Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stinky 01-09-05, 01:59 PM	I haven't played D&D since 1st Edition. Recently, my friends and I have re-kindled our interest in RPGs and would like to try D&D again. To make it easy on ourselves, we're thinking of using an existing campaign setting. Something already established so we don't have to create one from scratch. I've looked at Kingdoms of Kalamar, but all those human races look needlessly complex. I want a simple, generic, straight fantasy setting with no goofy gimmicks. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Zherog 01-09-05, 02:28 PM	Well, WotC has three (sort of). "Core" is (officially) set in Greyhawk. This means you don't need to buy any sort of campaign book - you can grab the three core books and start playing right away. The "problem" is there's little flavor attached to the default word - it's left to the DM to create that. It works very well for some people - for example, I have a Greyhawk game running, and it allows me to create NPCs as I need, do what suits my story,etc. I don't have to worry too much about working my story arc around the flavor of the world. Forgotten Realms is the oldest setting WotC currently supports. It's definitely a "high" magic setting, especially when compared to core. The world has a rich history - with all sorts of options tacked on with books such as Serpent Kingdoms, Shining South, Silver Marches, etc. eberron is the newest setting. It's full of interesting flavor, and there are very few high level NPCs running around. It's a "magic rich" setting, but not really a "high" magic setting. One of the concepts the world is designed around is, "Well, you have all these spells; how might they affect every day life?" I like all three settings - each has something different to offer. My recommendation for you and your friends is to stick with core for now. You can make it anything you want that way, setting up a series of adventures and use that to learn the game. Once you've gotten that far, then you can better decide if you want to stick with Greyhawk - and make it what you want - or go with FR or Eberron. Welcome back to the game! Hope you have fun! :)
Perry 01-09-05, 03:54 PM	Actually, I use Kalamar myself, and I immensely enjoy it and so do my players. The various human races that you speak of are basically humans just from different regions of the world, there is no difference game rule wise. The setting adds hobgoblins and half hobgoblins as playable races. Granted to take full advantage of the setting you need to purchase both the Campaign Setting and the Player's Guide. The CS has the flavor of the setting, while the Player's Guide has the rules for the setting: the god's domains, a few new classes and Prestige Classes. These two books were written for 3.0 so Kenzer and Co have updates on their website to bring them up to 3.5. Kalamar is a well thought out CS without the "gimicks" in my opinion. Having said that my second choice would be the Forgotten Realms, just for the sheer amonut of support it has received. I own a vast amount of material for both 1e/2e on the Realms so I have a lot of material to draw on. Both myself and my players enjoy this setting as well. With two excellent settings to choose from I opted for Kalamar simply because it was brand new to all of us. My group has been playing in the FR since the first grey box for 1e, so we needed a change of pace. Plus I don't have the odd argument with my players about material in the novels. Just my thoughts. Perry
Edymnion 01-09-05, 04:22 PM	Eberron. Eberron. Eberron? Eberron. No, seriously, I have yet to meet a SINGLE person that has actually read through the Eberron Campaign Setting that didn't become a total convert, or at least think it was an incredibly cool setting. The only people I see that complain about it use arguments that clearly show they don't know what they're talking about, and they only skimmed it to pick out things to use out of context. Plus, best part, the designer, Keith Baker, is a regular on the Eberron boards here on the site, and has an ongoing "Ask Keith" thread where, if you don't understand how part of the setting works, you can ask him directly and get it answered straight from the horse's mouth. It single handedly breathed new life into a game that was getting stale and repetative for me. I have not been so hyped about D&D since way back in the days I first started playing. Its been... what, 6 months now, and my love of this setting has only grown. Eberron is like Star Wars in an ocean of Gone with the Winds. Yes, that Gone with the Winds is a classic, and a good movie, but damn, this new one is fresh, new, exciting, but still keeping the core of good movie making at the heart that makes it an instant classic. Yes, I realize I just use a comparison that said Star Wars was new and fresh. I'm showing my age a bit. Young-ins, just accept that the original Star Wars trilogy was groundbreaking like crazy, and you missed out by not being able to see it in theaters when it was brand new. :) But really, every setting before Eberron really has just been clones of each other. Yeah, you've got Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and all of those. Also, if I were to drop you into any of those settings, not tell you the real names of people and places, you wouldn't be able to tell which setting you were in. Not Eberron. Its new, its fresh, its unique, and it isn't the thinly veiled Tolkien clone the other settings are. When you're in Eberron, you KNOW you're in Eberron.
