Accessory some of you might enjoy. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Accessory some of you might enjoy. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MEAT
07-19-06, 11:51 PM I have created an accessory for 3rd edition that I hope you all enjoy called the Diehards Handbook. This handbook questions the concept of the Hit Point system in D&D (amongst many other things) and presents a new style of play that is refreshing and challenging. This book focuses on "role-playing," not "roll-playing!"

Creating this handbook has been a hobby of mine for quite some time now, but after years of gaming with the rules governed in this handbook, I was persuaded to release it to the general public so others might enjoy what myself and a few others have also. This handbook was created in MS Word and "printed" with PrimoPDF into a .pdf file so everyone can see it. It's pretty darn accurate to the Word file but there are some minor graphical issues you probably won't even notice. I never intended to sell this written works so feel free to download as you wish, however I would like credit for any material presented within if you decide to use it in your own works. Of note, this accessory has been heavily play-tested in its current form. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome, however I doubt I will alter the handbook anytime soon save for some horrendous unforeseen balance issues.

I have also created a complete stand-alone adventure to correspond with the special rules presented in this handbook. Everything in the adventure is my own works. Most of the scanned maps look much better on paper for some reason. Thoughts and comments regarding the adventure are also welcome.

You can view or download the handbook and adventure by visiting my website here (http://members.cox.net/meat/) or directly download the Diehards Handbook (http://members.cox.net/meat/Diehards%20Handbook%20v4.2.pdf) and Adventure (http://members.cox.net/meat/The%20Curse%20of%20Greed%20&%20Gold.pdf).
Cincinnati
07-20-06, 12:09 AM The .pdf is not readable for me :weep:

It's just a bunch of random squares and symbols...
cancerousmango
07-20-06, 12:45 AM Very interesting...
I'll bookmark it and hack away at it. It's very dense, with no fluff or downtime.

But nice.

Update: I noticed some Book of Erotic Fantasy Silliness creeping in here...spells like "Impregnate," "Power Word, Strip?" Silly. Although it would be cool to command the BBEG to take off his Full Plate of TPK's...

And the Random Pick Pocket Table is the most insane random table ever...I'm Joe Thief, and I lift an old lady's purse. What do I get, depending on the roll?

A Severed Hand
Bottle of Breast Milk
Diapers
Handful of Slime
Human Skulls
Load-stone (compass) (that's not too weird, but it's spelled Lode-stone)
Sexual Devise
amongst other things

You have issues, Freud would have a field day with the obsession with pregnancy, lactation, infantilism, blah blah blah.

Just funnin'.
stargate525
07-20-06, 02:14 AM The .pdf is not readable for me :weep:

It's just a bunch of random squares and symbols...
get the latest verison of adobe acrobat, should fix the problem.
cthulhu42
07-20-06, 04:32 AM Err, this part left me a little curious...

An excerpt from the Diehard Handbook...

"The old D&D system left
females at the disadvantage of not being allowed
to use /00 strength, but many considered this to
be sexist. The fact is women cannot physically lift
as much weight as men without male hormones!
It just isn't possible and it isn't a bad thing either
– just a fact of life. To show accurately for this
discrepancy in attributes, women receive a STR
penalty of –1 however receive a +1 INT."

So its simply impossible for any woman to ever be as strong as the strongest man, but on the other hand, no man will ever be as intelligent as the most intelligent woman? Why? Men simply cannot lift as much mental weight without female hormones?

It's obvious that you put a lot of effort and love and time into this, and for that I offer you many kudos. But my honest opinion (and please bear in mind that this is based only upon a read of the first 20 pages or so) is that A) It bears an awful lot of resemblance to Call of Cthulhu. In fact, it remined me of a souped up version of CoC: Dark Ages. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as I am a HUGE fan of CoC in all of its (pre d20) forms, but I think I'd be more apt to use this material to flesh out a CoC: Dark Ages campagin than a D&D game.

B) Forgive me if this sounds harsh or flip, but after reading 13 pages the thought that kept coming back to me was that you had suceeded in surgicly removing much of the fun of D&D. The point of D&D is NOT realisim. It is NOT about being a pesant in a medevil world. It is NOT about realistic combat. It is NOT about realistic interpretation of physical damage.

It is about heroism. And heroism generaly equals action. And action generaly equals rolling dice. And rolling dice is not something you advocate. I quote...

"The Diehards Handbook has role-playing
at its core because hit points are static making a
20th level character on equal level with a 1st level
character in many ways. Sure the 20th will have
more skills and powers, but they will both die if
they take excessive damage, unlike typical D20
systems where HP is a dialectical farce. This
means more role-playing and well thought out
combat strategies to resolve situations because
the more those dice roll, the greater your chance
of death and nobody wants that."

