want to make the encounter challenging, If I sub in a NPC/Monster that can over come the high AC without needing to roll a 20, it would be too much for the others (effectively rolling throughthe rest at ease) If i don't then the encounter can become too easy. Is the only way to overcome the high ACs is by using a Magical answer :Spells, Abilities and Such? or Adding Feats to base NPC, Monsters? Or do alot of melee encounters end with a race to roll 20 first? You need to get some magic lotions. not to be confused with magic potions. You want the lotion it will answer all your questions.
ffejan 02-23-06, 04:52 PM	Ha ha funny MWprince, really tho, as a DM Im setting up fights for my players and Im just wondering that at some point melee becomes a race to see who rolls 20 first to hit, if so is it normal? Or am I not doing the encounters or something else correct?
Illion the Red 02-23-06, 04:53 PM	Whats the best way to balance melee based encounters that contain a player who can maintain a high AC: example near 30, while the other players max around 20. My main problem is I want to make the encounter challenging, If I sub in a NPC/Monster that can over come the high AC without needing to roll a 20, it would be too much for the others (effectively rolling throughthe rest at ease) If i don't then the encounter can become too easy. Is the only way to overcome the high ACs is by using a Magical answer :Spells, Abilities and Such? or Adding Feats to base NPC, Monsters? Or do alot of melee encounters end with a race to roll 20 first? You would have probably done better posting this in the "What's a DM to Do?" Forum, but here goes: There are a few questions that would help in the analysis: What classes/levels are the Characters involved? How does the Character get to 30 AC? Depending on the answers, it could be as easy as using touch attacks, to throwing tanglefoot bags at him.
DeadKeepWalking 02-23-06, 05:04 PM	Spells are a good counter to high AC. Use a couple of creatures that use spells, or have special abilities that don't require an actual hit to work. Use tactics as well. Creatures on higher ground get a +1 to hit, flanking provides a +2 to hit for the flanking creatures, if you are using many creatures have some of them use the aid another action to give the best attacker a +2 to hit per creature. Have creatures with ranks in bluff use the feint action, which if successful denies the character his DEX bonus to AC for 1 round, and subsequently dodge bonuses as well. Put intervening barriers between the enemies, and the characters. Have the enemies pelt them with ranged attacks until the characters overcome the barriers. Trip the character, grapple the character, and if you want to be mean, sunder shields and armor. Intelligent enemies will realize they don't have a chance of hurting the tough guy, and would go after the weaker ones, or retreat to prepare for a more favorable situation. Have some enemies use ranged attacks on the less protected characters, while other enemies keep the hard to hit character busy. You don't have to beat his AC if the whole party is in danger, and the fights will seem more interesting.
ffejan 02-23-06, 05:47 PM	Thanks for answering, good advice. I was, looking through large amounts of data( FAQs and such) and began to get the idea to not let my encounters be so simple as to be foiled by 1 aspect. Going to read some more and try to get a handle on all the things I can do! Also going to jump to DM forums , sorry for posting here :)
Zherog 02-23-06, 08:24 PM	If I sub in a NPC/Monster that can over come the high AC without needing to roll a 20, it would be too much for the others (effectively rolling throughthe rest at ease) If i don't then the encounter can become too easy. That's not necessarily true. Just because you can more easily hit an AC 30 doesn't mean you'll decimate a character with an AC of 20. For example, if the monster could easily hit AC 22, then tweaking it to hit AC 30 really won't effect the other PCs - they'd have been getting hit anyway. Here's other things: Spells You can go all sorts of paths here. You can go with the stereotypical evocations and force him to make Reflex saves; you can go for the enchantments like charm person or even dominate person and turn him against the other PCs. You can go with Fortitude type spells, such as cloudkill. You could even go with isolation spells, such as wall of stone and remove him from the fight. Touch attacks Alchemist's fire and acid only need to hit the target's touch AC. Rogues can even get sneak attack with it. Special attack options Trip him; disarm him; grapple him; bullrush him. Try different things. You'll accomplish two things; first, you'll be doing something different, and different is always cool. Second, you'll be challenging your player by making him react differently. Gang up on him Send swarms of smaller creatures at him - kobolds or goblins for example. Have them flank, for a +2 bonus. Have some of them use the "aid another" tactic for another +2 bonus. When he kills some, have more flow in and fill the gaps. Here's the most important one... Let it happen All of the above are great - as a once in a while thing. But you really shouldn't "punish" your PC just because he has one stat better than the others. He worked to get that - either by increasing his Dex, or buying items, or getting feats, or whatever. So don't take it away from him. Have plenty of chances for him to take full advantage of the high AC; just every once in a while, sprinkle in one of the other things to add a bit of spice and variety. Hope that helps.