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| pukunui08-24-06, 04:44 PM | Hi all, By request, I'm starting my own thread to recap my group's experiences with the Red Hand of Doom adventure. We won't actually be getting to the adventure itself for a while, so I'll be posting what's happening in my campaign as a "prologue" of sorts. I'm basically using the land of Elsir Vale as its own world (I've started making a rough sketch of what's in the world beyond it), and the PCs are all natives of the vale. They will have a few adventures in the Vale to get them to the right level before the events of RHoD begin. The point of this is to give the players a sense of place and when the horde invades, they will be defending their homeland. I feel that this will result in a more satisfying experience than if they had been merely passing through the vale and got asked to help by some strangers. Helping save people and places they know well ought to have more meaning in it for the players. Cast of Characters: Berandd Stromgaarde - NG male dwarf fighter 2 Tharlas - NG male elf druid 2 Bazzanar Sternharp - CN male halfling beguiler 2 An eclectic line-up, I know. I had also intended for there to be an NPC ally (Stig Wolfstrider - CG male human barbarian 2/fighter 1) to help flesh out the party, but the players decided that they wanted to see how they'd go with just the three of them first, so poor Stiggy will have to wait. ;) We finished up the character creation process last night and got the game rolling. We play weekly on Thursday evenings, and I take turns DMing with my sister-in-law (so it won't be my turn again for another two weeks). Warning! This thread eventually will contain spoilers for not only Red Hand of Doom but also a modified Sons of Gruumsh. |
| pukunui08-24-06, 05:01 PM | I chose to start my players' characters with 1200xp. We haven't quite worked out their full backstories yet, but they all already know each other somehow. The dwarf is from Brindol, while the halfling and elf are from Dennovar (although the elf's spent a good portion of his life learning the ways of the druids from the pockets of 'druidic folk' on the southern slopes of the Giantshield Mountains). The dwarf and the elf have a friendly rivalry (like an Aussie and a Kiwi might), while the halfling is everybody's 'friend' (his player wants him to become an assassin eventually so he'll have to go from being CN to evil of some sort at some point). To get the ball rolling, Berandd the dwarf had spent the previous winter working as a mercenary escorting merchant caravans between Brindol and Dennovar. Tiring of the monotony (and with a serious travel bug), he was looking for something more exciting. The Hook: Thor Kopman, a successful half-elven merchant specializing in herbs and spices, asked his nephew Berandd (yes, you read that correctly!) if he would be interested in escorting him on one of his tours of the rural villages of Elsir Vale. Kopman is married to Berandd's aunt (a dwarf woman named Dorna). They have no children, but they run a shop in Brindol, and several times a year, Thor will leave the shop in Dorna's hands and travel to the small villages that don't get much mercantile through-traffic. He mostly sells them his herbs and spices and salt, but he'll also take along some other mundane and a few minor magic items he thinks people might like. For this reason, and because he's heard that banditry's on the rise (partly due to the onset of a drought in Elsir Vale), he requires better protection than a 1sp/day 1st level warrior mercenary can provide. Berandd accepts and recruits his elf and halfling friends to come along. Together with Thor, they travel south to Prosser, a two-day journey along a dusty country road. The journey is uneventful, but a few hours after they've arrived in Prosser, they are approached by the village's chief constable, Deillyr Starcloak, who says she was expecting a wagon full of food from Brindol which hasn't arrived and she's worried. The village sent two teenage boys to meet the wagon and no one has returned. The wagon must have been not far behind the PCs. Could they please go an investigate? Tharlas says he will do it as a favor, and the others fall in behind. Two hours later, they come upon a grim scene: three orcs and a human are attempting to steal the wagon full of food (but they're having some trouble calming the horse). There are bloodstains in the dust on the road and the bodies of the wagon's guards, the two teenage villagers, and two dead orcs are piled to one side. |
| pukunui08-24-06, 05:11 PM | We roll initiative. My baddies don't roll so well - the orcs are sort of in the middle while the human (sorceror 1) is last. Tharlas calls for the grass by the side of the road to rise up and entangle the orcs and the human. Only one orc manages to avoid the grasping strands of grass, but he can't move very fast. None of the orcs has a ranged weapon, so they are unable to threaten the PCs. The sorceror casts shield on himself. Berandd and Tharlas proceed to pepper the orcs with arrows from their shortbows while Bazzanar (Baz for short) whelms one of the orcs into unconsciousness. Tharlas' wolf companion, Leanar, goes to attack the human sorceror. The sorceror tries to shoot the wolf but misses and the wolf gives him a lethal bite that drops him into the negative. Meanwhile the others have dispatched the two remaining orcs. No contest thanks to that entanglement spell. It is agreed that the human should be taken alive, so Tharlas goes and stabilizes him, they truss him up and throw him on the back of the food wagon along with the orc that was magically knocked out. They search the bodies but decide to leave them by the side of the road. They also notice the tracks leading off to the west -- they will come back and investigate these later as they figure the tracks just lead back to the bandits' lair. Upon returning to the village, a much-relieved Deillyr Starcloak (as chief constable as well as a host of other things) takes the prisoners into her custody and orders the food to be distributed. She also tells the PCs that a burial party will be sent to recover the bodies and she goes off to tell the mothers of the dead boys. There will be much wailing in the village tonight. Thor tells them he didn't have much luck selling anything because the villagers had spent most of their money to get the food from Brindol. He was kind and gave some salt and other things away, but he's ready to move on to the hamlet of Dauth once the PCs have finished helping the villagers of Prosser. And that's where we ended last night. To be continued in two weeks. Comments? |
| Lord_Bahamut08-24-06, 06:43 PM | Looks like you've started out the campaign very well, pukunui. I like it. Y'know, this has made me want to start my own thread, but I'm worried it might clog up the board with RHoD threads. |
| pukunui08-24-06, 07:15 PM | Looks like you've started out the campaign very well, pukunui. I like it. Y'know, this has made me want to start my own thread, but I'm worried it might clog up the board with RHoD threads. LOL. Sounds like maybe there should be a sub-section in D&D Adventures just for RHoD threads ... ;) Seriously, though -- I love reading about other people's experiences, and I think it's better to make your own thread than try to hijack someone else's. The more the merrier! |
| Lord_Bahamut08-25-06, 01:25 AM | LOL. Sounds like maybe there should be a sub-section in D&D Adventures just for RHoD threads ... ;)Totally. That would be really cool!! Seriously, though -- I love reading about other people's experiences, and I think it's better to make your own thread than try to hijack someone else's. The more the merrier!Yeah, it kinda sucks when you're talking and someone else takes over. |
| pukunui08-25-06, 01:50 AM | Totally. That would be really cool!! It would be totally awesome ... but what's the likelihood that it'll happen? :( |
| Lord_Bahamut08-25-06, 09:12 PM | It would be totally awesome ... but what's the likelihood that it'll happen? :(Let's roll a d% to find out!! (rolls) ...1?:( |
| pukunui08-25-06, 09:15 PM | :confused:Let's roll a d% to find out!! (rolls) ...1?:(As one of my players loves to say in this situation: "Faff!" |
| Lord_Bahamut08-25-06, 09:17 PM | As one of my players loves to say in this situation: "Faff!"lol, that's good.:clap: |
| pukunui08-29-06, 12:42 AM | So in preparation for session #2 next week, I need to develop some sort of contingency plan as the "Unearthing the Past" module does not take into account the fact that the players might not do things according to plan. For instance, the module involves two brothers, both followers of Wee Jas, who are searching some old dwarven ruins. They've hired a bunch of orcs to help them, and of course, both the brothers and the orcs need feeding, so the younger brother (a 1st lvl sorceror) has gone and found a wagon laden with food headed for the village of Prosser. He killed the guards and was just getting the horse calmed when the PCs showed up ... but they didn't kill him. They just captured him and one of the orcs. The adventure assumes the PCs would then immediately follow the tracks back to the ruins, but my players didn't do that. So obviously the other guy is going to notice his brother's absence and the lack of food. I was thinking of having the older brother (a 3rd lvl cleric) try to bust his little bro out of jail, but what if the PCs decide to guard their prisoner themselves? I'd prefer it if they encountered the cleric in the ruins. Well, I suppose if the PCs decide to guard the younger brother, the other one could just scout the area and find out what happened, then head back to the ruins to plan some sort of trap. But if they don't guard the prisoner, then maybe he gets freed in the middle of the night and they'll have to encounter him again later on ... Here's a question, though -- if the PCs defeat an opponent without killing him and I give them XP for doing so, if they then encounter that opponent again, do I give them more XP? If so, do I give them less than before because the second encounter would be less of a learning experience? Just curious ... Thoughts please. I've got just over a week to plan. |
| Caligula08-30-06, 02:24 AM | XP rewards should only be given out when you feel they have overcome the problem. Just keeping the bad guy a prisoner is in my opinion not overcoming the problem. Giving him over to the authorities, or punishing him for his crime - which was indeed murder - would be overcoming the problem. You shouldnt be giving out xp twice for defeating the same enemy. |
| pukunui08-30-06, 04:13 AM | XP rewards should only be given out when you feel they have overcome the problem. Just keeping the bad guy a prisoner is in my opinion not overcoming the problem. Giving him over to the authorities, or punishing him for his crime - which was indeed murder - would be overcoming the problem.They have given him over to the authorities in Prosser, but they might not trust the authorities to keep the prisoner safe and may want to guard him themselves. I don't know. They haven't discussed it. But that's what I would do if I was playing ... You shouldnt be giving out xp twice for defeating the same enemy.So what do I tell them after defeating someone they've fought before? "Sorry guys, I gave you XP for this guy before so you don't get any more." Or would you suggest not giving them XP the first time around? "Sorry guys, you don't get any XP for fighting this guy because ... uh ... because you just don't." Just wondering. |
| Caligula08-30-06, 09:39 AM | I have never encountered this problem. If you have to give out xp rewards twice for the same enemy, I guess they never overcome the problem in the first case. |
| pukunui08-30-06, 11:28 AM | I haven't either. It's just something I've often wondered about ... |
| Caligula08-30-06, 01:13 PM | I only deal out xp rewards when there is no hesitation what so ever that they have resolved a problem. If there is any doubt, you should refrain from giving out xp. Xp is a bonus for a completed mission. It should only be given out after the mission is completed, or even after the adventure is completed. That way you wont encounter the problems that you are referring to. Dont give out xp´s too early in an adventure. If you do, this problem will arise. For exampel, RHoD is an adventure from 5th-10th level approximately. The adventure module has 5 chapters. Its written so that each chapter raises the ELs a little bit. Therefore its perfect to hand out XPs at the closure of each chapter. If instead handing out XP after each encounter, it would be a mess. Enemies that escape one encounter to return to fight another day might be counted twice or why not even thrice. So stick to conservative orthodox style when handing out XP. Its better. |
| StoneStokes08-30-06, 03:31 PM | I generally agree with Caligula with a few exceptions: It is entirely possible to award XP for the same enemy multiple times. Usually this should only happen with recurring villains (which are a great tool in all adventures of all media). How many hundred times did Superman do battle with and defeat Lex Luthor? Were he in an RPG, he should be awarded each time. Just because the prison guards are inept, or Lex gets help from other (evil) Kryptonians doesn't mean that Superman should not get credit each and every time he defeats the folically challenged genius. In game terms, a solution to a problem (in this case an encounter) is something immediate. Many DMs will give XP awards for successfully negotiating diplomatically past a monster. In fact, the game designers even suggest this. But I do agree that if you capture a prisoner, and tie them up, but they escape before you can interrogate them because their Escape Artist check exceeds your Use Rope check, then no XP for you! If you interrogated them first, then they escaped, I'd probably give a reasonable XP award. If you capture an enemy, and turn them over to the local baron (an epic fighter), but he can't hold the prisoner, well now its his problem not yours. The core rules give XP awards for ENCOUNTERING traps, so it doesn't seem too much a stretch for awarding XP for even running away from monsters. I would never suggest awarding full XP for retreating, but when my players run away from an obviously too-tough encounter, I award them XP for that (usually about 1/4, but it depends on the encounter and how tough it is). They can earn the rest later if they return. Heroes that know when to run away should be rewarded. Note that I don't award XP for running away unless the EL is 4+ levels higher than the PCL. The above are suggestions only; not hard-and-fast rules. Cheers, StoneStokes |
| pukunui08-30-06, 04:31 PM | I don't have an issue with handing out XP during a rest period after each encounter. Mathematically, whether you hand out XP in little chunks spread out through a campaign or all at once at certain junctures makes no difference. I also don't see how handing it out more often would get messy. Caligula, could you please explain? As for the particular prisoner situation ... you'll all have to wait until next week (it's my sis-in-law's turn to DM tonight) to find out how it all pans out, but I will reiterate that the sorceror guy has been handed over to the local authorities. He hasn't just been tied up and thrown in a corner of the PC's camp. They've gone back to the small village that asked them for help and the sorceror (and the surviving orc) are in the village jail. My PCs will probably want to interrogate them, but other than that, they'll probably just leave them there ... however, the sorceror's brother most likely won't. If he can break his brother free, then then PCs will probably have to face the sorceror again, and not because of their own failure to keep him captive. However, because this has gotten a bit tricky, I might just rule that the older brother decides to let the younger brother cool his heels for a while and will break him out later. Although he is a murderer, so the villagers will probably want to hang him or something. Sigh ... Plus, I already gave out XP for killing two orcs, capturing the third orc and the sorceror, and taking the food wagon back to the waiting villagers. Perhaps I could just (in my head) calculate that they only got XP for defeating the orcs and that any "extra" XP could be a story award for getting the food wagon. Then I'll give them full XP for defeating the sorceror should they face him (and defeat him) again later on. |
| Caligula09-04-06, 04:27 AM | Well its quite simple. You wait until the mission/adventure is finished - then you hand out XP rewards to the PCs. This is the way the system was designed to be used. If you hand out XPs during or in the midle of an adventure, then the problems that you have brought up here will be highlighted as the DM must decide wether a problem has been resolved or not. Most times we wont really know until the adventure is over, now will we? Stone Stokes has some points, but I disagree with the notion that PCs fighting a Major Bad Guy in an adventure should receive XPs several times over for fighting the same guy. They should only receive XP when they have defeated him in my opinion. As goes for traps, the reason you receive XP for just encountering a trap, even if you fail to beat it, is because you will understand how it works and it will help you in the future. Its a mechanical repetitive object and should not be compared to the XP awarded for defeating living opponents. I only award XP for opponents/missions/tasks/story awards that I am certain the players have achieved/resolved. XP should always be considered an award, not an automatic right of the players. So the best way is to hand it out at the end of an adventure, or in bigger adventures that rely on level progression - after each chapter or part has been resolved. RHoD has 5 chapters and is written for 5th-10th level. Hand out XP once after each chapter. Works perfectly! |
| pukunui09-04-06, 07:14 PM | If you hand out XPs during or in the midle of an adventure, then the problems that you have brought up here will be highlighted as the DM must decide wether a problem has been resolved or not. Most times we wont really know until the adventure is over, now will we?I don't have a problem with giving out XP after each encounter. Mathematically, it makes no difference. I work out how much XP each encounter is worth and divide by 3 as part of my initial preparation anyway. Well its quite simple. You wait until the mission/adventure is finished - then you hand out XP rewards to the PCs. This is the way the system was designed to be used.I don't know about that. The DMG talks about handing XP out either at the end of a given session or at the beginning of the next one. It doesn't ever (that I can see) recommend that you wait until the end of an entire story arc before handing out XP. Also, it makes more sense to me to hand out XP in smaller chunks -- that way you never have the problem mentioned in the PHB concerning PCs who earn enough XP to gain more than one level at a time. If you wait until the end of a big long adventure, they could potentially lose some of the XP they'd earned if it goes over the one-level-at-at-time limit, whereas if it's handed out in smaller chunks, they'll end up keeping it all and might even level up more than once. You mentioned before that you only give out XP when you're absolutely sure the PCs have overcome a problem. At the time, I had thought they'd overcome the problem by taking the sorceror prisoner ... it wasn't until later, when I was sitting down to write my recap, that I realized that the module was too static and that the cleric really ought to go in search of his brother. However, I have since come up with a different solution ... Aldin Trember, the lvl 3 cleric of Wee Jas (and the BBEG for this module), told his younger brother, Marsem Trember, the lvl 1 sorceror, to go looking for food and not to come back empty-handed. Because he is preoccupied with his investigation of the dwarven ruins, Aldin just dismisses his brother's long absence as a sign of his ineptitude at doing anything useful, such as finding food. He won't bother going in search of Marsem until the remaining food runs out (which won't be for several days), and I'm confident that the PCs will find Aldin and confront him before then -- in fact, they're planning on going back and following the tracks the next day, so it should all work out fine. We can stop arguing about XP awards now and get on with the story ... well, come Thursday we can get on with the story anyway. ;) |
| Arilon09-04-06, 09:56 PM | Well its quite simple. You wait until the mission/adventure is finished - then you hand out XP rewards to the PCs. This is the way the system was designed to be used. Where do you find this? I know of nowhere in the rules or designers comments that this is the case. If you hand out XPs during or in the midle of an adventure, then the problems that you have brought up here will be highlighted as the DM must decide wether a problem has been resolved or not. Most times we wont really know until the adventure is over, now will we? I'm a pretty good DM. Frankly, I have a pretty good idea if they have overcome the opponent. And, sometimes, there are things they do where they may indeed overcome or defeat an opponent twice. Certainly, combat is one way. But, if by chance, they defeat a monster/NPC in combat and put him away, I'd give them XP for that. And, if advancing the story line means having that person get out so they can face him again, they can get XP a 2nd time. It is cearly plausible for them to overcome the same opponent multiple times and in different circumstances. While I wouldn't automatically give them XP, I certainly wouldn't automatically rule it out, either. Part of being a DM means judging these types of things. I only award XP for opponents/missions/tasks/story awards that I am certain the players have achieved/resolved. XP should always be considered an award, not an automatic right of the players. Sure, it's not a right, but at the same time, the DM has a responsbility to help ensure that people have a good time, and part of that is earning XP so their characters can grow. The DM has a lot of influence in that regard, and while XP is not a right, it certainly is a reasonable expectation in most, not all, circumstance. I give out combat XP at the end of each fight. Some folks will earn XP to level at that time, others won't. Fine with me. It has *never* been a problem in may game for the nearly 20 years I have been a DM. Every group is different - this works for our group. YMMV. Mark |
| Caligula09-05-06, 02:49 AM | PHB 3.5 p.58: "The DM assigns XP to the characters at the end of each adventure based on what they have accomplished." (my underscoring) Players Handbook 3.5 continues: "If for some reason a character cant practice or train for an extended time, the DM may reduce XP awards or even cause the character to loose experience points." What the DMG says about after/before sessions is only a suggestion to speed up play and has nothing to do with the rules. Its a suggestion only. A hypothesis. PHB clearly defines how/when XPs should be awarded. And even states that if the PCs dont take time to train and practice, they should be punished for it. RHoD is written for 5th-10th level characters. That is, they should level 5 times during the 5 chapters. Each chapter that follows the other is tougher, so each chapter should see a level progression takes place IF the players have succeeded in being awarded sufficient XPs. |
| pukunui09-05-06, 03:56 AM | I don't want to argue about this any more, so I'll have the final word (if you want to keep arguing, please make a new thread and leave mine for my story): I think what's written in the PHB is just as much a suggestion as what's in the DMG. It's really up to each individual DM to determine how often to award XP. I'm fine with awarding it after each encounter. Now, on with the story ... Come Thursday, we will find out what fate awaits the human sorceror, Marsem Trember, and his one surviving orc minion. Will the villagers have their revenge on these would-be bandits? What were they really up to anyway? Will the PCs interrogate Marsem and find out what his brother and he have been doing in the old dwarven ruins? Will the PCs agree to risk life and limb to clear out the bandits and make the village of Prosser safe again?To find out the answers to these questions and more, tune in again this Thursday when Berandd the mercenary dwarf, Tharlas the elven druid, and Baz the beguiling halfling continue their nowhere-near-epic quest! ;) |
| pukunui09-07-06, 05:02 PM | The adventure continues ... Characters Baz - halfling beguiler 2 Berandd - dwarf fighter 2 Tharlas - elf druid 2 Leanar - Tharlas' wolf companion Tharlas, Baz, and Berandd decide not to bother with the human mage they captured and instead head 5 miles back up the road to follow the tracks they saw. This leads them 3.5 miles into the wilderness, where they come across a narrow cave entrance. Berandd with his darkvision is able to see movement in the cave and some crossbow bolts coming whizzing out of the darkness. The brave heroes go prone and Tharlas strikes a sunrod so he can see into the cave. He gets a quick glimpse of an orc head before another bolt flies at him. Baz casts obscuring mist in the mouth of the cave and then mage armor on the wolf. The companions rush in to the cave, Tharlas in the lead. There are two orcs hiding around a bend in the cave, both armed with light crossbows. The one in front shoots at Tharlas and misses. Tharlas retaliates but to no avail. The others come through the mist. The first orc drops his crossbow, hefts his greataxe and takes a mighty swing at Tharlas, slicing into the elf druid for a hefty 14 damage (taking him down to 4 hp). Berandd comes to the rescue, cutting down the orc with a mighty swing of his own greataxe. The other orc turns to run, but Tharlas tells Leanar to sic him! The wolf catches up and bites the fleeing orc. Berandd follows as well and severs the second orc's spine with an AoO as it runs past him. The heroes search the cave, where they find evidence that a large number of people have been camping in here (bedrolls, blankets, discarded food, etc.). They debate whether to rest before going on, but they eventually decide to keep exploring. Tharlas heals himself. At the back of the cave, they find a hewn stone corridor leading to a stone door. They listen at the door but hear nothing, although Leanar the wolf gets her hackles up ... Berandd recognizes the craftsmanship as dwarven. He cautiously opens the door and sees a room full of crates, boxes, and barrels. There are also 4 orcs in here, but they fail to hear the door open, so the heroes get the jump on them. Berandd acts first, taking yet another orc down with his greataxe (he's been using Power Attack and getting lucky). Then Leanar lunges forward and tears the throat out of another orc, so that's two down in the surprise round. I forget exactly what happened next, but one orc got whelmed by Baz then hit by Tharlas so it fell unconscious and was later CdGed. The other orc eventually fell but not before he scored a hit on Berandd. Our heroes then search the crates and boxes -- lots of interesting mundane items: rope, crossbow bolts, lamp oil, axe hafts, spikes, etc. Nothing super-cool though. They then elect to continue on through a side-door. It leads out into a 50' hallway. 30' down, the hallway branches off to the right and left. They go down and investigate. To the right, the hall ends in rubble about 10' down. To the left it continues for about 45' before turning left. Straight ahead is a barred door. They decide to check out the door. Baz checks for traps and finds none so he heads through and fails his spot check ... A ghoul leaps out at him from the darkness and claws and bites him. Baz manages to ward off paralysis and ghoul fever with a well-rolled Fort save. Unfortunately, the ghoul rolls poorly on initiative, while Berandd wins it (again). He races around to flank the creature (which looks vaguely dwarf-like, I might add), uses Power Attack, and gets a stunning 20 damage (max on the d12 + 4 Str bonus + 4 for two-handed Power Attack), which takes the ghoul down (it only had 14 hp). Needless to say, I was beginning to get a bit frustrated with Berandd killing everything with one hit. I knew I should have advanced the ghoul (or perhaps even replaced it with a ghast). They explore the room, which is circular, and find two dwarven coffins in an alcove. Although Baz wants to crack them open, Berandd insists on respecting the dead and Tharlas is worried there may be more of the creepy creatures about ... They decide they're a bit worn and need some rest, so they're going to head back outside, but as they pass through the crossroads in the hall, they hear a strange sound -- what sounds like chains rattling on metal coming from around the corner down the long hallway. Berandd goes to investigate. He finds a 30' square room with a shaft in the middle. He peers down the shaft to see a platform with 4 orcs on it slowly rising towards him. Rather than try to shoot them, he runs back to report to the others, and they decide to hide in the tomb room (taking the door bar with them so they can't be locked in). They hear the 4 orcs come down the hallway and then make lots of noise when they discover their dead companions in the store room. They then hear one of the orcs go running back towards the shaft room and then ... We had to stop because it was 10pm, which is work-week bedtime for my three players. (I am a stay-at-home dad, so I don't have a bedtime really ... even if I did, though, I'd be willing to sacrifice a bit of sleep one night a week to get a good bit of game time in -- sadly, though, my players are not that committed ...). EDIT: I had a thought that if, next session, they can stop the one orc who went running back down the hall toward the shaft room, then the moving platform will stay up at the top level, and then the creatures below will be stuck down there ... giving the PCs as much time as they need in order to rest and recuperate before investigating the deeper levels of the dungeon. They'll just have to handle the 1 orc running away and the 3 in the storeroom blocking their exit ... but the way things have gone so far, they'll dispatch all 4 with barely a scratch to themselves. But it'll make it easier for me to keep the BBEG in the right place ... I'd really rather not have to have him come up and investigate what's been going on ... exploring an empty dungeon is something of an anticlimax, but it just seems like bad storytelling if I just left him down there despite all the goings on above ... so having him get stuck down below works pretty well. I might even help the PCs a bit by having the orc have trouble getting the platform to go down again or something. |
| pukunui09-07-06, 05:55 PM | I may be running another session next week ... my sister-in-law finished her last module and has yet to find something to do next. I'm hoping she isn't prepared so I can host the game again because we left off in the middle of an exciting bit. I'm definitely going to have to advance some of the baddies lurking deeper in the dwarven ruins. This is has just been too easy for the PCs so far, despite the fact that there are only 3 of them (not counting the bad ass wolf with her 50' movement speed!). I realize that this "Unearthing the Past" module is 3.0 and aimed for 1st level PCs, but I figured it would be ok because there are only 3 of them in my game, even if they are all 2nd level. But no, it's been a cakewalk for them. They mowed through 6 orcs and a ghoul this past session. They all took some hits (except for the wolf), and Tharlas got knocked down to 4 hps, but still ... So I'd like some help here. In the module, there are 6 more orcs, a choker, and the BBEG. I think I'll leave the orcs alone -- they make for nice fodder. The choker, however, I'd like to advance. How many hit dice should I advance the choker? I don't think I want to increase its size, so somewhere in the 4-6 HD range (it starts with 3 HD and the CR won't change so long as I don't advance it by more than 3 more HD), but I'm not sure what would be best. I'm inclined to go with the full 6 HD (it can go higher, but then it becomes medium size, and I don't want to do that). I'd like to give it at least enough hit points that it could survive a killer blow from that killer dwarf ... *grumble grumble* The BBEG: Aldin Trember, cleric 3 of Wee Jas. I've already increased him one level (he was level 2 to begin with). I'm now thinking that he should be level 4 or 5, though. What do other people think? Also, he's got the Death domain, which allows him to use a Death Touch once per day. I don't really want to have him use it in case it kills one of the PCs ... but I'm concerned that that might not be roleplaying him properly. Should I have him try to use it if an opportunity arises? What if he only tried to use it on the wolf - would that be metagaming? |
| pukunui09-08-06, 04:35 AM | OK, so unless someone comes up with a convincing argument for me not to do so, I've decided on the following advancements: 1) The choker will advance to 6 HD. It's CR stays at 2, and it is no more lethal than before, but it has twice as many hit points, so it should stay alive longer, especially if the Power Attacking dwarf gets lucky again. 2) Aldin Trember will advance to a 5th level cleric. This will significantly increase his CR. He should be a serious challenge to the party. He's got a +1 heavy mace and full plate armor and a heavy shield (so his AC is 20). He's got spells such as cause fear, bestow curse, summon monster III, and death knell prepared ... Should be a major BBEG for them. Can't wait to throw him against them. This should give the players quite a challenge and make up for the ease with which they chopped up all the orcs and the ghoul ... plus, there are still some more orcs for them to slice through like butter, so it won't be ALL potential PC death. ;) |
| gamertall09-12-06, 02:01 PM | I think that you should not increase the BBEG cleric so high. Make him 4th level instead of fifth. There is a chance that the 6 HD Choker could be a REAL problem for them if they roll badly. With its Climb speed, Quickness power, and reach...without some Climb skill of the party's own and some ranged firepower, the party may be hurting bad. I make a rule never to have a classed NPC with a CR higher than twice the party's individual character level. I made that mistake throwing a 4th lvl Druid as a BBEG against a 1st level party. It was no real contest for the Druid, and I dropped two of the PCs in within 3 rounds of combat. |
| pukunui09-12-06, 04:17 PM | Gamertall - Thank you for taking the time to actually respond. I'm not convinced the 6HD choker will be any harder than if I'd left it at 4HD. All the advancement really did was give the choker more HP. I'm hoping that the dwarf will not be able to kill it with one hit the way he's been killing practically everything else I've thrown at the party. I'm not out to kill the dwarf, but it would be more fun if my monsters actually got to do something instead of just being XP fodder or something ... There's also a good chance that they won't even encounter the choker at all -- it's in a sort of out of the way area. Also, they have got plenty of ranged firepower, so that's not a problem. As for the cleric, I can see where you're coming from on that one. He may be a bit too powerful at level 5 for them. I'll downgrade him back to level 4, but I might add some more orcs (there are 2 guarding him) or maybe increase them to level 2 warriors? If I had the cleric at level 4 and the 2 orcs at level 2, that would keep it at EL 6, wouldn't it? Also, what are your thoughts on the cleric's Death Touch ability? |
| snowcone09-12-06, 10:51 PM | The death touch ability can be a little hairy. My player clerics that have this ability usually have deathwatch up. This means that someone is going to have death touch used on them if they show up on deathwatch. 5d6 for level 2 right? PC's is pretty rough. 4d6 is little better, but a bad roll and someone is dead. I'd keep the cleric at level 3, he still has hold person, and add some more fodder (orcs). |
