Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Invisig0th 02-04-07, 02:55 PM	<< SPOILER ALERT! -- very detailed plot discussion initiated...>> I'm getting ready to DM a 3.5E conversion of S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. I already have an excellent conversion for stats (as well as some obvious uses for d20 modern). I'm also well aware of the fact that this module is either loved or hated, and is definitely not for everyone. However, my group has been looking for a brief change of pace, and they are open to such things, so this sort of one-shot is exactly what we need. The characters will be retired after the adventure, so no worries about out-of-control game dynamics afterwards. So with regards to the module itself, I have everything I need to DM a 3.5 game for my group. HOWEVER, upon rereading the adventure now 20 years later, I realize that it is *really* showing its age, and is quite poorly plotted by today's standards. It is basically an unstructured dungeon crawl with one point of entry and one (rather abrupt) exit. There is really no climax to the adventure at all, no big baddies to overcome and no significant intermediate hurdles or goals. The only shred of plot progression involved is the searching for higher level access cards so that you can get to some of the areas you haven't been to -- and honestly, those areas aren't terribly impressive when you finally get there. So the basic idea is just to go room-to-room fighting monsters, and then repeatedly backtracking to doors keyed to higher level access cards until you've explored the whole darn place. Working forward from the premise that the general idea (very unique setting, items, and monsters) is interesting and solid, I'm looking to add a stronger narrative structure to move things along and keep things interesting. While some open ended exploration is OK, particularly at the beginning, I would like to give the players some clear clues as to how to move to the next phase of the adventure as they get further along. Some ideas that come to mind are: - The maps can be streamlined. Many of the more mundane and redundant areas can be removed entirely while still retaining the sense of mood that comes with exploring a ship (apparently) full of ancient corpses. - At the very least, the Doom-like search for higher level access cards should result in the players reaching more interesting and challenging areas as they get higher access levels. - One of the highest level access cards should lead to a battle with extremely strong opponent(s) so that the party is in a situation where they must pull out all the stops and unload their accumulated weaponry to the fullest - There is fertile ground for dungeon ecology and politics to play a role. Not all the monsters need be hostile, and the party will have access to language translation technology. The two default groups are the zoological specimens and the ship's androids and robots. The specimens basically attack on sight (currently). Intelligent races already provided include two tribes of vegepygmies and a mindflayer. Those or new ones could easily somehow interact with the players to achieve their own ends, either directly or deceptively. The androids and robots already respond with a wide range of reactions, but some could be taken further as very useful allies who could request the players' help with specific tasks and provide suitable rewards. - The premise is that the humans who piloted the zoological survey ship all died from a plague, and that angle is left unexplored. The fact that they died so suddenly can be used both to create a sense of immediate threat as well as provide a large mystery to solve. Perhaps the most powerful current inhabitants of the ship (presumably former specimens) somehow triggered the plague, or attacked the crew during the opportunity the plague provided? Or perhaps the assumption that the crew died of a plague isn't even correct -- perhaps something much worse happened? Once the players are "hooked" by indications that they too have contracted the plague, they would have strong motivation to find out the truth. - There could be survivors from among the crew, perhaps generations removed. After all, some of the ship's inhabitants (vegepygmies) still survive by stealth and by using the ship's functioning food dispensers. Maybe a few of the crew survived, slowly becoming more primitive and less sane... - I see no direct need for the race of beings who created the ship to necessarily be human. They could be alien as long as they use fairly typical sci-fi technology (i.e. not mindlflayers). Perhaps the non-human angle can lead to some strange puzzles for the PCs to solve as they progress and learn about this mysterious advanced race. - Not much is said about the creatures still in statis. Having a few rooms where powerful creatures are in suspended animation would create a creepy sense of danger -- and could possibly be leveraged as a creative way to wear down powerful opponents (by luring them into the statis room and reviving the suspended creatures). Those are just some obvious ideas off the top of my head, but the whole thing isn't "jelling" yet. I'm happy to add new encounters, but more important is some overarching plotline that actually leads to a climax and satisfying conclusion to the dungeon crawl. I'd like to hear any opinions on these ideas, or any other ideas anyone has. I really do think that taking this thing up a few notches will result in a better gaming experience. Thanks!
