Post/Author/DateTime	Post
N3kr0 03-15-07, 11:47 AM	hello everyone, i just began to explore the wonders of D&D... as a DM... i recently aquired the basic set, my friends and i after a brief introduction to the system, we started playing, 4 players as default, the basic rules then the advanced, now that we've finished, i off to some find some new adventure, they are lvl2, but we are 6, 4 of them played using 2 characters, with no problems, and now everyone wants to play... i searched a lot but found very few with interest, for me anyways, i like dark, very dark plots, ravenloft kind of thing. Found one that i liked, goes for 4 players between lvl4 and 6lvl, but it also says that can be adapted for any number of character of any level, this is not the first time that i read this about an adventure. I want to know what exactly do i need to perform that changes on everything that needs the proper change. Could anyone help me on this matter? :)
Subversive 03-15-07, 03:00 PM	I'm assuming you have the Dungeon Master's Guide since you've moved up to the advanced game. I would start by suggesting you heavily read the DMG sections on CR (Challenge Rating) of individual creatures and ECL (Encounter Level) of enemy group encounters. These set up a framework you can use to design challenging encounters that are appropriate for your group's size and level. Generally speaking, a creature with a CR equal to the average level of a 4-person party should consume 20% of the party's resources in an encounter as a rule of thumb. When the group is facing a single opponent, that opponent's CR equals its ECL. However, when facing a group, two creatures with an equal CR create an ECL two levels higher. For example, if the group is facing two creatures with CRs of 2, then the ECL of the encounter is 4. The DMG has a chart in its ECL section for calculating the ECL of monster groups with different CRs. It also talks about designing events with different ECL levels to challenge your group with. For example, while about 50% of encounters should be an ECL equivalent to the group's level, some should be lower by a few levels, some should be higher by one or two levels, and the rare 5% should be 3 levels (or sometimes more) higher then the group. This last 5% represents boss challenges, or simply challenges that the group needs to run away from to fight another day. The DMG has guidelines for this. Another thing worth noting is that all ECLs are not the same. An encounter with a large group of very low ECL opponents (Kobalds, for example) and an encounter with a juvenile white dragon might technically have the same ECL, but the white dragon will generally be a much more difficult encounter. It's also worth mentioning that your group is a group of 6 characters. As a rule of thumb, when dealing with a group this size, I up ECLs by one level to reflect the party's increased staying power. Therefore, if the group is six level two characters, an equivalent ECL (one that should use 20% of the group's resources) would be a ECL 3 encounter. In your specific situation, since you're are adapting an adventure to reflect the equivalent of a 3rd level group of adventurers and the adventure is designed for characters between lvl4 and lvl 6, I would downgrade the encounters by one level. This can be done in several ways, by reducing the number of opponents, changing out monsters for other similar - but slightly weaker - monsters, and reducing the level of enemy NPC encounters by one (if the group is going to encounter a Big Bad Evil Guy - BBEG - rescore him for level 6 instead of using his listed stats at level 7, for example). I hope this advice helped. Feel free to post details of specific encounters that you want to readjust here on the forum. I'm sure that people would be happy to help. What adventure are you running for the group anyway? -Steve
baron162 03-15-07, 04:20 PM	adn if you don't want to do all the calculating with the Encounter levels, the Encounter Calculater at the d20srd is your friend! http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm it shows you the encounter level, the XP per character and the average treasure value of that encounter. this is a great tool. But to be able to use it, you have to read the parts in the DMG, like Subversive said.
Subversive 03-15-07, 05:45 PM	yeah, the only thing I didn't mention was CR and Level Adjustment (LA) when it comes to monsters, because sometimes that makes my brain hurt.