| pukunui09-12-06, 11:31 PM | DEATH DOMAIN Granted Power: You may use a death touch once per day. Your death touch is a supernatural ability that produces a death effect. You must succeed on a melee touch attack against a living creature (using the rules for touch spells). When you touch, roll 1d6 per cleric level you possess. If the total at least equals the creature’s current hit points, it dies (no save).If I have the cleric at level 4, that means his death touch is 4d6, right? He could easily kill any one of the PCs, who are all level 2, with that. Would it be terrible metagaming on my part if the BBEG only tried to use his death touch on the druid's wolf companion? She's a bit more expendable (seeing as how the druid just has to meditate for 24 hours to get another one ...). It's only a 1/day ability so it's not like he's going to be attempting to use death touch on all 3 PCs and the wolf. I'd keep the cleric at level 3, he still has hold person, and add some more fodder (orcs).The cleric was originally only level 2 (the "Unearthing the Past" module was designed for 1st level characters), but so far the adventure has been far too easy, so I wanted to have an extra tough BBEG to shake them up a bit. They'll more than likely kill both orcs, even though I've beefed them up to lvl 2 warriors, before the cleric even shows up (according to the module, he has to make a listen check to hear the fighting, and if he succeeds, he shows up 2 rounds later - more than enough time for Berandd the dwarf to slaughter both orcs), so it'll probably be 3 (+ the wolf) on 1. Oh, here's an unrelated question: does the druid have to make a handle animal check every time he wants his wolf companion to do anything? Also, would the wolf roll initiative separately or would it act on the druid's turn? My player's basically been treating the wolf as a separate character (she rolls its own initiative and then just decides what it's going to do as though it were a PC). I don't think that's how it's supposed to work, but I'm not all that familiar with animal companions. Can someone please straighten me out? BTW, the next session is tomorrow night (7:30 NZT). Two sessions in a row! :w00t: Hopefully, they'll finish this module and level up tomorrow. Then it's on to the "Dry Spell" module ... and then Sons of Gruumsh. |
| gamertall09-13-06, 12:01 PM | Originally posted by pukunui Oh, here's an unrelated question: does the druid have to make a handle animal check every time he wants his wolf companion to do anything? Also, would the wolf roll initiative separately or would it act on the druid's turn? My player's basically been treating the wolf as a separate character (she rolls its own initiative and then just decides what it's going to do as though it were a PC). I don't think that's how it's supposed to work, but I'm not all that familiar with animal companions. Can someone please straighten me out? Yes, the druid has to make a Handle Animal check with his Wolf companion each time he wants the companion to perform a Trick. The plus is that it is a Free Action to do so. The Wolf companion will act on the Druid's turn. The only time you would use the Wolf's initiative modifier is when it is doing something without the Druid around and gets in combat on its own while executing a Trick such as Guard and the like where the Druid can leave it alone to perform its duty. Remember, Attack is a trick for the animal companion and requires a Handle Animal check from its owner to execute the action, ergo it acts on the Druid's initiative. If you want to determine if the Wolf is flat-footed at the beginning of a round, just add its initiative modifier to the Druid's initiative dice roll for determination. If you may be worried about the dwarf dropping the evil Cleric quick and whether the Death Touch ability will kill a PC, then give the evil Cleric a level of Fighter or Warrior to beef up hit points or better yet, give the dwarf a taste of his own medicine and give the Cleric a level of Barbarian and let the Cleric Rage all over him.:evillaugh |
| pukunui09-13-06, 04:12 PM | Yes, the druid has to make a Handle Animal check with his Wolf companion each time he wants the companion to perform a Trick. The plus is that it is a Free Action to do so. The Wolf companion will act on the Druid's turn. The only time you would use the Wolf's initiative modifier is when it is doing something without the Druid around and gets in combat on its own while executing a Trick such as Guard and the like where the Druid can leave it alone to perform its duty. Remember, Attack is a trick for the animal companion and requires a Handle Animal check from its owner to execute the action, ergo it acts on the Druid's initiative. If you want to determine if the Wolf is flat-footed at the beginning of a round, just add its initiative modifier to the Druid's initiative dice roll for determination.Sweet as. Thanks for that, Gamertall. I'll let my player know during tonight's session. EDIT: I see where it talks about handling animal companions, but I don't see where it says they have to act on the druid's turn. Is that written somewhere? I just want to know in case my player challenges me. I suppose the idea, though, is that the animal companion is an extension of the druid, not an independent character ... If you may be worried about the dwarf dropping the evil Cleric quick and whether the Death Touch ability will kill a PC, then give the evil Cleric a level of Fighter or Warrior to beef up hit points or better yet, give the dwarf a taste of his own medicine and give the Cleric a level of Barbarian and let the Cleric Rage all over him.:evillaughThat's an interesting suggestion, but I think I'll stop fiddling with my BBEG. I'll just leave him as a cleric 4 with two warrior 2 henchmen and see what happens. If it turns out to be a mistake, I'll learn from it. No one's said anything about whether or not it would be terrible metagaming on my part to have the cleric target the wolf with his death touch ability. |
| snowcone09-13-06, 05:49 PM | Well technically it would be. But, in the interest of preserving a PC's life I think we can let it slide. When you zot the wolf it might make the druid more cautious with future animal companions. |
| pukunui09-13-06, 05:55 PM | Well technically it would be. But, in the interest of preserving a PC's life I think we can let it slide. When you zot the wolf it might make the druid more cautious with future animal companions. Choice. Cheers for that, mate ... I mean ... cool, thanks, man (must ... resist ... talking like a New Zealander! ;)) |
| gamertall09-14-06, 01:26 PM | Originally posted by pukunui No one's said anything about whether or not it would be terrible metagaming on my part to have the cleric target the wolf with his death touch ability. No, it would not be terrible metagaming, but why would the Cleric target the wolf in the first place? If the wolf is the one who trips his guards and the Cleric sees this, then I could argue for him using the Death Touch on the wolf. As for whether the animal companion has to act on the Durid's turn.....the Druid has to first succeed at a Handle Animal check before the animal companion can act. Ergo, it would need a command from the Druid to act in combat or for anything else. |
| pukunui09-14-06, 04:17 PM | No, it would not be terrible metagaming, but why would the Cleric target the wolf in the first place? If the wolf is the one who trips his guards and the Cleric sees this, then I could argue for him using the Death Touch on the wolf.Sorry, I should have been clearer. I wasn't implying that he would go out of his way to use Death Touch on the wolf. What I meant was, if he was going to use it at all, he'd use it on the wolf should he get the opportunity - as in, if the wolf is trying to savage him, he'll callously brush it aside while activating his ability and sending it along its merry way to wherever animals go when they die ... ;) But if the wolf doesn't attack him, he won't try to use Death Touch on any of the PCs. As for whether the animal companion has to act on the Durid's turn.....the Druid has to first succeed at a Handle Animal check before the animal companion can act. Ergo, it would need a command from the Druid to act in combat or for anything else.Thanks. Yes, I did eventually figure this out and explained it all to my player. She was fine with it all and picked out the 7 tricks she wanted her wolf to know. So we're all good. Last night's session went well. I'll post the recap shortly. |
| pukunui09-14-06, 05:09 PM | And so the adventure continues ... Last session ended with Tharlas, Berandd, and Baz hiding in the tomb room where they'd killed the ghoul, cut off from the exit by some orcs that had come up on a lift in another room. The orcs had discovered the bodies of their comrades in the supply room, and one had come running back down the hall. This session began with the trio deciding to kill the orcs. This was not at all difficult for them. Tharlas set his wolf on the one that went running back towards the lift and Berandd cut him down. The orcs in the supply room consistently failed their spot and listen checks, so were completely oblivious to the events transpiring in the hallway, despite the fact that the door was wide open ... Baz covered a 10ft square area of the hall with caltrops because they figured the orcs would come charging at them. But both Tharlas and Baz downed an orc each with their ranged weapons and the third orc disappeared off to the left in the supply room. Berandd attempted to taunt the orc but to no avail, so he tiptoed through the caltrops and then rushed into the supply room. He got hit with a crossbow bolt from the waiting orc but closed quickly and cleaved it in twain with a whopping 50-odd crit damage. Everything in the supply room is now fairly sprinkled with blood. Their way out once again clear, the trio decide they need some rest. It's dark outside by now, so a good night's sleep is what is needed. Tharlas sleeps just outside the cave entrance, while the other two stay just inside it. Baz, however, has ideas. During his watch, he sneaks back into the ruins without waking the others up. He goes back to the tomb room and cracks open the two coffins that Berandd warned him not to touch out of respect for the dwarven dead. Each tomb contains the bones of a long-dead dwarf and a greataxe blade of masterwork quality. Baz steals the blades, seals up the coffins again and sneaks back to bed. In the morning, he convinces Berandd that he just found them lying around somewhere, but Tharlas is suspicious. Without telling the dwarf, he goes and has a poke around the tomb room and finds evidence that the coffins have been tampered with. He chooses not to tell the dwarf, though. [This was a fun little bit of roleplaying on my players' part.] Next our brave heroes decide to descend into the depths of the ruins. They take the lift down one level and explore. There's not much on this level as two out of three corridors end in rubble. The third corridor leads to an empty room - empty, that is, except for two very decayed and possibly even gnawed-on orc bodies. This raises the team's hackles but they find nothing so head back towards the lift. That's when the choker strikes. Crawling after them on the ceiling, it shoots its rubbery tentacle arms down at the wolf and wins a grapple check. The wolf is now being strangled. The trio is quite surprised, but the choker can't defend itself while it's strangling the wolf, so they get a few ranged hits off. The choker successfully drags the wolf back around a corner, further strangling it, but the heroes follow, shooting at it some more. The wolf eventually succeeds in freeing itself at 0 hp (the wolf got a natural 20 on its grapple check, whereas my choker got a natural 0 ... go figure). It limps off to lick its wounds while the elf, dwarf, and halfling continue to attack this strange rubbery creature. Berandd tries to taunt it but gives up when he realizes it doesn't understand him. The choker attacks the nearest target, Tharlas, a couple of times, slapping the poor elf druid around a bit (he goes down to 4 hp, cures himself back up to 9, then gets slapped down to 4 again). Baz tries to put the creature to sleep but his spell has no effect whatsoever. [Baz's player figured out what it was, but he didn't take into account that I might have given it some extra HD :evillaugh]. He then tries to whelm it into unconsciousness and eventually succeeds. It falls from the ceiling into a crumpled heap on the floor and Berandd delivers a coup de grace. The party is bruised and battered (not to mention strangled), so they decide to rest for 8 hours here on the second level. [Resting is so overrated ... ;) Seriously, though, this module really doesn't take into account that the PCs might want to rest for extended periods of time. What the BBEG and his minions are doing during this time, I have no idea. Continuing on as though nothing strange is happening? It's been more than a day since the BBEG sent his brother out and the guy hasn't come back, nor have the 4 orcs who just went up the lift, which is still up at the top level. The BBEG and his minions are effectively trapped down below. The PCs could theoretically just leave them to starve ... I suppose I could just say that the BBEG was preoccupied with his preparations for turning the hall into a temple of Wee Jas and didn't want to be disturbed ...] After resting long enough to regain 2 hp each, the intrepid adventurers take the lift down to the next level. They spy two burly-looking orcs clearing rubble down one corridor. The orcs (no doubt alerted by the chains rattling) notice the adventurers. No surprise round! The orcs win initiative, though. The first one charges at Berandd as the lift touches the ground, but he misjudges his swing and it glances harmlessly off the dwarf's armor. The second orc sidesteps around the lift towards another hallway and bellows at the top of his lungs. The heroes attack the two orcs and are a bit surprised at the challenge presented by the pair. However, Berandd manages to score a killer blow against his attacker [his player rolled a natural 20 and then another natural 20 to confirm the crit], dishing out 36 points of damage! That's one very dead orc. The other one manages to survive and gets revenge on Berandd, taking the dwarf down. He lies dying on the lift platform and Tharlas is unable to stabilize him. Things are looking grim when an angry human man dressed in full-plate armor and wearing a tabard with the emblem of Wee Jas (although the PCs don't recognize it as such) emblazoned on it comes striding into the room. He is wielding a heavy mace and a heavy steel shield. He demands to know what the intruders are on about, but they just respond in kind. The heroes decide to make a tactical retreat. Baz pours a cure potion down the dying dwarf's throat, reviving him enough so that he can operate the lift machinery. They start their ascent. The surviving orc takes a swing at the dwarf but misses. He gets hit with a few ranged shots but doesn't go down. The BBEG casts hold person on the dwarf but Berandd manages to shake it off. The BBEG then casts cause fear on him, but again the dwarf resists. [Bloody dwarf! Not only has he killed most of my monsters with one hit, but he resists all the spells the BBEG throws at him too! He really seems quite overpowered in comparison to the other two PCs, but I suppose things will change when they get to higher level and face off against monsters with enough hit points to be able to survive being mauled by a greataxe-wielding, power attacking dwarf ... *sigh*] The BBEG shouts at them to come back and face him, but they ignore him and continue back up to the next level, where they intend to rest. We had to end here as it was 10:30pm and my players don't like to go to bed late on a worknight. Fortunately, my sister-in-law agreed that we should play my campaign again next Thursday instead of hers, so hopefully we'll finish off this module next time and they'll all get to level up. |
| gamertall09-15-06, 11:01 AM | I can't believe how much fun I am having reading your campaign pukunui! That paragraph about the role-playing was the most enjoyable part. It reaffirms my belief that role-playing has been completely destroyed by roll-playing. I like that your players respect or like each other enough to not let in-game actions affect them out of game. If that had happened in my game, there would have been so much meta-gaming it would have been a bone of contention for weeks. Congratulate your players from me on their 'professionalism' to each other and their respect for each other to allow each other to role-play the character they have created. Bravo! |
| pukunui09-15-06, 05:28 PM | I can't believe how much fun I am having reading your campaign pukunui! That paragraph about the role-playing was the most enjoyable part. It reaffirms my belief that role-playing has been completely destroyed by roll-playing. I like that your players respect or like each other enough to not let in-game actions affect them out of game. If that had happened in my game, there would have been so much meta-gaming it would have been a bone of contention for weeks. Congratulate your players from me on their 'professionalism' to each other and their respect for each other to allow each other to role-play the character they have created. Bravo! Stop ... you're embarrassing me ... ;) I'm glad you enjoy it. I was beginning to wonder whether anyone was actually reading it ... I know it's not actually a Red Hand of Doom thread yet, but it will be one day, I promise! There's not a lot of metagaming in my game, thank goodness. I think it helps that we're basically all family. The group consists of my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, her boyfriend, and me. My two siblings-in-law are both relatively new to the game, whereas the boyfriend is fairly experienced (but I'm the oldest at 25 and most experienced as well, having played 2e as a teenager in the 90s). The funny thing is that my brother-in-law is the only real "story" oriented player. He writes up quite detailed backstories for his characters and fleshes out their motivations and such. The other two have immensely busy social lives (being popular 19-year-olds) and so don't have a lot of time to commit to d&d outside of actual gametime. Their characters are thus little more than what's on the character sheet. Practically no backstory whatsoever. Yet they have a good idea of who their characters are and can roleplay them well in the game. We have fun, and that's the most important thing. Thanks for reading and for letting me know you've been enjoying it. That gives me cause to keep at it. :) |
| sidekick09-18-06, 10:15 AM | Choice. Cheers for that, mate ... I mean ... cool, thanks, man (must ... resist ... talking like a New Zealander!) Too late cuz, too late. The sentence earlier that consisted solely of “sweet” and “as” kinda sealed that nail in the coffin. I say embrace the kiwi-spek and ham it up to it’s fullest. Because trust, having been away from home for 2 years, I can honestly say. Us Niuw Zeelunders sound ruuly, ruuly, funny… ;) Kia Kaha P.S. althoug hat least we don't invent word meanings like those cokneys. I mean scooby? What's all that about? [I now return you to your original thread topic] |
| pukunui09-18-06, 04:33 PM | LOL. Cheers for the shout-out, bro! ;) Kia ora. |
| pukunui09-28-06, 07:29 AM | We were not able to play last week due to 3/4 of the group being sick. Fortunately, we managed to pull ourselves together and get a session in this evening, so we could finish the "Unearthing the Past" module. :w00t: This session consisted primarily of the climactic battle between the heroes and the BBEG. The best part was how it all ended ... but I'll get to that all in good time. Firstly, let me just recap the cast of characters for you: Heroes: Tharlas - elf druid 2 Berandd - dwarf fighter 2 Baz - halfling beguiler 2 BBEG: Aldin - human cleric 4 (Wee Jas) We ended the last session with the three heroes fleeing from the BBEG. Their next move was to rest for a full 24 hours, although Baz spent some of this time prowling around outside in search of a back door. He came away convinced that the BBEG was well and truly trapped down below. Once the heroes were rested and rearmed with spells and such, they took the lift back down to the bottom level. They were in for a bit of a surprise: the BBEG was waiting for them, unarmed and seemingly ready to bargain. He told them that he hadn't meant for his orcish employees to shoot first and ask questions later and that their deaths meant he was now without a labor force and would the heroes be interested in taking their place. He offered to pay them. The heroes were justifiably suspicious but Aldin seemed genuine enough. Baz attempted to charm Aldin without success. In the end, they decided that Tharlas would stay and guard the lift while Berandd and Baz followed Aldin. After heading down a passageway for a bit, the two heroes were ambushed by Aldin and his one remaining orc minion. Berandd spotted the trap and managed to yell out a warning as the battle began. Aldin summoned up a fiendish medium monstrous spider as the orc warrior charged. During the course of the battle, the spider managed to bite Berandd once and Baz twice. They both failed their fortitude saves and were weakened by the spider's poison. Baz also failed the secondary check and so by the end of it he was down to STR 2! The spider was eventually disabled by ranged attacks from Tharlas and a little while later it vanished in a puff of yellowy smoke. Meanwhile, the orc was knocked out once, healed by Aldin, then knocked out again. Aldin then used his death knell spell to suck the remaining life out of his minion and boost himself. Tharlas sent his wolf in to attack the BBEG but Aldin used his Death Touch ability to callously brush the animal aside, instantly slaying it in the process. Berandd was then disabled by a vicious attack, but he was able to drink a cure potion. Baz and he then decided to retreat to the lift. Aldin followed, attacking them with his mace and his spells. He managed to shake Baz up a bit with a cause fear spell and damaged Tharlas with a spontaneously-cast inflict moderate wounds spell (although Tharlas made his save so only took partial damage -- otherwise he would have been knocked out). The heroes looked to be very close to an agonizing defeat ... but then the remarkable happened! The incredibly weak Baz managed to hypnotize Aldin (he rolled a natural 1 on his save) and convinced him to stop attacking them. As Aldin stood there in a trance, Tharlas and Berandd moved swiftly to flank him. Before Aldin could react, Berandd attacked with his greataxe ... Berandd's player rolled a natural 20, then a 19 to confirm the critical, then rolled a total of 35 damage. With one mighty stroke, Berandd struck off Aldin's head, sending it flying across the room. The BBEG was dead! While Tharlas mourned the loss of his wolf companion, the other two went and searched the rest of the ruins. As a reward for their pains, they scored a substantial amount of gold and silver, Aldin's full plate (which Berandd intends to get adjusted to fit him), a masterwork light crossbow, some tapestries with religious scenes, a fancy gem (that Baz pocketed without anyone noticing) and an interesting necklace composed of a gold chain with three fiery beads on it, one slightly larger than the other two (this is, in actual fact, a necklace of fireballs type I, but they don't even know that it's magical yet ...) As a result of their experiences with the BBEG and his minions, the heroes have attained level 3. Berandd and Tharlas's players will most likely have their characters continue down their chosen paths, but Baz's player is considering branching out into rogue. Tharlas will also need to spend 24 hours praying for a new animal companion. So we ended tonight's session with the heroes resting in the cave up above the ruins before heading back to the village of Prosser. Berandd's Uncle Thor will be anxiously awaiting their return (as they have been gone for two days now and, although he is getting impatient to be moving on, he doesn't want to go anywhere without them for fear of being robbed or worse). I may be hosting again next week. Unless my players have other ideas, I'll be running the adventure "Dry Spell" once they reach the hamlet of Hillwatch (there's a bit of time to kill before that, during which I'll introduce some NPCs as possible allies should they want some help and possibly run a "random" encounter or two ...) |
| chesspiece09-29-06, 12:26 PM | While Tharlas mourned the loss of his wolf companion, the other two went and searched the rest of the ruins. I don't know about you, but I'm always on the look-out for Roleplaying / PC-development opportunities - especially when DMing for small groups. You could have a lot of fun with the fact that the druid's 1st companion was slain by Death Magic. A soft wolf-howl that noone else hears to make him feel guilty. Dream visions of the wolf allowing you to plant hooks / steer the party. His wolf wildshape looks exactly like his fallen friend. Could be fun! Cheers, Steve |
| pukunui09-29-06, 05:16 PM | I don't know about you, but I'm always on the look-out for Roleplaying / PC-development opportunities - especially when DMing for small groups. You could have a lot of fun with the fact that the druid's 1st companion was slain by Death Magic. A soft wolf-howl that noone else hears to make him feel guilty. Dream visions of the wolf allowing you to plant hooks / steer the party. His wolf wildshape looks exactly like his fallen friend. Could be fun! Cheers, Steve Hmm. Those are intriguing ideas. Thanks, chesspiece! I'll have to keep those in mind! |
| pukunui10-12-06, 04:37 PM | Sigh ... why do the forums always have to go down for maintenance just as I'm sitting down to write my session recap on a Thursday night (NZ time)? Grumble grumble ... Anyway, last night's session was fun. Not a lot happened really, but it was still fun. Our trio of adventurers returned to the village of Prosser and apologized to their current employer, the half-elf merchant Thor Kopman, for causing him such lengthy delays (they were gone for almost 3 days). They were thanked profusely by the town's leader, Deillyr Starcloak, for saving the shipment of food from the bandits. She also told them that she had interrogated the human they had captured before, but they already knew what he'd told her ... she then sent them off to see the head priest of the Pelorian church for some healing. He gave them all blessings and restored them to optimum health. Thor also informed them that he had procured the horse and cart that had brought the food to Prosser as they belonged to a merchant friend of his and he was sure the guy wouldn't mind if they used it so long as Thor gave it back to him upon returning to Brindol. The heroes were pleased as it meant they wouldn't have to carry as much -- Berandd, especially so, because he had been lugging around a suit of full plate as well as his own armor. As there was still some light in the day, Thor insisted that they get started as it would take a little more than 2 days to arrive in the next village of Dauth and they would have to traverse the Dauth Forest along the way. They made it as far as the forest's edge before nightfall and found a spot that had been previously used as a camp. [switching to present tense mode] The next day, when they stop for lunch, Tharlas goes in search of a rabbit and finds one. He charms it with his wild empathy and then spends the rest of the lunch break cuddling it and thinking about his dead wolf companion (this from a character that my sis-in-law tells me is the "strong, silent type" ... LOL). Around mid-afternoon, they come to a sturdy stone bridge spanning a small but deep stream. A sign next to the bridge reads: paY tRoL or eLs. The travelers foolishly think "trol" is just a misspelling of "toll" and start looking around for a collection box (what a bunch of law-abiding sheep! ;)). Unfortunately, there really is a troll and he comes out from under the bridge and tells them that they each have to pay him 20gp to cross the bridge. The troll is only the size of a human but is recognizable because of its green rubbery skin, gangly limbs, etc. However, this one appears more intelligent than most trolls and can speak Common albeit rather poorly. That said, after some back and forth, Baz the beguiling halfling succeeds in convincing the troll to accept his medium-sized masterwork light crossbow as payment for all of them (as it is worth significantly more than 80gp), but he manages a sleight of hand and gives the troll his near-worthless small-sized crossbow instead. The gang is most of the way across the bridge when the troll realizes he's been swindled and lofts a javelin dripping with something unpleasantly wet. Baz tries to hypnotize the troll but it shakes it off and responds by chucking its javelin at him. The javelin sticks into Baz's side, infecting him with some kind of weakening poison that he just manages to resist. While Thor cowers in the background, ostensibly keeping the animals and their gear in the cart safe, the trio engage the troll. Tharlas gets in a few good hits with his scimitar before conjuring up a flaming sphere with which to burn the troll ... (however, unbeknownst to the PCs but knownst to me, this is a forest troll and, from what I gathered from its entry in the MM3, it can heal fire/acid damage because it's got fast healing instead of regeneration, although this also means that it can be killed more easily). Berandd, on the other hand, is not in top form and has trouble getting a hit in, much to his (and his player's) chagrin. So much for the dwarven one-hit wonder ... ;) The troll's ability to heal all kinds of damage stymies the heroes for some time and they consider simply running away. Then Tharlas gets hit by a troll claw dripping with poison, fails his initial save, and takes a whopping 6 CON damage (dropping his total hp by 9). However Baz saves the day and succeeds in hypnotizing the troll. After some discussion about whether to just leave or to kill the troll (and some shameless metagaming on my part by hinting that they really should kill the troll so they could search under the bridge), Thor pipes up and tells them he thinks they should kill it to make the road safer for other travelers. They agree and try the same tactic that worked so well on Aldin Trember, the evil cleric of Wee Jas. Tharlas and Berandd step into flanking position on either side of the troll and, before it can break the spell and defend itself, Berandd finds himself and delivers a crushing critical blow with his greataxe. The troll is down, although it heals itself well enough to come to again ... but as it stands up, both heroes get AoO and kill it outright this time. Then they go search under the bridge. Baz finds a fancy small-sized rapier that glows with a moderate-strength aura when he casts detect magic on it. He attempts to decipher the inscription on the blade, but is only able to gather that it says something about the blade staying sharp or being extra sharp (it's actually a +1 keen rapier, but he doesn't know that yet). There is also a pouch with 30pp and three gems. Berandd and Baz spar over who gets the gems and Baz ends up handing over the two he thinks are rubbish (but which Berandd, with his superior knowledge of all things stoney, find to be quite nice after all) while keeping the one he knows is rubbish (although he manages to con Berandd into thinking it's worth more than the two he gave to the dwarf in an attempt to make him jealous, but he won't let the dwarf look at it closely to make sure). This scenario amused me greatly and I handed out some ad hoc XP for good roleplaying because of it. In addition, they find three scrolls which Baz is able to identify as containing Leomund's Trap, Silent Image, and Fox's Cunning. The heroes camp not far from the fight scene and the next day passes uneventfully. Around midday they break from the trees and see the small hamlet of Dauth in a shallow valley below them with the burned out ruins of its keep on a hill to the southwest. Tharlas says he's going to stay in the woods and do his 24-hour marathon prayer session to get a new companion, then he'll meet up with the others in town. Thor takes the others and makes a beeline for the Tired Giant inn, run by a great storyteller of a halfling named Galadan Ryethresher. Baz is pleased to hear there's another of his race around. As they get into town, they see people setting up for a festival of sorts in the town commons. Thor recalls that it's the first day of summer and that Dauth regularly holds a festival at this time. All his annoyance about being behind schedule evaporates and he decides he'll set up a stall at the festival. That's where we ended the session. I was pretty satisfied with how it went (considering that I'd made it all up myself, some of it only hours before the session). And it seems like the players have come up with a winning strategy (although it relies heavily on them getting good dice rolls) with the whole "Baz hypnotizes the enemy, then Tharlas and Berandd flank him, then Berandd gets a critical hit to kill him". LOL. Next session in two weeks. Hope you're all enjoying it so far. |
| pukunui10-26-06, 05:04 PM | Last night’s session was mostly fun (my sister-in-law got bored waiting for 24 hours to be up so her character could rejoin the party – I tried to make the time go swiftly, but the other two players had other ideas and wanted to do lots of roleplaying during that time.). Oh well. I ended up making the Dauth Summer Festival more interactive, with several games and contests in which the PCs could participate. See below for more details. Cast of Characters Tharlas - male elf druid 3 (PC) Bazzanar Sternharp - male halfling beguiler 3 (PC) Berandd Stromgaarde - male dwarf fighter 3 (PC) Thor Kopman - male half-elf expert 7 (NPC – Berandd’s uncle and the PCs’ current employer) Galadan Ryethresher - male halfling expert 4 (NPC - Dauth's innkeeper) Seraphina Ryethresher - female halfling favored soul 1 (NPC - Galadan's daughter - potential NPC ally) Keth Helden - male half-orc sorceror 1 (NPC - potential NPC ally) Boris "Blackbeard" Dannen - male human expert 2/ranger 1 (NPC - Dauth's head woodsman) Tom Crando - male human warrior 3 (NPC - Dauth's constable) Marvik Hammerfist - male dwarf expert 5 (NPC - Dauth's blacksmith) We begin the session with Tharlas. He meets a woodsman named Boris who figures out he’s a druid and offers to show him a secluded old druid grove complete with stone circle that’s not too far into the woods. Tharlas is pleased and finds it to be the perfect spot for his prayer session. Before leaving, Boris invites Tharlas to take part in the festivities in town. The druid accepts and then settles down for his 24-hour prayer marathon. Meanwhile, the others head straight for the Tired Giant Inn, where they meet its jovial halfling proprietor Galadan Ryethresher. Once the dinner rush has passed, Galadan leaves the bar in the capable hands of his two pretty daughters (the older of whom, Seraphina, keeps casting furtive glances at Baz). He regales the group with some tales and rumors, including some carefully inserted RHoD foreshadowing (reports of the goblinoid tribes in the Wyrmsmokes to the west becoming more organized and raiding isolated farmsteads in the Drellin’s Ferry area, and an odd prophecy about averting impending doom by recovering an artifact and returning it to its rightful owner … a :cookie: to anyone who can figure that one out). One of his tales was about a halfling adventurer who’d managed to steal a spellbook from under the nose of a great wizard (to which Baz quipped "Oh, so that's how you were able to afford this inn!" :D). The next day is the first day of the festival. There will mostly be agricultural style events (a medieval-style A&P show, a market, etc). Thor hurries off to set up his spice stall, while Baz goes to see a grumpy old wizard to get his magic sword identified (if you recall, it’s a +1 keen rapier) and Berandd goes to see if he can get his captured suit of human-sized full plate reshaped in a timely fashion. Marvik the smith agrees to do it in 3 days for him, but says it’ll be a rushed job and charges him the full 800gp (although he eventually settles for 700gp on account of Berandd being a fellow dwarf and all … ;)). We now return to Tharlas, who awakes from his meditations and is greeted by a new wolf, larger and tougher than his previous one with a streak of darker fur running down its tail. He names it Mayryn but can't help thinking of Leanar at the same time. (My sister-in-law had a lot of trouble advancing the wolf to make it a 3rd-level druid animal companion with +2HD, etc, which was kind of annoying as it slowed the session down but oh well ...). The two trek into the village and meet up with their pals. Some drinking and other merriment ensues (including Seraphina asking Baz to dance). Tharlas also witnesses a fellow elf entertaining the crowd with a dancing bear. The druid is angered when he notices that the bear looks unhappy and malnourished. He vows to do something about it ... The second day of the festival is more fun. First there's an archery contest, with contestants shooting 5 arrows at a stationary target 150 feet away. Although Boris, the woodsman Tharlas met the day before, is the favorite to win the contest, Tharlas shows him up by getting 5 bullseyes to Boris' 4. Boris graciously concedes defeat. Tharlas' prize is 100XP, 20 masterwork arrows, and 100cp. (See p. 132 of Complete Warrior for the archery contest rules.) While Baz and Berandd go looking for other games, Tharlas decides he's going to find and confront the elf with the dancing bear. Berandd challenges Marvik the blacksmith in a wrestling match (using the Bull Rush rules to push the opponent out of a circle drawn on the ground) but is not able to beat the older and tougher dwarf. Then both Berandd and Baz challenge the town constable, Tom Crando, to mock sword-fighting duels with wooden swords (using melee touch attacks to score "hits"). First, though, young Seraphina challenges Tom. It's obvious she's trying to impress Baz, and while she does well, she's just not quite good enough and Tom wins two out of three. Then it's Baz's turn - it's a close call, but he manages to beat the human, so Berandd challenges Baz. I let their players duke it out - Berandd won in the end, receiving 100XP and a silver brooch for his prize - and went to roleplay the interaction between Tharlas and the elf entertainer. The elf is by himself in the stableyard behind the Tired Giant inn. His bear is locked in a cramped cage. When Tharlas tries to talk to the elf, he discovers that the guy is foul-tempered and incredibly rude, but the druid continues to pester him about the bear. The other elf gets angrier and angrier, so Tharlas eventually leaves and tracks down Baz for help. They have an interesting exchange, in which Tharlas pretty much blackmails Baz into helping him by revealing that he knows the halfling broke into the dwarven tombs despite Berandd telling him not to ... so Tharlas transforms himself into a shrub with treeshape to watch unnoticed while Baz "innocently" strolls into the stableyard. Unfortunately, although Baz does get a bit of useful information from the elf, he's not able to convince him to do anything about the bear. In the end, he decides he'll sneak back to the cage when the elf is doing his next performance and switch the lock with one of his own so that he'll have the key and be able to unlock it later on to free the bear. This is pretty much where we ended. I was hoping to get to the drinking contest (using the rules for intoxication from the Arms and Equipment Guide), but that will have to wait until next time. This session introduced a number of key NPCs to the group. First, there is the elf, who is clearly evil. (He is in fact a LE ranger with the "stormtouched" unique ability from the DMG2.) I'm really glad they fell for the dancing bear hook as I was hoping to make this guy a recurring villain. I have this great image of their next encounter with him (which will only happen if they succeed in freeing the bear and not getting caught in the process) ... he'll use his weekly ability to control the weather to call up a mighty storm (remember, there's a drought on). The PCs will take shelter in an old abandoned church in an abandoned and creepy village. Then, in a flash of lightning and heavy rain, they'll see a hooded figure in the doorway to the church. There will be much creepiness. There will be undead (roused by the storm). The undead will drive off the BBEG before the PCs can kill him or he them. The PCs will then have to face the undead (they'll be fairly easy mindless ones, though). There are also two potential NPC allies for the group (seeing as there are only 3 PCs ... and the upcoming RHoD adventures will be very tough). The first is Keth Helden, a half-orc sorceror with the Precocious Apprentice feat (giving him invisibility once per day at 1st level), and the second is Seraphina Ryethresher, who is in fact a 1st-level favored soul of Olidammara. Both of these NPCs are dying to get out of Dauth as it's a pretty dead town. I don't know that we need both, but I'll certainly give my players the option to take either of them along with them. I think Seraphina (Sera for short) will be more interesting in the long run as a potential love interest for Baz ... but Keth could be interesting too. That's all for now. Next session in two weeks. |