Stormonu 02-04-07, 07:14 PM	I'd definately go with the plague angle. Something that can kill an advanced race capable of interstellar travel has got to be very dangerous. It could be that magic has mutated the plague, giving it form or intelligence. Imagine the surprise on the characters face when they kill something and the plague animates it, for example. Perhaps a malignant spark of intelligence has formed in the computer core of the ship. It could be possessed by infernal powers, or magic has somehow sparked an intelligence. Think HAL from 2001, the movie Virus or the house in 13 ghosts. Some additional ideas for encounters: Ghosts of former crewmembers. Plague zombies. Warforged-like "cyborgs" created by the robots as a desperate attempt to save the crew when they discovered that magic works in the area they crashed. Any and all types of psionic creatures (psionics are always being accused of being "sci fi"). Most of all, the movie Alien comes to the fore of my mind when I remember S3. The ship would be the abandoned spacecraft, and upon entering, automatic systems seal the characters in (blast walls, coded entry, etc.) You could modify the webbirds to be like facehuggers, who attach to character and inject "eggs" into the PCs/NPCs (preferably, tag several NPCs with the party as fodder). Further, the vegepygmies of the original module spawn out the "eggs" - about 2-4 veg's per victim. Perhaps change the "plague" to be a misunderstood spawning of vegepygmies from ship victims, and they are crawling all around the ship. Then you've got a "horror movie" on your hands as the character try and rummage through the ship, finding code keys that will get them out while being hunted by vegepygmies (and certainly some advanced forms for a "final battle" - perhaps spawned from the captured Bulette?). Add in a couple complications - robots bent on roaming and eradicating everything they find, mutant psionic creatures (the mind flayer & intellect devourers come to mind) who have grown resistant to the vegie's attacks and want the ship for themselves, and perhaps an automated self-destruct activating when things start gearing up... and you will have a memorable adventure.
Invisig0th 02-05-07, 08:13 AM	Those are some excellent ideas -- thank you. You are absolutely correct to point out that the computer could be an enemy as well (yet another thing unexplored in the original). Or an ally, for that matter. It's a very obvious, ubiquitously present "NPC" that could be put to great use. And your point about psionics is dead on. There are few D&D modules were the presence of psionics makes more sense. I also very much like the countdown to self-destruct idea. That could really add some intensity to the end game. The similarity to "Alien" is interesting, but of course the original BP module had no "alien" to kill at the end. Perhaps that is the elusive boss monster that is stalking the PCs in the later levels? One the vegepygmies and even the mind flayer(s) fear? (At least I hope the mindflayers fear them....I think combining mindflayers with "alien" servants would be too cruel, even for my players!) There are even some stats online for the different kinds of Aliens. I do want to avoid making this too similar to the "Alien" movies, however. I'd like to keep the original feel of the adventure, regarding a collection of unrelated strange creatures collected from many worlds and forced to coexist. I just want to improve the flow and throw in a few surprises. One other idea that strikes me is that any intelligent opponents would be absolutely desperate to escape the ship after unknown decades or centuries imprisoned there. They probably had assumed they were floating in space (artificial gravity and no portholes). They have survived all this time, but only with the most minimal of sustenance. Their captors are dead, but they are still imprisoned and malnourished. Now, with the introduction of the PCs, they suddenly discover the existence of a bountiful abundant world just a few feet outside their prison walls -- a world ripe for feeding on. And they are hungry. The PCs are just the appetizer.
Invisig0th 02-05-07, 08:43 AM	Another puzzle idea or bottleneck to the next section of the ship could be electricity/power problems. In areas without power, the doors might not work. However, a sudden return of power could also trigger disabled robots and alert the natives to the meddling of outsiders. In other areas, electrical discharges could block further progress. The PCs could cut off the power, but that might make some doors and devices not work, and the power could also disable statis cages and release the creatures within. Lots of options here.