N3kr0 03-16-07, 06:54 AM	Hello again, well... must say i did not expect such reply.:D Can't thank you enough, both :cool: i've read the DMG to get used to some more advanced rules, and... now i must do it again... Thank you for the time spent explaining all that, i was hoping to begin a game session for my friends right this weekend, don't know if we'll make it, but i'll do my best. the adventure that i want to run is 'A Dead Man's Party'. :) Thanks baron162 for that amazing tool, it really seems exactly what i need :D thanks for the help guys, i'll be back for a few more questions... or a lot of them.:D
baron162 03-16-07, 10:27 AM	no problem, i'm rather new to DMing, too :D what i've come to know from the other DMs that post here on the board, is that you shouldn't try too much to premap a storyline your players have to follow point by point, but rather prepare the surroundings, the village, the people the players can interact with. prepare stages within that storyline, that they can reach in several ways. because the players usually won't do what you planned them to do, or how they should have acted.. and this is great :) improvisation is a big aspect of DMing because of this, because you just can't prepare for every possible action the players could take. To be able to improvise well, you have to know what's happening in the area, how the NPCs react to that, and have an ok grip on the basic rules. For the fights to be cool/realistic/easy for you, you should prepare some basic combat tactics for the baddies, then you know how they react e.g. The goblins: fight in groups, swarm-attack whoever is closest, or whoever seems the weakest (or, on the other hand, who does the most damage). If the mage dies, they break and try to get away, otherwise they fight to their death, since they are far too scared of the mage. The NPC mage:casts mage armor on himself, then bolsters/buffs the goblins with some spell(s), then attacks the biggest threat with offensive spells/grease/sleep whatever.. the most important aspect i see in our d&d sessions, is that everyone has fun, both the players and the DM :D so good luck with your adventure, and if your players are nice like mine, they might help you out, too ;)
CastTiltowait 03-16-07, 02:41 PM	Just to toss my 2 cents in, for a brand new to D&D group, I would tend to err on the side of making things a bit easier for them, at least in terms of CR. If you can somehow get their levels up to 4th before they plunge into the prepared adventure you bought, that would be ideal since that way, they'd have the spells, skill levels, etc. the adventure writers expected, but the two extra players would provide some newbie-insurance. As the players themselves gain experience with the rules, then you can start tightening up to suit your group's tastes. Some gaming groups love murderously hard adventures, where one or more PC dies per session, while others are much more into the story-telling aspect of the game, and PC death is considered disruptive to the flow of the story. Most are somewhere in between. There's no best way, just the way you most enjoy. A couple ways you could bring the group up to 4th level would be to have them do a couple of short adventures. If you go to http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b you'll find a bunch of free adventures offered by WotC. The one called "A Dark and Stormy Knight" is a decent short dungeon crawl that you can toss into any low-level campaign as the party travels from one place to another. I ran my two sons thru the Basic Boxed set's adventure, and then after killing the dragon, on their way back to the town, I had them run into a storm, forcing them to take shelter and did the adventure. Several of them are more involved, but they all will generate the xp you want the players to earn to get up to 4th. Another way to speed up their progression AND to get the players to explore other aspects of D&D is to start doling out role-playing xp. The concept here is whenever you note a player doing or saying things that are driven by the character's interests (not just the players) or show they are getting into the "reality" of the game, you can give them a reward of xp. This can range from something as simple as the player descrbing his hits or misses instead of merely reporting rolls ("I lunge at the goblin, but my dagger glanced off his shield" vs. "I rolled a 14, missed") to rewarding a player for turning down the +2 greatsword in favor of keeping his masterwork longsword ("his ancestral blade"). Many years ago when I was DM'ing for a bunch of high school freshmen, I started making tally marks for each player, making a mark every time they did something that caught my roleplaying eye. Depending on their level, I gave out 25-100 xp per tally mark. Once they understood what was happening, it really helped break them out of the computer gaming mode that some of them were used to and helped foster some really interesting interactions between the party members. Baron162's got some really good advice To add a tip I've only recently figured out, adding things like sounds, etc. appropriately (too much gets annoying) can enhance moods. I found a search engine for sounds at http://www.findsounds.com/ that allows you to search for sound clips like steam hissing or various animal roars. I've also plundered through some of my computer game media files like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate to get some really good background sounds. I had to shut one off when playing w/my sons- my 4 year old, as they were going through the haunted dungeon of A Dark and Stormy Knight said "Daddy, can you turn off the sounds? My character, Regdar, isn't scared by the sounds, but I am."
Revenant07 03-16-07, 02:53 PM	If you want a really dark campaign setting to set your game in check out the Midnight campaign setting created by Fantasy Flight Games.
pukunui 03-16-07, 07:54 PM	You should also check out the Dark Sun campaign setting. You can get the 3.5 rules at www.athas.org or www.paizo.com.