| Caligula10-27-06, 01:42 PM | Keth Helden? Is he by any chance related to the adventuring sea-farer Geth Helder? :D |
| gamertall10-27-06, 02:50 PM | Please keep up the good work pukunui! Due to school, work, and time constraints my group meets about once every two weeks. I'm kind of bummed by how much time passes between sessions, but not much can be done about it. My hats off to you for crafting a good story and getting your players involved in it. My biggest problem with my group is that they don't try to get involved with the story. They seem to treat D&D like a video game; expecting everything to happen immediately when they enter a room. They don't take the time to try and investigate or role-play with NPCs for information. In other words, I'm looking forward to the report of your next session.:) |
| pukunui10-27-06, 04:21 PM | Keth Helden? Is he by any chance related to the adventuring sea-farer Geth Helder? :D LOL. I was wondering if you'd pick up on that, Caligula. I actually got Keth from the suggested names for half-orcs in the PHB, but then when I was wracking my brain for a surname, all I could think of was "Geth Helder" ... Your player should consider it a compliment that someone else was inspired by his PC's name. Please keep up the good work pukunui! Due to school, work, and time constraints my group meets about once every two weeks. I'm kind of bummed by how much time passes between sessions, but not much can be done about it. My hats off to you for crafting a good story and getting your players involved in it. My biggest problem with my group is that they don't try to get involved with the story. They seem to treat D&D like a video game; expecting everything to happen immediately when they enter a room. They don't take the time to try and investigate or role-play with NPCs for information. In other words, I'm looking forward to the report of your next session.Thanks, GT! I'm glad you're still enjoying it. It's kind of hard to tell sometimes seeing as I don't get a lot of feedback (but then I don't get much feedback on the monthly e-mail updates I send to my family and friends, but they all assure me they read and enjoy them, so maybe that's just how it goes ...). Only getting to DM once every two weeks wouldn't be so bad if we could play for longer than 2.5 hours a session. My players all work (whereas I'm a stay-at-home dad), and so they all pretty much insist on ending every session at 10:00pm (having usually started around 7:30pm). I'd prefer to play for longer than that. I'm also up for extra sessions, but two of my players play in another group (so they get to play twice a week, lucky devils!), plus they're busy socialites (whereas my other player's a bit of a hermit and I don't really know many people here in NZ, so neither of us gets out much) and so they don't really want to play any more often than that. Anyway ... It is nice that my players get involved in the story. It's good that they do a bit of roleplaying because our combats are still in the sort of "You hit. He misses. Take 10 damage" style of thing. I try to use more description, but my players haven't quite caught on yet ... Also, the same two I mentioned above haven't really fleshed out their characters all that well -- well, it's just that the other one is very definitely a "story" player, so maybe he just makes the other two look bad. But their immersion in the story bodes well for when we finally get to start RHoD properly ... I think they'll really enjoy it when we do. I'm hoping to start it before the end of the year, but with such short playing sessions, it probably won't happen. I've already decided NOT to run Sons of Gruumsh this time because I think it'll take too long and the PCs might level up too much. At the moment I'm thinking on having Immerstal the Red, Brindol's chief wizard, send them on some sort of "spell components" quest when they get back to Brindol. I'm going to run "Dry Spell" before too long, and that will get them up to 4th level. All I need is to get them almost to 5th level, and then I can start RHoD with the "Use This Book Tonight" encounter. |
| Prub10-27-06, 04:42 PM | Thanks, GT! I'm glad you're still enjoying it. It's kind of hard to tell sometimes seeing as I don't get a lot of feedback (but then I don't get much feedback on the monthly e-mail updates I send to my family and friends, but they all assure me they read and enjoy them, so maybe that's just how it goes ...). Only getting to DM once every two weeks wouldn't be so bad if we could play for longer than 2.5 hours a session. My players all work (whereas I'm a stay-at-home dad), and so they all pretty much insist on ending every session at 10:00pm (having usually started around 7:30pm). I'd prefer to play for longer than that. I'm also up for extra sessions, but two of my players play in another group (so they get to play twice a week, lucky devils!), plus they're busy socialites (whereas my other player's a bit of a hermit and I don't really know many people here in NZ, so neither of us gets out much) and so they don't really want to play any more often than that. Anyway ... It is nice that my players get involved in the story. It's good that they do a bit of roleplaying because our combats are still in the sort of "You hit. He misses. Take 10 damage" style of thing. I try to use more description, but my players haven't quite caught on yet ... Also, the same two I mentioned above haven't really fleshed out their characters all that well -- well, it's just that the other one is very definitely a "story" player, so maybe he just makes the other two look bad. But their immersion in the story bodes well for when we finally get to start RHoD properly ... I think they'll really enjoy it when we do. I'm hoping to start it before the end of the year, but with such short playing sessions, it probably won't happen. I've already decided NOT to run Sons of Gruumsh this time because I think it'll take too long and the PCs might level up too much. At the moment I'm thinking on having Immerstal the Red, Brindol's chief wizard, send them on some sort of "spell components" quest when they get back to Brindol. I'm going to run "Dry Spell" before too long, and that will get them up to 4th level. All I need is to get them almost to 5th level, and then I can start RHoD with the "Use This Book Tonight" encounter. I truely enjoy reading almost all the recaps. I rarely post on them though. I enjoy the new ideas I can learn from them as well as the depth the characters go . (since my group doesnt have the depth) But I know how you feel I get no responses to my recaps not that I expected to, lol My group is made of a homeschool group and this is part of our extra ciricular activities hehe. We have my family which consists of my wife (Grym) my son (crusher) and myself (DM/Lotherian) and my wife DMs too she loves playing god, and another family with 3 kids and thier mom and 1 more child from another family. We get together every monday and play from 5 to 9 hours. I am a white water rafting guide who was out of work all this season due to a knee injury but now its off season so I am out of work till spring lol and my wife is a stay at home Mother/teacher. We have great hours lets us do things with out son that most cant do .. But keep up the good work. I love reading the recaps.. you too Caligula and Snake too.. all of you plus the others I dont mention are great keep it up! |
| pukunui10-27-06, 04:53 PM | Thanks, Prub. Sounds like you've got it made. I made the decision to be a stay-at-home dad because we didn't want to have to put our daughter (who's almost 1 year old already!!) into daycare when my wife's maternity leave ended. I'm hoping to go back to school next year to get a teaching degree, though, so I don't know what we'll do with her then ... It'll only take a year to get the degree, and then once I get a teaching job, my wife wants to take over being the stay-at-home parent. Despite what you might read in the papers here, New Zealand is a great place to raise children. But I digress ... I'm also lucky because only one of my players visits these boards and then mostly only to look at threads in the CO forum, so unlike Caligula, I don't have to worry about keeping this thread free of spoilers. :w00t: Watch out for the next recap in two weeks' time! |
| pukunui10-27-06, 05:29 PM | One thing I forgot to mention before is that the player of Bazzanar Sternharp, the beguiling halfling, has decided that said moniker is not actually his character's real name but merely an alias. He shuffled me into a side room to tell me the PC's true name because he didn't want the others to know it so that their PCs' wouldn't "accidentally" know it either ... LOL. I thought that was a rather cool idea, actually, because it could give me some fun material to work with ... Some NPC could come up to the PCs when Baz isn't around and ask to speak to so-and-so, and Berandd and Tharlas will be like, "Who?" Or perhaps someone will address Baz by his real name in front of the others, and he'll be like "Sorry, but I think you've mistaken me for someone else." Best of all, perhaps Baz has changed his name because he's in trouble with the law. That could be fun ... in fact, maybe the PCs will get hired to track him down, not knowing that he's already with them. Ha ha. |
| Caligula10-28-06, 02:19 PM | I dont want to bad-mouth one of the PCs but Geth Helder is an adventurer "extraordinaire"....He is really the Errol Flynn type Swashbuckler! And already he has fought against orcish warlords in the land of Thar, and when he was younger he had a woman in each harbor...So I thought perhaps that your PC Keld Helder was...an...offspring perhaps? :D |
| pukunui10-28-06, 04:19 PM | I dont want to bad-mouth one of the PCs but Geth Helder is an adventurer "extraordinaire"....He is really the Errol Flynn type Swashbuckler! And already he has fought against orcish warlords in the land of Thar, and when he was younger he had a woman in each harbor...So I thought perhaps that your PC Keld Helder was...an...offspring perhaps? :D LOL ... possibly. But his name is Keth Helden. He's actually only a 1/4-orc (his dad is a half-orc but his mom is human), but I couldn't be bothered coming up with new stats or anything, so mechanically he's still a half-orc although, appearance-wise, he can pass off as a human if people don't look too closely (slight greyish tinge to his skin, mostly hidden by a farmer's tan, slight upturning to his nose, unusually bulky build ...). |
| chesspiece10-28-06, 06:27 PM | I don't get a lot of feedback (but then I don't get much feedback on the monthly e-mail updates I send to my family and friends, but they all assure me they read and enjoy them, so maybe that's just how it goes ...). Only getting to DM once every two weeks wouldn't be so bad if we could play for longer than 2.5 hours a session. My players all work (whereas I'm a stay-at-home dad), and so they all pretty much insist on ending every session at 10:00pm (having usually started around 7:30pm). I'd prefer to play for longer than that. I'm also up for extra sessions, but two of my players play in another group (so they get to play twice a week, lucky devils!), plus they're busy socialites (whereas my other player's a bit of a hermit and I don't really know many people here in NZ, so neither of us gets out much) and so they don't really want to play any more often than that. Anyway ... One suggestion you might consider is to work in some text / description / hooks / RPing via email between games. Check out some of the PbP (Play by Post) threads for inspiration. Also, some Players even have an easier time of speaking In Character in emails. Here’s a RHoD one that’s dropped off lately: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=162419 http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161525 I tried it for my group. Since we only play every second week (best case), we used email in the past to get new adventures started up. This allowed us to get right into the first fight when we sat down at the table. Unfortunately, most of the group wasn’t interested in the emails; or couldn’t access email every day or two – so we’ve abandoned this for now. Good luck with your game. Maybe once you’ve gotten them into Red Hand, they’ll decide to drop their other D&D group and dedicate themselves to your campaign. :) Cheers, Steve |
| pukunui10-28-06, 07:19 PM | Interesting idea, chesspiece. I don't think my players would be interested, though. One of them is renting a room from us, so I see him regularly and it would be kind of silly to e-mail him stuff when I can just walk into his room ... the other two, as I said, are very busy socialites (being all of 19) and so they claim to barely have enough time to read their e-mails let alone e-mail anyone back ... Sigh. I just have to learn to be patient. That never has been one of my virtues. |
| Caligula10-30-06, 08:58 AM | We actually use e-mails between adventures or between sessions for several admin-queries. The players can use email to identify magical items, or to roll for Knowledge skills etc. They can also use email for selling or trading stuff. We use appraise and diplomacy skill checks and I roll the dice at home informing the players via email of the results. I would recommend you Pukunui to try and focus on one game. Especially if you are playing RHoD. The module is complex with lots of NPCs and info. Mixing the campaign up with other adventures may influence quality of play, since your players wont be as focused on this story as they would otherwise have been. It´s really a lot to keep track on in RHoD for the players. Anyway, I wish you luck and that you guys can find the time to get on with it! :) |
| pukunui10-30-06, 02:13 PM | Once we've started RHoD, I certainly will be focusing just on that and won't offer them any real sidequests. We're still pre-RHoD, though, and I'm still working on building up a sense of "place" for them in Elsir Vale so that when the time does come to defend it, they'll actually feel like they're defending their homeland. The team has already made some friends in Prosser and now in Dauth, so they'll certainly want to make sure they stay safe ... Hopefully they'll make some friends in Hillwatch as well. And they'll already technically have some in Brindol and Dennovar, since that's where they came from. |
| Caligula10-30-06, 05:20 PM | How long "real time" do you think you guys are away from starting the module RHoD? Couple of months? 6 months? |
| pukunui10-30-06, 05:25 PM | How long "real time" do you think you guys are away from starting the module RHoD? Couple of months? 6 months? I'd like to think we'll get to it before the end of the year, but that's probably wishful thinking on my part. All I have to do is get them from 3800XP (which is where they are now) to about 9500XP, and then they'll be set to start heading west towards Drellin's Ferry, encountering an ogre being recruited by some Red Hand agents outside of Nimon Gap along the way (see the RHoD "Use This Book Tonight" extra). In reality, we probably won't get there until early next year. I am planning on running the free "Dry Spell" adventure when they get to Hillwatch, and that will get them to 4th level. But then I need something that will get them to almost 5th level before we can start RHoD. I was going to run SoG, but I felt that it would take a while and they might end up at 6th or 7th level even (seeing as there are only 3 of them so they get more XP out of every encounter) by the time they finish, which would mean RHoD isn't as difficult (and I want it to be difficult! ;)) |
| Caligula10-30-06, 05:56 PM | I would actually recommend you to let them be at least 5th level before starting RHoD. There are some really tough encounters early on in the module, especially if there are only 3 PCs. But Im sure you know this already! :) |
| pukunui10-30-06, 05:59 PM | I would actually recommend you to let them be at least 5th level before starting RHoD. There are some really tough encounters early on in the module, especially if there are only 3 PCs. But Im sure you know this already! :) Yeah, but with the "Use This Book Tonight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ub/20060224a)" encounter, the author says "I'd suggest running the encounter when the PCs are 4th level, and toward the end of 4th level/beginning of 5th level if you plan to move directly into Red Hand of Doom." I'm hoping they'll pick up one of the two possible NPC allies in the town of Dauth (Seraphina the halfling favored soul or Keth the half-orc sorceror) ... and whether or not they do, I've got a human ranger who's been tracking the Red Hand agents who'll meet up with the PCs closer to the time. If they take on any of these NPCs, then it'll boost their party numbers up a bit. Of course, I'm not going to force any of these NPC allies on to the party if they don't want them, but they're there if they do. |
| Caligula10-30-06, 06:01 PM | Oh, that´s great! Yeah, you should go with that then. But cant you find a 4th player, or at least a 4th PC? Cant someone of your current players use 2 PCs? |
| pukunui10-30-06, 06:05 PM | I'd love for there to be a 4th PC ... but I don't know that we'll be able to find another player, and my current players are either uninterested or too inexperienced to play more than one PC at a time. I'd happily provide a 4th "PC" as the DM, but like I said before, I don't want to force it on them. |
| pukunui11-09-06, 06:03 AM | Session time: almost 4 hours! :w00t: Cast of Characters Tharlas - male elf druid 3 (PC) Bazzanar Sternharp - male halfling beguiler 3 (PC) Berandd Stromgaarde - male dwarf fighter 3 (PC) Thor Kopman - male half-elf expert 7 (NPC – Berandd’s uncle and the PCs’ current employer) Seraphina "Sera" Ryethresher - female halfling favored soul 1 (NPC ally) Keth Helden - male half-orc sorceror 1 (NPC ally) The session opened with a drinking contest at the Tired Giant Inn. If you recall, this was part of the Dauth Summer Festival. The contest: to be the last man standing after drinking round after round of ale. I used the optional rules for intoxication from the Arms & Equipment Guide (p. 32). Basically it involves progressively more difficult Fortitude saves against the alcohol content DC of any given alcoholic drink. After a while, you're guaranteed to fail every save (although I allowed a natural 20 to still be a success, even when the penalty was impossibly huge). When you fail your save, you take 1d2 points of temp damage to Dex and Wis. If your Wis hits 0, you fall unconscious. If your Dex hits 0, you're still conscious but you're in a drunken heap on the floor. If both hit 0, alcohol poisoning sets in. Anyway, to make a long story short: all three PCs plus the adventurous innkeeper's daughter, Sera, took on the town's leading drinker, known as the Ox. Unfortunately, he was really off his game and was the first to fall unconscious, followed by, believe it or not, Berandd "Ironguts" Stromgaarde. Sera hung in a bit longer, but then it was down to Tharlas and Baz ... and both of them passed out on the same drink! Conveniently enough, the local cleric of Pelor was on hand with scrolls of restoration to bring everyone back to full health without even a hangover to remind them of what they'd just done. A tie was declared and both Tharlas and Baz won the prize: a month's worth of free drinks and their names inscribed on the gold trophy mug. They also got 112 XP each. Next, Baz decided to put his own lock on the dancing bear's cage while the elf was doing another performance so that he couldn't get the bear back into the cage. However, after the performance, they found that the elf had smashed the lock off and put the bear back in the cage. They found him getting himself drunk in a corner of the inn. They left him there to go and watch Keth Helden perform magic tricks. Baz then asked Sera to dance with him. She apologized for coming on so strong earlier and explained how much she hated Dauth. She expressed a strong desire to get out of the town, and Baz agreed to take her to the big city (Dennovar). She revealed a secret to him - she has a special connection to the god Olidammara and is a sort of prophet. (I had meant for her to be openly religious, making frequent comments about Olidammara, but I have been consistently forgetting about that, so now it appears that she's trying to keep it a secret. I suppose it makes sense that being a prophet of the god of rogues, trickery, wine, and revelry isn't something you'd go around telling everybody, but I had still meant for her to make frequent comments like "Olidammara give me strength" and such). Tharlas decided that since the elf was getting drunk in the inn, he wouldn't notice if his bear was spirited away, so the druid wheeled the caged wagon out into the woods on the outskirts of town, his intention to wait until the woodsman he'd met before, Boris, came out to start work the next day. Meanwhile, the druid freed the bear and calmed her with his wild empathy ability. Then in the morning, when Boris showed up, Tharlas managed to convince him to keep an eye on the bear and make sure it survived. Boris tentatively agreed to do so, and Tharlas gave him 100gp for his troubles. (Remind me to award Tharlas some bonus XP for this interaction.) Then Baz wanted Sera to take him up to the burned out Dauth Keep to explore. Berandd joined them, but they found nothing much of interest in the keep. The next day Thor told them that he'd agreed to let Keth accompany them as far as the city as well. Although Thor is very much a non-combatant, this now puts the party technically at 6 members (three of them NPCs, although at least two are very temporary -- I have a feeling that Sera will be around for a while). Berandd got his resized full plate from the smith and they were off. There was no sign of the elf. The first night was uneventful, although Baz again unsuccessfully tried to break into Thor's locked chest during his watch. Towards the end of the following day, they came upon an abandoned village at a crossroads. Thor informed them that the village was once called Arrowdale and that no one really knows why it was abandoned, although the most likely reason was it hit hard times. The party noticed a scarecrow out in one of the fields, then they noticed it wasn't there. They heard noises and got spooked, so they went and hid in the fortress-like shrine to Pelor. Unbeknownst to them, though, the "scarecrow" (actually a ghast) had snuck into the shrine and down into the crypt before them. It and its two ghoul buddies waited until after dark, while the party was suspiciously waiting out the night above them (thinking they could hear and see things outside) ... but unfortunately they discussed their hunger for halflings and fresh meat a little too loudly and Tharlas heard them talking through the floorboards. Baz, who was also on watch, searched for a trapdoor (which I mistakenly told them was under a pile of rubble -- although I think this will work in my favor, because they still think something is waiting for them outside ... more on that later) and found one over in a corner. They woke everyone else up, Berandd put on his new armor, and then they opened the door. The dwarf went down first and got surprised by the ghast who hit him and paralyzed him (and also infected him with ghoul fever, but he won't know that until 24 hours are up). The others clambered down and then the two ghouls came out of hiding and attacked. The battle seemed to take forever but it only lasted 7 rounds which is technically only 42 seconds ... hmm. Anyway, they managed to kill all three creatures eventually. Berandd was reduced to 2 hp at one point, but Tharlas managed to heal him. Tharlas was also hit and infected with ghoul fever, but he doesn't know either ... Berandd came out the hero though, taking out the ghast then cleaving one of the ghouls. Sera took out the other one, which had been attacking Baz. They found nothing of interest in the crypt, so they all went back upstairs to the shrine. Once there, Sera healed Baz's wounds. She attempted to do it surreptitiously but both Berandd and Tharlas saw her ... and that's where we ended the session. Whew! Sorry if this post isn't up to my usual standards. It's almost midnight here, so I'm more than a little tired. I might polish it up a bit tomorrow if I get a chance. I'm also going to have to read up on ghoul fever. I hope I didn't just commit two of the PCs to a very slow death. EDIT: OK, so as far as I can tell, ghoul fever works just like any other disease, and two successful saving throws in a row cures you. Whew! |
| Caligula11-09-06, 11:32 AM | The Innkeepers daughter? Naughty, naughty PCs!!! :D |
| pukunui11-09-06, 02:17 PM | The Innkeepers daughter? Naughty, naughty PCs!!! :D LOL ... she is an adult! So get this: I finally get a decent length session in (almost 4 hours, from 7:00-10:45) and what happens? My wife is mad at me for getting home so late. I just can't win ... sigh! EDIT: So now the PCs have visited two of the more isolated villages in Elsir Vale - Prosser and Dauth. They have made some contacts in each, if not also some friends. So now when they find Koth's battle map and see "Tergarun wants halflings to eat!" scrawled next to Dauth on the map, they'll know that that refers to the Ryethresher family ... see, this is all part of my plan to familiarize the players with the land they're about to defend with their lives. :D Next stop: Hillwatch. |
| Prub11-09-06, 04:32 PM | LOL ... she is an adult! So get this: I finally get a decent length session in (almost 4 hours, from 7:00-10:45) and what happens? My wife is mad at me for getting home so late. I just can't win ... sigh! EDIT: So now the PCs have visited two of the more isolated villages in Elsir Vale - Prosser and Dauth. They have made some contacts in each, if not also some friends. So now when they find Koth's battle map and see "Tergarun wants halflings to eat!" scrawled next to Dauth on the map, they'll know that that refers to the Ryethresher family ... see, this is all part of my plan to familiarize the players with the land they're about to defend with their lives. :D Next stop: Hillwatch. easy way around the misses getting pissy.. get her to play as well. like I did with mine!!!! |
| pukunui11-09-06, 04:42 PM | easy way around the misses getting pissy.. get her to play as well. like I did with mine!!!! I wish, Prub. But someone's gotta look after the munchkin (who, incidentally, has just learned how to walk ... we're in trouble now!). Plus, our regular babysitter is also part of my d&d group. So that ain't gonna happen for a while at least. I'm not saying it'll never happen though. My wife did express an interest in finding out about d&d recently. She asked me to show her how to make a character (she made an elf druid with a wolf companion ... :rolleyes:). |
| Maghwi11-10-06, 02:02 PM | So now the PCs have visited two of the more isolated villages in Elsir Vale - Prosser and Dauth. They have made some contacts in each, if not also some friends. So now when they find Koth's battle map and see "Tergarun wants halflings to eat!" scrawled next to Dauth on the map, they'll know that that refers to the Ryethresher family ... see, this is all part of my plan to familiarize the players with the land they're about to defend with their lives. :D Next stop: Hillwatch. I really wish I had done this. Starting them off at 1st level and running them around the area. But I really wanted to run RHoD and jump right into the action. In like how you have done the interaction with the towns and the locals so the PC's would really feel at home. However, I am going to borrow some of your ideas. When the PC's finally do make it out to the towns, don't be surprised if some of the NPC's look familiar. :D I hope by the time I'm done, and they are ready to move out to into the rest of Faerun, that they still consider this area their home. I was thinking of having a few Portals located near Vraath Keep. I fully expect them to claim the Keep once this is over. (And as an epilog to the module, I'll have the last stronghold of the Red Hand be holed up in the rebuilt Vraath Keep. Imagine them having to assault the place twice! :evillaugh) |
| pukunui11-10-06, 02:18 PM | I really wish I had done this. Starting them off at 1st level and running them around the area. But I really wanted to run RHoD and jump right into the action. In like how you have done the interaction with the towns and the locals so the PC's would really feel at home. However, I am going to borrow some of your ideas. When the PC's finally do make it out to the towns, don't be surprised if some of the NPC's look familiar. :D I hope by the time I'm done, and they are ready to move out to into the rest of Faerun, that they still consider this area their home. I was thinking of having a few Portals located near Vraath Keep. I fully expect them to claim the Keep once this is over. (And as an epilog to the module, I'll have the last stronghold of the Red Hand be holed up in the rebuilt Vraath Keep. Imagine them having to assault the place twice! :evillaugh) Maghwi - I'm overjoyed to have inspired someone. By all means, borrow away! I actually started my PCs at 2nd level. It was a compromise I made with myself, although when I think about it now, it probably wouldn't have made much difference starting them at 1st level (only 1,000 XP more ...). I explained it away by saying that they'd spent the previous year or so guarding caravans on the Dawn Way between Dennovar and Brindol. At least, Berandd did. They decided that Baz and Tharlas are both mutual friends of Berandd's (but aren't friends with each other), but they have yet to figure out the details of their collective backstory ... I'm really very impatient to start RHoD properly ... but at the same time, I'm committed to building up a sense of place for my players so that any victory against the Red Hand will be all the sweeter. When I originally read through the module and found that it presupposes random adventurers passing through the vale, I thought, "How generic. What if the PCs came from Elsir Vale, thus making it their homeland they were fighting to save rather than some random populated area to which they have no connection?" The other handy thing is that Elsir Vale is a well-fleshed out area to begin with, so I haven't had to do much with it to make it "come alive" in the minds of the players. I actually transcribed all of the background and history for Elsir Vale (leaving out the info that only I should know, of course) and Brindol into Word documents and gave them to my players as handouts. I'm pretty sure they still think I came up with it all myself! I also gave them jpegs of the Elsir Vale and Brindol maps and no one's seemed to notice that both have a Red Hand emblem for the compass marker. |
| Caligula11-10-06, 07:42 PM | You can also use extensive roleplaying like we do during the game, which will also create a bond between the PCs and NPCs. My players are already bond to the people of Drellins Ferry and to some extent also to the Tiri Kitor elves. |
| pukunui11-10-06, 08:03 PM | You can also use extensive roleplaying like we do during the game, which will also create a bound between the PCs and NPCs. My players are already bound to the people of Drellins Ferry and to some extent also to the Tiri Kitor elves. Yes, that's what I've been doing as part of my "prologue". My players PCs' have bonded with a number of NPCs in Dauth now (not so much with Prosser, although they do have a named contact there ...). I feel it will be ultimately more rewarding for my players than if I'd had them be random heroes who happen to be passing through a place that's about to be attacked by a huge army. |
| Coven11-12-06, 01:22 PM | I'm waiting to see how things goes for you when you start Red Hand, I like reading how other groups differed from the one I'm playing in. I ran a long campaign that started in Jan and ran once a week ending just last month going from 1-19 level, Sunless Citidel - Bastion of Broken Souls (Ashardalon is cool, go Meepo with his own mini now, Vampire that used an undead dragon heart as a coffin, Asharadalon offspring). Only one PC was alive at the end, and every player had several dead characters by the end with two TPK, one with the Blue Dragon familiy at Lord of the Iron Fortress, the other in Bastion of Broken Souls against the former god now Titan. Now I'm the one playing in Red Hand and have a fun time with it. |