But the fact is, we DO want to roll dice! Look, role-playing is wonderful, as is a rich and satisfying story line, but so is combat! And heroic combat is even better! And the fact is, the d20 system (and even the older versions of D&D) give a pretty decent mechanic for dealing with combat. Does it ignore many, many, many things that would make the game more realistic? Absolutly! I could go on for pages about logical flaws in the system, but I choose to ignore it all because D&D is not about logic. It is about heroisim. Suspension of disbelief. Escapisim.

That said, i think you have some genuinly good ideas that may deserve to be cherry picked and incorperated into games. I plan to read more thouroly into it when I have time.

Oh, and please excuse my poor spelling. Those mispelled words are just sitting there glareing at me!
cancerousmango
07-20-06, 11:30 AM Gotten to a therapist about the preggo obsession yet?
MEAT
07-21-06, 10:36 PM So its simply impossible for any woman to ever be as strong as the strongest man, but on the other hand, no man will ever be as intelligent as the most intelligent woman? Why? Men simply cannot lift as much mental weight without female hormones?

What you say is very true. In my attempt to balance out a rule I felt was a necessary adjustment for the realism my gaming party and I strive for, I've created yet another conundrum to deal with: why should females receive an additional point of intelligence? My thoughts at the time were on a few large-scale studies done at universities throughout America making the claim that in certain areas of intelligence, women were slightly smarter than men. While I have no clear-cut answer for you, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_intelligence) is a link for you to check out.

It bears an awful lot of resemblance to Call of Cthulhu.

Really? I've never had the chance to play a Call of Cthulhu game, but I've always wanted too. Perhaps I've been playing the wrong game all along? Does anyone else feel my purposed accessory "feels" like CoC? Just curious.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh or flip

No worries. It's important for others to have their own opinion and while I might disagree with your judgment, I will never take it personally or launch a retaliatory response back.

, but after reading 13 pages the thought that kept coming back to me was that you had suceeded in surgicly removing much of the fun of D&D. The point of D&D is NOT realisim. It is NOT about being a pesant in a medevil world. It is NOT about realistic combat. It is NOT about realistic interpretation of physical damage.

It is about heroism. And heroism generaly equals action. And action generaly equals rolling dice. And rolling dice is not something you advocate.

And you are without a doubt correct. "Heroism" is what D&D represents and why I created the Diehards Handbook. I'm fully aware that not everyone (or anyone for that matter) will enjoy what is written within my guide, and that's fine with me so long as it can be regarded as what it's meant to be: The Diehards Handbook - a work unto it's own. When compared to the atmosphere the core D&D rules provide, there will surly be major differences, which is in fact why the guide was written in the first place. Some of the responses I've received so far from other people have been enthusiasm for certain aspects of the guide - such as the Critical Failure chart - but a general "oh, that's nice," attitude for the rest of it. If people take certain aspects they like and leave the rest, more power to them.

That said, i think you have some genuinly good ideas that may deserve to be cherry picked and incorperated into games. I plan to read more thouroly into it when I have time.

Thank you! I hope you find some of it useful.

TO: cancerousmango
RE: Random Pick-Pocket

The concept of the random pickpocket table was designed by me when my group of gamers all decided to play thieves and pick *every-single* person's pockets they went past. They showed no restraint from whom they pick-pocketed and didn't even bother asking me as a DM what their intended target looked like (so long as it wasn't a guard). The table is far from perfect and you can use it as you like. I only use it when my players are walking in a crowded street and say to me, "I pick the nearest persons pockets." Use it as your own discretion.
cthulhu42
07-22-06, 05:17 AM Thank you for your well worded and rational reply.

I'd be curious too if anyone else see's a CoC resemblance. I might just be imagining it. Ceratin things like the size modifyer and it's effect on hit points are very similar to CoC.

Cthulhu, the core game, is set in a 1920's Lovecraftian world in which heroisim generaly amounts to translating a long lost scroll, and no matter how long a character has managed to stay alive even the least of the mythos creatures can quite easily tear your head off. And even if you don't get killed, you WILL eventually go insane.

So, while brilliant, CoC is a long way from D&D, so if its medevil fantasy you're looking for, you're probably not playing the wrong game.