Subversive 03-16-07, 08:18 PM	Hello again, well... must say i did not expect such reply.:D Can't thank you enough, both :cool: i've read the DMG to get used to some more advanced rules, and... now i must do it again... Thank you for the time spent explaining all that, i was hoping to begin a game session for my friends right this weekend, don't know if we'll make it, but i'll do my best. the adventure that i want to run is 'A Dead Man's Party'. :) Thanks baron162 for that amazing tool, it really seems exactly what i need :D thanks for the help guys, i'll be back for a few more questions... or a lot of them.:D Hm, I haven't heard of that adventure... A few more things worth noting: Low level parties need to rest up more often then high level parties. They have less resources and are more vulnerable to the threat of death. Also, as a new DM, since you have four players, I would consider disallowing players to run two characters. You have a full accompaniment of players, and adding more threatens to be unbalancing for a novice DM. It also places some players more in the spotlight then other players, and risks eclipsing those other players' actions. As an alternative, you can allow one of the players the option of choosing the leadership feat. You can also offer to maintain the other two characters as NPCs or allow the players to switch back and forth between characters (splitting that player's XP award between his two PCs). Role playing awards are great! What I generally do is modify the Ebberon action point system into an RP coupon system. I have Role Playing coupons that I print out on my computer. At the end of every session, the players anonymously vote for the best roleplayer of the night (I act as a tie breaker only). The coupons can be used to add a 1d6 roll to any 1d20 roll (a skill, check, ability check, attack, or saving throw, usually). They can also be used to stablize a dying character. It's a great way to motivate the players to get into their characters! -Steve
N3kr0 03-17-07, 03:17 PM	http://www.jimland.org/moduleworkshop/DeadMansParty.pdf Here's that adventure, and if you wouldn't mind to give some feedback on how crazy i am as a new DM to adapt such adventure :D and also if anyone would have something to say about the adventure, on what could be the best way to make that challenging, i'm searching now in the DMG for the proper changes on the zombies to match the 6 lvl2 characters. Thanks in advance. Thanks everyone for all the great and inspiring suggestions, in terms of... get them inside of the whole role-playing experience, that can be a little difficult, there is only one in my group (my best friend) who really gets into that, just like me, even before we star playing :duel: i can get really nervous, just by talking out loud :D by the way, i'm portuguese, i tried to talk in english but i speak very fast and and some descriptions are very difficult to make some of then understand, specially when they are not into the RPG fantasy, scifi... hell... why not just say... imagination.:embarrass That is why i bought the D&D Basic Set, so that they could see for them selfs that i was not joking, two of them are more into cars and nightlife, but they really surprised on that, they searched for tiles to create a more visual set for us to play with, and they really got into the character creation, the basics anyway.:) At some time, one of them told me that i was getting better at the job :dancin: and was one that i least expect anything at all. :) And to help on the text to read it out loud, and since i like to write, i carefully translated the second part of the basic set adventure. Don't like to translate just for the sake of be understood. Yes, i know that having two players using one character is not good, but once i have a adventure that can have 6 that will be amazing, everyone will have something to say and no one will be sitting back waiting and playing with their cellphones :mad: (i really hate that) there was only one actual roleplaying session, that i really enjoy it, i had to do a Stone Gargoyle steping out of a portal e saying - "Who calls forth the guardian of the Key" "what is the key word?" - something like that, had to say it in portuguese, it wouldn't be as real, to have some in Pt and some in Ing, so i tried to role play the gargoyle, doing the moves like a robot, then their faces were amazing :ayyyy!: they all started to talk because they knew that the key was needed to open the previous door, and there were runes in the floor (that unfortunately they did not use the decipher script) my friend started a theory and i had to force my self not to laugh, it was great.:D I fell in love with "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft", and before i buy the whole thing, i need to get them to lvl6 or higher. :D thanks CastTiltowait, for your time and knowledge.:) Also thanks baron162 about the tactics, i will definitely look deep into that.:) Thanks for the campaign settings guys, by the way, how different is, or what kind of changes must be made, must i learn a whole new set of rules? Many Many Thanks.:)
CastTiltowait 03-17-07, 06:35 PM	If your players really do like the tiles, etc., you may want to check out some free ones from WotC at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20041007b I personally have gotten some good maps from http://dundjinni.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=6&PN=2 or from http://rpgmapshare.com/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=19&g2_GALLERYSID=TMP_SESSION_ID_DI_NOISSES_ PMT If you take a look at my recap of RHoD, you can also see I've been getting into cardstock paper buildings to make terrain for my games http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=793120 I bought the .pdf files to print and build the stuff at http://worldworksgames.com/store/
N3kr0 03-20-07, 07:41 AM	Hello again, i would appreciate some assistance :D about that adventure "A Dead Man's Party" the first encounter is against 10 zombies: 10 Zombies (CR 1/2 each); Medium Undead; HD 2d12+3 (20, 19, 17, 16, 16, 16, 16, 15, 14, 12 hp); AC 11 (+1 Dex, +2 natural; using the encounter calculator i tried 10 monsters with 1/2 each, against 6 Pc at lvl2, and it gave me: Encounter Level: 5 Difficulty: Very Difficult obviously, the adventure it for 4 - 6lvl characters, 10 zombies against 6 - 2lvl characters would be a slaughter, the i dropped the CR of the monsters to 1/6 (less XP) but difficulty went to easy, that's good, now... how can i resolve that with the 10 zombies that still have 1/2 each? the easiest choice would be to remove some zombies, from 10 to 5... whatever. Or can i divide the hp from all 10 zombies, i would like professional help :D (yes i know i need that too)