| pukunui11-23-06, 04:55 AM | Tonight's session was the second-to-last one that I'll be hosting before the end of the year. We're not playing at all next week because it's my daughter's 1st birthday that day and we won't be playing for two weeks in December because my parents are coming down to New Zealand for Christmas. Hooray! Anyway, on to business. I went back and calculated how many days they've been traveling. I'll start keeping a roster of that from now on (although I'll start over once they activate the RHoD clock). Session time: 2 hours (:() Timeline: Days 13-16 Dramatis Personae Tharlas - male elf druid 3 (PC) Bazzanar Sternharp - male halfling beguiler 3 (PC) Berandd Stromgaarde - male dwarf fighter 3 (PC) Thor Kopman - male half-elf expert 7 (NPC – Berandd’s uncle and the PCs’ current employer) Seraphina "Sera" Ryethresher - female halfling favored soul 1 (NPC ally) Keth Helden - male half-orc sorceror 1 (NPC ally) Once morning arrived in the abandoned village, the travelers quickly packed up their things and skidaddled. Throughout the day, they kept getting the feeling that they were being watched and/or followed (goosebumps on the back of their necks, vague humanoid shapes glimpsed out of the corners of their eyes, etc). Then, in the middle of the night while they were camping, both Tharlas and Berandd awoke feeling feverish. However, that morning they were determined to press on, although Thor offered to let them ride in the cart instead of walking. That night neither invalid got any worse than before - in fact, they started to feel a bit better. Their immune systems were working properly. However, when they awoke in the morning, they found a lone arrow stuck into the grass at the top of the low hill below which they had been camping. None of them could quite figure out how it had gotten there, and so they hurriedly got back on the road. The day turned out to be a real scorcher, the first one of the summer. The sensation of being followed led Berandd to don his full plate, despite the heat and his fever. Fortunately he suffered no ill effects. Built Dwarf Tough, that one is. ;) Half a day later, they had entered the hills surrounding Hillwatch. They spotted some dehydrated sheep and some dried up lakebeds on their way into town. They also noticed a distinct lack of people, but this was explained as they got into the center of town and heard quite a commotion coming from the local Church of Pelor. As they entered, they saw a portly man in refined clothes (albeit somewhat tattered and with food stains) and a taller, better groomed man in cleaner clothes sitting behind a table. A large congregation of villagers clustered in front of the table. Some sort of argument was going on and the fat man pounded his fist on the table and yelled out "Something must be done about this!" Just then the well-groomed man recognized Thor and called for silence. The travelers pressed forward and all were introduced. The well-groomed man turned out to be Jerrosil Indo, a local wealthy rancher who takes travelers in since the town has no inn. The fat man was introduced as Town Speaker Mort Trilby. Jerrosil was quite glad that the travelers had shown up when they did, as the meeting was to discuss what could be done about a group of bandits terrorizing the town. Immediately, the PCs agreed to help out, although Town Speaker Trilby made it absolutely clear that the town couldn't afford to pay them. As it turns out, the bandits had somehow gotten their hands on a magical device that could soak up a huge amount of water -- and in revenge for the town's earlier attempt to wipe them out, the bandits had sucked up all the water in the nearby lakes, depriving the townsfolk of much-needed water during the drought. That night, the PCs stayed at Jerrosil's ranch. At dinner, he explained to them the particulars of the town's plight and suggested they go look around the most recently drained lake for tracks. Several local shepherds had seen the bandits draining the lakes, but no one was brave enough to track down their lair. Tharlas then asked for some bowls -- his intention to place them under some shrubs and catch the morning dew in order to fill up his waterskin. A rather innovative request ... I honored it, and Tharlas got four wooden bowls and some water off the plants' leaves the next morning. (Should I award some bonus XP for this interesting little bit of roleplaying?) After breakfast on Day 16, Tharlas, Berandd, Baz, and Sera struck out to find the bandits, leaving Thor and Keth behind at the ranch. They arrived at the dried up lake 45 minutes later and had very little trouble finding the large number of footprints in the mud. Tharlas tracked the footprints all the way back to the bandit lair - which took about 3 hours. The entrance was a small cave in the side of a steep hill, sheltered by several pine trees. As they approached, they spotted a large giant trying to hide behind one of the trees rather unsuccessfully. They quickly swooped in and surrounded the creature, which Tharlas identified as an ogre. Caught by surprise and unable to move well what with the hill, the trees, and the PCs, the ogre fell quickly. No one objected when Baz suggested finishing it off -- no mercy for a murderous ogre bandit. Unsure of what to do with such a large corpse, they decided to leave it where it fell. They then proceeded into the cave, Baz casting light on himself and checking for traps as he went along. The cave began as a very narrow passage, but soon opened into a larger cave with a 4ft-high wall made of stacked stones running the length of it. No sooner had Berandd entered but three dog-faced creatures popped up from behind the wall and fired arrows at him. Fortunately, they all missed terribly. Baz rushed into the room and shot one with his crossbow. Then a pair of orcs came rushing around the corner of the wall straight at Berandd, but the sworn orc-hater cut them both down as they drew within range. The heroes rushed around the corner and started attacking the gnolls, which freaked out and withdrew out a back passage, barking out "Intruders!" as they went. That's where we ended. Next session will be sometime during the second week of December. I'm hoping to do an extra-long session then so we can finish up "Dry Spell". Then we'll probably need another session to deal with the elf ranger's stormy confrontation. Then they'll be back in Brindol and will be able to start RHoD properly. So hopefully we'll be starting RHoD either late January or early February! Berandd's player is intending for him to multiclass as a cleric of Fharlanghn, so my plan is for him to meet up with a wandering dwarf cleric who will agree to take him on a journey (remember, the destination is the journey). The dwarf has sworn a vow of nonviolence. My intention is that they'll journey west along the Dawn Way, and unless my dice prove otherwise, when the Red Hand marauders attack outside of Drellin's Ferry, the dwarf cleric will give his life to save the PCs, and Berandd will most likely want to continue the journey in his mentor's honor, which will take them to Drellin's Ferry and then the countdown will begin! That's all for now. Cheers. |
| Prub11-23-06, 09:24 AM | I recognize that mini adventure.. good one I almost ran it for my group LOL. |
| pukunui11-23-06, 01:53 PM | Yeah - it's just a "kill some monsters and score some loot" deal. But it should give them enough XP to level up. :D |
| snowcone11-30-06, 08:51 PM | Looking forward to the next update. My group only meets every other week as well, which is not enough for me to get my dnd fix, oh well. Congratz on your daughters bday or soon to be bday, my son just had his first as well. |
| Caligula11-30-06, 08:56 PM | 2-hour long session....Pukunui, I can feel your suffering all the way to the cold north.... :D Wont you guys have some extra gaming time during Christmas after your parents leave? |
| pukunui12-01-06, 12:56 AM | Looking forward to the next update. My group only meets every other week as well, which is not enough for me to get my dnd fix, oh well.At the end of last session, they said, "Is now a good time to stop?" I said, "It's never a good time to stop." Congratz on your daughters bday or soon to be bday, my son just had his first as well.Thanks. It was yesterday, although we had a little "party" on Sunday. 2-hour long session....Pukunui, I can feel your suffering all the way to the cold north.... :D Wont you guys have some extra gaming time during Christmas after your parents leave?Thanks for the sympathy, C-Man. Always appreciated. I'm hoping to get an extra-long session in before my parents arrive. They'll be here till the end of the year. Hopefully we'll be able to get some extra gaming in during summer holidays in January. Then both my sister-in-law and I are going back to school at the end of February (she'll be doing her undergrad degree part-time, but I'm going to be doing teacher's training full-time). I'm planning on continuing to DM - once we get into RHoD proper, I won't have to do as much prep, so it shouldn't be too difficult. My sis-in-law isn't sure she's going to continue DMing, though, so I might get to DM every week instead of every other! If that happens, then I won't mind so much if the sessions are still short. |
| Asteryx12-01-06, 06:40 PM | just think ahead. The little ones grow up fast. Mine did and now I have 2 more players + 1 in training (8years old) |
| pukunui12-01-06, 07:42 PM | just think ahead. The little ones grow up fast. Mine did and now I have 2 more players + 1 in training (8years old) True ... :plotting: |
| Caligula12-02-06, 09:21 AM | If I ever get "small ones" they will be put in hardcore D&D school from year 4! :cool: |
| pukunui12-15-06, 06:51 PM | Why is it that every time I go to post a recap, the boards go down? :rant: The session we had last night will be my last session before the end of the year (and my last for what looks to be at least 4 weeks due to the holidays and whatnot). ~~:cip:~~ Session time: 3.5 hours (:)) Timeline: Day 16 Dramatis Personae Tharlas - male elf druid 3 (PC) Bazzanar Sternharp - male halfling beguiler 3 (PC) Berandd Stromgaarde - male dwarf fighter 3 (PC) Sera Ryethresher - female halfling favored soul 1 (NPC ally) ~~:cip:~~ Picking up where we left off, the intrepid heroes decided to pursue the fleeing gnolls deeper into the cave complex. Following the yips and howls, they trekked down a narrow passageway that ended in a T-intersection. The passage to the right was partially blocked by rubble, but the passage to the left was clear and ran straight for 30ft before opening into another large cavern. After some humming and hawing, Tharlas decided to cast light on an arrow and then fire it into the room (it being completely unlit - the bandits residing within relying on their darkvision to see). This provided enough illumination to reveal an open room with piles of furs and skins lining the walls. They could also hear some noises but could not see anything in the section of cavern visible from the T-intersection ... Baz volunteered to go first. He stuck his head into the cavern and almost had it taken off by a javelin flung in his direction. Before pulling his head back, he was able to count three gnolls, three goblins, and four orcs inside the cave, all poised and ready for a fight. Naturally, a fight was what happened next. I won't go into the nitty-gritty details, but suffice it to say that while the gnolls stood to one side, firing arrows at the heroes, the orcs and goblins closed ranks, forming a bottleneck at the entrance to the cavern. Berandd, living up to his reputation as an orc-slayer, took down most of the bandits with great swings of his axe. He took several hits of his own, though, but Sera came to his rescue, giving him a minor blessing from Olidammara in the form of a cure light wounds spell to keep him up and in the fight. When the bandits were down to just two gnolls and one goblin, they surrendered. The heroes decided to let them live so long as they told them everything they knew about their leader and his whereabouts and then agreed to leave the caves (although they were told they could come back after the heroes had finished here). The bandits claimed that they'd never been down the passage leading to Relgore's lair, but they believed it to be dangerous in some way. Tharlas gave them some of his trail rations and then the heroes escorted them out of the cave. They searched the bandits' belongings and found some gold as well as a "small finely-wrought gold bracelet", which Tharlas wanted to give to Sera but he was foiled when Berandd got his hands on it first and stuffed it in his backpack. (The players had an interesting little in-character exchange here about how Tharlas and Baz thought it would suit Sera better, being female, whereas Berandd maintained that he had a better idea of its worth, etc etc. Rather humorous.) The heroes then cleared the rubble from the other passage and cautiously progressed down its length until it turned almost 180 degrees and widened into a 15ft wide corridor. The floor here, they noted, was covered in rubble and dirt rather than being bare rock. This should have tipped them off that something was amiss, but unfortunately Baz failed to figure out what was wrong and went crashing through a weak spot in the floor. He fell 30ft before landing, bruised and battered but alive, in a similarly-shaped chamber directly below the passageway. After rescuing him, Tharlas decided to go first, edging his way along the passageway's edge until he got to the far side, where the tunnel narrowed again. There he too fell through into the cavern below. After another rescue, the heroes all downed the cure moderate wounds potions given to them by the head priest in Prosser. With all the ruckus going on in the passageway, what with all the falling heroes and such, Relgore and his orc bodyguards had plenty of warning and were able to hide themselves in niches behind some old tapestries in the bandit leader's lair. Thus, when the heroes entered the chamber, there was no one to be seen -- just some piles of furs and two large statues of snake-headed people (yuan-ti). They investigated the nearest statue and found it to be hollow albeit filled with what they estimated to be 50 gallons of water. They wondered whether this was water from Hillwatch's dried up lakes. Just as they were about to begin searching the rest of the room, they heard a gruff voice yell out, "I smell bounty hunters!" followed by a deep growl and "You'll never take me alive!" At the opposite end of the room, Relgore the bugbear barbarian, in full rage, came leaping out from behind a ratty tapestry. Two orcs also leapt out from behind tapestries. They acted first, tossing their javelins at Berandd the dwarven orc-slayer. Both missed. For some odd reason, Berandd (who was not at full health) reacted by charging Relgore instead of the orcs. Sadly, this proved to be his downfall. Relgore put his magical greataxe to good use against Berandd, killing him (-11hp) in two rounds with some very nasty blows indeed. Baz responded by putting both of Relgore's orc bodyguards to sleep and Tharlas summoned up a crocodile. The crocodile attacked Relgore, taking a nasty bite out of the bugbear. The following round, Tharlas summoned up another one. With two crocs tearing chunks out of the BBEG and Baz whelming him, it wasn't long before he slipped into unconsciousness. Baz stepped forward and delivered an emotional coup de grace, crying out, "This one's for Berandd!" Baz then removed Relgore's head and, while searching the bugbear's body, found a sponge that radiated a moderate aura when he cast detect magic on it. The surviving heroes surmised that this was how Relgore had managed to drain the lakes. They tested the theory by using the sponge to suck up all the water stored in the yuan-ti statue and were amazed when only a small amount of water could be squeezed out. Saddened by the loss of their companion (and, dare I say, meatshield? ;)), the heroes trudged forlornly back out of the caves ... As they emerged, Baz spotted a lone figure atop the crest of the hill opposite. It appeared to be watching them, then it turned and disappeared down the other side of the hill. Somewhat unnerved by this, the heroes hurried back to Hillwatch, where they delivered the bad news to Thor and then informed the villagers that Relgore was dead (Town Speaker Trilby ordered that Relgore's head be placed on a stake along the main road out of the village). The villagers also insisted that the magical sponge be destroyed. They tried tossing it in the fires of the blacksmith's forge, and sure enough, it was consumed in a colorful display of dissipating magic. Everyone agreed that it would be best to hurry back to Brindol with Berandd's body so his family could give him a proper funeral. Tharlas and Baz both attained level 4 while Sera reached level 2. All of them will take levels in their current classes. That's where we ended the session. ~~:cip:~~ Berandd's death has kind of thrown a spanner in the works. I was relying on him for story ideas and the like. I'll have to rethink the adventure hook that will get the PCs into RHoD (no more traveling down the Dawn Way with a cleric of Fharlanghn so that Berandd can join the ranks of the traveling god's clergy ...). Also, Berandd's player's new PC will only be level 3 ... so I'm concerned that I will need to find something for them to do in order to get them to an appropriate power level before starting RHoD (with only 3 actual PCs, they'll probably need to be slightly higher-level than recommended rather than lower ...). Grumble grumble grumble ... That's all for now. Cheers, pukunui |
| snakeheadfish3312-18-06, 11:59 AM | Berandd's death has kind of thrown a spanner in the works. I was relying on him for story ideas and the like. I'll have to rethink the adventure hook that will get the PCs into RHoD (no more traveling down the Dawn Way with a cleric of Fharlanghn so that Berandd can join the ranks of the traveling god's clergy ...). Maybe the family would request his body be laid to rest somewheres where the group will have to escort his remains down the Dawn Way. "we know our son would have wanted to be lain to rest in such-a-such place." Then they have to make a pilgrimage with the traveling clergy to the funeral site. I really enjoy watching ... I mean reading ... how these guys gain XP for the start of RHoD. I'm also eager to read some recaps on your experiences with the RedHand. |
| chesspiece12-18-06, 12:39 PM | Also, Berandd's player's new PC will only be level 3 ... so I'm concerned that I will need to find something for them to do in order to get them to an appropriate power level before starting RHoD (with only 3 actual PCs, they'll probably need to be slightly higher-level than recommended rather than lower ...). Grumble grumble grumble ... Bah. Don't let a little detail like dead PCs get in the way of your DM plans. Just let him / her make up a level 4 PC instead. You can say it's an early XMas present and not to expect this treatment on a regular basis. |
| Caligula12-18-06, 08:02 PM | I agree with Chesspiece, your campaign Pukunui is just too well planned to stand or fall with 1 PC. As the other PCs progress in levels they will be able to defend themselves, and the new PC that you throw in will progress quickly if he enters at a lower level. Letting players take responsibility for their PCs death is important for realism and it will make them more nervous and excited in the future when they enter combat and enemy territory. |
| Subversive12-24-06, 11:34 AM | I have never encountered this problem. If you have to give out xp rewards twice for the same enemy, I guess they never overcome the problem in the first case. Hey, I know this is old, but I'm just reading this now. That's not necessarily the case, Cal. I feel that it can be more situational then that. For example, if you defeat a BBEG and lock him up, thus achieving a goal, you deserve XP for that. This is especially true if overcoming him allowed you to gain access to an important item, location, or plot device. If he then escapes with help from friends and comes back to get you and you defeat him again - you deserve XP for that as well. This is especially true if he has advanced a level or two before confronting you again, or if time has passed. Even if he simply runs away without you capturing him, you should get some XP if his fleeing allows you access to an afformentioned plot device. However, the XP award should be lowered if the DM plans to have the BBEG be encountered later (for example: the dragons and Wyrmlords in RHoD). There are also times when you should not award XP. If a ghost has been hounding you, and you are able to defeat her only to have her reincorporate and attack you again a few days later, you do not deserve XP for overcoming the problem. If you are able to put her to rest or otherwise banish/imprison her on the other hand, then you should get a reward. -Steve |
| Caligula12-24-06, 12:12 PM | Well, he cant be locked up and on the run at the same time, now can he? ;) Either he is locked up or he isnt. If he is locked up, the PCs could receive XPs, if he is on the run they cant. But Im quite sure that you meant that he escapes after some time in incarceration, after the PCs have already received their XPs. In that case it will be an entirely new mission/adventure in my opinion. My arguments were in the context of the same mission/adventure. Their first mission was to arrest him and render him incapacitated. Mission is completed when he is locked up and the PCs receive their XP-rewards. Later if he escapes, the PCs can be hired to track him down - I agree. Again they can receive XP-rewards for completing this new mission. My main point here is that DMs should only award XPs once the problem or enemy is overcome or defeated. I think your example with the Ghost is excellent! I never reward XPs for enemies that escape during combat if they can live to fight another day. I think that is plain wrong. They still constitute a threat to the PCs and their cause. The exception would be random encounters where the enemy wont effect the overall situation if they manage to escape. |
| Asteryx12-24-06, 08:04 PM | I try to be generous with XP. I distinguish between two cases of fleeing based on whether the opponent was defeated or checkmated or did he just retreat. I ll illustrate with an example of Vraath Keep. 1) Koth leaves with the map. His life and mission were threatened but he could have chosen to stand his ground and fight more. He decided to not risk too much. No XP 2) Checkmate: Koth fights and is defeated (quite often there s a hp threshlod for that) meaning he has no choice but to flee for his life. Then regardless of whether he gets killed, manages to get out or gets imprisoned, I would award XP. A key factor would be what happens to the map as this is one of the objective. I prefer the checkmate approach as otherwise players might decide to kill opponents just for the meta-reason of getting XP (putting good aligned PC at a disadvantage). Anyway using KIA as a criteria hits a snag when villains gets raise dead & resurrection capabilities. At higher level, just being killed is equivalent to fleeing to fight antoher day. |
| pukunui12-25-06, 04:37 AM | Bah. Don't let a little detail like dead PCs get in the way of your DM plans. Just let him / her make up a level 4 PC instead. You can say it's an early XMas present and not to expect this treatment on a regular basis.Hmm. Interesting idea. It'll have to be an early birthday present instead, though ... it's Christmas Day as I write this, and we won't be playing again for another couple of weeks (and the player whose character just died has his birthday in Feb ...) ;) I agree with Chesspiece, your campaign Pukunui is just too well planned to stand or fall with 1 PC. As the other PCs progress in levels they will be able to defend themselves, and the new PC that you throw in will progress quickly if he enters at a lower level.Thanks for the compliments, but don't you think that two level 4 PCs, one level 3 PC, and one level 2 NPC would be ill-equipped to tackle the initial RHoD encounter, let alone anything else in the module? I might have to run Sons of Gruumsh after all ... cheers, Jonny p.s. merry christmas everyone! |
| Caligula12-25-06, 09:01 AM | Pukunui, my personal opinion is that Sons of Gruumsh is the perfect prequel to RHoD. :thumbsup: That´s the way we went and it worked out just fine. Also, SoG is a great adventure! Leaving documents :gift: from the RHoD guys by the Orc Warlord that tells of an Axis of Evil between the Orcs and the Tiamat Kultists will certainly assure that the players start going. Also, some of the rewards :gift: that the players get from the rich merchant families of Melvaunt included a letter that would guarantee them passage with any of their ships. Thus it would be a perfect way to finance :$$: their voyage from The Moonsea region to the south. I agree that as of now your players charachters are too lightweight and they wont make it. They should be atleast 4 PCs of 5th level. |
| pukunui12-26-06, 03:09 AM | Thanks, C-Man. I think I will do that. I can run a modified Sons of Gruumsh (based in Dennovar instead of Melvaunt and gifting the PCs a map of Vraath Keep instead of free passage on ships [considering that Elsir Vale is basically landlocked]). That way they'll have a chance to reach a more appropriate level for RHoD ... and it shouldn't mess with my timeline too much (from my initial reading, it would seem that SoG only takes a week or two in game-time). Hopefully three PCs (two at level 4 and one at level 3) with one NPC at level 2 will be able to handle the foes in SoG. |
| Caligula12-26-06, 11:06 AM | Thanks, C-Man. I think I will do that. I can run a modified Sons of Gruumsh (based in Dennovar instead of Melvaunt and gifting the PCs a map of Vraath Keep instead of free passage on ships [considering that Elsir Vale is basically landlocked]). That way they'll have a chance to reach a more appropriate level for RHoD ... and it shouldn't mess with my timeline too much (from my initial reading, it would seem that SoG only takes a week or two in game-time). Hopefully three PCs (two at level 4 and one at level 3) with one NPC at level 2 will be able to handle the foes in SoG. Pukunui, I got to be straight with you. :angelhide That group sounds a little wee bit to weak for SoG. When we played it we found it quite a challenge for the recommended 4 PCs of 4th level.... :banghead: I wouldnt recommend anyone going in there with less than that. The adventure needs the PCs to infiltrate :incog: a castle guarded by strong :fight!: Orcish forces and the mission needs to be swift. The PCs dont have any chance to rest or refit themselves during the infiltration and the final battle :duel: is extremely hard, especially if Thrull manages to complete his Orc Warlord ritual - which he did in our game! We were pretty close to a TPK in fact, but as usual my players pulled out a rabbit of the hat.... :shocked: If you want to read a first hand recap of how SoG can be played out, please see my other thread "Sons of Gruumsh - share your experiences" :tie: here at the Adventure Boards. |
| pukunui12-26-06, 01:05 PM | I think I might make SoG a bit easier then. I was originally planning to downplay the "gathering horde" part and put all the emphasis on "rescuing the rich kids" - so I think I'll continue with that and take out some of the orcs here and there in the fortress. Maybe make Thrull a little easier. Leave out the betrayal thing at the end with Thrull's brother ... etc. Alternatively, I could let the PCs go "gestalt" during their upcoming downtime. That might give them a better chance of surviving. I know that 3 gestalt PCs wouldn't be exactly the same as 6 regular PCs, but it might at least be as good as 4 regular PCs ... Any thoughts on that? I don't know if my players would want to go gestalt, but I'd like to explore it as possible solution to the fact that we've only got 3 players. |
| Caligula12-26-06, 07:07 PM | Well Im not sure really. I really liked the part where in the end the PCs are surprised by the treachery as they sit down and have dinner. My players were extremely surprised as they were sipping wine and eating a fine meal together with their benefactor. Suddenly hooded snipers enter the balcony and starts firing on them. Priceless! :devil: I think you should try and find a way to get your PCs up a level or two. Perhaps using a short adventire from Wizards website? |
| Subversive12-30-06, 12:09 AM | I wish, Prub. But someone's gotta look after the munchkin (who, incidentally, has just learned how to walk ... we're in trouble now!). Plus, our regular babysitter is also part of my d&d group. So that ain't gonna happen for a while at least. I'm not saying it'll never happen though. My wife did express an interest in finding out about d&d recently. She asked me to show her how to make a character (she made an elf druid with a wolf companion ... :rolleyes:). Pukunui, I have a similar situation to you: gaming group that has trouble meeting and a 15 month old with speedy legs and a head full of trouble. We've found that it's best to have the games at our place, which gets pretty tight being a one bedroom apartment and all but works. The boy gets to walk around unless he gets too cranky, but often just enjoyes playing with toys in his playpen. The fact that he takes a 2-3 hour nap when we're playing helps, and he goes to bed around 9. It's not perfect, and my wife has to hold onto him at times while I'm DMing and he wants attention, but it works ok... I would kill for a bigger place though! -Steve |
| Subversive12-30-06, 12:26 AM | My main point here is that DMs should only award XPs once the problem or enemy is overcome or defeated. I think your example with the Ghost is excellent! I never reward XPs for enemies that escape during combat if they can live to fight another day. I think that is plain wrong. They still constitute a threat to the PCs and their cause. The exception would be random encounters where the enemy wont effect the overall situation if they manage to escape. Right! On the same token, if you encounter a ghost blocking your route to a goal and can overcome it to atchieve that goal, even if you have not put it to rest you still deserve XP for solving the problem. -Steve |
| pukunui12-30-06, 02:31 AM | Pukunui, I have a similar situation to you: gaming group that has trouble meeting and a 15 month old with speedy legs and a head full of trouble. We've found that it's best to have the games at our place, which gets pretty tight being a one bedroom apartment and all but works. The boy gets to walk around unless he gets too cranky, but often just enjoyes playing with toys in his playpen. The fact that he takes a 2-3 hour nap when we're playing helps, and he goes to bed around 9. It's not perfect, and my wife has to hold onto him at times while I'm DMing and he wants attention, but it works ok... I would kill for a bigger place though! -Steve Steve, We've tried playing at our place, but my daughter doesn't want to go to bed when we're playing. She wants to stay up and see what we're doing. So we have to play at my sister-in-law's apartment instead. Cheers, Jonny |
| Caligula12-30-06, 09:09 AM | Steve, We've tried playing at our place, but my daughter doesn't want to go to bed when we're playing. She wants to stay up and see what we're doing. So we have to play at my sister-in-law's apartment instead. Cheers, Jonny Can't the little cutie join in when you play? Or perhaps it's not a good idea letting a child hear "let's cut the ears off that bloodthirsty orch".... :D Last summer we played in my living room, and out on the backyard the neighbours :pile: had a "neighbours-meeting". I live on the ground floor and we had the windows open. A fierce battle :duel: commenced and my cousin was standing up screaming :censored: as he got hit by an Orcs axe: "That motherf***er! Im going to draw my axe and cut his god d*mn head off!!!" There was complete silence :mymy: out on the backyard. My neighbours looked nervously :bigeyes: towards my apartment for a long while. I stood up and waved at them trying to smile a bit :blush: before someone went to call the cops.... Nowadays they look strangely towards my apartment when 4-5 grown men :incog: come to my place after dark every Monday at 5 pm, carrying large bags or cases..... :D |
| pukunui12-30-06, 08:53 PM | Can't the little cutie join in when you play? Or perhaps it's not a good idea letting a child hear "let's cut the ears off that bloodthirsty orch".... :D Last summer we played in my living room, and out on the backyard the neighbours :pile: had a "neighbours-meeting". I live on the ground floor and we had the windows open. A fierce battle :duel: commenced and my cousin was standing up screaming :censored: as he got hit by an Orcs axe: "That motherf***er! Im going to draw my axe and cut his god d*mn head off!!!" There was complete silence :mymy: out on the backyard. My neighbours looked nervously :bigeyes: towards my apartment for a long while. I stood up and waved at them trying to smile a bit :blush: before someone went to call the cops.... Nowadays they look strangely towards my apartment when 4-5 grown men :incog: come to my place after dark every Monday at 5 pm, carrying large bags or cases..... :D :rofl: That's funny. No, I don't think it would be a good idea for wee little Ingrid to join in. She's only 13 months old, so she'd only want to "help" ... if you catch my drift. Anyway, we play after her bedtime. We must set a good example as parents by making sure she goes to bed at the same time every night ... etc etc. When she's a bit older, I might be able to convince my wife to play, at which point we will finally have a four-PC party. But that'll be a while yet, I think, if it ever happens. |
| Caligula12-30-06, 09:25 PM | Oh, I see. Anyway, congrats on chosing s beautiful nice Swedish name, "Ingrid". Is your wife by any chance Swedish or do you just like old Ingrid Bergman movies? :D -Play it again sam! |
| pukunui12-30-06, 10:04 PM | Oh, I see. Anyway, congrats on chosing s beautiful nice Swedish name, "Ingrid". Is your wife by any chance Swedish or do you just like old Ingrid Bergman movies? :D -Play it again sam! My wife is a Kiwi. One of my great-grandfathers on my mother's side was Swedish. My mother's maiden name is Odhner. We always used to dance around the tree and sing Swedish songs at Christmas time. We've got some of those little Swedish horses ... so anyway, we named her Ingrid because we wanted to honor my Swedish heritage. Plus, it's a beautiful name. :D So anyway ... on the topic of my thread, I've tentatively decided to waive my "new PC" rule (or get rid of it altogether) and let my player roll up a new one at level 4. Then I'll get them into a stripped down version of Sons of Gruumsh in order to beef them up a bit before getting into RHoD. I'm thinking they should probably be around levels 6-7 before starting since there are only three of them and they aren't too keen on having NPCs around ... - Jonny |
| Subversive12-31-06, 12:11 AM | :rofl: That's funny. No, I don't think it would be a good idea for wee little Ingrid to join in. She's only 13 months old, so she'd only want to "help" ... if you catch my drift. Anyway, we play after her bedtime. We must set a good example as parents by making sure she goes to bed at the same time every night ... etc etc. When she's a bit older, I might be able to convince my wife to play, at which point we will finally have a four-PC party. But that'll be a while yet, I think, if it ever happens. Pukunui, alas, that isn't a problem for my son Cooper. He's very good at going to bed. Even if he gets upset a bit, he quiets down within a few minutes. Then again, at the present his bedtime is 9:00 to 9:30, so maybe this is different from your situation... -Steve |
| gamertall01-01-07, 12:00 PM | Pukunui, I am still enjoying the recaps of your adventures. I wish the games I have been in felt so"rich" in content and background. As to running 'Sons of Gruumsh', my suggection is to place Xul-Jarak northeast out beyond the Marth Forest and the Giant Shield mountains. Technically, that would place the fortress 'off the map', but it would allow for the feel of a dangerous trek through the wilderness. You could have the House scions from families in Dennovar, Marthton, and Elsircross. The 'leaders' of those towns could sufficiently re-create the feeling of fueding families and political intrigue that SoG starts out with. The plenty of travel that the PCs would do between the towns to speak with the families of the missing 'scions' could help advance the timeline towards the RHoD. The ambush scenario that happens at the end of the investigation could be perfectly placed anywhere between the above three towns, as well. The large number of dwarves and half-orcs in Red Rock allow for no changes to the races of the pro-and ant-agonists so they can still have a chance to receive 'help' in the wilderness. I would also suggest using only the fortress part of Xul-Jarak, so that you can better control how much XP the PCs get. You may even have to reduce the number of Orcs in the fortress. The rain storm and fog can be recreated due to a 'summer squall'. I so wish that I could be the 4th PC in your campaign. I'm looking forward to your next recap. A reminder that the above is only a suggestion and idea. |
| Caligula01-01-07, 01:22 PM | My wife is a Kiwi. One of my great-grandfathers on my mother's side was Swedish. My mother's maiden name is Odhner. We always used to dance around the tree and sing Swedish songs at Christmas time. We've got some of those little Swedish horses ... so anyway, we named her Ingrid because we wanted to honor my Swedish heritage. Plus, it's a beautiful name. :D So anyway ... on the topic of my thread, I've tentatively decided to waive my "new PC" rule (or get rid of it altogether) and let my player roll up a new one at level 4. Then I'll get them into a stripped down version of Sons of Gruumsh in order to beef them up a bit before getting into RHoD. I'm thinking they should probably be around levels 6-7 before starting since there are only three of them and they aren't too keen on having NPCs around ... - Jonny That's funny, one of my friends familyname is "Odhner". :) Another funny thing: The Swedish name "Ingrid" is popular in Mexico and Latin America a lot of girls are named that by their mothers who saw "Casablanca" and cried to Humphrey Bohart and Ingrid Bergman...:D The horses are called "Dala-horses" btw.... Kind of cute, aren't they? :D Back to RHoD, I would say 3 PCs of 7th level rather than 6th. This is a tough module as you know and already the first encounter "Marauder Attack" will test your 3 players real good! I think Jorr would be the ideal companion for your players early on. I know they don't like NPC followers, but Jorr does offer a whole lot of help - not the least to travel fast and safe through the Witchwood and surrounding areas. As the module states, you should have Norro Wiston or Captain Sorranna Anitah underscore this. That way your players will still have the final word. |