However! Recently Call of Cthulhu: Dark Ages was released, and it delves deeply into real medevil culture and life. Life is just as cheap, and it's gritty and dark, and it has captured my heart (even though I have yet to get my group to actualy play it). Judgeing from what I've seen of your guide, you might dig it. Your Diehard handbook reminded me of CoC:DA on steroids.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MEAT 07-19-06, 11:51 PM	I have created an accessory for 3rd edition that I hope you all enjoy called the Diehards Handbook. This handbook questions the concept of the Hit Point system in D&D (amongst many other things) and presents a new style of play that is refreshing and challenging. This book focuses on "role-playing," not "roll-playing!" Creating this handbook has been a hobby of mine for quite some time now, but after years of gaming with the rules governed in this handbook, I was persuaded to release it to the general public so others might enjoy what myself and a few others have also. This handbook was created in MS Word and "printed" with PrimoPDF into a .pdf file so everyone can see it. It's pretty darn accurate to the Word file but there are some minor graphical issues you probably won't even notice. I never intended to sell this written works so feel free to download as you wish, however I would like credit for any material presented within if you decide to use it in your own works. Of note, this accessory has been heavily play-tested in its current form. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome, however I doubt I will alter the handbook anytime soon save for some horrendous unforeseen balance issues. I have also created a complete stand-alone adventure to correspond with the special rules presented in this handbook. Everything in the adventure is my own works. Most of the scanned maps look much better on paper for some reason. Thoughts and comments regarding the adventure are also welcome. You can view or download the handbook and adventure by visiting my website here (http://members.cox.net/meat/) or directly download the Diehards Handbook (http://members.cox.net/meat/Diehards%20Handbook%20v4.2.pdf) and Adventure (http://members.cox.net/meat/The%20Curse%20of%20Greed%20&%20Gold.pdf).
Cincinnati 07-20-06, 12:09 AM	The .pdf is not readable for me :weep: It's just a bunch of random squares and symbols...
cancerousmango 07-20-06, 12:45 AM	Very interesting... I'll bookmark it and hack away at it. It's very dense, with no fluff or downtime. But nice. Update: I noticed some Book of Erotic Fantasy Silliness creeping in here...spells like "Impregnate," "Power Word, Strip?" Silly. Although it would be cool to command the BBEG to take off his Full Plate of TPK's... And the Random Pick Pocket Table is the most insane random table ever...I'm Joe Thief, and I lift an old lady's purse. What do I get, depending on the roll? A Severed Hand Bottle of Breast Milk Diapers Handful of Slime Human Skulls Load-stone (compass) (that's not too weird, but it's spelled Lode-stone) Sexual Devise amongst other things You have issues, Freud would have a field day with the obsession with pregnancy, lactation, infantilism, blah blah blah. Just funnin'.
stargate525 07-20-06, 02:14 AM	The .pdf is not readable for me :weep: It's just a bunch of random squares and symbols... get the latest verison of adobe acrobat, should fix the problem.
cthulhu42 07-20-06, 04:32 AM	Err, this part left me a little curious... An excerpt from the Diehard Handbook... "The old D&D system left females at the disadvantage of not being allowed to use /00 strength, but many considered this to be sexist. The fact is women cannot physically lift as much weight as men without male hormones! It just isn't possible and it isn't a bad thing either – just a fact of life. To show accurately for this discrepancy in attributes, women receive a STR penalty of –1 however receive a +1 INT." So its simply impossible for any woman to ever be as strong as the strongest man, but on the other hand, no man will ever be as intelligent as the most intelligent woman? Why? Men simply cannot lift as much mental weight without female hormones? It's obvious that you put a lot of effort and love and time into this, and for that I offer you many kudos. But my honest opinion (and please bear in mind that this is based only upon a read of the first 20 pages or so) is that A) It bears an awful lot of resemblance to Call of Cthulhu. In fact, it remined me of a souped up version of CoC: Dark Ages. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as I am a HUGE fan of CoC in all of its (pre d20) forms, but I think I'd be more apt to use this material to flesh out a CoC: Dark Ages campagin than a D&D game. B) Forgive me if this sounds harsh or flip, but after reading 13 pages the thought that kept coming back to me was that you had suceeded in surgicly removing much of the fun of D&D. The point of D&D is NOT realisim. It is NOT about being a pesant in a medevil world. It is NOT about realistic combat. It is NOT about realistic interpretation of physical damage. It is about heroism. And heroism generaly equals action. And action generaly equals rolling dice. And rolling dice is not something you advocate. I quote... "The Diehards Handbook has role-playing at its core because hit points are static making a 20th level character on equal level with a 1st level character in many ways. Sure the 20th will have more skills and powers, but they will both die if they take excessive damage, unlike typical D20 systems where HP is a dialectical farce. This means more role-playing