CastTiltowait 03-20-07, 08:13 PM	drop the number of zombies. I've not read thru the module you're doing, but I assume the number of zombies isn't significant to the plot, so drop it to 6 zombies (that gives one per character) and using the calculator, this gives a "challenging" combat that supposed to represent 50% of their combats. Coming out of the basic module, something you'll need to adjust to is the lower amounts of magic in "real" D&D, the number of healing potions and magic swords in the basic module is much higher than normal. Also, when thinking through encounters, remember that most modules are assuming the party isn't stopping to sleep, rest, and "recharge" spells. If you've been reading some of the Red Hand of Doom recap threads, one of the deadly aspects of the Brindol battle is the fact that there's tough fight after tough fight, with little time in between to catch a breath, let alone recover your hit points and spells. With novice players, cut them some slack with the "reality" of their dungeon exploration, but start slowly introducing the idea that the monsters aren't simply sitting around, drinking coffee while the party attacks one room of their dungeon a day. The first time the party goes back through a "cleared" room and discover the bodies of the bad guys have been removed, they'll get freaked out trying to figure out what it means:D . When they start encountering actual guards/ambushes/bad guys READY for them, oh my!
Imatash 03-21-07, 09:09 AM	N3Kro When you are starting err on the side of easy until you get it right. With the new group, allow discussion on the rules. When our party switched (and I didn't want to as I had almost all you could have on the original ADD) to 3.5 it took a while to flesh out some interpretations. Even now after 4 years we are still finding some new things to discuss. We stop the game briefly state our opinions and then I usually make a ruling either temporary or permanently of how that rule will work. The more characters that help interpret the rules the better. We now do most of that on email. If encounters prove too easy you can add multiple opponents for the next one and then plan better for the following game day. If you start out too hard you may kill all of them the first time. Remember player characters die.....:) Imatash
Caligula 03-21-07, 09:31 AM	I concur with Imatash! Try to keep rules discussion during sessions at a minimum, but let everyone voice their opinion. Just as Imatash suggested, we also use email to even things out between sessions. Try to prepare the sessions well ahead. If you know invisible enemies will show up, read the rules for invisibility thoroughly and write a little cheat-sheet with key points to refer to. Just as an example.... You will learn as you play! Don't feel down if you are lost with a ruling. I have been DMing this D&D version since the start, and I still have to look up rules EVERY session! The system is way to complex and huge to know by heart. Everybody looks up rules sometimes, and everybody gets it wrong at times. If you made a wrong ruling and it had fatal consequences for the players, use your "time machine" and replay that event. I do. That will be your last insurance. Good luck! ...and remember Player Characters do die! ;)
Imatash 03-21-07, 10:52 AM	Oh one more thing Several of my PC's have become the expert in different areas, my son the Paladin is responsible for most of the combat type stuff while my cousin deals with most of the metamagic feats, I can quickly say what do you think to them. It doesn't mean I don't check into it later or check quickly right then and there but it certainly helps me out. For example what bonuses stack? We recently discovered the kind of gauntlets my son had didn't allow for a stack with Bull's Str. We adjusted quickly and resumed. Remember if it is good for them it is also good for the 14th Level Dwarven Vampire they routed from White Plume Mountain who has made a pact with the Dracolich nearby and has now started to hunt the hunted.... Remember Player Characters die....:) Imatash
N3kr0 03-21-07, 08:22 PM	Coming out of the basic module, something you'll need to adjust to is the lower amounts of magic in "real" D&D, the number of healing potions and magic swords in the basic module is much higher than normal. What do you mean exactly? :confused: Also, when thinking through encounters, remember that most modules are assuming the party isn't stopping to sleep, rest, and "recharge" spells. If you've been reading some of the Red Hand of Doom recap threads, one of the deadly aspects of the Brindol battle is the fact that there's tough fight after tough fight, with little time in between to catch a breath, let alone recover your hit points and spells. That is other thing that i've read but can't really follow, i've read a big part of the DMG, specially the rules chapter and the adventures, but found nothing about rest :( i remember when playing Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale and others, rest was indeed a great deal to be concerned, "can't rest or rest and then... deal with them" can't remember if there was anything about this on the "advanced rulebook" but i know i didn't really care about the rest, just saying now you'll rest before the next encounter, meaning, they would all the HP and spells available for the next encounter, and so on, for each and every tile, but i see now and yes... i read something about resting in the DMG, but not exactly as a rule, with explanation and so, how does one manage the "rest"? Try to keep rules discussion during sessions at a minimum, but let everyone voice their opinion. Just as Imatash suggested, we also use email to even things out between sessions. Try to prepare the sessions well ahead. If you know invisible enemies will show up, read the rules for invisibility thoroughly and write a little cheat-sheet with key points to refer to. Just as an example.... Thanks for the tip, that was my first thought after the first read of the DMG, to many rules to follow :D and yes, i like to prepare the adventure, as much as possible :D with that "key points to refer to" i bought the Dungeon Master's Screen, from what i've read it has lots of rules that one can quickly refer to. (and it looks cool) And again... many thanks to you all, for everything.:clap:
Holy_Beholder 03-21-07, 10:34 PM	A simple way to do this is a home made section, namely world half created. So the world is flat, below it is a massive void. Somewhere in the void are all the other planes. Have small sections of land already built and populated, maybe highly detailed for four square miles. If you go to the end of the world, there is the void. Then other four square mile pieces just keep showing up. It prevents players from having seen it before, and you from having to scram to keep up with players going odd directions. Then once it is built up, change it. Have it build up over about 400 sessions, add a square whenever you want Also do this for some of the planes, but some it is pointless, like elemental and astral planes.