Habronicus 01-09-05, 04:38 PM	Well, if you really want to take it easy, and simply get your feet wet again, a "nameless" setting could be a good choice. Throw a few random adventures at made-up places and don't worry about the world's politics, etc. That said, Greyhawk seems to be the next obvious step. As Zherog pointed out, the core rulebooks are all you really need, since they describe the deities of the world and some basic campaigning information. If you really want to flesh out the setting, you can access Greyhawk's old material which is available in PDF format for a small fee. There are also many Greyhawk based sites with miscelaneous info and maps from fans. As for all other settings out there, it depends on what you and your players are looking for.
Asciiman 01-09-05, 06:12 PM	Go with the Realms. For one simple reason. You said you didn't want to have to create a whole lot of backstory and history. Forgotten Realms has this in abundance, it is still supported so more will be added, and it has a bit of everything. Edymnion is right that Ebberron is new and original, but it doesn't have the history or vast amounts of material available to it. Not only that but it is easier to start out in a "thinly veiled Tolkien clone", simply because you are more familar with it. However, it really all comes down to what you will do with it in the end.
Yamo 01-09-05, 06:16 PM	I want a simple, generic, straight fantasy setting with no goofy gimmicks. That's the World of Greyhawk, the first official published D&D setting and still the best. It's official message board is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=353) and the main book for the setting is for sale here (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786917431/qid=1105312490/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-1556551-0195920?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). If you want more information on the world, check my detailed review of the setting book on RPG.Net. You can read it here (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10074.phtml). Here's a quote: As a GM, there's a lot I like about the World of Greyhawk. Firstly, it has a nice feel to it. While not truly "dark fantasy" like, say, Ravenloft or Midnight, Greyhawk has a very gritty, dangerous tone about it. True strongholds of good are few and far between and there's a real sense that the only reason evil hasn't overwhelmed the entire continent yet is because its various factions don't work together too well. To borrow an old cliche, there's a lot of "gray" in Greyhawk. The city of Rel Astra is ruled by a reanimated corpse and his advisor, a two-headed demon. The people don't seem to mind, though, because while technically "evil", he's also a damn fine mayor. Greyhawk is just the kind of world where evil guys sometimes make better landlords. Another good example is the Theocracy of the Pale, a nation run by clerics of the Lawful Good god Pholtus. Sounds like a nice place, right? Wrong. Turns out that Pholtus is a great guy...as long as you happen to believe that his way is the One True Way. Disagree and you'll be handed over to the Inquisition before you know it. Bad times. In fact, the Pale would be much more likely to unite with a band of Lawful Evil Hextorians to wipe out some Chaotic Good elves than vice-versa, as disorder and lack of respect for Law are much more offensive to their stern god than Evil. Overall, only the Planescape setting does a better job supporting the oft-neglected Law-Neutrality-Chaos axis of the D&D alignment system. All this adds up to a lot of potenial angles a good GM can work. A group with a hankering for a straightforward Tolkien-style "stop the Big Bad Evil Guy" campaign can be pitted against Iuz. One that wants more politics and less "Good versus Evil" can choose beween a number of good or neutral nations that go to war all the time over the very same