| pukunui01-01-07, 03:19 PM | Pukunui, I am still enjoying the recaps of your adventures. I wish the games I have been in felt so"rich" in content and background.Thanks, GT! I'm still enjoying writing them ... As to running 'Sons of Gruumsh', my suggection is to place Xul-Jarak northeast out beyond the Marth Forest and the Giant Shield mountains. Technically, that would place the fortress 'off the map', but it would allow for the feel of a dangerous trek through the wilderness.It's funny you should say that because that's pretty much exactly where I was going to put it! :D You could have the House scions from families in Dennovar, Marthton, and Elsircross. The 'leaders' of those towns could sufficiently re-create the feeling of fueding families and political intrigue that SoG starts out with. The plenty of travel that the PCs would do between the towns to speak with the families of the missing 'scions' could help advance the timeline towards the RHoD. The ambush scenario that happens at the end of the investigation could be perfectly placed anywhere between the above three towns, as well. The large number of dwarves and half-orcs in Red Rock allow for no changes to the races of the pro-and ant-agonists so they can still have a chance to receive 'help' in the wilderness.This is actually a really good idea. I was just going to have all the noble families be in Dennovar, but it could be rather fun to have them be in different towns -- and also it'll get my players traveling through even more of the Vale before it comes time to defend it. I like it! :ayyyy!: I would also suggest using only the fortress part of Xul-Jarak, so that you can better control how much XP the PCs get. You may even have to reduce the number of Orcs in the fortress. The rain storm and fog can be recreated due to a 'summer squall'.Do you mean leave out the dungeon part and just use the fortress part? I was actually thinking the other way around ... the fortress is rather large and I don't like the multi-story aspect of it. It's giving me a battlemat headache. I think I'd rather have the fortress still be in ruins, with maybe just a handful of guards sprinkled around, and then have the main event be below ground. I so wish that I could be the 4th PC in your campaign.I wish you could be as well! :D That's funny, one of my friends familyname is "Odhner". :)Seriously? I wonder if we're related ... it wouldn't be very close. My great-grandfather Odhner left Sweden in the early 20th century (he was a socialist ...) and came to America where he married the daughter of a disowned suffragette who could trace her heritage back to the displaced French Huguenots. Believe me, I have a very interesting family history ... ;) The horses are called "Dala-horses" btw.... Kind of cute, aren't they? :DThat's right. I couldn't remember at the time. I've got three of them (two big ones to represent my wife and me and one little one to represent Ingrid ... when I was growing up, my parents had two big ones and four little ones). Back to RHoD, I would say 3 PCs of 7th level rather than 6th. This is a tough module as you know and already the first encounter "Marauder Attack" will test your 3 players real good!Good to know. We'll see how it all goes down ... I think Jorr would be the ideal companion for your players early on. I know they don't like NPC followers, but Jorr does offer a whole lot of help - not the least to travel fast and safe through the Witchwood and surrounding areas. As the module states, you should have Norro Wiston or Captain Sorranna Anitah underscore this. That way your players will still have the final word.I agree. Hopefully my players will take the hint and allow Jorr to come on board. I think the fact that he's well-written and has a reasonable hook (he knows the area and can show the PCs shortcuts and the like) means that they'll most likely take up on hiring him. I was thinking of compensating by having more than one NPC ally along with them ... but I don't think they like that idea much. Plus it does make it harder for me to keep track of things during combat ... |
| Asteryx01-02-07, 01:01 PM | when i have only have 3 players, I allow the one with a cleric to play a 2nd PC. Since the cleric often just heals over and over, it gives him a chance to do something else. oh yeah ensure there`s at least one cleric otherwise the game will last 1 hour and it`s over. |
| pukunui01-02-07, 02:14 PM | when i have only have 3 players, I allow the one with a cleric to play a 2nd PC. Since the cleric often just heals over and over, it gives him a chance to do something else. oh yeah ensure there`s at least one cleric otherwise the game will last 1 hour and it`s over. You know, I really wish my sister-in-law had seen the sense in that when we first started her campaign ... I rolled up a cleric because I figured we needed one, but I didn't really want to play it, so I asked if I could have a second character, but she just flat out said no because I would play favorites with one to the detriment of the other. So instead I convinced her to let me play a rogue. As for my campaign, the group doesn't have a cleric. My sister-in-law is playing a druid, and the current NPC ally is a favored soul (albeit only level 2, whereas the others are level 4). The now-deceased Berandd was going to multiclass as a cleric later on. |
| pukunui01-07-07, 02:00 AM | OK, folks ... I've come up with a plan! The Prologue's Epilogue: Baz, Tharlas, Thor, Keth, and Sera hurry back to Brindol with Berandd's body. On the way, they stop in Prosser, where the head priest of Pelor, Duncam Rolwit, casts gentle repose on Berandd's corpse so that it will stop decomposing long enough for the party to get back to Brindol and bury it. Upon hearing the news, Clan Stromgaarde goes into mourning. Berandd is given a proper burial according to urban dwarf traditions. He is interred in the Stromgaarde family plot in Brindol Cemetery, dressed in his full plate and with his greataxe (nicknamed "Orcslayer") laid on his chest. At the funeral, Baz and Tharlas are introduced to an associate of Berandd's, one Nikos Whitehorn. Nikos is a human, originally from the barbarian lands to the north of Elsir Vale -- however, when he was little, he was captured by slavers and taken south. He eventually escaped and fell in with a group of Fharlanghn's traveling clergy. Their journey brought him to Brindol, where he begrudgingly took up work as a mercenary guarding caravans on the Dawn Way. There he met and befriended Berandd, a fellow devotee of the god of roads. Recently, Nikos formally entered the clergy, becoming a cleric of Fharlanghn. Here's the rub: Baz and Tharlas, despite having only just attained 4th level, will earn enough XP as a story-completion award to bump them up to 5th level. Although I am slightly worried about them falling behind on the "character wealth by level" chart (see my other thread on this topic ...), I have nevertheless decided that this is the most expedient way of beginning RHoD sooner rather than later. Nikos will enter the fray as a 5th level character (barbarian 2/fighter 2/cleric of Fharlanghn 1) as well. As payment for successfully guarding Thor on his journey through the southern part of the Vale, I was to give each of the three PCs a minor magic item (one each from: cloak of resistance +1, badge of valor, and quiver of Ehlonna). However, with one PC dead, I'm not sure whether I should change the gifts or just let them pick one out of the three or what. I'd like to give Tharlas the quiver, but Baz hardly needs anything (his total wealth, counting the +1 keen rapier, is more than what a 5th level character should have anyway ...). Nevertheless, I need to give him something in order to be fair. Now, to begin the next story arc, I need to devise a way to get Nikos into the party - just introducing him to the others at Berandd's funeral doesn't really do it for me. I need to come up with a reason for them to travel together. Once I've got that sorted out, I'm going to allow some weeks to pass so that it is midsummer. In that time, the Stromgaarde family will have been sorting through Berandd's "estate", as it were, and will come across an old map he'd inherited from his grandfather (along with some others) but which had been mislaid and thus forgotten ... it is a map of Vraath Keep. I think just getting the map will be incentive enough for my players, but I won't tell them anything about it. I'll let them try to find out more about it. I'm also considering having Lady Kaal take an interest in Baz (perhaps she knows his real name and uses it to blackmail him into helping her?). What I was thinking of having her have him do is "investigate" her competition in the western end of the Vale - namely, what's-her-name in Drellin's Ferry. The one who's actually an evil cleric of Erythnul or something. Caligula used her as a sort of sidequest for his group. Can't remember her name. Anyway, I was thinking that Lady Kaal would "hire" Baz to help her eliminate the competition - by threatening to expose his true identity to those who are looking for him. If he succeeds, she'll offer him a place in her organization. This way, they'll have reason to go to Drellin's Ferry if the map of Vraath Keep proves not to be enough of an incentive for them. So what, my dear readers, do you think of all of this? Cheers, Jonny EDIT 1: As a point of interest, I thought I'd mention that I've made a few changes to my campaign rules ... I'm giving everyone max hit points at every level, and I've also introduced the Traits and Flaws from Unearthed Arcana. I've made a few other cosmetic changes to my rules (like introducing the option of 32 Point Buy in addition to rolling 5d6 during character creation) and I've banned Natural Spell. EDIT 2: I'm thinking of making my players accept an NPC ally to fill out the party ranks - thus increasing their survivability in RHoD significantly - but I'm not sure what would be the best sort of character. I feel it's probably best to keep it simple, but they've already got the "meatshield" role covered (the druid and the barbarian/fighter/cleric can handle that). They've also got the healing covered (again the druid and the b/f/c can handle that between the two of them) and the trapfinding (the beguiler). What they need is some sort of blaster (whether it be arcane magic or psionics), but I'm hesitant to force one of those types on them as they tend to be more complicated to run and hog more of the limelight. Any ideas? |
| Caligula01-07-07, 08:00 AM | Pukunui, I will give you my honest opinion as always. :) First, I think it is okay when need be to bump PCs a level. That is how I handled 2 under-level PCs before the battle of Rhest. I allowed them to progress from 4th to 5th level since I knew the party would stand no chance at all otherwise. I used meta-logics to do so, and later when these PCs were awarded enough XP to level twice I only allowed him to level once as per the PHB rule of "Excess points are lost" p.58. In a way you can say I paid them these XP upfront when levelling them to 5th before the battle. And I think this is a good and logical way to handle it. Give them enough XP to level, but make them "pay" by awarding a little less XP later, or even have them lose these excess XPs when levelling. I only use this as a last resort emergency however. When no other sollutions remain. I'm a hardcore RAW DM and I always try to solve these problems with in-game mechanics. Perhaps throwing in a little side-quest that may generate some extra XP to bump up to the minimum level needed. Also, I want the players to make the final decision about which path to follow. I don't want to make decisions for them. Regarding magic items, I would like to see it as they pay for these extra XP you give them for free by not automatically receiving the appropriate magic treasure for the level. In RHoD I used the hangout "Velorian's" to have some dance-competitions, a debating club, and what not. The winner of a competition won a magic item appropriate for the evening's entertainment. The winner of the dancing-contest won Boots of Striding, the winner of the debating-club won a Periapt of Charisma, etc. If you want one of your characters to have a magic bow, make him join an Arching-contest at the town market and "fight" for his bow. The competitors do not have to be expert marksmen, but there should be a chance that he doesn't win in my view. The win chance should be around 50%. SPOILERS ALERT BELOW - SPOILERS ALERT BELOW - The name of the evil kultist is Jarett Nurth, but remember that according to the module her identity and evil worshiping is unknown. I doubt whether Lady Kaal knows of her according to the module as written, but ofcourse you can change this as you please. Jarett is considered a hard-working and appreciated member of the community. So much more exciting when the bodies of her murders start turning up in Drellin's Ferry! I had her start out as a serial killer and the players got nervous as more bodies turned up over time. First they thought it was the RHoD spy, but as they uncovered the secret cave of Jarett they changed opinion and considered her an evil kultist working on her own. Finally, I think you do a great job making the valley come alive. This is important to inspire the players to do unslefish acts as the war progresses. The final question will be how much are they willing to sacrifice to keep the valley free? :) |
| pukunui01-07-07, 02:28 PM | Pukunui, I will give you my honest opinion as always. :)I wouldn't expect anything less from you, C-Man! First, I think it is okay when need be to bump PCs a level. That is how I handled 2 under-level PCs before the battle of Rhest. I allowed them to progress from 5th to 6th level since I knew the party would stand no chance at all otherwise.I remember that. I used meta-logics to do so, and later when these PCs were awarded enough XP to level twice I only allowed him to level once as per the PHB rule of "Excess points are lost" p.58. In a way you can say I paid them these XP upfront when levelling them to 6th before the battle. And I think this is a good and logical way to handle it. Give them enough XP to level, but make them "pay" by awarding a little less XP later, or even have them lose these excess XPs when levelling.I'm not quite following you here. Are you suggesting I level them up and then don't allow them to level up later on or something? Or only if they happen to earn enough XP to level up more than once at a time? (I generally try to avoid that situation). Regarding magic items, I would like to see it as they pay for these extra XP you give them for free by not automatically receiving the appropriate magic treasure for the level.OK, that sounds reasonable. But I need to make sure they catch up eventually. In RHoD I used the hangout "Velorian's" to have some dance-competitions, a debating club, and what not. The winner of a competition won a magic item appropriate for the evening's entertainment. The winner of the dancing-contest won Boots of Striding, the winner of the debating-club won a Periapt of Charisma, etc.Yes, that was fun to read. I might try something similar ... if you recall, we had similar activities at the Dauth Summer Festival. If you want one of your characters to have a magic bow, make him join an Arching-contest at the town market and "fight" for his bow. The competitors do not have to be expert marksmen, but there should be a chance that he doesn't win in my view. The win chance should be around 50%.I wasn't planning on just giving Tharlas the bow ... if you remember that evil elf ranger from whom Tharlas freed the dancing bear -- I'm still planning on having him attack the party, but he just wants to scare them, not kill them. If it all goes according to plan, he'll somehow drop his magic bow in his haste to flee. The name of the evil kultist is Jarett Nurth, but remember that according to the module her identity and evil worshiping is unknown. I doubt whether Lady Kaal knows of her according to the module as written, but ofcourse you can change this as you please. Jarett is considered a hard-working and appreciated member of the community. So much more exciting when the bodies of her murders start turning up in Drellin's Ferry!That's right. Jarett. I don't think Lady Kaal would know who Jarett is either. However, since the murderer has so far eluded capture, perhaps things are starting to look bad for Lady Kaal (perhaps certain people are starting to ask awkward questions of her -- perhaps even going so far as to suggest that she is losing control over her organization ...). So she "hires" Baz to find out who the murderer is and put a stop to him/her -- not out of any sense of justice but because she wants to clear her reputation or something. The final question will be how much are they willing to sacrifice to keep the valley free? :)Mmm, that's a good question. I hope they don't go the way of some of the other RHoD groups and get frustrated and give up because it's "too hard" or something. That would be sad. |
| Caligula01-07-07, 02:42 PM | The PCs that I meta-wise leveled from 4th to 5th level gained so much XP during the battle at Rhest that they could have levelled all the way to 7th level (2 levels). I didn't allow that however since the PHB clearly says that you can only progress one level at a time (p.58). The player was first disappointed, but then I reminded him that he had received a "free" level before the battle at Rhest. So, in a sense he got these XPs beforehand! :) Early on in RHoD the players will find extremley powerful magic items at Vraath Keep. Among other things the Staff of Life. I guess these items will put your players on an almost even keel.... :) Sounds like a reat idea that Lady Kaal would hire Baz. Or perhaps Eldremma Axenhaft who always is interested in hiring adventurers for "shadowy" tasks.... |
| pukunui01-07-07, 03:08 PM | The PCs that I meta-wise leveled from 4th to 5th level gained so much XP during the battle at Rhest that they could have levelled all the way to 7th level (2 levels). I didn't allow that however since the PHB clearly says that you can only progress one level at a time (p.58). The player was first disappointed, but then I reminded him that he had received a "free" level before the battle at Rhest. So, in a sense he got these XPs beforehand! :)OK right. I get it now. Thanks. Early on in RHoD the players will find extremley powerful magic items at Vraath Keep. Among other things the Staff of Life. I guess these items will put your players on an almost even keel.... :)Yes, that's certainly true. I am really looking forward to starting RHoD properly so I can stop worrying about treasure (seeing as it's all pretty much taken care of for me in the module). Sounds like a reat idea that Lady Kaal would hire Baz. Or perhaps Eldremma Axenhaft who always is interested in hiring adventurers for "shadowy" tasks....Yes. I want to work the whole "assumed name v. real name" thing that Baz's player came up with into the campaign somehow, and the only ways I can think of to do it is either through blackmail (someone knows his real name and threatens to expose him) or by having someone who actually knows his real name come up to him on the street and address him by that name. I prefer the blackmail option. |
| pukunui01-14-07, 03:00 PM | Some changes are afoot in my campaign ... here's what's going to happen: 1) I'm going to introduce the Traits system from Unearthed Arcana. I'm going to allow Baz and Tharlas to retroactively take up to two Traits if they so wish. 2) I'm going to retroactively give everyone max hp for every level. We'll continue this until they reach 10th level (assuming they ever get that far ...), which is around about where they'll be when they finish RHoD. We'll then reassess the rule and will most likely decide to go back to rolling ... assuming that my players will want to continue playing with the same characters and not start over. 3) I'm going to introduce a "Collective PC" to the party. This is an NPC that I will have drawn up but which the players will "collectively" run in-game, deciding what his/her actions will be and rolling the dice, etc etc. This is to make up for not having a 4th PC. This is also so that I don't have to run the NPC as a DMPC or whatever. I'm currently working on a couple of possibilities ... I'll run them past my players and have them vote on which NPC they want to have join their party. These are my current possibles: 1) Sonja Ravenova - lesser air genasi swashbuckler 3/fighter 2 2) Avery Freeman - half-elf ranger 5 3) Nym Stillwater - wild elf sorceror 5 4) Leilani Corynian - lesser aasimar divine bard 5 5) Tara Pendragon - lesser aasimar cleric 5 of Pelor (heading for radiant servant of pelor) 6) Wulgar Hammerfist - hill dwarf fighter 5 (heading for dwarven defender) cheers, Jonny p.s. do you guys think I should start a new thread for my actual RHoD recap or just continue on this one? |
| Caligula01-14-07, 03:06 PM | Sounds interesting! I would really route for the Aasimar Cleric. Playing this module without a Cleric is close to impossible. If they lack a Cleric you should really, really give them this advice. :) Personally I would recommend against max hitpoints - that will effectively make the PCs a lot more powerful than the module suggests, but this is your call as DM ofcourse. Looking forward to the start of your RHoD campaign! It will be one long pleasure. :) |
| pukunui01-14-07, 03:12 PM | I would really route for the Aasimar Cleric. Playing this module without a Cleric is close to impossible. If they lack a Cleric you should really, really give them this advice. :)Oh, I shall ... don't you worry about that! Although my personal favorite is Sonja Ravenova (she's a character I made for fun a while back and I've been dying to get her into a game somehow), the two aasimar, Leilani Corynian and Tara Pendragon, are a close second. To be perfectly honest, I'm really not certain I know what all a "divine" bard needs to do as opposed to an "arcane" one (other than add a few spells to the list and use Wis instead of Cha). Do they need a holy symbol? I suppose it would depend on whether any of their spells require a Divine Focus. Personally I would recommend against max hitpoints - that will effectively make the PCs a lot more powerful than the module suggests, but this is your call as DM ofcourse.Everyone keeps saying this, but, considering how high the attrition rate has been with RHoD so far, I think it will really improve the PC's survivability. Besides, my players are a lot more precious about their PCs than yours are ... I'm pretty sure they'll mutiny if they lose as many PCs as your players have. Actually, C-Man, I want your advice on something. I'll PM you. |
| Caligula01-14-07, 04:03 PM | Sonja Ravenova is certainly a beautiful name. Hints of aristocracy perhaps? I agree max hitpoints will definetly make the PCs tougher and more likely to survive. The problem is that players may skip using clever tactics and non-violent problem solving, and just rush head into every fight. I think, or I'm quite certain actually, that the authors wanted the players to be awed by the great force of the horde and try to find other means than head-on combat. Stealth, infiltration, assassinations, and guerilla-style warfare with hit-and-run tactics is what it should be about. But I agree, the module is very deadly and some players may not take the heat. We have had some heated discussion and at one time one player actually left the session. Another left the group due to IRL events, but could also be that his PC Arranos fell at Skull Gorge Bridge. We will never know the real reason probably. This far we have had 3 PC deaths of the main charcters. Also 2 cohorts have fallen. Still, I think my players have fared better than many others that I have read here at the boards. So it is indeed tough. You can't have all players appreciate your style all the time. But if you stick to your way of doing things they will at least respect you for trying and being consequent. Which ever system you chose with hitpoints I'm sure it will work fine in the end! :) |
| pukunui01-14-07, 04:19 PM | Sonja Ravenova is certainly a beautiful name. Hints of aristocracy perhaps?Yeah, I was going for an Eastern European feel ... I also stole her surname from the Ravenloft module (the name of Strahd's mother, I think). :embarrass She could have a bit of aristocrat in her. She's certainly going to be slightly on the arrogant side, but it could also just be that she comes across that way because she's exotic and showy (she is a swashbuckler, after all!) I agree max hitpoints will definetly make the PCs tougher and more likely to survive. The problem is that players may skip using clever tactics and non-violent problem solving, and just rush head into every fight. I think, or I'm quite certain actually, that the authors wanted the players to be awed by the great force of the horde and try to find other means than head-on combat.I think that's a risk I'm willing to take. From my reading of the material and of other people's recaps (esp. yours), I think that even with max hp, constant head-on tactics will still result in some serious casualties. Also, because of the make-up of the party, they're really lacking the ability to go head-on ... no fireball spells, no proper meatshield hidden beneath layers and layers of armor, no rogue with sneak attack ... Stealth, infiltration, assassinations, and guerilla-style warfare with hit-and-run tactics is what it should be about.I agree. The players are going to have to learn to think WWII tactics or even Vietnam tactics rather than WWI tactics. But I agree, the module is very deadly and some players may not take the heat. We have had some heated discussion and at one time one player actually left the session. Another left the group due to IRL events, but could also be that his PC Arranos fell at Skull Gorge Bridge. We will never know the real reason probably. This far we have had 3 PC deaths of the main charcters. Also 2 cohorts have fallen. Still, I think my players have fared better than many others that I have read here at the boards. So it is indeed tough.I don't want my players to conclude that I'm a bad DM because I threw them into a module that was too hard, but at the same time, I really don't want to "scale back" the module, because I think that would detract from the "stopping an invasion" feel. It's meant to feel hopeless at times. I'm sure the American patriots in the Revolution wished the British Redcoats would "scale back" their attacks, but that didn't happen, and we most likely would have been defeated if it hadn't been for the French ... not that I'm planning on having some huge army come and save the PCs at the last minute if they look like they're going to fail but anyway ... |
| eblis123401-15-07, 02:00 AM | Normally I would suggest running with the cleric however with Nikos & Baz they only need a Wand of Cure Mod Wounds or 2 to cover off a lot of the healing requirements. I think your major need would be a meat shield. I like the dwarf (that was my character in RHOD) and he would be v.useful to just stand and take damage BUT I don't think he would fit the rest of your party. I think the Ranger or Swahbuckler with ranks in Hide & Move Silently would better suit the type of aproach your group will need to take on RHOD. Your group is not going to have the firepower for direct attacks (definately Viet Cong style) and I can't see a heavily armoured dwarf successfully sneaking past watchful hobgoblins. Re HP we have minimum 50% on level up (reroll if less than 50%) so you average 75% of potential as an alternative option. |
| pukunui01-15-07, 02:28 AM | Hi eblis! In what part of New Zealand do you live? I'm in Auckland. I agree that the dwarf could be useful but wouldn't necessarily fit in with the party. I also agree that they're going to have to go with guerrilla tactics (which is more-or-less what the module calls for anyway). Hopefully the beguiler will be able to use his mind magic to good effect. And because a lot of the adventure is outside, the druid should really be in his element ... So I agree that the ranger, swashbuckler, perhaps a favored soul instead of a cleric, or maybe even a scout would be best for the "collective PC". Let's not forget the sorceror, either. He could provide the much-needed blasting. I was thinking of going for a "pyro" effect with him -- lots of fire spells. I think I'll forget about the bard. I was also thinking of a paladin (I'd love to do a halfling paladin of Yondalla) but I doubt they'd go for that ... They don't necessarily need a ranger because Nikos has got track. They need something relatively simple, I think ... something that doesn't require a lot of micromanagement, especially with spells. So I think favored soul and sorceror would be better caster choices since they have a limited number of spells from which to choose and don't need to select which ones to prepare each day -- thus speeding things up for the players. A fighter should be simple too -- not burdened with complicated tactical feats or situational abilities like trip and bull rush. I'd love to get a psionic character into the action, but the system is totally alien to my players and they would have to constantly stop to look things up in the XPH - so I'd be better off running that sort of NPC myself. I think I should also narrow down the choices for "collective PC" to two or three rather than six. |
| Caligula01-15-07, 11:15 AM | Normally I would suggest running with the cleric however with Nikos & Baz they only need a Wand of Cure Mod Wounds or 2 to cover off a lot of the healing requirements. I think your major need would be a meat shield. I like the dwarf (that was my character in RHOD) and he would be v.useful to just stand and take damage BUT I don't think he would fit the rest of your party. I think the Ranger or Swahbuckler with ranks in Hide & Move Silently would better suit the type of aproach your group will need to take on RHOD. Your group is not going to have the firepower for direct attacks (definately Viet Cong style) and I can't see a heavily armoured dwarf successfully sneaking past watchful hobgoblins. Re HP we have minimum 50% on level up (reroll if less than 50%) so you average 75% of potential as an alternative option. I think your hitpoints rule is good for groups who want to gurantee high levels. Full hitpoints is a little bit too much in my opinion. We re-roll "1's" after 2nd level. At 1st level we use full hitpoints as PHB says, and on 2nd level we reroll about the third lowest results. |
| Caligula01-15-07, 11:21 AM | Hi eblis! In what part of New Zealand do you live? I'm in Auckland. I agree that the dwarf could be useful but wouldn't necessarily fit in with the party. I also agree that they're going to have to go with guerrilla tactics (which is more-or-less what the module calls for anyway). Hopefully the beguiler will be able to use his mind magic to good effect. And because a lot of the adventure is outside, the druid should really be in his element ... So I agree that the ranger, swashbuckler, perhaps a favored soul instead of a cleric, or maybe even a scout would be best for the "collective PC". Let's not forget the sorceror, either. He could provide the much-needed blasting. I was thinking of going for a "pyro" effect with him -- lots of fire spells. I think I'll forget about the bard. I was also thinking of a paladin (I'd love to do a halfling paladin of Yondalla) but I doubt they'd go for that ... They don't necessarily need a ranger because Nikos has got track. They need something relatively simple, I think ... something that doesn't require a lot of micromanagement, especially with spells. So I think favored soul and sorceror would be better caster choices since they have a limited number of spells from which to choose and don't need to select which ones to prepare each day -- thus speeding things up for the players. A fighter should be simple too -- not burdened with complicated tactical feats or situational abilities like trip and bull rush. I'd love to get a psionic character into the action, but the system is totally alien to my players and they would have to constantly stop to look things up in the XPH - so I'd be better off running that sort of NPC myself. I think I should also narrow down the choices for "collective PC" to two or three rather than six. I agree with everything said here about using stealth and being out in the wild. Druid, Ranger, Scout - they are all ideal for this adventure. But I must stress the importance of a Cleric in the group! :teach: Out in the wild, stressed by the onmarching horde, there is just too little time to rest and heal. Also, the PCs won't have much access to healing and magic while running around in the valley. Without Eluard in the group, my players would have had extreme problems. That's one of the main lessons we have learnt. Also, you need an expert marksman/sniper. It is just completely essential. And, the other 3 should be able to fight a ranged combat effectively also! The terrain and circumstances at Skull Gorge Bridge and Rhest for exampel, are almost impossible to handle without a Cleric and a group who knows how to fight a ranged combat and sneak upp unnoticed. :) |
| pukunui01-15-07, 02:38 PM | Yes, I've fiddled around a bit with my possible NPCs. I'm down to 4 possibles, some of them different: Sonja Ravenova - lsr air genasi swashbuckler 3/fighter 2 Khalil bin Said - lsr fire genasi warmage 5 Leilani Corynian - lsr aasimar cleric 5 of Pelor Tara Pendragon - strongheart halfling rogue 4/paladin 1 Gee - I must have a thing for planetouched ... :rolleyes: I was also thinking that rather than making them choose just one and then having them be stuck with that one -- I could make it so that at various intervals in the campaign, they can "trade" one NPC for another. The idea is similar to how henchmen work in a number of CRPGs ... for instance, in NWN2, after you have collected more than 3 henchmen, they all hang around in a certain inn, and whenever you leave the inn to go on missions, it asks you which henchmen you want to take along. So in this sense, if they took someone other than the cleric but later realized that they might need her, they could "swap" her in for whoever they'd chosen before. Or if they wanted to have the paladin along at first, but didn't want her along when they went to talk to the ghostlord, they could swap her out for someone else. |
| itwasntme01-15-07, 03:02 PM | The Question is : Would this RHoD Even be worth while for me to go into? I never got a good look at it and i just dount know how things go/Act in the game hell im talking about Players who where able to Go though half the Worlds Largest dungion (Following all the rules legitly) In a week tho i must say for a good amount of time we where just chatting away and kinda figured that the Dungion wasnt that great of a challenge for us "Powergamers" Note : that was back before we found ways how to stop "Power gameing/Medi gameing" now where doing it again restricting ourselfs to many choice and its now porvideing a challenge ... But still one problem is We seem to be heading back into that path of Powergameing we take a 10 ft pole and win the war with it ... Lame True but im woundering if it be at all worthwhile on how the RHoD would go Allso if not my normol group then perhaps a differnt group? We ran across a normol group of players some time and there not powergamers at all and has invited me to join there games sense my group is starting Jobs/Work more offtin then normol that mixed with school work gets them tied up the only thing is i would have to play a RHoD Game with them so should i or shouldnt i? I have more free time then my fellow players so time isnt a problem its the fact that i dunno if myself would pick up the "Powergameing" of the group and ruin it for the rest of the players or not Thats possibly my main concern |
| pukunui01-15-07, 03:09 PM | Hi, itwasntme. I hope you don't mind if I begin by saying that your post was incredibly painful to read. Please learn to write spell and write in full, grammatically-correct sentences. Not only will it make you easier to understand but it will also vastly improve the mental picture of you that others form in their minds when they read your posts. That said, I think you would enjoy RHoD. Not having actually played it yet myself, I'm just speculating. I can't wait to get into it myself, though. Do you DM? If so, then I'd suggest going down to your FLGS and having a flip through the module. If you're a player, then give it a wide berth! No spoiling the fun! But definitely get your DM to look at it. Cheers, Jonny |
| eblis123401-15-07, 03:54 PM | Auckland as well (Mt Eden) |
| pukunui01-15-07, 04:10 PM | Auckland as well (Mt Eden) Sweet as, mate. New Windsor for me. To be honest, at first I thought you were one of my players pretending to be someone else ... lol. I'm a bit paranoid that they'll read this thread and learn stuff they shouldn't learn about their upcoming adventure. |
