Acolyte of the Fist 3.5 version [Archive] - Wizards Community

Acolyte of the Fist 3.5 version [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
vahju
06-22-04, 12:29 PM I found the prestige class in Dragon Magazine issue 296 called Acolyte of the Fist (great monk class). Due to copy right issues I cannot post the class but would like to know if anyone has had any success in converting this class to 3.5.

If you could post the new version or email the new version that would be great.

Thanks.
Cyrus_Hunter
06-22-04, 03:35 PM Acolyte of the Fist is actually a really easy prestige class to translate to 3.5 version. There's no skill changes, nor are there any requirements changes and since they don't cast spells, there's nothing to change for that.

Here's the alterations you need to make to play as an Acolyte of the Fist 3.5:

Add the Class Feature:
Monk Abilities: Characters who were previously monks add thier levels of Acolyte of the Fist to thier monk levels to determine Unarmed Damage, Unarmored Speed, AC Bonus and Flurry of Blows effectiveness. In this case, disregard the Unarmed Damage and Unarmored Speed listings fo the prestige class and use the ones gained by monk instead.

At level 1, Fist of Speed now allows for the character to make an extra attack at her highest attack bonus while making a full-attack action as there are no more partial actions.

At level 2, the Acolyte of the Fist still receives Fists of Iron feat, but it can now be found in Complete Warrior on page 99 instead of Sword and Fist (which is now outdated).

At level 3, the Ki Strike (+1) ability is to be changed to Ki Strike (magic), as per the monk ability. If the character already has it, there is no effect.

At level 6, the Ki Strike (+2) ability is to be changed to Ki Strike (lawful), as per the monk ability. If the character already has it, they gain either Ki Strike (good) or Ki Strike (evil), dependant upon thier alignment. If the Acolyte of the Fist is neutral, they choose to gain either Ki Strike ability.

At level 8, the Ki Strike (+3) ability is to be changed to Ki Strike (adamantine), as per the monk ability. If the character already has it, there is no effect.

As you can see, the monk can start taking this prestige class at level 6, which negates the Ki Strike (magic) ability they get. Otherwise, they gain the other Ki Strikes faster than normal, and get all the other happy goodness.

This has been altered in accordance to the standards set forth by the Oriental Adventures 3.5 update, which in part states that Monk prestige classes should add thier class level to thier monk level to determine his unarmed damage, Armor Class bonus, speed and effectiveness of thier flurry of blows.

Monks are more capable as Acolytes of the Fist and have much more to gain than other characters as given in the following example:

A level 15 character (Monk 5/Acolyte of the Fist 10) would have:
Unarmed Damage of +2 die types (to 2d6)
+30 foot movement (to 70 ft. on a medium)
+2 AC Bonus
+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 Flurry of Blows Bonus.

A level 15 character (Rogue 5/Acolyte of the Fist 10) would have:
Unarmed Damage of +2 die types (to 1d8)
+30 foot movement (to 60 ft. on a medium)

That isn't too bad because the Rogue character would have 5th level Rogue abilities, which can still make this very powerful class choice (like sneak attack combined with Fist of Speed, Fist of Iron, Fist of Power (Forceblast) and Fist of Energy).

Maxing out all thier abilities, this character could deal 75 damage on average, 150 with maximum damage and 174 damage on a full critical before strength bonuses, magic weapon bonuses, etc. Of course, most of thier abilities would be expended by that time.

I know this seems high so let me show you the balancing point.

A 15th level fighter with an orc double axe would deal 24 on an average attack, 48 on a maxed attack and 144 damage on a full critical before bonuses and feats apply, and they can potentially deal that damage as many times a day as they attack, so it all balances out.
vahju
06-22-04, 04:47 PM Thanks for your quick response. I was going that route but I wanted to make sure.

Do you think the ability to subtract the Acolytes level from the hardness of items is too powerful? This would be good combo with the Sunder feat.

Also it seems that the damage, bab, and damage falls in line with a monk of the same level. The only thing that wasn't mentioned in the original was armor class. I wonder if the if this should be translated like some of the other prestige classes I have seen where your attack, bab, armor class, movement, and damage dice are same as a monk of your character level.
Cyrus_Hunter
06-23-04, 12:23 AM I don't think the extra sundering and armor class are appropriate. The Acolyte of the Fist is based on the idea of 'wanting' and with such an aggressive idea, armor class bonuses are out of the question.