religious, ethnic, nationalistic, or economic pretenses that abound in our own history. One that just wants to ignore the big picture altogether in favor of rooting around in dungeons is well-provided for, as well. Furthermore, Greyhawk has virtually no major NPC heroes in its canon. Most of the good NPCs described in the book are rulers. As politicians, they can't just grab a sword and march off to slay orcs. The closest thing the setting has to "iconic NPCs" are the various mages of the Circle of Eight, but they're far from do-gooders. In fact, thier philosophy of militant neutrality makes them just as likely to oppose a PC group as help one on its way. This is bound to appeal to gamers disillusioned with settings like Forgotten Realms where dozens of esablished crusading superhero NPCs can sometimes make PC heroes feel unneeded. Overall, the abundance of evil and lack of super-competent NPC adventurers combines to paint Greyhawk as a world badly in need of heroes, and not just any heroes, but your PCs. I dig that. Finally, Greyhawk has a comfy "lived-in" feel that any old D&D veteran can appreciate. Vecna hails from here, as do Mordenkainen, Tenser, and a host of other famous names from the dawn of fantasy roleplaying. Not to mention places like the Temple of Elemental Evil, the Tomb of Horrors, and the Barrier Peaks and legendry artifacts like the Rod of Seven Parts and the Orbs of Dragonkind. More than any other setting I can think of, Greyhawk has a profound sense of glorious history. Overall, I heartily recommend the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. Despite a few nagging problems like poor interior art, the lack of an index, and little attention paid to nonhuman gods, the world itself is a compelling and believable one with a great deal of flexability and character. If "vanilla" D&D is your idea of a good time, this oldie is still a goodie.
DM_Anubis 01-10-05, 03:09 PM	When you're in Planes you KNOW you're in Planes. If you changed the names of the places and people in Planescape you would know that your still playing planescape.Ok(Your in a city that has no sky, but when you look up you just see more city. The buildings roofs in this city end in points and there is sharp looking vine that grows on the sides of the buildings, the streets are full of all types of people,monsters,demons,and devils. Hmmm...what setting do you think im playing. Planescape is the most original D&D setting ever made...and if you dont get the setting just go to www.planewalker.com and they have everthing you need to know about the setting or just go to the wizards boards on the planes they have some good stuff their too.
CzarGarrett 01-10-05, 04:40 PM	For starting up again, I'd go Greyhawk. It is (IMO) the simplest of the campaign worlds. Once you get used to 3.5, then you can try out other settings and once you find one you like, stick with it.
Stinky 01-10-05, 07:05 PM	Wow! Thanks for all the information! Looks like I have some homework to do before I make any decisions. Now a couple related questions: The only in-print book I'm finding on Greyhawk is the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. I don't think I'm very interested in the RPGA. Is the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer still useful if I'm not an RPGA member? Are there other Greyhawk books out there that I'm missing? Thanks again!
Yamo 01-10-05, 08:41 PM	Is the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer still useful if I'm not an RPGA member? There's only two pages on RPGA stuff. The rest is a normal worldbook. I've never played in the RPGA, myself.
The Shaman 01-11-05, 01:19 AM	No, seriously, I have yet to meet a SINGLE person that has actually read through the Eberron Campaign Setting that didn't become a total convert, or at least think it was an incredibly cool setting. Hi, I'm The Shaman, it's a pleasure to meet you. Eberron isn't my cup of tea.