| eblis123401-15-07, 04:25 PM | Ha!Ha! Definately not- I posted my character in Heroes of the Valley. We started RHOD about March last year and finished in in Nov. playing 1x week. Once we finished I jumped on the boards to see how others faired in the adventure. We play not that far from you in Blockhouse Bay. Enjoy the rich valley you are creating.... We are based in the Dalelands and went South hunting an artifact of Lathander and came across the RHOD. |
| pukunui01-15-07, 04:31 PM | What made me suspicious was that you'd said your character was a dwarf fighter, which was what Berandd was. But yeah ... that's cool. I had originally planned on running RHoD in the Realms (in Channath Vale) but I decided against it because I don't really like the 3.x Realms (I was a big fan in 2e but not so much anymore). Anyway, if you ever are looking for a new group to play with or conversely, a new player ... gimme a yell! |
| Caligula01-15-07, 05:20 PM | Yes, I've fiddled around a bit with my possible NPCs. I'm down to 4 possibles, some of them different: Sonja Ravenova - lsr air genasi swashbuckler 3/fighter 2 Khalil bin Said - lsr fire genasi warmage 5 Leilani Corynian - lsr aasimar cleric 5 of Pelor Tara Pendragon - strongheart halfling rogue 4/paladin 1 Gee - I must have a thing for planetouched ... :rolleyes: I was also thinking that rather than making them choose just one and then having them be stuck with that one -- I could make it so that at various intervals in the campaign, they can "trade" one NPC for another. The idea is similar to how henchmen work in a number of CRPGs ... for instance, in NWN2, after you have collected more than 3 henchmen, they all hang around in a certain inn, and whenever you leave the inn to go on missions, it asks you which henchmen you want to take along. So in this sense, if they took someone other than the cleric but later realized that they might need her, they could "swap" her in for whoever they'd chosen before. Or if they wanted to have the paladin along at first, but didn't want her along when they went to talk to the ghostlord, they could swap her out for someone else. I think your idea to swap NPCs is great! That way they can chose the NPC that best suit each chapter and mission. Stealth in Rhest, ranged attacks at Skull Gorge Bridge, and Heavy armor in Battle for Brindol. Of your suggested NPCs I would say that the Aasimar Cleric is the best one by far for RHoD, followed by the Warmage who should specialize in ranged damage spells. |
| pukunui01-15-07, 05:48 PM | I think your idea to swap NPCs is great! That way they can chose the NPC that best suit each chapter and mission. Stealth in Rhest, ranged attacks at Skull Gorge Bridge, and Heavy armor in Battle for Brindol.Thanks! Of course, I can't really take the credit for the idea since I'm basically just borrowing it from computer RPGs but anyway ... I think my players will like it too. Being able to customize their NPCs should work to their advantage. I might add more as we go along, but I'm finding I'm spending a bit too much time on this already, so I'll just stick with the last four I mentioned. Of your suggested NPCs I would say that the Aasimar Cleric is the best one by far for RHoD, followed by the Warmage who should specialize in ranged damage spells.I agree, although I'd love to see my sneaky paladin in action (if they do end up choosing her, they'll probably want to leave her behind if/when they pay the Ghostlord a visit ... ;)). Leilani will focus on healing. I'm giving her Augment Healing and possibly the Healing Domain and probably Sacred Healing from the PHB2. My plan with her is to go into Radiant Servant of Pelor. She's going to be a healing machine! With the warmage, when you say "specialize in ranged damage spells", do you mean that he should favor his ranged spells over his other ones? My understanding is that the warmage knows all the spells on his spell list, much like the beguiler. Or do you mean that he should take something like Weapon Focus (ranged spells)? Can you do that? I think I saw it somewhere ... Cheers, Jonny |
| pukunui01-16-07, 03:44 AM | OK well ... I had the gang over tonight to go over some things, and while they were here, I showed them my four possible "collective PCs" (or CPC - have we coined a new term?). It was a close toss-up between the warmage and the healing machine ... er, I mean, cleric. In the end they chose the latter, although they may find that they need the warmage for some things. Who knows. The cleric, Leilani (Hawaiian for "heavenly", btw), will specialize in healing. As you are no doubt aware, there are hardly any undead in RHoD (and if the players never go to the Ghostlord's lair, there will be none at all), so she doesn't need to really bother with turning undead. However, I'm going to give her the Sacred Healing feat from the PHB2, which uses turn undead attempts to boost healing spells. I'm also going to give her Augment Healing. And she'll go into the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC at the earliest opportunity. Any other good feats I should look at? I'll also give her Brew Potion, but I don't know that she'll get many opportunities to make any ... what else? I suppose I could have her take Extra Turning in order to be able to use Sacred Healing more often. EDIT: There are actually two Sacred Healing feats, one in the PHB2 and one in Complete Divine. I think I like the latter better. The former gives +5 to Heal checks and +2 damage healed/caster level or something, while the latter gives Fast Healing 3 for 1 + Cha mod rounds to everyone in a 60ft radius. (Hmm - sounds like it would give your enemies Fast Healing 3 as well, so long as they were within the radius ... it specifically says "all living creatures") Also, I think I will start a new thread. A fresh start in the game -- why not a fresh, clutter-free thread for the recap as well? Does anyone think that I shouldn't start a new thread? |
| snakeheadfish3301-16-07, 11:27 AM | There's no reason why you shouldn't start another thread. This one was started for your groups adventures leading up to RHoD. So a new thread that deals with RHoD specifically is sensible. Also I really like your pool of CPCs and the idea to let them get swapped in and out as the game progresses. Will they advance alongside the characters? EXAMPLE: They use one of the CPCs in chapter 1, then not use that same CPC again until chapter 4, will you advance the CPC to match? |
| Caligula01-16-07, 11:55 AM | With the warmage, when you say "specialize in ranged damage spells", do you mean that he should favor his ranged spells over his other ones? My understanding is that the warmage knows all the spells on his spell list, much like the beguiler. Or do you mean that he should take something like Weapon Focus (ranged spells)? Can you do that? I think I saw it somewhere ... Cheers, Jonny Yes, my point was to try and make the Warmage as powerful, penetrating, and capable as possible with ranged damage attacks. That will be essential for your group's survival at Skull Gorge Bridge and Rhest. Both those 2 encounters are very much possible TPKs otherwise. I'm not sure whether you can chose Weapon Focus for ranged spells, but if you can - Go for it! Also, spell penetration might be a good idea to penetrate powerful foes like the Dragons for example! Make sure that all 4 have reasonable capacity to fight a ranged combat. Difficult terrain and circumstances will depend on it. Your players will find out eventually how demanding this module is, but as a DM you might want to have a word with your players before you set out. As we enter a new module in my campaign I always sit down with my players and discuss a bit about the module. I know this is meta-influential, but I think it is a necessary evil to make all enjoy the game fully. After you have informed them, not about all aspects, but a little bit about what is expected of them, they will have to make their own decisions and stand or fall with them. :) |
| Caligula01-16-07, 11:58 AM | OK well ... I had the gang over tonight to go over some things, and while they were here, I showed them my four possible "collective PCs" (or CPC - have we coined a new term?). It was a close toss-up between the warmage and the healing machine ... er, I mean, cleric. In the end they chose the latter, although they may find that they need the warmage for some things. Who knows. The cleric, Leilani (Hawaiian for "heavenly", btw), will specialize in healing. As you are no doubt aware, there are hardly any undead in RHoD (and if the players never go to the Ghostlord's lair, there will be none at all), so she doesn't need to really bother with turning undead. However, I'm going to give her the Sacred Healing feat from the PHB2, which uses turn undead attempts to boost healing spells. I'm also going to give her Augment Healing. And she'll go into the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC at the earliest opportunity. Any other good feats I should look at? I'll also give her Brew Potion, but I don't know that she'll get many opportunities to make any ... what else? I suppose I could have her take Extra Turning in order to be able to use Sacred Healing more often. EDIT: There are actually two Sacred Healing feats, one in the PHB2 and one in Complete Divine. I think I like the latter better. The former gives +5 to Heal checks and +2 damage healed/caster level or something, while the latter gives Fast Healing 3 for 1 + Cha mod rounds to everyone in a 60ft radius. (Hmm - sounds like it would give your enemies Fast Healing 3 as well, so long as they were within the radius ... it specifically says "all living creatures") Also, I think I will start a new thread. A fresh start in the game -- why not a fresh, clutter-free thread for the recap as well? Does anyone think that I shouldn't start a new thread? Congrats on chosing the Aasimar Cleric as "CPC" for your group. Or rather, that they chose him. It will mean a lot for their cause to defeat the horde! I think using the Cleric as standard mode, and changing for the Warmage just before tough battles will be a good combo. If you need good advice on selecting feats and abilities for Cleric's, I suggest you send a PM to my cousin who plays Eluard - the Aasimar Cleric in our campaign. My cousin's nick here is "Anor". :) |
| Caligula01-16-07, 12:01 PM | There's no reason why you shouldn't start another thread. This one was started for your groups adventures leading up to RHoD. So a new thread that deals with RHoD specifically is sensible. Also I really like your pool of CPCs and the idea to let them get swapped in and out as the game progresses. Will they advance alongside the characters? EXAMPLE: They use one of the CPCs in chapter 1, then not use that same CPC again until chapter 4, will you advance the CPC to match? Yeah, I second the notion to start up fresh. Your recap should start with Day 1 from RHoD. Use this thread to discuss events leading up to it, and decisions you are contemplating as a DM. I guess we are there already anyway... ;) Also, the question that Snakeheadfish33 raised is interesting. I eagerly await your answer to that one! :cool: |
| pukunui01-16-07, 02:42 PM | There's no reason why you shouldn't start another thread. This one was started for your groups adventures leading up to RHoD. So a new thread that deals with RHoD specifically is sensible. Yeah, I second the notion to start up fresh. Your recap should start with Day 1 from RHoD. Use this thread to discuss events leading up to it, and decisions you are contemplating as a DM. I guess we are there already anyway... ;) Thanks for the feedback on that guys. I will definitely start up a new thread following tomorrow night's session! Also, just as a head's up -- my sister-in-law starts her classes before I do next month. She's only taking one class in the evenings at the moment, though, while I will be doing it full-time ... we're having a little trouble finding a new time because Thursday nights won't work for me anymore (class doesn't finish till 6:30pm :yuck:) but she doesn't want to do Fridays because she likes to have a social life outside d&d (how dare she! ;)). Also, she's going to stop DMing for a while to see whether she has the time to do any prep for her campaign, so we'll just be playing my campaign for a few weeks, and then if she decides she can't continue DMing, it'll just be me for the rest of the school year! :evillaugh Also I really like your pool of CPCs and the idea to let them get swapped in and out as the game progresses. Will they advance alongside the characters? EXAMPLE: They use one of the CPCs in chapter 1, then not use that same CPC again until chapter 4, will you advance the CPC to match?Yes, I am planning on having them level up "off-scene". Once it becomes clear what's about to happen to the Vale, I'm sure I can just explain away their XP gains by saying they were on other missions of vital importance ... Yes, my point was to try and make the Warmage as powerful, penetrating, and capable as possible with ranged damage attacks. That will be essential for your group's survival at Skull Gorge Bridge and Rhest. Both those 2 encounters are very much possible TPKs otherwise.Right. Yes, I have pointed out to them that they will probably want the warmage at certain points, and I will remind them of that as we get closer to those times. I also offered to let them have both CPCs around, but they didn't particularly like that idea ... too many "bodies" on the battlefield or something. I'm not sure whether you can chose Weapon Focus for ranged spells, but if you can - Go for it! Also, spell penetration might be a good idea to penetrate powerful foes like the Dragons for example!OK. I'm also giving him the FR Bloodline of Fire feat and the Extra Edge feat. Good thing there aren't too many fire-resistant creatures in RHoD! Make sure that all 4 have reasonable capacity to fight a ranged combat. Difficult terrain and circumstances will depend on it. Your players will find out eventually how demanding this module is, but as a DM you might want to have a word with your players before you set out. As we enter a new module in my campaign I always sit down with my players and discuss a bit about the module. I know this is meta-influential, but I think it is a necessary evil to make all enjoy the game fully. After you have informed them, not about all aspects, but a little bit about what is expected of them, they will have to make their own decisions and stand or fall with them. :)Yes, I don't want to give too much away, but I think I will sit down with them and explain that what's coming up will require a shift in their normal tactics and that they should prepare themselves to be more mobile and think "hit-and-run" guerrilla warfare. Congrats on chosing the Aasimar Cleric as "CPC" for your group. Or rather, that they chose him. It will mean a lot for their cause to defeat the horde!They chose her actually. I decided that Leilani was the priest who conducted Berandd's funeral and perhaps she became acquainted with Nikos who wants to go on a journey in memory of the dead dwarf (it's a Fharlanghn thing ... ;)). Perhaps Leilani will ask to accompany him. I think using the Cleric as standard mode, and changing for the Warmage just before tough battles will be a good combo.Agreed. If you need good advice on selecting feats and abilities for Cleric's, I suggest you send a PM to my cousin who plays Eluard - the Aasimar Cleric in our campaign. My cousin's nick here is "Anor". :)I just might do that. Thanks C-Man. I'll also have a look at his character in your Heroes of the Valley thread. p.s. I'll rename this thread "RHoD Recap Discussion Thread" or something. EDIT: Anyone know how to change the thread's title? I can't figure it out, but I'm sure you used to be able to do that ... |
| pukunui01-16-07, 04:00 PM | As disappointed as I was the Neverwinter Nights 2, I'm finding that I've borrowed a few features from it for my own campaign: 1) Max hp/lvl 2) Character Traits 3) Swappable henchmen who level up as you do even if they're off-scene There are probably some other things, but I can't think of them right now. |
| Caligula01-17-07, 03:58 AM | BTW, my girlfriend has been looking over my shoulder recently and wondered "who that girl is" that I'm writing to at the boards all the time. Pointing at the beautiful avatar that you use, Pukunui..... :D |
| pukunui01-17-07, 04:10 AM | You can tell her that I like to get in touch with my feminine side when I roleplay ... ;) I don't really know why, but I always prefer to play women in any sort of game where you can choose your gender. I think it's because I'm not a woman, and I like to play things that I'm not (which is why I also prefer not to play a human), and there's only one other gender from which to choose, so ... Anyway, yeah. I suppose I should be flattered. :D |
| snakeheadfish3301-17-07, 10:57 AM | You can tell her that I like to get in touch with my feminine side when I roleplay ... ;) I don't really know why, but I always prefer to play women in any sort of game where you can choose your gender. I think it's because I'm not a woman, and I like to play things that I'm not (which is why I also prefer not to play a human), and there's only one other gender from which to choose, so ... Pukunui, it's good to know I'm not alone in this. I too tend to choose a female character in most games I play. Even moreso in video games. When someone asked me why that is. I replied that I like chicks who are bad-*** and can kick a lot of ***. There's something hot about that; to me anyways. Stands to reason why Wonder Woman is my fave out of the JLA and I've got a soft spot for Red Sonja (she has Conan to thank for that). It goes into music as well, I prefer women singers over men. PJ Harvey is my favorite musical artist of all time. Chicks are just hotter all around. At least my wife is understanding of it all ... and that's what matters most. |
| pukunui01-17-07, 01:47 PM | LOL - I hear you, snakehead. I have more female friends than male ones. I find I can relate to them better. I'm not a typical male "bloke", as they would say around here. I don't really like sports or fast cars or getting drunk or doing heavy manual labor, etc etc. I think the fact that I group up with two fairly liberal (liberated?) sisters is a major contributing factor, as well. |
| snakeheadfish3301-17-07, 03:29 PM | LOL - I hear you, snakehead. I have more female friends than male ones. I find I can relate to them better. I'm not a typical male "bloke", as they would say around here. I don't really like sports or fast cars or getting drunk or doing heavy manual labor, etc etc. I think the fact that I group up with two fairly liberal (liberated?) sisters is a major contributing factor, as well. Again we see eye to eye here. I could care less about sports (to the surprise of many a male), playing poker or cars. I do enjoy a bit of micro-brew and ale but don't overdo it like a typical guy would. Nor am I very handy with tools. But heck, I can rock a game controller, am filled with "geeky" facts and paint a decent miniature, no sweat. It's funny when I get invited to a football game get together, I end up in the kitchen chatting with all the ladies. They are finer company than most fellahs anyways. But I'm a bit jealous that you get to game with a couple femmes. I've attempted on many an occassion to bring a lady into the fold. Though they are receptive to the idea I find them to be a bit too chatty and easily loose focus. They also seem to grow bored with the actual role-play parts of the game. But you gotta give it up to them for trying. One of my old game compatriots now rolls with his wife which I think is brilliant. Alas, my wife falls into the easily bored catergory. But she would never stimey my game and supports my "odd" habits and interests. |
| pukunui01-17-07, 03:45 PM | But I'm a bit jealous that you get to game with a couple femmes.Just one - my sister-in-law. And she's more into the roleplaying than the rules crunching. Half the time, she never knows what her character is capable of doing or what half of her spells do - but she gets into the story and comes up with some quirky ideas for her character (like looking for dew on bushes so he can fill a bowl with water). She's attempting to DM her own game, too, so we take turns, although like I said, she'll probably stop once we both start school. It's funny though - in her game, my character is a female. In my game, her character is a male. |
| snakeheadfish3301-17-07, 03:53 PM | in her game, my character is a female. In my game, her character is a male. HAHA! That's great. |
| pukunui01-17-07, 04:22 PM | HAHA! That's great. Yeah. Man, I keep thinking, "****, they're going to get slaughtered in the very first encounter because they don't have any area of effect spells ..." but then I just remembered that Tharlas has a necklace of fireballs type I. I just hope my sister-in-law thinks to use it ... I'm going to play the Marauder Attack by ear. If the initial encounter is going badly for the PCs, I won't have the second wave of marauders come in. If I end up doing that, how should I scale back the EL? It's already "artificially high" at EL8, apparently ... if I don't send in the second wave should I just make it EL6 or something? Any thoughts? I guess it doesn't really matter as much as the CR for each individual creature ... seeing as you use that to determine XP. When I first got back in to d&d, I wasn't used to the 3.x rules and I thought you used the EL to determine XP ... :blush: |
| snakeheadfish3301-17-07, 05:21 PM | I guess it doesn't really matter as much as the CR for each individual creature ... seeing as you use that to determine XP. When I first got back in to d&d, I wasn't used to the 3.x rules and I thought you used the EL to determine XP ... :blush: I found, actually STILL find, this to be confusing as well. It almost seems left open to interpretation. I give out XPs both ways. In RHoD I have been handing out XP based on EL, not the CR of each individual combatant. It still was plenty of XP to get the PCs from 5th to 11th by Chapter 5. I did not hand out any extra XP for any reason whatsoever. Although I should have rewarded some of the PCs for acts of courage or for intutative ideas I chose not to. I've only recently begun to use the encounter calculator on the d20SRD website to figure out exact XP amounts. It's brilliant for parties with PCs of different character levels and awards accordingly. |
| pukunui01-17-07, 05:39 PM | I found, actually STILL find, this to be confusing as well. It almost seems left open to interpretation. I give out XPs both ways. In RHoD I have been handing out XP based on EL, not the CR of each individual combatant. It still was plenty of XP to get the PCs from 5th to 11th by Chapter 5. I did not hand out any extra XP for any reason whatsoever. Although I should have rewarded some of the PCs for acts of courage or for intutative ideas I chose not to. I've only recently begun to use the encounter calculator on the d20SRD website to figure out exact XP amounts. It's brilliant for parties with PCs of different character levels and awards accordingly. Mmm, yes, I've bookmarked that calculator but I keep forgetting to use it. LOL. I've just done up a monster-less encounter for them that should net them almost enough XP to level up to 6th lvl. I'm using the "Curse of Iron" and the "All of the Treasure, None of the Traps" encounters from the Book of Challenges. Lots of traps. Heh heh heh. :plotting: EDIT: The treasure they get includes 300gp, a silk tapestry worth 400gp, a platinum statue worth 500gp, a wand of silence (11 charges), 5000sp, 500pp, a diamond worth 3,500gp, a +1 composite shortbow (+1 str), a cloak of resistance +1, mwk studded leather, mwk buckler, mwk thieves' tools, 12 mwk arrows, and a mwk rapier. Does that seem like enough treasure? At first, I didn't think so, but now that I think about it more (500pp = 5000gp, right?), it could well be enough to get them up to where they should be at 6th level. |
| Caligula01-18-07, 04:54 AM | Yeah. Man, I keep thinking, "****, they're going to get slaughtered in the very first encounter because they don't have any area of effect spells ..." but then I just remembered that Tharlas has a necklace of fireballs type I. I just hope my sister-in-law thinks to use it ... I'm going to play the Marauder Attack by ear. If the initial encounter is going badly for the PCs, I won't have the second wave of marauders come in. If I end up doing that, how should I scale back the EL? It's already "artificially high" at EL8, apparently ... if I don't send in the second wave should I just make it EL6 or something? Any thoughts? I guess it doesn't really matter as much as the CR for each individual creature ... seeing as you use that to determine XP. When I first got back in to d&d, I wasn't used to the 3.x rules and I thought you used the EL to determine XP ... :blush: Actually, the EL is used to measure the difficulty of an encounter. EL can be several units combined with different CRs. You should always calculate XPs from the individual CRs of the enemies defeated. :) |
| Sunai_Retsinis01-18-07, 05:56 PM | I often use the same calculator as Snakeheadfish33. It is very usefull, especially if I add some help on the PC side. The last encounter I ran (not RHoD, but the creatures I use are from it) was the 5 lvl 3 PCs, 2 lvl 2 rangers and Jorr (rgr3/rog2) versus 6 Hobgob regulars, 1 sergeant, 1 bladebearer 2 worg+rider and 2 lvl1 goblin barbarians. I had to use the calculator. By the way, the bladebearer got no further than throwing some curses at the PCs. The sorcerer casted grease, and after three round of trying to get up again he was dead. No kills or hits for him. Very sad, but hilarious for my players. The d20 calculator also gives a total EL. I used that for treasure. The encounter above was EL9, but my players handled it well. They rolled for treasure and found a nearly full (49 charges) wand of cure moderate. They needed that, with only a druid which doesn't have a lot of spells. Greetings Sunai |
| pukunui01-18-07, 11:22 PM | Ugh ... OK, so my internet's been down for almost 24 hours. I finally got it running again. I think I could have had it up and running sooner than this though. Apparently there was an outage last night but it was meant to have been fixed this morning. I tried resetting my router to the factory settings and it wasn't until just a little while ago that I realized I'd put the wrong password in to connect to the ISP ... :doh: Anyway, now that I'm back in business, I'll get my first recap up soon! I have one question though: How did James and Rich arrive at EL 8 for the Marauder Attack encounter? And why the hell do they think that's "artificially high"?! If anything, it's too low! My PCs didn't get slaughtered, so that's not the problem. I just can't figure it out. The encounter has twelve CR 1 creatures (the hob regulars), and according to the rules, they should be an EL 8 encounter all by themselves!!! So add on two CR 3 hell hounds, a CR 3 hob cleric, and a CR 4 hob fighter, and the EL should be waaay higher. The WotC EL calculator can't even figure out what an encounter with creatures with that many different CRs is. The thing is, they're sitting at 12,500XP right now. I realize now that I should not have run those challenges from the Book of Challenges. They didn't even defeat all the traps, and they still got 2,500XP from that little blunder -- although they got some nice loot that has bumped their total wealth back up to where it should be. If I just give them XP as though the encounter was one CR 8 monster, they'll get 1125XP each, and they won't level. If I give them XP for twelve CR 1s, three CR 3s, and one CR 4, they'll get something like 3324XP each and they'll be at level 6 already. :help: please ... |
| Caligula01-19-07, 08:17 AM | Ugh ... OK, so my internet's been down for almost 24 hours. I finally got it running again. I think I could have had it up and running sooner than this though. Apparently there was an outage last night but it was meant to have been fixed this morning. I tried resetting my router to the factory settings and it wasn't until just a little while ago that I realized I'd put the wrong password in to connect to the ISP ... :doh: Anyway, now that I'm back in business, I'll get my first recap up soon! I have one question though: How did James and Rich arrive at EL 8 for the Marauder Attack encounter? And why the hell do they think that's "artificially high"?! If anything, it's too low! My PCs didn't get slaughtered, so that's not the problem. I just can't figure it out. The encounter has twelve CR 1 creatures (the hob regulars), and according to the rules, they should be an EL 8 encounter all by themselves!!! So add on two CR 3 hell hounds, a CR 3 hob cleric, and a CR 4 hob fighter, and the EL should be waaay higher. The WotC EL calculator can't even figure out what an encounter with creatures with that many different CRs is. The thing is, they're sitting at 12,500XP right now. I realize now that I should not have run those challenges from the Book of Challenges. They didn't even defeat all the traps, and they still got 2,500XP from that little blunder -- although they got some nice loot that has bumped their total wealth back up to where it should be. If I just give them XP as though the encounter was one CR 8 monster, they'll get 1125XP each, and they won't level. If I give them XP for twelve CR 1s, three CR 3s, and one CR 4, they'll get something like 3324XP each and they'll be at level 6 already. :help: please ... I think it is important to differ here between "EL" which measures about the encounters difficulty, and then "CR" which determines the XP awarded to the players. Your players should get XP for all the enemies they defeated in my opinion, including 12 CR 1s, 3 CR 3s, etc. Not only because the rules stipulate it, but because they utterly deserve it! Remember also that NPC allies get a full share of treasures and XPs, so don't forget to divide it with her included! :) |
| Sunai_Retsinis01-19-07, 10:10 AM | Hi Pukunui, I used the encounter XP calculater I posted above to do some calculations If your 4 players are level 5, it is an overpowering encounter EL9, and they should get 1713 XP each If your 4 players are level 6, it is a very difficult encounter EL9, and they should get 1575 XP each So indeed, EL8 is too low. EL9 fits better, and it is even a high EL9 Sunai |
| pukunui01-19-07, 02:42 PM | I think it is important to differ here between "EL" which measures about the encounters difficulty, and then "CR" which determines the XP awarded to the players. Your players should get XP for all the enemies they defeated in my opinion, including 12 CR 1s, 3 CR 3s, etc. Not only because the rules stipulate it, but because they utterly deserve it!Yes, I am aware of the difference now (although I wasn't too clear on which I was supposed to use to calculate XP when I first started DMing 3rd edition). But my main concern is how on earth did James and Rich decide that the Marauder Attack is not only just EL 8 but also that they think that number is "artificially high"? If anything, it's way too low!! I've just tried the d20srd.org calculator (which allows you to calculate an encounter with up to 8 different groups of monsters, unlike WotC's calculator, which only lets you do up to 2 different groups). I came to the same conclusion that Sunai did -- this should actually be an "overpowering" EL 9 encounter. However, I don't really want to give them full XP for each monster because then they'll be leveling up to 6th level and I'm not sure I want them to do that just yet. Isn't it too soon for that? Remember also that NPC allies get a full share of treasures and XPs, so don't forget to divide it with her included! :)Right ... but Tara is only marginally an NPC (she's a CPC!), so she's definitely getting a full share of the XP. As for the treasure, well, her attitude mirrors my own developing sense of discomfort with the whole "looting" thing. I'm not comfortable with the idea that basically good people would strip down their enemies, break into seemingly abandoned areas, and just take stuff that isn't theirs ... but perhaps they have a more medieval "finders keepers" mentality that just doesn't jive with my own sensibilities. |
| Caligula01-19-07, 02:51 PM | Yes, it is way too soon to level to 6th after the first encounter in my opinion, but each DM must decide what's just for his campaign. I think the EL set at 8 is because the authors really didn't count the 1st level NPCs fully. Remember that the DMG actually states that enemies that are considered a bit "light weight" in face of the PCs could have their CRs (and thereby also the EL) reduced if deemed appropriate by the DM. I let my players level once per chapter, after the conclusion of each chapter. That way they follow the suggested level progression by the module - 5th through 10th level in 5 chapters. :) For instance, they should be level 8th-9th at the Battle of Brindol, and no higher than 10th at the final battle at the Fane. You are right, it should be CPC, sorry! :) Regarding good and not good...If a bunch of monsters stormed out of the woods and tried to kill me and left some shining coins behind as I knocked them down....Finders keepers! ;) |
| pukunui01-19-07, 02:57 PM | Yes, it is way too soon to level to 6th after the first encounter in my opinion, but each DM must decide what's just for his campaign. I let my players level once per chapter, after the conclusion of each chapter. That way they follow the suggested level progression by the module - 5th through 10th level in 5 chapters. :) For instance, they should be level 8th-9th at the Battle of Brindol, and no higher than 10th at the final battle at the Fane.Ugh, I'd really like to do that, but that's not how I've been handing out XP so far, so if I change it, my players will be a bit miffed, I think ... I may just have to give them XP based on the EL rather than each individual CR so that they don't level up too quickly. It was my own fault for putting in that sidequest full of traps that gave them way too much XP ... I think the EL set at 8 is because the authors really didn't count the 1st level NPCs fully. Remember that the DMG actually states that enemies that are considered a bit "light weight" in face of the PCs could have their CRs (and thereby also the EL) reduced if deemed appropriate by the DM.Mmm, that's true ... I was just going by the standard EL/CR table in the DMG, which indicates that twelve CR 1 creatures = EL 8 all by themselves. Regarding good and not good...If a bunch of monsters stormed out of the woods and tried to kill me and left some shining coins behind as I knocked them down....Finders keepers! ;)I suppose ... I was more thinking of the dead body they found in the spiral trap-filled corridor. They basically just stripped the body of anything worth taking. I suppose you could argue that d&d characters grow up in a world where the mentality is "if someone's dead, then they don't need any of their stuff anymore, so we might as well take it and make further use of it ..." |
| Caligula01-19-07, 03:22 PM | I suppose ... I was more thinking of the dead body they found in the spiral trap-filled corridor. They basically just stripped the body of anything worth taking. I suppose you could argue that d&d characters grow up in a world where the mentality is "if someone's dead, then they don't need any of their stuff anymore, so we might as well take it and make further use of it ..." I think it is a good idea to judge each situation by its own. A dead adventurer from long ago and his coins would probably not be a moral problem even for a good adventurer. They are after all adventurers. But my players found an extremely valuable Ring of Wizardry in a razed church once (Destiny of Kings). I was shocked to learn that they wanted to use a dealer to sell it in Waterdeep....The ring belonged to a fallen friend of Paladinson, the ruler of Waterdeep. My players' dealer, a Halfling by the name Eggbert Humperdinck, was sentenced to 20 years of hard labour.....:D Word is that the thieves guilds in Waterdeep have a high price on the heads of that group of adventurers....:cool: |
| pukunui01-19-07, 03:46 PM | I let my players level once per chapter, after the conclusion of each chapter. That way they follow the suggested level progression by the module - 5th through 10th level in 5 chapters. :) For instance, they should be level 8th-9th at the Battle of Brindol, and no higher than 10th at the final battle at the Fane.I was just thinking about what you said here, C-Man ... and on p. 75 it says in the "designers' notes" sidebar: "the PCs ... should be 8th level by the time they reach this encounter". "This encounter" referring to the one with Ulwai in the Ghostlord's lair. That suggests that they should have be leveling up 1.5 times per chapter. I think it is a good idea to judge each situation by its own. A dead adventurer from long ago and his coins would probably not be a moral problem even for a good adventurer. They are after all adventurers.Except I think the dead body was meant to be fairly fresh ... but I get your point. I still wouldn't be comfortable with it ... but if I had been raised as an adventurer, I'd probably feel differently about it. |