Clawhound 02-05-07, 02:52 PM	I've been playing at this myself. The ship itself is a nexus of special rift in the universe. The party is on a quest to heal the spacial rift. They find and take the Rod of Seven Parts and use the rod to heal the rift. All they need to do is go into the reactor room, open up the containment vessel, and replace the rods with the rod of seven parts. The inside needs to be completely redone, with both the layout being smaller more mappable, and the dungeon crawl less of a tedious crawl. There are some fun ideas here. I plan to use many psionic type monsters. Creatures can't be summoned inside the ship, nor can summoned creatures enter. Constructs for the robots. I really don't need a full storyline as the dungeon itself is the cumulation of a storyline.
Stormonu 02-05-07, 05:23 PM	Thanks for the comments. If you want something to make as a boss character, I'd strongly consider a plant, ooze, undead or construct (i.e., a robot). Most of them would be immune to the mind flayers, giving them a reason to possibly join with the PCs and a reason why they haven't taken over. Here's an interesting thought - the ship was like an Ark, collecting specimens from across the galaxy and after visiting all the inhabited planets they could muster, the scienctists aboard hit on somehow visiting alternate dimensions to collect specimens. However, they accidentally ripped open a portal to some hostile plane - Hell, Limbo, The Far Realm (heck, even Celestia could be hostile to spacefarers meddling where they should be). As a last ditch attempt to escape, they threw open another portal, thinking it would lead home. Instead, they crashed on the campaign world. The big boss character at the end is something that got yanked out of that hostile universe and is being contained in the most secure section of the ship. But the ship's power is finally failing, and when it does, the BBEG is going to be free to do as he pleases in the new world. This gives you an excellent playfield for many of the above suggestions - including areas of power outage/free-falling energy that have to be dealt with. This gives a reason for the self-destruct to activate - once the ship drops to a certain power level, it activates the self-destruct rather than release the BBEG. The characters have the choice of either hunting down and killing the BBEG, fixing the ship and finding some way to stabilize the power loss (perhaps with the assistance of the "Ancient ones" descended from the crashed crew) or finding a way to send the BBEG back home.
Invisig0th 02-12-07, 08:51 AM	So some of the ideas that seem to be sticking are: - Ship's computer as an NPC character - Nasty alien of some sort as the final boss. For sake of novelty, it won't be a standard D&D monster. Right now, my idea is to use a grendelspawn from d20 modern, which is basically a xenomorph from the Alien movies. Possibly several of them, occasionally scuttling away into the ventilation system or sniping at lone PCs as the adventure progresses (attacking and retreating, similar to Strahd in the original Ravenloft). - Some sort of countdown to self-destruct at the end. The general idea is that the ship has been crashed for some time. The specimens have escaped their cages, and those that survived the initial chaos have prospered. However, they are still imprisoned in the ship, and due to the walls not having portholes, they are completely unaware that they have landed on a planet at all. When the PCs arrive, they unknowingly reveal to the inhabitants (by their mere presence) that they can finally escape their prison. I'm still having difficulty with the ship faction interaction angle. It seems obvious that between the computer, robots and androids, the PCs will have some sort of allies that can help them reach the next part of the adventure (in exchange for services provided). However, the monsters as listed aren't terribly well suited for a complex society of different races with different goals. The vegepygmies are obvious candidates for cooperation with the PCs, but they are only minimally appealing as a faction. It would be a challenge to make them even as interesting as the kobolds in the Sunless Citadel. And "Alien"-type creatures would generally seem to fall into the nonintelligent category, being a basic huge-killing-machine type monster of animal intelligence. The mindflayer is obviously a factor as the only intelligent inhabitant, but mindflayers are so evil as to be difficult to imagine as an ally, and good-leaning charcters might reject the idea out of hand. Plus, it's inexplicable that the mindflayer hasn't made a power play. At the very least the intellect devourer should be working for him. (Of course, the vegepygmies have nothing to fear, being plants.) Perhaps