tackleberry 01-11-05, 10:39 AM	But really, every setting before Eberron really has just been clones of each other. Yeah, you've got Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and all of those. Also, if I were to drop you into any of those settings, not tell you the real names of people and places, you wouldn't be able to tell which setting you were in. Not Eberron. Its new, its fresh, its unique, and it isn't the thinly veiled Tolkien clone the other settings are. When you're in Eberron, you KNOW you're in Eberron. sorry my friend, i have to disagree with this statement as each world has enough uniqueness within it for the Dm to use - if the DM has skill and imagination, he can instantly bring out the aspects of that particular setting that makes it 'the realms' or 'Dragonlance' each setting has its own richness and colour that a skilled Dm needs to pick on! however, though i cannot comment on ebberon itself properly as my knowledge is limited to forums and wizards.com articles, my impressions are that ebberon utilises high magic concepts (floating towers, trains, machines etc) and brings them into the mainstream as 'staple'. (as a side note, to me this takes away a lot of the Dms duty to create locations as interesting. For me, this concept would not work as floating towers and trains should be kept (imo of course) "special".) your comment on 'tolkien' clones is warranted to a certain extent - the elves live in forests, the dwarves live in mountains, humans are common, halflings are short. but an imaginative DM should not require a book where all the legwork is already done to create fresh adventures and exciting locations. last time my players visited a floating tower, they gasped and wondered and this made it truly original. now in ebberon, there is a whole city full of them. back to the original thread however, imo fantasy is 50% tolkien - its what i and my players enjoy. if you want something different - ebberon appears the atidote - (in the same vein, if you want machine guns - d20 modern might work for you) its like wanting to play a scifi game and having no laser cannons or space ships. so what is important is what you want out of your gaming experience - something "elves in forests and dwarves in mountains" like Fr or GH? or something new and different like ebberon? the other option is to draw a country, a town and a dungeon. now you can either add A) a tavern and a dragon in a cave, or B) a couple of floating towers and a train station.
Kiirnodel 01-11-05, 11:07 AM	Edymnion is right that Ebberron is new and original, but it doesn't have the history or vast amounts of material available to it. Whoa!!! It's got tons of history, what are you talking about? You're correct about the lack of materials, but that's changing quickly. Though I love Eberron (You spelled it incorrectly Asciiman, but I won't hold it against you :P ) I don't think it applies to most players...some will like it but as you describe it, I think Greyhawk may be for the best... The Shaman: Did you read the book through its entirety? I hate people who make judgement calls about the book cover and rumors. If you did read it, and still don't like it, that's good...and to tell the truth I've met a few people that don't like it and have read it through. About all of the campaign settings being clones...similar..but far from clones...but I must admit that Eberron deviates from these a lot. I'd still have to say flavor and history wise they are all unique!
Lord_Anthrax 01-11-05, 11:51 AM	I suggest that at least at first you do Greyhawk. It's the core rules, all the baseline supplements are geared towards it, and you have more freedom to do what you like(there are many more rabid "No No NO YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG IT'S NOT LIKE THAT AAAAAAARRRRGGGHH KIIIIIILLLL!!!!!!!!" fans of the Realms than Greyhawk, you won't have to bean the aforesaid with a folding chair as often this way). There is a wealth of additional info available at sites like www.canonfire.com if you want to add more depth and detail. That said, I personally prefer my own kit-bashed work, but if I had to pick an "official" setting I'd go with the FR. Its scope and depth is legendary, and for all the "KILL DRIZZT/ELMINSTER!!!!!!!!" types, just don't involve these characters in the game. Despite legends to the contrary, it IS possible to play an entire campaign without involving any of the setting NPC's AT ALL. If nothing else, it's a wealth of ideas you might want to use in your own setting.
The Shaman 01-11-05, 01:07 PM	The Shaman: Did you read the book through its entirety? I hate people who make judgement calls about the book cover and rumors. If you did read it, and still don't like it, that's good...and to tell the truth I've met a few people that don't like it and have read it through. I haven't read it cover-to-cover, but I did spend some quality time with the campaign setting book at the FLGS and I just wasn't impressed. At no time did it 'hook' me.
Kiirnodel 01-11-05, 01:09 PM	I haven't read it cover-to-cover, but I did spend some quality time with the campaign setting book at the FLGS and I just wasn't impressed. At no time did it 'hook' me. Cool, thanks for attempting to look at it! :) Have a fun D&D without Ebberon. (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm very appreciative of your making an opinion after seeing it)
Perry 01-11-05, 09:00 PM	Considering my earlier post, Greyhawk would be the best setting, as you really dont need anything else other than hwat you already have. If you want to add flavor to the game then yes you are going to have to out and get some other books. How many depends on you and the setting you choose. As for Eberron, it wouldn't be my first choice but I am certainly not going to dissuade anyone from it. There is some interesting and fresh ideas in the setting, but on the other hand there is some things I am not really a fan of. Having said that, I have yet to thoroughly read the book Perry
Edymnion 01-11-05, 09:37 PM	my impressions are that ebberon utilises high magic concepts (floating towers, trains, machines etc) and brings them into the mainstream as 'staple'. (as a side note, to me this takes away a lot of the Dms duty to create locations as interesting. For me, this concept would not work as floating towers and trains should be kept (imo of course) "special".)Actually, Eberron is what I term "Wide Magic". It isn't high magic, as you can count the number of NPCs in the setting that can cast so much as a Fireball without having to take off your shoes. Its low magic, its just that the magic is everywhere. Low, and spread out, aka wide. :) Sharn does have floating towers, yes. Its also the most unique city in the setting, and is a thing of wonders to see. Same with the lightning rail, its more of a plot device than anything else.