| Caligula01-19-07, 04:09 PM | I don't have the module here in front of me, but I think they also said that at the battle of Brindol they should be 8th-9th level. They should be no more than 9th to 10th for the final battle at the Fane. The module is supposed to have PCs starting at 5th level and progress through to 10th level towards the end. Divided on 5 chapters this should see them progress roughly 1 level per chapter. My personal way here was to have the PCs be max 6th level at the 1st chapter, max 7th level at the 2nd chapter, max 8th level at the 3rd chapter (as Pukunui mentioned), max 9th level at the 4th chapter, and max 10th level for the final 5th chapter. I think this will best adapt to the ELs of the adventure and the way the authors planned it. If you level them average 1.5 times per chapter they will be around 12th-13th level for the last chapter which is quite higher than they are supposed to. :) Again, each DM can of course change this as to his preferences! |
| snakeheadfish3301-19-07, 04:15 PM | I was just thinking about what you said here, C-Man ... and on p. 75 it says in the "designers' notes" sidebar: "the PCs ... should be 8th level by the time they reach this encounter". "This encounter" referring to the one with Ulwai in the Ghostlord's lair. That suggests that they should have be leveling up 1.5 times per chapter. My players all advanced to 11th level by Chapter 5. This was partly due to the fact that the PCs walked mostly everywhere and had loads of random encounters, by the games design. I even took out some of the randoms due to the fact I didn't want them leveling any higher before the Fane. I also set my randoms at static EL levels unlike the supplied tables where you roll randomly and could get various ELs depending on the number of creatures. Plus being 11th level at the Fane sure didn't help my players any so I don't think it hurt any. Another thing, as I said before, I gave out XP according to EL. If I had given out XP for each creatures CR then they would have gotten EVEN MORE XP than what they were given. That could have possibly taken them to level 12 ... possibly. Although I now know my error in the whole EL vs. CR debacle, same as Pukunui, I think if your looking for slower level progression XP based on EL is the way to go. And I think what Caligula is saying about the axe is, will you hit the players with everything you got, or take it easy on them? |
| pukunui01-19-07, 04:15 PM | I think part of the problem is the fact that the module is somewhat confused about what levels the PCs should be at in various places ... take the fact that on the cover it says levels 6-12 but on the inside, it says 5-10. I don't want you to think I'm belittling your method of awarding XP at the end of each chapter, C-Man ... I was just suggesting that if you do it that way, the PCs won't be level 8 until after their run-in with Ulwai and the Ghostlord ... whereas it seems clear to me that the designers wanted the PCs to be 8th level by that point, which suggests they were thinking DMs would be handing out XP as they went along. It probably isn't really 1.5 levels per chapter -- I have no confidence in my ability to do even basic math -- but my point is simply that perhaps they should be getting to 8th level by at least the middle of chapter 3 rather than the end of it. |
| pukunui01-19-07, 04:23 PM | Another thing, as I said before, I gave out XP according to EL. If I had given out XP for each creatures CR then they would have gotten EVEN MORE XP than what they were given. That could have possibly taken them to level 12 ... possibly. Although I now know my error in the whole EL vs. CR debacle, same as Pukunui, I think if your looking for slower level progression XP based on EL is the way to go.I think what I may do is award them XP based on overall EL in some instances (like with this initial encounter) but on CR in other places. That way I can control the speed at which they level up. So, for instance, I don't want them to get to level 6 now, so I don't want to give them XP based on CR for the Marauder Attack encounter. However, if it looked like they weren't going to be able to reach level 6 after Skull Gorge Bridge, I'd give them XP based on the CR of all those monsters (including Ozzy). Speaking of Ozzy ... anyone else notice that he's meant to be a Medium dragon but on the map, he takes up 4 squares as though he were a Large dragon? He also looks Large in the picture of Skull Gorge Bridge ... The other thing I noticed is that the flavor text indicates that Jorr is around 50, but if you look at his stats, it's clear he was designed using the elite erray and that the age modifiers weren't applied. Statistically he's still a young man. Has anyone still got that RHoD Errata thread bookmarked? It's fallen off the last page of this forum, so I can't post my findings in it. And I think what Caligula is saying about the axe is, will you hit the players with everything you got, or take it easy on them?LOL. Cross-thread thinking ... or something. I was like, "Wait, he didn't say that in this thread!" My answer: I'm really of two minds. As the DM, I don't want to be out to "get" my players' PCs. But when I try to put myself into the Red Hand's shoes, they have no intention of showing anyone any mercy, so I should play them as ruthless and hit the PCs with everything they've got. I also went to make it quite clear that this is going to be tough. Stopping an invasion shouldn't be easy. And for many, it will be too hard. |
| Caligula01-19-07, 04:31 PM | I think part of the problem is the fact that the module is somewhat confused about what levels the PCs should be at in various places ... take the fact that on the cover it says levels 6-12 but on the inside, it says 5-10. I don't want you to think I'm belittling your method of awarding XP at the end of each chapter, C-Man ... I was just suggesting that if you do it that way, the PCs won't be level 8 until after their run-in with Ulwai and the Ghostlord ... whereas it seems clear to me that the designers wanted the PCs to be 8th level by that point, which suggests they were thinking DMs would be handing out XP as they went along. It probably isn't really 1.5 levels per chapter -- I have no confidence in my ability to do even basic math -- but my point is simply that perhaps they should be getting to 8th level by at least the middle of chapter 3 rather than the end of it. Haha, no problem! :) My math isn't so advanced either. :embarrass In fact, I had my players start the RHoD module at 6th level. This was due to the fact that I found the module extremely difficult and that the most PCs were at 6th at that point after Sons of Gruumsh. That way I could level them once per chapter and follow the suggested path above. The cover is wrong. The adventure is for 5th - 10th level. It is not the first time Wizards products cover is wrong on its contents unfortunately.... However, if I had started the module with 5th level PCs, I would probably have leveled them to 6th after Vraath Keep, to 7th after Skull Gorge Bridge, and to 8th after Rhest. That way you would ensure having them at 8th level in time for chapter 3 and the Ghostlord. Many DMs allow level progression wherever whenever. I try to do XP rewards in "natural pauses" during the game. Most often between chapters or between missions. The most important thing here in my opinion is to have the PCs at 7th level at Rhest (a killer), 8th level at the Ghostlord (again a killer!), 9th level at Battle for Brindol (a kiiiiiiller!!!), and 10th for the final encounter at the Fane (dead, dead, dead!). Few parts of the D&D game has so many different interpretations as the XP reward system, which makes it by far the most interesting discussion also! :) |
| snakeheadfish3301-19-07, 04:37 PM | Speaking of Ozzy ... anyone else notice that he's meant to be a Medium dragon but on the map, he takes up 4 squares as though he were a Large dragon? He also looks Large in the picture of Skull Gorge Bridge ... I made a big stink about this one in my thread (I think). It drove me nuts that once I blew Skull Bridge up to miniature scale that his occupied space was so big. Even the painting that depicts the encounter has him looking huge. I spent lots of time comparing Ozy's stats to those of the green dragon miniature that matches the size. Then I would look at the map and the painting and I was like "what the?!" this doesn't match up at all. I know, I know, they suggest making him a larger dragon but that's not how the encounter is written. Plus I really got a kick out of the fact that the dragons encountered over the course of the adventure get bigger and badder as they go along. This is how it should be I feel. But lots of people did bump him up to a larger size and I think that's cool too. So I say, if you think your players are experienced enough or smart enough to face a dragon, that big, so early in the game then by all means do it. It's your game, it's your choice. |
| pukunui01-19-07, 04:42 PM | Haha, no problem! :) My math isn't so advanced either. :embarrass In fact, I had my players start the RHoD module at 6th level. This was due to the fact that I found the module extremely difficult and that the most PCs were at 6th at that point after Sons of Gruumsh. That way I could level them once per chapter and follow the suggested path above.Whew! I'm glad I'm not the only one ... ;) That's partly why I didn't want to run SoG, esp. with only 3 PCs. I was worried they'd end up too high level to begin RHoD. The cover is wrong. The adventure is for 5th - 10th level. It is not the first time Wizards products cover is wrong on its contents unfortunately....Right, but I'm beginning to wonder whether some spots inside the book are wrong as well ... I'm starting to get the sense that maybe they originally wrote it with one level range in mind (maybe 6-12) then changed to the other (5-10) but forgot to adjust some things in the module. Maybe that's why some parts seem too hard? However, if I had started the module with 5th level PCs, I would probably have leveled them to 6th after Vraath Keep, to 7th after Skull Gorge Bridge, and to 8th after Rhest. That way you would ensure having them at 8th level in time for chapter 3 and the Ghostlord. OK. It looks like that's probably what will happen with my group. Many DMs allow level progression wherever whenever. I try to do XP rewards in "natural pauses" during the game. Most often between chapters or between missions.I'd rather do it your way ... in fact, I'd rather they weren't allowed to level up without at least spending a week or more in "downtime", but esp .with a module like RHoD, that isn't possible. The most important thing here in my opinion is to have the PCs at 7th level at Rhest (a killer), 8th level at the Ghostlord (again a killer!), 9th level at Battle for Brindol (a kiiiiiiller!!!), and 10th for the final encounter at the Fane (dead, dead, dead!). :rofl: |
| Caligula01-19-07, 04:52 PM | I agree that the module is indeed exceptionally hard, but I don't think it's because they did something wrong. We must remember here that this is an epic struggle against a Dragon God. Tiamat. It should be no easy thing and this module will have it's share of blood. PC blood. Personally, I think it worked out fine to have the PCs start at 6th level and level once per chapter. This way you will have the PCs in prime for each challenge ahead. And I'm not saying this to brace myself :ayyyy!: , but rather as a compliment to those who wrote this module. Regarding Ozyrrandion, I used the large version. To me that was the obvious choice. Hravek Kharn would in my mind send only a large dragon to guard the most important structure of his entire campaign. The Skull Gorge Bridge. |
| pukunui01-19-07, 06:19 PM | I was just working my way through the encounters in Chapter 1, and I think that if the PCs were to get every possible experience point in that chapter (not including XP from random or modified encounters), then even if the PCs started the adventure with exactly 10,000XP (so bang on lvl 5), they'd be most of the way to lvl 8 (with approximately 25,000XP) by the time Chapter 2 begins. I'm definitely going to have to give them XP based on EL instead of individual CR for at least some of the encounters in Chapter 1 ... |
| Caligula01-20-07, 12:25 PM | I was just working my way through the encounters in Chapter 1, and I think that if the PCs were to get every possible experience point in that chapter (not including XP from random or modified encounters), then even if the PCs started the adventure with exactly 10,000XP (so bang on lvl 5), they'd be most of the way to lvl 8 (with approximately 25,000XP) by the time Chapter 2 begins. I'm definitely going to have to give them XP based on EL instead of individual CR for at least some of the encounters in Chapter 1 ... The alternative would be handing out XP at the end of each chapter, or after each major encounter as we discussed earlier. That way you can control the level progression. Excess XPs are forfeited according to the rules (You can only progress one level at a time!). :) |
| pukunui01-20-07, 03:10 PM | The alternative would be handing out XP at the end of each chapter, or after each major encounter as we discussed earlier. That way you can control the level progression. Excess XPs are forfeited according to the rules (You can only progress one level at a time!). :) I think I prefer doing it after each major encounter. Would you consider the Marauder Attack a major encounter? It's certainly the opening encounter. I'm going to go with it being an EL 9 encounter, and I'm going to give them XP based on that rather than individual monster CR because I don't want them reaching level 6 just yet. I want that to wait until after Vraath Keep. So I'll give them XP for the Marauder Attack next session, but everything they earn between that point and Vraath Keep won't be awarded until after that fight. Then everything between Vraath Keep and Skull Gorge Bridge will be awarded after that fight. Then any miscellaneous XP earned after SGB (depending on their course of action re: standing and fighting or evacuating the town and whether they uncover Jarett as "Lady Dagger", etc etc) will be awarded right at the end of the chapter before we move on to Rhest. |
| Caligula01-20-07, 03:40 PM | I think I prefer doing it after each major encounter. Would you consider the Marauder Attack a major encounter? It's certainly the opening encounter. I'm going to go with it being an EL 9 encounter, and I'm going to give them XP based on that rather than individual monster CR because I don't want them reaching level 6 just yet. I want that to wait until after Vraath Keep. So I'll give them XP for the Marauder Attack next session, but everything they earn between that point and Vraath Keep won't be awarded until after that fight. Then everything between Vraath Keep and Skull Gorge Bridge will be awarded after that fight. Then any miscellaneous XP earned after SGB (depending on their course of action re: standing and fighting or evacuating the town and whether they uncover Jarett as "Lady Dagger", etc etc) will be awarded right at the end of the chapter before we move on to Rhest. I think this is open to personal opinion and interpretation. Personally I would not consider "Marauder Attack" one of the major encounters, but I agree it is a tough one indeed. For me the major encounters are Vraath Keep, Skull Gorge Bridge, Rhest, and the Ghostlord in the first 3 chapters. If you deal out XP after each of those you will: 1) Have the PCs at 7th level in Rhest which is totally necessary to stand the slightest chance; 2) Have the PCs at 8th level by the Ghostlord which is also a minimum requirement; and 3) Be perfect in line for the Battle of Brindol! (minimum 8th-9th levels) :) Regarding excessive available XPs in the modules - If you count all possible available XPs in most official adventures there are always excessive XPs therein. Most authors simply don't think that the players will score 90-100% of the XPs. But some do and when/if they do the DM must check it somehow. That is why I use a "chapter wise" XP reward system. That way I can control the players level progression and keep it in line with the storyline at all times. I think your idea to deal out XP after the major encounters is terrific and to be frank with you my system is actually a mixture of "major encounters" and "chapters". I dealt out XPs after Skull Gorge Bridge which is not quite the end of the first chapter, and I dealt out XPs after Rhest which is also not quite the end of chapter 2. Just to be precise. The Xps were awarded as they returned to Drellin's Ferry and Starsong Hill respectively, directly after the combat. The bottom line here is to try and keep the PCs level progression in line with the story and there are several good ways to do just that! :) |
| pukunui01-20-07, 04:21 PM | All good points, as usual, C-Man. Sometimes I really wish I was living in Stockholm so that I could play in your group. And to start with -- I'm going to only award them XP based on the EL for Marauder Attack. If I give them XP based on the CRs of the monsters in the encounter, then they'll get enough to level up to 6th level. I don't want them to reach 6th level until after Vraath Keep. |
| CreepingCharly01-21-07, 12:50 PM | I don't know if I've already showed you guys this, but this is the system I decided to use after experiencing (no pun intended ;)) the same problems. EL-XP-Calculator-35-v1.6.zip (http://www.andargor.com/files/EL-XP-Calculator-35-v1.6.zip) : Courtesy of Andargor I had the same problem with the large amounts of various creatures and giving out XP for them. When you get into big groups, it seems to me that there should be diminishing returns on XP, so just tallying it all up is too much IMO. This program takes a bit to understand, but it appealed to my math/accounting sensibilities and seemed to make more sense handling large groups than Wizards model. The only problem I have with this system so far is how it handles lower-level PCs. Since it assumes that they don't contribute as much, they get less XP. I think I am going to multiply any lower-level PC's XP by a certain percentage to offset this however (right now everyone is at the same lvl). I am handing out XP at the beginning of each session (we play every-other week so I have time) and I haven't run into any balance issues yet. I started them 75% to lvl 6. Right now they are almost lvl 7 and are attacking the bridge next game. This setup seems to be working well for me, the players are having fun and they haven't waltzed through any encounters so far. Hope that Helps, Charly |
| pukunui01-21-07, 01:56 PM | Thanks, Charly. According to that calculator, I should be awarding them 1713XP each for what amounts to roughly an EL 10 encounter! |
| CreepingCharly01-21-07, 02:22 PM | I think you are reading the spreadsheet incorrectly. I don't know the specifics of your group, but I re-entered my group to test and the group total was 1525 XP, and the per PC amount was 690. You want to look towards the top-right where it says "Group XP per character" to find out the individual rewards. It is kind of deceiving having that big number with a heading of "XP" in the same row as the PC information. ;) It took me a bit to get familiar with it as well. I also got an EL of 9.47 with a Survival Rate of 77%, which seems about right. EL 8 seemed a bit low to me. My group didn't have too much trouble (but I could see how they could have) as they targeted Uth'lar and Zarr right away, causing the rest of the regulars to retreat upon their demise. --Charly |
| Caligula01-21-07, 02:40 PM | Survival rate 77% sounds about right. My group was never threatened but it took some time to clear the path. The Hobgoblin Bladebearers are just silly, he was cut down in 2 sec! Ridiculous... And I had prepared the ambush a bit better than the original module - I had the ambushers build platforms up in the trees for cover and concealment. :cool: |
| pukunui01-21-07, 02:54 PM | I think you are reading the spreadsheet incorrectly. I don't know the specifics of your group, but I re-entered my group to test and the group total was 1525 XP, and the per PC amount was 690. You want to look towards the top-right where it says "Group XP per character" to find out the individual rewards. It is kind of deceiving having that big number with a heading of "XP" in the same row as the PC information. ;) It took me a bit to get familiar with it as well.I don't see where it says "group total". It says "XP" and if you hover the mouse over the little red arrow, it says "XP awarded using the DMG method". That's 1713XP. I was ignoring the Chi/Rho XP thing, which says 825XP. As far as I can see, it doesn't list the total XP for the encounter anywhere. 825 isn't a quarter of 1713. It's just saying, if you want to go by the DMG, use 1713. If you want to go by our special calculations, use 825. I calculated it using: CR 1 (Qty 12) for the hob regulars CR 3 (Qty 1) for Zarr CR 4 (Qty 1) for Uth-lar Hell hound (Qty 2) I also got an EL of 9.47 with a Survival Rate of 77%, which seems about right. EL 8 seemed a bit low to me. My group didn't have too much trouble (but I could see how they could have) as they targeted Uth'lar and Zarr right away, causing the rest of the regulars to retreat upon their demise.I got an EL of 9.76 with a survival rate of 73%. I definitely agree that EL 8 is too low and I just don't get why James & Rich think that's an "artificially high" EL. Survival rate 77% sounds about right. My group was never threatened but it took some time to clear the path. The Hobgoblin Bladebearers are just silly, he was cut down in 2 sec! Ridiculous... And I had prepared the ambush a bit better than the original module - I had the ambushers build platforms up in the trees for cover and concealment. :cool:Uth-lar managed to get some hits in during my encounter, as did Zarr, but it wouldn't have made much of a difference if I'd built platforms for the archers ... they would have been stuck there with or without them because of Tharlas' entangle and spike growth spells. :pbbbtt: EDIT: I think I gave them too much XP for that trap encounter. I gave them full XP for each of the traps that they had successfully bypassed, but it just comes across as seeming like a lot of XP (2500XP each) for very little effort. If they'd succeeded against all of the traps, they may well have reach 6th level just from that! Yikes! Good thing we're good and properly into RHoD now and I can just rely on what's written in the adventure ... |
| Caligula01-21-07, 03:09 PM | Now I don't want to speak for the authors here, but my understanding of what they mean by "artificially high EL" is that they consider this to be an "easy" EL 8 encounter. Now, consider for a while which creatures can make up an EL 8 encounter. Regiarix is one. That's just one example, but agree that a combat ready Regiarix would be a lot worse to encounter than the "Marauder Attack," that are basically just many low level and easy adversaries. I know some DMs out there consider "Marauder Attack" a heavy opening of the module, but if the players get their act together they should prevail quite easily. Personally, I think it is a great opening á la James Bond 007, where you set the pace and the seriousness straight from step 1. This way it can't escape the players how close the horde and it's scouting forces are to the valley. Adding stress and nerves from the get go. :cool: |
| pukunui01-21-07, 04:16 PM | Now I don't want to speak for the authors here, but my understanding of what they mean by "artificially high EL" is that they consider this to be an "easy" EL 8 encounter.Fair enough. I can see that. The EL is "artificially high" in comparison to the effectiveness of the individual creatures of which it is comprised rather than being "artificially high" in comparison to the PCs' average power level. I think the Marauder Attack would have been a lot harder without Tharlas. If he hadn't been able to basically pin the enemies in place with his plant control spells, then they would've been swarming all over the PCs, attacking them at melee and getting flanking bonuses ... Instead, they were forced to shoot them with their bows, which just caused the PCs to retreat in to the trees to gain cover, thereby rendering the ranged attacks totally ineffectual (the hobs could've only hit the PCs on a natural 20). I sort of cheated by allowing Zarr to escape through the entanglement and loop around off the map to appear behind the PCs. However, he didn't last long against the concerted efforts of the PCs, even though he did manage to smite Tharlas and then successfully cast cure moderate wounds on himself. So I think this encounter has the potential to be deadly - esp. for PCs who aren't very strategic in their thinking - but also has the potential to be ridiculously easy. For my group, it wasn't really ever life-threatening, but it sure took a long time ... something like 2-3 hours. Anyway, I sincerely hope that this encounter set the tone for the rest of the adventure. I asked Baz's player what his expectations were for the coming adventure and he said he didn't know what to expect. So I told him to expect his character to die ... :evillaugh |
| Caligula01-21-07, 04:43 PM | Anyway, I sincerely hope that this encounter set the tone for the rest of the adventure. I asked Baz's player what his expectations were for the coming adventure and he said he didn't know what to expect. So I told him to expect his character to die ... :evillaugh :rofl: Give it to 'em Pukunui!!! If your poor players had any idea what awaits them.... :D ....Dragon snack!!! |
| pukunui01-21-07, 04:48 PM | :rofl: Give it to 'em Pukunui!!! If your poor players had any idea what awaits them.... :D ....Dragon snack!!!LOL. Definitely! I don't think they've got even the faintest idea that they'll be facing dragons! |
| pukunui01-21-07, 04:57 PM | Well, ladies and gentlemen, I believe I have myself a dilemma. You see, because of scheduling conflicts once my sister-in-law and I start school next month, we may not be able to play regularly anymore. This is how it breaks down: Sundays: good for me, no good for the sis's bf (he's got band practice) Mondays: no good for sis or me due to school Tuesdays: good for others, not so good for me Wednesdays: see Monday Thursdays: our regular play day - no good for me because of school Fridays: good for me, no good for sis and bf as they would like to retain their social life Saturdays: no good for anybody If I want to keep playing, it'll have to be without my sister-in-law and her boyfriend. That means I'd be down to one player - my brother-in-law. He has no social life, like me, so any day works for him really. My wife has expressed an interest in learning to play, but that's still only two players. I could try to recruit more players, but I don't know anyone else willing to play, and I've never really liked the idea of playing with total strangers ... So yeah, that's my dilemma. Either I stop playing (perish the thought) or I play with 1-2 players on a Friday night and/or Sunday night. |
| Caligula01-21-07, 05:02 PM | Well, ladies and gentlemen, I believe I have myself a dilemma. You see, because of scheduling conflicts once my sister-in-law and I start school next month, we may not be able to play regularly anymore. This is how it breaks down: Sundays: good for me, no good for the sis's bf (he's got band practice) Mondays: no good for sis or me due to school Tuesdays: good for others, not so good for me Wednesdays: see Monday Thursdays: our regular play day - no good for me because of school Fridays: good for me, no good for sis and bf as they would like to retain their social life Saturdays: no good for anybody If I want to keep playing, it'll have to be without my sister-in-law and her boyfriend. That means I'd be down to one player - my brother-in-law. He has no social life, like me, so any day works for him really. My wife has expressed an interest in learning to play, but that's still only two players. I could try to recruit more players, but I don't know anyone else willing to play, and I've never really liked the idea of playing with total strangers ... So yeah, that's my dilemma. Either I stop playing (perish the thought) or I play with 1-2 players on a Friday night and/or Sunday night. Keep going with 2 players until you find a 3rd and a 4th. Ask neighbours, colleagues, friends friends, etc. You will find more heroes around the corner! :) I look forward to their reaction when they succeed on a Knowledge Religion check on Tiamat...."What? The Queen of Evil Dragons!!?? Mama...." :mymy: :D |
| pukunui01-21-07, 05:08 PM | Keep going with 2 players until you find a 3rd and a 4th. Ask neighbours, colleagues, friends friends, etc. You will find more heroes around the corner! :)I don't mind the idea of running a game for just two people -- thet obvious solution would be to let them each run 2 characters. My wife, despite being a total newbie, is undoubtedly smart enough to handle that, and my bro-in-law has been playing long enough now, in my opinion, that he could manage it as well. Alternatively, he could run two, my wife one, and we could just keep using CPCs. I look forward to their reaction when they succeed on a Knowledge Religion check on Tiamat...."What? The Queen of Evil Dragons!!?? Mama...." :mymy:Mmm, yes, next session they'll undoubtedly find Zarr's holy symbol and wonder what it is ... |
| CreepingCharly01-21-07, 05:32 PM | I don't see where it says "group total". It says "XP" and if you hover the mouse over the little red arrow, it says "XP awarded using the DMG method". That's 1713XP. I was ignoring the Chi/Rho XP thing, which says 825XP. As far as I can see, it doesn't list the total XP for the encounter anywhere. 825 isn't a quarter of 1713. It's just saying, if you want to go by the DMG, use 1713. If you want to go by our special calculations, use 825. I calculated it using: CR 1 (Qty 12) for the hob regulars CR 3 (Qty 1) for Zarr CR 4 (Qty 1) for Uth-lar Hell hound (Qty 2) I got an EL of 9.76 with a survival rate of 73%. I definitely agree that EL 8 is too low and I just don't get why James & Rich think that's an "artificially high" EL. I forgot about there being 2 hellhounds instead of one (plus the summoned 1), so I got the same numbers as you did after I changed that. Now that I look at it, you are right about there not being a group total. I guess the DMG total just looked so big comparatively that I assumed that's what it was. Well, I thought I'd just share my method in the hopes that it might help some people. This has worked so far for my group pacing-wise so far. Could you please post what plan you come up with? I'm always on the lookout for new ways to do things! That's what I love about these boards... Thanks, Charly |
| pukunui01-21-07, 07:11 PM | I forgot about there being 2 hellhounds instead of one (plus the summoned 1), so I got the same numbers as you did after I changed that. Now that I look at it, you are right about there not being a group total. I guess the DMG total just looked so big comparatively that I assumed that's what it was.No worries, Charly. Could you please post what plan you come up with? I'm always on the lookout for new ways to do things! That's what I love about these boards...Do you mean my plan for doling out XP or for figuring out how to keep on playing during the school year? :confused: |
| CreepingCharly01-21-07, 09:08 PM | Do you mean my plan for doling out XP or for figuring out how to keep on playing during the school year? :confused: For dealing out XP :) I am all too familiar with trying to squeeze D&D into a number of people's busy schedules... :banghead: Best of luck to you and your group. I'm sure you guys can figure something out. :thumbsup: --Charly |
| pukunui01-21-07, 09:27 PM | For dealing out XP :) I am all too familiar with trying to squeeze D&D into a number of people's busy schedules... :banghead: Best of luck to you and your group. I'm sure you guys can figure something out. :thumbsup: --Charly I figured that's what you meant. I've already decided I'm going to award them XP based on the EL for Marauder Attack, but after that, we'll see ... I'm going to try to prevent them from leveling up until they've finished Vraath Keep. Hopefully they won't come close to leveling up again until the very end of Chapter 1 (as opposed to immediately after Skull Gorge Bridge). |
| gamertall01-22-07, 12:10 PM | I empathize with those who have expressed XP concerns in this thread. I am not DMing currently, but am a player in two campaigns. One of the campaigns is run by a former player of mine. He is running the "Shattered Gates of Slaughtergaarde" for me an three other players. He is also a newbie DM; actually it is his very FIRST time. He knows that we should be a certain level by the end of the module. What he is not sure on is how much XP is given within the module itself. So we came up with a plan. He has chosen points in the module where we will "level up". For example, at the end of the session week before last, the party reached one of his prechosen points for us to "level up". The DM gave us 1000 XP and we prepped our characters for the next session. Because all of us players were in agreement on this way of leveling up, we didn't fret at the end of each combat or encounter about "how many XP did we get?" For anybody with item creation feats or spells that require an XP component, he allows that person 10 percent of the new level's XP total in extra points to spend on crafting and spellcasting requirements. For example, we are now second level so he gave 100 XP to the party Wizard to Scribe Scrolls. Since this is a first time test run, we don't yet know how it will all work out, but so far all of us players are happy with the decision. If it's ok, I'll keep you posted on this point using this thread, because I like Pukunui's threads. :D |
| pukunui01-22-07, 02:12 PM | Since this is a first time test run, we don't yet know how it will all work out, but so far all of us players are happy with the decision. If it's ok, I'll keep you posted on this point using this thread, because I like Pukunui's threads. :D:ayyyy!: If I was the type to have an ego pad, that last bit would be going in it right now ... ;) That sounds like a good plan, btw, GT. I think next time I run a campaign, I might do something similar. I'm tired of hearing my players demand XP of me after an encounter (they don't do it every time, but often enough that it's annoying ... on the other hand, though, I admit to being guilty of the same thing in my sis-in-law's game. Practically as soon as combat is over, one of us will yell out "XP!"). So yeah, I'd like to try running a campaign where I pretty much decide when the characters will level up rather than rely on all that math ... |
| pukunui01-24-07, 04:06 PM | Question for you guys: Do you think it would be possible to run RHoD with only 1-2 players? The reason I ask is that I'm pretty sure my group is about to self-destruct and in the aftermath, all I'll be left with is my wife, who has said she'd like to learn how to play d&d, and possibly her brother - but I'm not even certain about him. If he sides with his sister (not my wife), then I'll probably have to count him out too ... :weep: |
| snakeheadfish3301-25-07, 11:10 AM | Question for you guys: Do you think it would be possible to run RHoD with only 1-2 players? The reason I ask is that I'm pretty sure my group is about to self-destruct and in the aftermath, all I'll be left with is my wife, who has said she'd like to learn how to play d&d, and possibly her brother - but I'm not even certain about him. If he sides with his sister (not my wife), then I'll probably have to count him out too ... :weep: Pukunui, this is how my game is run. Typically I have 1-2 players and myself only. Anyone in my game circle knows, if you can't make a session either myself or the other player will run your character. We have invited others, many times, into our game group but no one has ever stuck with it besides the guys i've been rolling dice with since high-school (approx. 17 years). I say, however you can get your game on - DO IT. Sure I'm a bit jealous of the larger game groups and sure our game group is tiny, but I like the intimacy of it and you have less schedules to try to coordinate with. We still have a blast and thats what counts the most. |
| pukunui01-25-07, 02:10 PM | Hey, snakeheadfish! That's great to hear. That gives me a lot of encouragement. I don't know if my sister-in-law and her boyfriend will keep coming to the next couple of sessions before school starts, but once we move to my school schedule, they won't be able to come anyway ... I wonder if I should keep running their characters for them or have those characters go away and introduce new ones? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, but I suppose we'll just deal with it when the time comes. |