I should replace him with another otherworldly psionic race that is less obviously evil? It's almost as if I need an entire faction between "barely intelligent plants and animals" and "hyperintelligent race bent on universal domination". A neutral, intelligent race that the mindflayer would have great difficulty turning into thralls. The bottom line is, the PCs certainly don't want to unleash any starving bad guys on their world. And the alien bad guys are obviously going to be interested in leaving the confines of the ship. Releasing some sort of benign group from the crazy prison they are in *would* be desirable. But that group would have to be created from scratch, and that would change the tone of the adventure a lot. Alternatively, I could just not worry about that in favor of the PCs mainly allying with the computer. But of course, the computer would make them jump through all sorts of hoops, depending on what the computer wants from them. And there should be some concern that the computer (now undoubtedly a little screwy due to various malfunctions) may in fact be to blame for the crew's demise, or could easily be leading the party to their destruction. That might be tricky to pull off, but it seems to have the greatest potential and the closest similarity with the original adventure. Another idea I had is a holodeck. Anything could happen there. Perhaps that's where the PC interact with the computer "in person"? It would also be amusing to have the PCs run through a simulation of a holographic game of the "swords and magic" variety, as crafted by the advanced society that built the ship.
Stormonu 02-12-07, 01:36 PM	The general idea is that the ship has been crashed for some time. The specimens have escaped their cages, and those that survived the initial chaos have prospered. However, they are still imprisoned in the ship, and due to the walls not having portholes, they are completely unaware that they have landed on a planet at all. When the PCs arrive, they unknowingly reveal to the inhabitants (by their mere presence) that they can finally escape their prison. You also have to work in the fact the ship crashed. While those inside may not be inside, the sudden stop when the ship landed probably resonated through the entire ship. It might be referred to as the "Great Shudder" or somesuch that broke open a lot of the containment/statis fields. An interesting take on the vegepygmies (requires a slight alteration of them). One of the biggest problems the inhabitants on the ship is going to encounter is getting food. You could pull an interesting symbiosis in that the vegepymgies literally are the main food source for the ship. You could either have the vegepymgies produce fruits that they give/sell to the various races (either they give willingly or sacrifice "offspring" to keep themselves alive). Perhaps they have a strong belief in reincarnation (like a perennial plant) and somewhat willingly allow themselves to be eaten (could provide an interesting encounter when to get the aid of the vegepygmies one of the characters has to kill and eat one of the tribe members...). I seem to recall a bulette being in the adventure. It'd be pretty cool I think to have a templated version BBEG of this thing running around as a sort of miniboss. Something that was being expermented on and got loose in the ship, mucking around in the machinery downstairs. Give it a dimension door ability to replace its lost burrowing ability and the pseudonatural template, and I think you'd have a pretty darn scary & unique creature. An interesting mind flayer angle - according to Lords of Madness, the illithid are an evolution (possibly of humanity) from the future, who have traveled to the past to ensure their own ascention. It could be that the illithid within the ship is the "first" of its kind to evolve from the ship's wreckage - once a former member of the ship's crew and now the only survivor. As a "new" species, the mind flayer isn't concerned about world domination, only ensuring that he survives and begins to reproduce (via cerphomorphis - capturing other beings and implanting them with illithid tadpoles). Unfortunately, none of the ship's current inhabitants make suitable subjects ... until the PCs happen along. In his mind, he's simply "upgrading" the PCs to the next evolution, whether they want it not ("those pesky barbarians don't know any better..."). If you want to, you could throw in other mind flayers who are seeking this "first" illithid to protect him. They aren't eager to start a fight (fearing it could lead to the first illithid's death), and something about the ship prevents them from easily entering, finding him and plane traveling away. Suggestions for creatures that might fit, with a slight variance in