Mark_Plemmons 01-12-05, 10:45 PM	Actually, I use Kalamar myself, and I immensely enjoy it and so do my players. The various human races that you speak of are basically humans just from different regions of the world, there is no difference game rule wise. The setting adds hobgoblins and half hobgoblins as playable races. Granted to take full advantage of the setting you need to purchase both the Campaign Setting and the Player's Guide. The CS has the flavor of the setting, while the Player's Guide has the rules for the setting: the god's domains, a few new classes and Prestige Classes. These two books were written for 3.0 so Kenzer and Co have updates on their website to bring them up to 3.5. Kalamar is a well thought out CS without the "gimicks" in my opinion. Having said that my second choice would be the Forgotten Realms, just for the sheer amonut of support it has received. I own a vast amount of material for both 1e/2e on the Realms so I have a lot of material to draw on. Both myself and my players enjoy this setting as well. With two excellent settings to choose from I opted for Kalamar simply because it was brand new to all of us. My group has been playing in the FR since the first grey box for 1e, so we needed a change of pace. Plus I don't have the odd argument with my players about material in the novels. Just my thoughts. Perry There's recently been a very good, long, informative thread on answering newbie questions about Kalamar here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=113241
Shurdus 01-13-05, 12:31 AM	Actually, Eberron is what I term "Wide Magic". It isn't high magic, as you can count the number of NPCs in the setting that can cast so much as a Fireball without having to take off your shoes. *snipperdy snap* That is by far the best expression I have heared in ages!
q'afuu 01-13-05, 03:45 AM	If you're still thinking about it, I'd like to point out that Midnight is an excellent setting to play in. The premisse is extremely straightforward: evil is winning (in fact, has pretty much triumphed) and the few remaining forces of good are fighting a desperate battle of resistance, hoping against hope. It doesn't come more heroic than that. Add in an alternate casting system that actually balances casters vs. non-casters reasonably well and it's by far my favourite.
The_Declaration 01-13-05, 09:50 AM	I recommend: The Black Company, at least if you like the books from Glenn Cook.
icote 01-14-05, 01:32 AM	But really, every setting before Eberron really has just been clones of each other. Yeah, you've got Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and all of those. Don't forget the goodies: Darksun, Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer... and they don't really suffer the same problem as you mention.
The_Declaration 01-14-05, 07:26 PM	But really, every setting before Eberron really has just been clones of each other. Yeah, you've got Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and all of those. Dragonlance is a clone of Forgotten Realms? :rofl: stop being high please!
Aricandor 01-15-05, 08:07 AM	Okay, time to toss in my two copper. First of all, welcome back :) Then for the settings. A generic/nameless setting with a few premade adventures is probably the best start, to get familiar with the rules and so. Then you could move on. We have a lot of praise for Eberron here I see, so maybe that is good, but I do not know. I've never played in it. I *have* "borrowed" a few things from it to my own campaign setting though... I'm personally fond of the Realms, even though I've never actually played in them PnP. That's another setting I've "borrowed" from. Too bad you're not into building worlds yourself though. That it often the best way to get things the way you like it... Lots of work though... If you like the Warcraft computer games that setting might be a good choice, but personally I think it is poorly converted. That one I have not borrowed from...