| pukunui01-29-07, 04:31 AM | So I have no idea what's going on this week, if anything -- it's my regularly scheduled week to host d&d, but I haven't heard from my sis-in-law or her bf as to whether they still want to play with me. My bro-in-law hasn't said anything either. I decided I'd let them make the first move ... Anyway, in the meantime, I've been making some progress with my wife. She's slowly starting to get into it. We finished filling out her character sheet today. She wants to play an elf rogue named Anita Moonwind. I'm letting her start at level 5 as I figure it shouldn't be too difficult to do with a rogue. She rolled fairly well. Her PC's stats are: STR 11 DEX 20 CON 11 INT 17 WIS 11 CHA 13. If I have to, I'll just pick up where we left off last time, with only my bro-in-law's character (Nikos) active, and I'll run Baz and Tharlas as NPCs until they get into Drellin's Ferry, then I'll have the latter two characters go their separate ways and I'll introduce my wife's character. If he's willing, I'll get the bro to roll up a second PC for himself. Fingers crossed that it all works out ok! |
| gamertall01-29-07, 10:52 AM | I am sorry to here that you were attacked by the dreaded game killer: the schedule! I've also been attacked by this dreaded necessity in the past and present. One of the players in the "Slaughtergaarde" campaign had her work schedule changed this past weekend, which completely ruined our bi-weekly D&D game! It's unknown whether this campaign will continue, but we may try to get the game going on a Tuesday evening. Try to do what you can Pukunui and I feel your pain. |
| pukunui01-29-07, 01:38 PM | Thanks for the kind words, GT. |
| Caligula01-30-07, 03:26 PM | Pukunui, I just talked with a fellow DM here in Stockholm. He has 6 active players now in his group, and 2 occasional players. All but 1 was found on the Internet. He uses a Stockholm/Swedish site for roleplaying games. In my group 5 out of 7 players were found by means of Internet ads on Swedish websites. This must surely be a good idea in the land of the great white cloud also. Try it! :) |
| pukunui01-30-07, 04:06 PM | What kind of websites? There aren't many gaming websites here in NZ. Not ones that I'm aware of, anyway. |
| Caligula01-30-07, 04:24 PM | They are some kind of community boards for roleplaying. I know you don't speak Swedish but you might want to have a look at them anyway: www.rollspel.nu www.sverok.se They have forums and many other nice functions. One of those is the "Player Wanted" area. I thought most countries had RPG sites like this...Are you sure there is none for NZ? |
| pukunui01-30-07, 04:29 PM | There might be, but I doubt it. It's such a tiny country. Only 4 million people. I tried posting a request in the classifieds forum here but the people who responded were all kind of far away, played on Saturday, and weren't looking to join my game, but rather were looking for people to join their game. If I was still living back home in Philadelphia, I'd have plenty of people to play with ... EDIT: I found one - www.boardgames.co.nz |
| pukunui02-03-07, 10:13 PM | Hey all, Changes are afoot in my gaming life. I've made my peace with my sister-in-law. I'm not going to play in her campaign anymore, but she's going to keep playing in mine. Her bf isn't, though - he says he'd be playing in too many different d&d games. All is not lost, however, because my wife is going to give the game a try. We're going to play at my house on Sunday afternoons, and hopefully our daughter will cooperate ... :D So I'm still a DM with only 3 players, but I'm going to run a DMPC to keep the party at 4. I'll start another new thread ... I was thinking of calling it the New Adventures in the World of RHoD. LOL. I haven't decided yet what we'll start with, but I've pre-ordered the Barrow of the Forgotten King, which is for 2nd level PCs. Then I'll probably run a modified version of Sons of Gruumsh. Then we'll get back to Red Hand of Doom. I also ordered a copy of Unearthed Arcana and Scourge of the Howling Horde, but it won't arrive in time for me to use it, so I need to find some other 1st level adventure with which to kick off the game. I was thinking of using the free Burning Plague adventure, but my sister-in-law used that for her campaign, so I'd need to modify it (which is what I was going to do anyway ...). |
| Caligula02-04-07, 03:25 AM | Great stuff Pukunui! I guess in real-life you took a "20" on Diplomacy.... :D It seems like you guys could reach a compromise after all....You could focus on your campaign with her still participating in it, and she gets to have sole rights on her boyfriends game.... ;) But are you really going to start all over again??? Why not continue RHoD as is? Anyway, I'm happy for you and best of luck to you! :) |
| pukunui02-04-07, 03:39 AM | Great stuff Pukunui! I guess in real-life you took a "20" on Diplomacy.... :DIt didn't feel that way, but I suppose you could be right. ;) It seems like you guys could reach a compromise after all....You could focus on your campaign with her still participating in it, and she gets to have sole rights on her boyfriends game.... ;)Sort of. I won't be playing in her game anymore, but she'll still be playing in mine. She's not actually playing in her bf's game (he plays with another group), but he'll still play with her but not with me. It's rather complicated, I suppose. But are you really going to start all over again??? Why not continue RHoD as is?Two reasons: I wanted to start afresh at 1st level for my wife's sake, and I also wanted to introduce a number of new rules (like I'm going to use the spontaneous divine caster variant from Unearthed Arcana for clerics and druids - this actually backfired, though. I don't really like the Vancian system anyway, but I was trying to send my sis-in-law a subtle hint that I didn't want her to play a character that had to prepare spells, so what did she do? She chose to play a wizard ... :P) Anyway, I'm happy for you and best of luck to you! :)Thanks. I'll be DMing weekly now, so hopefully it won't take too long to get back to RHoD! :D :D :D |
| pukunui02-04-07, 02:37 PM | Aww man, I go back and forth so much! Now I don't want to start over. I couldn't sleep last night because I was agonizing so much about d&d (it didn't help that my daughter wasn't sleeping well either :pbbbtt:). For a while I was thinking that I should just give up d&d all together because it's stressing me out so much. The problem is: I'm a hopeless perfectionist and control freak (I have always been so), and so I want everything to be perfect and exactly how I envision it, but of course it never is ... I wanted to get my players "emotionally attached" to Elsir Vale as I felt it would give the Red Hand of Doom a greater impact. I still like that idea. But now I'm not so sure I have the patience to pull it off now. Also, I'm thinking the adventure will probably have enough of an impact as it is ... I'm sure my in-laws will really love it if I change my mind again. :rolleyes: |
| Caligula02-04-07, 03:47 PM | Aww man, I go back and forth so much! Now I don't want to start over. I couldn't sleep last night because I was agonizing so much about d&d (it didn't help that my daughter wasn't sleeping well either :pbbbtt:). For a while I was thinking that I should just give up d&d all together because it's stressing me out so much. The problem is: I'm a hopeless perfectionist and control freak (I have always been so), and so I want everything to be perfect and exactly how I envision it, but of course it never is ... I wanted to get my players "emotionally attached" to Elsir Vale as I felt it would give the Red Hand of Doom a greater impact. I still like that idea. But now I'm not so sure I have the patience to pull it off now. Also, I'm thinking the adventure will probably have enough of an impact as it is ... I'm sure my in-laws will really love it if I change my mind again. :rolleyes: The thing is, the RHoD campaign is so long that the players will feel for the valley anyhow. We have played since early June and have just recently entered chapter 4! :eek: I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, I just wanted you to know that after several months of playing the players do undoubtedly get emotionally attached to the valley and it's inhabitants. Just so you know! :) |
| pukunui02-04-07, 04:14 PM | The thing is, the RHoD campaign is so long that the players will feel for the valley anyhow. We have played since early June and have just recently entered chapter 4! :eek: I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, I just wanted you to know that after several months of playing the players do undoubtedly get emotionally attached to the valley and it's inhabitants. Just so you know! :) Believe me, C-Man! I have changed my mind! Many times! But I'm beginning to see it your way -- that's what I meant when I said that the adventure will probably have enough of an impact on them anyway, even if I haven't done a super-duper-awesome job of building it up beforehand. I can always do that some other time if I ever run RHoD again. |
| gamertall02-05-07, 02:30 PM | I'm glad to learn that you will be continuing or beginning your campaign for Red Hand of Doom. You get to play every week?! Lucky. :D I am looking forward to reading about your games. Keep up the good work. |
| pukunui02-05-07, 02:41 PM | I'm glad to learn that you will be continuing or beginning your campaign for Red Hand of Doom. You get to play every week?! Lucky. :D I am looking forward to reading about your games. Keep up the good work. I sure hope so!! (EDIT: That I'll be continuing my game and playing weekly, that is -- not that you're looking forward to reading my recaps ... ;)) |
| snakeheadfish3302-05-07, 03:32 PM | Like I said before. Do whatever it takes to keep the game going. I'm happy you get to do that. I dislike when the real world shakes-up the game-world and I'm very pleased you were able to get around that. Keep the dice rolls coming ... and the recaps. |
| pukunui02-05-07, 03:49 PM | Like I said before. Do whatever it takes to keep the game going. I'm happy you get to do that. I dislike when the real world shakes-up the game-world and I'm very pleased you were able to get around that. Keep the dice rolls coming ... and the recaps.I only hope I've been able to get around the RL issues ... we're currently arguing about whether to start over or continue the RHoD campaign, and I'm worried that it won't work out for both my wife and me to play because our daughter will want attention and such. |
| pukunui02-06-07, 02:47 PM | I only hope I've been able to get around the RL issues ... we're currently arguing about whether to start over or continue the RHoD campaign, and I'm worried that it won't work out for both my wife and me to play because our daughter will want attention and such. In fact, I'm now unsure whether I have been able to work out the RL issues with my group. I'm beginning to the think that the main problem now is that my preferred play style is significantly different from that of my in-laws. They're still relatively new to the game, so they want to stick to the basics and not use any variants and such, but I'm big into experimenting. I want to customize the game to how I think it should be played, but they don't seem to like any of my changes and they're not at all experimental. They're not adaptable. I think I need to find a group of players who are willing to experiment and who are up to trying different things on the fly. Current mood: :allalone: |
| snakeheadfish3302-06-07, 03:09 PM | sorry this is all weighing so heavily on you P. It's sometimes very tough to mesh play styles. It's one of the reasons why my ORIGINAL game group splintered into two. One of the group did not want to stick so close to the rules and liked putting his own spin on them. Sure, I have no real problem with that but it got a little out of control. So he's left our side and started his own campaign group who play by his rules. I still game with him 1-2 times a year and when I DM I won't use his rules. I enjoy gaming with him quite a bit and miss him at the table regularly. He has commented that he's glad he doesn't play with the rules we use and that he likes his twist on them so much better. My group thinks he's a little crazy ... but he's our dog-brother and we love him nonetheless. I also had a VERY difficult time with a game group I tried to get started once, composed of inexperienced players. The game turned out to be more of a social gathering for all of them. They had no focus. If they weren't actively rolling dice their attentions would wane. We would all have dinner together and it was great to get together with them all but I'm a much more serious gamer and could NOT deal with their half-a##ed style of play. Thus despite attempting to keep this game group going it eventually farted out and did not pick back up. Occassionally one of them will ask about playing again but I'm just not sure if I can do it. I mean, we would spend an entire game session together and only get 1-3 rooms explored. It was a true test for me to understand their type of play and to have the patience to deal with it. I guess what I'm getting at is, if you feel you cannot adapt to meet your players needs, then yes - do your best to gather another game group. |
| pukunui02-06-07, 03:16 PM | Thanks, snakeheadfish. I needed that. What makes my situation worse is that I feel very isolated in this foreign country. At the moment I am feeling terribly homesick. I miss my friends and family. I feel like my wife and I have no support here. We don't have any friends, and her family isn't all that supportive. They're nice people and I like them, but I know for a fact that my family is much more communicative and supportive ... and so I'm struggling with just living here in general, and it doesn't help that I'm also struggling with my d&d group. The whole reason I got back into the game after not playing for 5 years was because I thought it would be my one social activity while I was staying at home taking care of my daughter. I thought it would help to keep me sane during a week otherwise spent mostly with someone who can't speak English. Unfortunately, it seems to have had the opposite effect. D&D has started driving me crazy (that and a serious lack of sleep -- I don't think I've had a good night's sleep in over a year :pbbbtt:). But I'm glad I can find some support here on the boards. Guys like you and GT and C-Man are all very supportive, and I really appreciate it. I wish I could meet you guys in person. I wish I could play d&d with you guys! Sigh ... |
| Caligula02-06-07, 10:44 PM | Pukunui, I also live abroad a couple of times and it is tough sometimes. Home is such a sweet place when you miss it. But being abroad is a great experience so enjoy it while you can. You can always go back sometime! Try to keep the game going even when you are a little group. We had evenings some time back when only I and my cousin played. Then another guy joined. Then another. It's really a snowball effect when people see you have a campaign going and that there is a opportunity to play regularly. Keep the faith! ;) |
| pukunui02-06-07, 10:49 PM | Thanks, C-Man! Gotta keep the faith ... for my wife's sake, if no one else's. This is her country, after all. I have located some other groups, but one is kind of far and plays on Saturdays, while the other is closer but plays on Tuesdays. Neither of those days will work for me once I start my teacher's training. Besides, I'm not really sure I want to join an existing group. I'd rather start afresh with a new group (not necessarily with new players, just with people who aren't currently part of a group, if you get the distinction). Current Mood: :bigeyes: |
| snakeheadfish3302-07-07, 12:24 AM | Yo P! Keep your chin up. The game must go on. Things can change in a flash. You know that friend of mine I posted about earlier? The one I don't game with but once or twice a year? Well we've begun talking about starting a new group together for rolling on Monday evenings once the winter has passed. Since it's so early in the planning stages I have no idea who will DM. I'm kinda hoping it will be him. I want to keep an open mind about his style of play and his group's rules. I figure the only way to really be able to comment on them is having played them myself. So we will have to see. From your posts you seem to be driven to suceed. Also dedicated to those around you. I believe you can work out something if you set your mind to it (which you have). At least I'm pulling for ya. |
| pukunui02-07-07, 12:47 AM | Thanks, snakehead. I hope it all works out for me, too. :) |
| Undercover02-07-07, 08:48 PM | Thanks, snakehead. I hope it all works out for me, too. :) :rofl: What the hell, me too! |
| sidekick02-09-07, 04:21 AM | Hey there Pukunnui, just thought I’d drop in with words of encouragement. I’m sorry that you’re having trouble in NZ, but stick it out. The lack of sleep thing, I empathise as the yard apes are particularly difficult to handle for first time parents and when they’re too young to run around the yard as is their nature. That will change once your kid actually starts sleeping through the night :). Also as someone living as far away from their home as it can get I totally understand what you’re going through. I found my first year here in England pretty hard, and at times its still a bit rough but overall I really enjoy it here. I’m a bit disappointed in my fellow kiwi’s about you having trouble making friends. Kiwi’s are by and large a good group of people – friendly outgoing etc, I’m sorry that your struggling with a lack of support. Whereabouts’ in NZ are you living? Some of the cities/people are a bit cliquey, but others are full of friendly, helpful people. I’d recommend a sport? I know my mates back home play in a 5 a side soccer tournament. Its social grade (ie the skill level ain’t that hot), only takes about 30 mins of play 1/week on a Wednesday evening. They play with some great people and have made at least one good friend (who’s German incidentally). Sometimes just a small release from the house/family can keep you sane. Especially when you’re at home looking after the kids. No-one (woman or male) should take on that responsibility and not have a weekly outlet where they can be around other adults, have fun and generally just unwind from what is effectively a very hard and taxing job – Raising children. Hang in there mate, Kia Kaha! Ben ‘Sidekick’ Creet |
| pukunui02-09-07, 05:03 AM | Hey there Pukunnui, just thought I’d drop in with words of encouragement.Hi Sidekick. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. From one expat to another: I really appreciate it. I’m sorry that you’re having trouble in NZ, but stick it out. The lack of sleep thing, I empathise as the yard apes are particularly difficult to handle for first time parents and when they’re too young to run around the yard as is their nature.It's not just the littlie. She's sleeping better now than she used to ... it's a combination of things - stress, anxiety about going back to school, the heat and humidity, etc. I’m a bit disappointed in my fellow kiwi’s about you having trouble making friends. Kiwi’s are by and large a good group of people – friendly outgoing etc, I’m sorry that your struggling with a lack of support. Aww, I don't know that it's your fellow Kiwis' faults. I've made some acquaintances and such, but I'm finding that it's really hard to make lasting friendships with people as an adult. Growing up with someone and thus having a shared history really makes a huge difference. Also, when you're younger, you have more free time to do stuff together. It's also me. I'm not very good at going out and making friends. If I'm thrown into situations where I interact with people on a daily basis, I can make friends, but I can't actively go out and seek them. Whereabouts’ in NZ are you living? Some of the cities/people are a bit cliquey, but others are full of friendly, helpful people.I'm in Auckland. :P I’d recommend a sport? I know my mates back home play in a 5 a side soccer tournament. Its social grade (ie the skill level ain’t that hot), only takes about 30 mins of play 1/week on a Wednesday evening. They play with some great people and have made at least one good friend (who’s German incidentally).I hate sports, but thanks. Actually, my wife is playing on the American Club softball team. I wanted to play too, but we couldn't both play with the littlie around. I'm hoping to play next year. Sometimes just a small release from the house/family can keep you sane. Especially when you’re at home looking after the kids. No-one (woman or male) should take on that responsibility and not have a weekly outlet where they can be around other adults, have fun and generally just unwind from what is effectively a very hard and taxing job – Raising children.Yeah. That's what I was hoping d&d would be, but instead it's been the exact opposite -- just a steadily increasing build-up of tension and frustration. Sigh ... Hang in there mate, Kia Kaha!Kia ora. :) |
| Caligula02-09-07, 08:12 AM | ......and have made at least one good friend (who’s German incidentally). :rofl: |
| gamertall02-09-07, 02:00 PM | P, it bums me out to think that things are not going well there. I think Snakeheadfish33 may not like hearing this:P , but just put D&D away for a while. Get away from it. Take your daddy-daughter time and go see some NZ sites. I am also a father (of 4!) and my wife is at home most of the time, but when I am home she needs a break too. She has classes on the weekend which get her out of the house and among other adults; it really refreshes her. When I am watching the kids on Saturday, I try to go to a park let them run around, or take them grocery shopping; something to get us all out of the house. I also have had times where I can't play D&D. Just have to walk away from it at those times and try again later. It sucks, but it simplifies the life and eases up on the whole "social insanity" of the game. I bet you'll even find other players if you get out and about in NZ with your daughter.;) P.S. I loved the time when my kids were that little, and I do remember the sleepless nights (I sleep much lighter that my wife), but try to enjoy being awake with your daughter (late at night) as much as you can. |
| pukunui02-09-07, 02:26 PM | .....and have made at least one good friend (who’s German incidentally).:rofl:What's so funny about that? One of my wife's friends here in New Zealand is a German girl. I've got a sort of a friend who's Croatian. I had hoped to befriend some of my fellow expat Americans when I joined the American Club but most of them are significantly older, so it hasn't worked out the way I planned it. There are some younger people on the softball team, but I'm not actually playing, so I don't really interact with them much. The club is planning on starting up a new series of activities specifically for the younger folks, so that might help too. But again, I'm just not sure about making friends as an adult. It just seems much more difficult. I miss all my childhood friends (although I always have to remind myself that were I still in Philadelphia, it wouldn't be the same because a lot of them have moved elsewhere as well -- Boston, DC, Pittsburgh, California, Sweden ...) @GT - Yeah, I've been contemplating just walking away from it all for a while. Before last June, I hadn't played d&d for 5 years. I thought I would never play again. But when my siblings-in-law talked me back into it, my love of the game was rekindled in a big way. I've become rather obsessed with the game (not to mention addicted to these forums :P). I definitely need a break. What I might do is just leave it till after I've settled into my school schedule. Then I'll be able to see whether or not I even have time to play while I'm at school. As for the wee one, she's all good. I couldn't have asked for a more perfect daughter. She's such a beautiful, smart, clever, funny, happy little girl. She definitely lights up our lives. :D (It just isn't always that easy to remember those things when it's the middle of the night and she's screaming her head off because her mouth hurts or something ...) - J current mood: :cool: |
| Caligula02-09-07, 02:47 PM | Oh, it just sounded fun! It's probably my twisted sense of humor. ;) I hope it works out for you with D&D. I think you should try and keep going. That comes from my own experience of being in your shoes. :) |
| pukunui02-09-07, 02:50 PM | Well, I have been contacted by two people who say they're interested ... so I'm keeping my options open. But I probably won't actually do anything for another few weeks. |
| gamertall02-09-07, 11:34 PM | I did not remember that you had been away from D&D for 5 years when I wrote my post Pukunui. Sorry. Bad memory and all that. I hope that you do get a game going, but if you feel you are stressing out about it too much, then I recommend taking a break (albeit not 5 years). As you have more than likely experienced; stop looking for it and it will come to you.:D |
| pukunui02-10-07, 01:17 AM | I did not remember that you had been away from D&D for 5 years when I wrote my post Pukunui. Sorry. Bad memory and all that. I hope that you do get a game going, but if you feel you are stressing out about it too much, then I recommend taking a break (albeit not 5 years). As you have more than likely experienced; stop looking for it and it will come to you.:D No worries. No one's memory is perfect. I know mine ain't what it used to be. I feel like my brain's been slowly atrophying ever since I graduated from college four years ago. Good thing I'm going back to school then, I guess, eh? ;) Have I even mentioned that I was away from the game for 5 years before? |
| pukunui02-14-07, 11:42 PM | Just letting you know where I'm at: Tomorrow night, I'm going to be meeting with some guys who are interested in starting up a new gaming group. They're both older than me and have previous experience with the game (although one of them hasn't played v3.5 yet). There are only two of them, so we'll still need to find some more people to get a proper-sized group together, but it's a start. I've also ordered a copy of Unearthed Arcana and the adventures, Scourge of the Howling Horde and Barrow of the Forgotten King. I have to add, though, that I'm feeling rather disillusioned at the moment. The idea of sitting there playing at "make believe" with a bunch of other people just doesn't hold the same sense of excitement as it did even a few weeks ago. It just seems like too much effort. Hopefully if I can get a new group together and we gel, then I'll be able to rediscover my gamer's zeal. I think a lot of my disillusionment is due to the fact that my brother-in-law seems to have shut me out. He rents a room from us, so I see him on a daily basis. He is normally a very quiet person, but when we were playing d&d together, he opened up quite a bit and was quite enthusiastic about the game and would talk to me about it (and even other stuff) a lot. But now that we've split, he seems to have gone back to his old ways. He's decided to take up DMing because his sister is stopping for school, but he doesn't talk to me about it -- doesn't ask me for advice, tell me about the world he's building, or anything. In fact, he got a package delivered today. I suspected it contained a DMG and MM, but when I asked what he'd ordered, he just replied, "Books." When I asked if they were d&d books, he just said, "Yep." (I later discovered I was right -- although, sadly, he only got the original books, not the SE reprints with the errata included ... :nonono:) So anyway, I'm definitely feeling some ice there, and because he lives with us, I can't escape it. I think that's also partly why I've been feeling so homesick lately, too. I want to get away from my in-laws. I've screwed things up with them and I don't know if I even want to try to rebuild the bridges let alone know if they can be rebuilt. Sigh ... EDIT: Also, because I recently bought the full set of Star Trek movies at a hideously reduced price, the Trekker in me has been revived so I'm a bit distracted (only one hobby at a time, I guess! ;) :P) ... :hides: |
| Caligula02-15-07, 09:30 AM | If you have 2 players , you can easily get going, even if more players are preferable. I'm sure your brother-in-lwa feels hurt, but he will soon realize that you were honest in telling them how you felt and they should respect that. Give him some time, and then ask him if he would like to join your new group. Tell him you enjoy his company when you play and that you want to be friends with him. Honesty is always the best way to go, Pukunui! I have also ordered the module "Barrow of the Forgotten King" and I look forward to play this trilogy. I love trilogies! :) (is that the right word?:confused: ) |
| pukunui02-15-07, 01:29 PM | If you have 2 players , you can easily get going, even if more players are preferable.Yes, they could always play two PCs each, I suppose. But it's more fun with more people, I think ... I'm sure your brother-in-lwa feels hurt, but he will soon realize that you were honest in telling them how you felt and they should respect that. Give him some time, and then ask him if he would like to join your new group. Tell him you enjoy his company when you play and that you want to be friends with him. Honesty is always the best way to go, Pukunui!The word I was trying to think of before is "animosity". I have to say, though, that I am somewhat resentful and even jealous of him. Here I am, a married man with a child, and he's a carefree bachelor, able to spend his money how he pleases. It reminds me of my carefree days and causes almost daily temptations. It's very hard for me to have him live with us. I really want to just go up to him and say, "Dude, what's your problem?!" but I don't know if that would help. I've asked my wife to speak to him because she's better at that sort of thing than I am -- and anyway, they're blood relations so he might listen to her better than he does to me. I have also ordered the module "Barrow of the Forgotten King" and I look forward to play this trilogy. I love trilogies! :) (is that the right word?:confused: )Mmm, yes, "trilogies" is correct. I like trilogies too. Funnily enough, though, I tend to always like the middle part of any given trilogy best (e.g. my favorite Star Wars film is The Empire Strikes Back). I think that's because the middle part always tends to be the darkest part. |
| pukunui02-23-07, 05:01 AM | Hey, guess what, everybody! I've got a new gaming group! :cheer: I just met with two prospective gamers earlier this evening. They only live about 5 minutes away, which is handy. Neither of them is very familiar with the current edition of the game, so there'll be a bit of a learning curve to start with, but that's all right. I'm now a teacher-in-training, so here's an opportunity for me to get in some more teaching practice, right? ;) So we're going to get together again next Friday and do a character creation session, then we'll hopefully start playing for real the Friday after that. It'll just be the three of us to start with, so I'll have them both play two PCs each. They seemed fine with that idea. Hopefully we'll be able to find at least two more people to play with us eventually. The other neat thing is that both of them are also Christian, so we've got the same values and approach to the game (no desire to play "evil" characters and go out destroying the world instead of saving it, for instance). Assuming my copy of Scourge of the Howling Horde arrives on time, then we'll start with that, then hopefully move on to Barrow of the Forgotten King, and then on to Red Hand of Doom. Yay! I'm so excited! :cloud9: |
| snakeheadfish3302-23-07, 11:47 AM | That rules! It's nice you found some like minded folks to roll with. Good luck and congratulations. |
| Caligula02-23-07, 12:37 PM | Hey, guess what, everybody! I've got a new gaming group! :cheer: I just met with two prospective gamers earlier this evening. They only live about 5 minutes away, which is handy. Neither of them is very familiar with the current edition of the game, so there'll be a bit of a learning curve to start with, but that's all right. I'm now a teacher-in-training, so here's an opportunity for me to get in some more teaching practice, right? ;) So we're going to get together again next Friday and do a character creation session, then we'll hopefully start playing for real the Friday after that. It'll just be the three of us to start with, so I'll have them both play two PCs each. They seemed fine with that idea. Hopefully we'll be able to find at least two more people to play with us eventually. The other neat thing is that both of them are also Christian, so we've got the same values and approach to the game (no desire to play "evil" characters and go out destroying the world instead of saving it, for instance). Assuming my copy of Scourge of the Howling Horde arrives on time, then we'll start with that, then hopefully move on to Barrow of the Forgotten King, and then on to Red Hand of Doom. Yay! I'm so excited! :cloud9: Told you so! ;) Pukunui, "Barrow of the Forgotten King" dropped down in my mail yesterday. It's the first part of a trilogy. Don't you want to save it for the trilogy? Same with the "Scourge of the Howling Horde" - it's assumed to be a prequel to the "Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde". Is playing RHoD tempting you to break these plans? :) |
| pukunui02-23-07, 02:13 PM | Pukunui, "Barrow of the Forgotten King" dropped down in my mail yesterday. It's the first part of a trilogy. Don't you want to save it for the trilogy?Yeah, I know, but it shoehorns really well in between Scourge and RHoD (Barrow starts at 2nd level and should take the PCs to 5th level by the end of it). I'm also a bit disappointed that they've spread the release dates for the adventure trilogy so far apart. I think many groups will be finishing Barrow long before The Sinister Spire comes out ... Same with the "Scourge of the Howling Horde" - it's assumed to be a prequel to the "Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde".I know WotC has actually said that, but from what I've read on the boards, it doesn't actually make sense. Apparently Scourge and Shattered Gates are fairly similar. I think Scourge would work better as a prequel to the upcoming trilogy starting with Barrow - which is what I'm planning on doing! My only concern is how to tie in the baddies in Scourge with the Red Hand Horde. EDIT: Also, I may have found a third player ... |
| pukunui03-01-07, 12:56 AM | Just thought I'd give everyone an update. I've got two players who will definitely be playing. The other two guys with whom I've been communicating appear to have dropped off the radar, so it'll just be the three of us for now. That's ok. They can play two PCs each. They're currently thinking dragon shaman, cleric, ranger, and a mage of some sort. I think that will make for a good "outdoorsy" combination -- which is just what they'll want when they get to RHoD. We'll be starting at 1st level though ... assuming my copy of Scourge of the Howling Horde ever arrives! :P We're getting together tomorrow night for a "character creation" session. I think I might start a new thread since it's a new group. Cheers, Jonny p.s. I've decided to drop out of school. After attending my initial courses, I came to the realization that I'd actually have to want to teach teenagers in order to succeed. I think I was thinking of being a high school teacher for all the wrong reasons, so I've pulled out. I'm going get a new job instead. |
| eblis123403-01-07, 01:11 AM | Hey great news on the campaign! As noted its hard to find players in NZ. Sounds like you will have a good mix of PC's! Look forward to seeing the new thread. I am thinking of starting a thread from a players viewpoint when we start our new campaign. |
| pukunui03-01-07, 01:48 AM | As noted its hard to find players in NZ. Yeah, it's weird. Both one of my new players and I have noticed that on sites like boardgaming in aotearoa we get lots of views but no replies. :rolleyes: I'm also pretty pleased that my new players are both inexperienced with v3.5 and they have virtually nothing to do with these boards. That means they won't really be coming into the campaign with any preconceived notions about how the game should be run or anything like that. I'll also be able to exert some influence on their playing styles -- that is, I won't have to worry about anyone saying, "Well, my last DM let me do things this way" or "Well, when I DM, I do it this way, nyah nyah nyah". LOL. Anyway, they also don't have any sourcebooks other than the PHB and the PHB2, so that means I also don't need to worry about them wanting to use stuff from heaps of different books. They'll be keeping things pretty simple for their first lot of characters. Cheers, Jonny current mood: :cloud9: p.s. I think I'll call my new thread "Adventures In Elsir Vale". Keep an eye out for it. :D I'll also revive "Absolut Doom" when we eventually get to RHoD. |
| baron16203-01-07, 03:33 AM | I'm glad you got back on track and are feeling better! I wish you and your players best luck in buddying up and therefore increasing your game and Life experience together :) It's always hard in a foreign country when you don't have friends yet and fell lonely. I've been in other countries for longer times a couple of times and that is always the worst part. The only way out is to go out and meet people, then filter out the ones that get along with you and get to know them better, so exactly what you're doing :cheer: (and I'm selfishly looking forward to your recaps! :devil: ) |