CastTiltowait 03-22-07, 12:06 AM	About the magic/treasure: Somewhere I can never remember in the DMG is a chart that shows you roughly how much equipment, etc. an average PC of each level should have. If you look at it and then figure out the gp value of all the stuff the Basic adventure gives the PC's, you'll see that the players made out pretty well. You usually don't have a party of 2nd level PC's who ALL have +1 weapons and a potion or two of cure light wounds each, as well as a couple of boots of speed and magical rings in the party. In a regular low-level adventure, most encounters will generate a few hundred gp value of loot, but much of that will be in mundane items like studded leather armor or long swords that will only get 50% value if it's brought back to a willing merchant. Consumable items like potions will be found fairly often, but remember, the monsters will use the potions of healing they're carrying if given the opportunity and need. Permanent magic items like magic swords or rings are usually only found on the tougher "boss" bad guys. The rest thing is that characters only get their spells back by sleeping 8 hours at the end of the day and studying/praying when they wake up. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#rest Outside of magical healing, PC's heal their character level in hp after 8 hours of sleep (x2 if they do a full day of bed rest) (see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#healing and scroll down to Healing) What this means is that in an adventure, you as the DM (especially when dealing w/novice players) will need to think when the PC's could naturally pause and find a good place to sleep the night (or return to town, etc.) and gently encourage the players to do so. It's best if they don't even realize you're doing this so they don't feel "railroaded". This can be done easily by saying "It's getting darker, were you guys going to camp here or are you going to push on?" or asking the wizard "how many spells do you have left for today?" If you design your own adventures, don't have 3 super-tough encounters one after the other with the opportunity to recover. The Red Hand of Doom module (if you've been reading the threads here on it, you'll be familiar w/what I'm talking about) has some really hard battles, but they are usually spaced out a couple days. The Brindol battles are really tough not just because of their Challenge Rating, but because they happen one right after another so by the time you face the major "Boss" bad guy, you may be down to the last 25% of your spells, you're out of healing potions, etc.. Hope this helps
Imatash 03-22-07, 12:50 AM	For Rest Don't forget a few of these things: A character that sleeps in his medium or heavy armour is fatigued. That causes penalties. So characters will have to make decisions if they need to set up guard duty whether they sleep in their armour or not. In addition, Elves don't really sleep but they drift in a semi-dream like condition. The bottom line is spell casters are only going to be able to cast a certain amount of spells per day. Good Clerics usually gain their spells after prayers at dawn, Evil at midnight etc. You can't just sleep 8 hours and be at full strength three times in a day. Also as a house rule we allow characters to gain their hpts in one nights rest as their level plus their con bonus. This helps especially at the lower levels. I remind my characters that they are getting tired, really tired and then add fatigue penalties. I would do this the same as they are getting hungry at the appropriate times of the day. The rest period is also a great place to stop the action in a given play session. You can't always coincide with these times but it helps. ie You have just repulsed the last attack and the enemy has withdrawn across the river. It appears they are going into their camp. Now is a good time to also rest, plan for the next assault, grab something to eat/ I would then record everyone's hit points, what time it is, make sure they have clear records on their sheets of what spells they have left and tell them we will pick up here next time. Hope that helps Remember Player Characters die....:) Imatash