The sundering, however should be kept the same. These guys are meant to be the 'smashy-smashy' style of character and although they can be quite proficient at destroying weapons, there are some penalties. If the acolyte is small, they get a -4 penalty and if the acolyte has to fight unarmed (which most do), they recieve a -4 penalty (because an unarmed attack is considered a light weapon). Thus this ability isn't very good in battle because they either suffer a minimum of -4 to thier attack during sunderings (making 5th level the first where they get a bonus), or they have to use a weapon and deal considerably less damage.

A 10th level Acolyte of the Fist with a quarterstaff would negate all the hardness of most normal weapons and could probably sunder them on the first try. Just remember that hardness can't go below 0.

Besides, Fists of Iron became more powerful in the mean time, balancing everything else out. If you want to make it more powerful, simply say that Acolyte of the Fist levels count as Monk levels for determining the amount of times a day you can use Stunning Fist. That should power you up considerably.

Edited: 6/23/03
On review of Dragon #318 (which deals, in part to the Oriental Adventure update), I would like to make the following changes to the prestige class, which I'll do up in good to my original post.

When the character gains ki strike(lawful), if they already have that ability, they should gain ki strike (good) or ki strike (evil) depending on thier actual alignment (good characters gain good). If they are neutral, they choose one of the two and gain that.

I also revise my previous statement, thier monk level should be added to thier Acolyte of the Fist level to determine unarmed damage, Armor Class bonus, speed and flurry of blows effectiveness.
vahju
08-23-04, 04:34 PM It's been a while since I read this post. Thanks for all your help. I am still having issues with the fourth level ability Fists of Destruction. As noted in the PHB and the above threads when a monk gets Ki Strike (adamantine) they can attack a non living object by ignoring its hardness. This makes the fourth level ability null and void.

Any one have any suggestions for alternate feats or abilities that can be substituted for Fists of Destruction. I would hate to take a class ability that would be useless one or two levels later.
Cyrus_Hunter
08-24-04, 11:15 AM Fists of Destruction gradually removes hardness from an item, while Ki Strike (adamantine) his attacks act like adamantine.

While this does void Fists of Destruction, it's easier to think of it, not as making an ability useless, but merely upgrading the ability, since you now would be able to bypass some damage reduction as well.

Also, remember that Fist of Destruction might have some power at later levels against higher hardness ratings (I dont' have the source material to verify that, but I'm fairly certain).