and well thought out combat strategies to resolve situations because the more those dice roll, the greater your chance of death and nobody wants that." But the fact is, we DO want to roll dice! Look, role-playing is wonderful, as is a rich and satisfying story line, but so is combat! And heroic combat is even better! And the fact is, the d20 system (and even the older versions of D&D) give a pretty decent mechanic for dealing with combat. Does it ignore many, many, many things that would make the game more realistic? Absolutly! I could go on for pages about logical flaws in the system, but I choose to ignore it all because D&D is not about logic. It is about heroisim. Suspension of disbelief. Escapisim. That said, i think you have some genuinly good ideas that may deserve to be cherry picked and incorperated into games. I plan to read more thouroly into it when I have time. Oh, and please excuse my poor spelling. Those mispelled words are just sitting there glareing at me!
cancerousmango 07-20-06, 11:30 AM	Gotten to a therapist about the preggo obsession yet?
MEAT 07-21-06, 10:36 PM	So its simply impossible for any woman to ever be as strong as the strongest man, but on the other hand, no man will ever be as intelligent as the most intelligent woman? Why? Men simply cannot lift as much mental weight without female hormones? What you say is very true. In my attempt to balance out a rule I felt was a necessary adjustment for the realism my gaming party and I strive for, I've created yet another conundrum to deal with: why should females receive an additional point of intelligence? My thoughts at the time were on a few large-scale studies done at universities throughout America making the claim that in certain areas of intelligence, women were slightly smarter than men. While I have no clear-cut answer for you, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_intelligence) is a link for you to check out. It bears an awful lot of resemblance to Call of Cthulhu. Really? I've never had the chance to play a Call of Cthulhu game, but I've always wanted too. Perhaps I've been playing the wrong game all along? Does anyone else feel my purposed accessory "feels" like CoC? Just curious. Forgive me if this sounds harsh or flip No worries. It's important for others to have their own opinion and while I might disagree with your judgment, I will never take it personally or launch a retaliatory response back. , but after reading 13 pages the thought that kept coming back to me was that you had suceeded in surgicly removing much of the fun of D&D. The point of D&D is NOT realisim. It is NOT about being a pesant in a medevil world. It is NOT about realistic combat. It is NOT about realistic interpretation of physical damage. It is about heroism. And heroism generaly equals action. And action generaly equals rolling dice. And rolling dice is not something you advocate. And you are without a doubt correct. "Heroism" is what D&D represents and why I created the Diehards Handbook. I'm fully aware that not everyone (or anyone for that matter) will enjoy what is written within my guide, and that's fine with me so long as it can be regarded as what it's meant to be: The Diehards Handbook - a work unto it's own. When compared to the atmosphere the core D&D rules provide, there will surly be major differences, which is in fact why the guide was written in the first place. Some of the responses I've received so far from other people have been enthusiasm for certain aspects of the guide - such as the Critical Failure chart - but a general "oh, that's nice," attitude for the rest of it. If people take certain aspects they like and leave the rest, more power to them. That said, i think you have some genuinly good ideas that may deserve to be cherry picked and incorperated into games. I plan to read more thouroly into it when I have time. Thank you! I hope you find some of it useful. TO: cancerousmango RE: Random Pick-Pocket The concept of the random pickpocket table was designed by me when my group of gamers all decided to play thieves and pick every-single person's pockets they went past. They showed no restraint from whom they pick-pocketed and didn't even bother asking me as a DM what their intended target looked like (so long as it wasn't a guard). The table is far from perfect and you can use it as you like. I only use it when my players are walking in a crowded street and say to me, "I pick the nearest persons pockets." Use it as your own discretion.
cthulhu42 07-22-06, 05:17 AM	Thank you for your well worded and rational reply. I'd be curious too if anyone else see's a CoC resemblance. I might just be imagining it. Ceratin things like the size modifyer and it's effect on hit points are very similar to CoC. Cthulhu, the core game, is set in a 1920's Lovecraftian world in which heroisim generaly amounts to translating a long lost scroll, and no matter how long a character has managed to stay alive even the least of the mythos creatures can quite easily tear your head off. And even if you don't get killed, you WILL eventually go insane. So, while brilliant, CoC is a long way from D&D, so if its medevil fantasy you're looking for, you're probably not playing the wrong game. However! Recently Call of Cthulhu: Dark Ages was released, and it delves deeply into real medevil culture and life. Life is just as cheap, and it's gritty and dark, and it has captured my heart (even though I have yet to get my group to actualy play it). Judgeing from what I've seen of your guide, you might dig it. Your Diehard handbook reminded me of CoC:DA on steroids.