All in all, listen to your friends at Monte Cook's forum. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
vahju 06-22-04, 12:29 PM	I found the prestige class in Dragon Magazine issue 296 called Acolyte of the Fist (great monk class). Due to copy right issues I cannot post the class but would like to know if anyone has had any success in converting this class to 3.5. If you could post the new version or email the new version that would be great. Thanks.
Cyrus_Hunter 06-22-04, 03:35 PM	Acolyte of the Fist is actually a really easy prestige class to translate to 3.5 version. There's no skill changes, nor are there any requirements changes and since they don't cast spells, there's nothing to change for that. Here's the alterations you need to make to play as an Acolyte of the Fist 3.5: Add the Class Feature: Monk Abilities: Characters who were previously monks add thier levels of Acolyte of the Fist to thier monk levels to determine Unarmed Damage, Unarmored Speed, AC Bonus and Flurry of Blows effectiveness. In this case, disregard the Unarmed Damage and Unarmored Speed listings fo the prestige class and use the ones gained by monk instead. At level 1, Fist of Speed now allows for the character to make an extra attack at her highest attack bonus while making a full-attack action as there are no more partial actions. At level 2, the Acolyte of the Fist still receives Fists of Iron feat, but it can now be found in Complete Warrior on page 99 instead of Sword and Fist (which is now outdated). At level 3, the Ki Strike (+1) ability is to be changed to Ki Strike (magic), as per the monk ability. If the character already has it, there is no effect. At level 6, the Ki Strike (+2) ability is to be changed to Ki Strike (lawful), as per the monk ability. If the character already has it, they gain either Ki Strike (good) or Ki Strike (evil), dependant upon thier alignment. If the Acolyte of the Fist is neutral, they choose to gain either Ki Strike ability. At level 8, the Ki Strike (+3) ability is to be changed to Ki Strike (adamantine), as per the monk ability. If the character already has it, there is no effect. As you can see, the monk can start taking this prestige class at level 6, which negates the Ki Strike (magic) ability they get. Otherwise, they gain the other Ki Strikes faster than normal, and get all the other happy goodness. This has been altered in accordance to the standards set forth by the Oriental Adventures 3.5 update, which in part states that Monk prestige classes should add thier class level to thier monk level to determine his unarmed damage, Armor Class bonus, speed and effectiveness of thier flurry of blows. Monks are more capable as Acolytes of the Fist and have much more to gain than other characters as given in the following example: A level 15 character (Monk 5/Acolyte of the Fist 10) would have: Unarmed Damage of +2 die types (to 2d6) +30 foot movement (to 70 ft. on a medium) +2 AC Bonus +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 Flurry of Blows Bonus. A level 15 character (Rogue 5/Acolyte of the Fist 10) would have: Unarmed Damage of +2 die types (to 1d8) +30 foot movement (to 60 ft. on a medium) That isn't too bad because the Rogue character would have 5th level Rogue abilities, which can still make this very powerful class choice (like sneak attack combined with Fist of Speed, Fist of Iron, Fist of Power (Forceblast) and Fist of Energy). Maxing out all thier abilities, this character could deal 75 damage on average, 150 with maximum damage and 174 damage on a full critical before strength bonuses, magic weapon bonuses, etc. Of course, most of thier abilities would be expended by that time. I know this seems high so let me show you the balancing point. A 15th level fighter with an orc double axe would deal 24 on an average attack, 48 on a maxed attack and 144 damage on a full critical before bonuses and feats apply, and they can potentially deal that damage as many times a day as they attack, so it all balances out.
vahju 06-22-04, 04:47 PM	Thanks for your quick response. I was going that route but I wanted to make sure. Do you think the ability to subtract the Acolytes level from the hardness of items is too powerful? This would be good combo with the Sunder feat. Also it seems that the damage, bab, and damage falls in line with a monk of the same level. The only thing that wasn't mentioned in the original was armor class. I wonder if the if this should be translated like some of the other prestige classes I have seen where your attack, bab, armor class, movement, and damage dice are same as a monk of your character level.
Cyrus_Hunter 06-23-04, 12:23 AM	I don't think the extra sundering and armor class are appropriate. The Acolyte of the Fist is based on the idea of 'wanting' and with such an aggressive idea, armor class bonuses are out of the question. The sundering, however should be kept the same. These guys are meant to be the 'smashy-smashy' style of character and although they can be quite proficient at destroying weapons, there are some penalties. If the acolyte is small, they get a -4 penalty and if the acolyte has to fight unarmed (which most do), they recieve a -4 penalty (because an unarmed attack is considered a light weapon). Thus this ability isn't very good in battle because they either suffer a minimum of -4 to thier attack during sunderings (making 5th level the first where they get a bonus), or they have to use a weapon and deal considerably less damage. A 10th level Acolyte of the Fist with a quarterstaff would negate all the hardness of most normal weapons and could probably sunder them on the first try. Just remember that hardness can't go below 0. Besides, Fists of Iron became more powerful in the mean time, balancing everything else out. If you want to make it more powerful, simply say that Acolyte of the Fist levels count as Monk levels for determining the amount of times a day you can use Stunning Fist. That should power you up considerably. Edited: 6/23/03 On review of Dragon #318 (which deals, in part to the Oriental Adventure update), I would like to make the following changes to the prestige class, which I'll do up in good to my original post. When the character gains ki strike(lawful), if they already have that ability, they should gain ki strike (good) or ki strike (evil) depending on thier actual alignment (good characters gain good). If they are neutral, they choose one of the two and gain that. I also revise my previous statement, thier monk level should be added to thier Acolyte of the Fist level to determine unarmed damage, Armor Class bonus, speed and flurry of blows effectiveness.
vahju 08-23-04, 04:34 PM	It's been a while since I read this post. Thanks for all your help. I am still having issues with the fourth level ability Fists of Destruction. As noted in the PHB and the above threads when a monk gets Ki Strike (adamantine) they can attack a non living object by ignoring its hardness. This makes the fourth level ability null and void. Any one have any suggestions for alternate feats or abilities that can be substituted for Fists of Destruction. I would hate to take a class ability that would be useless one or two levels later.
Cyrus_Hunter 08-24-04, 11:15 AM	Fists of Destruction gradually removes hardness from an item, while Ki Strike (adamantine) his attacks act like adamantine. While this does void Fists of Destruction, it's easier to think of it, not as making an ability useless, but merely upgrading the ability, since you now would be able to bypass some damage reduction as well. Also, remember that Fist of Destruction might have some power at later levels against higher hardness ratings (I dont' have the source material to verify that, but I'm fairly certain). All in all, listen to your friends at Monte Cook's forum. :D