appearance/description: MM1 ---- Chuul Dinosaurs Dire Animals Iron Golem Shield Guardian Grick Grey Render Howler Otyugh Ravid Roper (disguised as metal instead of stone) as a sort of "security system" Shocker Lizards (who feed on/surround exposed power lines) Umber Hulk MM2 ---- Steel Predators Neogi (perhaps as the space-faring race, as they do come from Spelljammer) Automaton (Pulverizer & Hammerer) Avolakia Clockwork Horrors Felldrakes Brass Golem Grell Ormyrr Psurlon Spell Weaver Wyste Half-golems (cyborgs) MM3 ---- Astral Stalker (think Predator) Broodkeeper Changeling Dread Blossom Swarm (perhaps as minions of the vegepygmies) Feral Yowler Shadesteel Golem Ironclad Mauler Mindshredder Odopi Runehound Slaughterstone Eviscerator Stonesinger Thorn (allies or enemies of the vegepygmies, or replacements) Topiary Guardian (for the vegepygmies/thorns) Warforged (as androids)
Invisig0th 02-12-07, 02:01 PM	You are completely right about the crash. I guess I was focussing on the fact that the creatures who were released from stasis would not remember the crash itself. The ship will definitely be damaged in any number of ways from the impact, however. One of the biggest problems the inhabitants on the ship is going to encounter is getting food. Actually, that's addressed in the module -- the food replicators still work, and vegepygmies in particular will fight to the death to protect the kitchens by their territory. Kind of a "cargo cult". One unanswered questions is how the mind flayer (or flayers) has survived so long. Lords of Madness says that an illithid absolutely must eat one living brain from a suitably intelligent being per month to survive. There are no suitable brains on the ship at all. Just one more reason to look for a different miniboss. Another unanswered question is what sort of race was flying this ship? The general vibe is simply advanced humans, but exactly what sort of advanced humans go around the universe collecting specimens? Who in their right mind thinks that it's a smart idea to bring a *mind flayer* on board? Strictly speaking, it would be kidnapping/enslavement to capture the vegepygmies. Perhaps if I can sort out the motives of the crew, it will guide me to a more logical variety of specimens. Perhaps they were saving these creatures from extinction on their home planets or something? Some sort of disaster? Could be useful to the story. And (from the first post), it is not at all necessary for the crew to be humans. Any spacefaring race from scifi games, or for that matter Spelljammer races, would be possible candidates. However, just because of the cool visual aids, I do want to keep the technology as "hard sci-fi", so a mind flayer or beholder spelljamming ship is probably too far afield. Thanks very much for the listings. Some of the MM1 creatures do make an appearance in the original module, but using some from MM2 and MM3 would be an interesting way to update the module. I'm not terribly familiar with some of those, so I'll guess I'll be hitting the books. Thanks again!
Stormonu 02-12-07, 02:54 PM	Any spacefaring race from scifi games, or for that matter Spelljammer races, would be possible candidates. However, just because of the cool visual aids, I do want to keep the technology as "hard sci-fi", so a mind flayer or beholder spelljamming ship is probably too far afield. Sorry, wasn't try to suggest that you change it to a crashed spelljamming ship, but I just thought that using spelljamming races might fit, as they are already starfarers (and neogi would make for an interesting alien species). Also, thinking along that lines, that makes several of the old Star Frontier races great canidates to haul back into the module. Like Yazarians (Hadozee from Stormwrack), Drasalite (I forget their spelljammer name, basically intelligent oozes), Vrusk (again, I forget the spelljamming name, Thrikreen should work pretty well) and Sathar (Psurlons would make good Sathar). You also have the alternity aliens - Mechanus (again, warforged ought to cover them fairly well), the lizard guys (Ts - something), Fraal (greys), the ogre-looking race and creatures from the night planet (loved those guys, but can't remember the names!) . Its kind of odd now that I think about it that they didn't mention greys in S3. Also, forgot to touch on it eariler, but I wanted to mention the holodeck idea. Personally, I wouldn't use it - it could too easily backfire and the characters end up spending hours upon hours in the holodeck goofing off, and if they get a hold of the ship's library or a way to program their own scenarios, you could quickly loose focus on the adventure's original intent. I do think that a "holograph library" containing some clues and bits of information would be helpful - as well as a means to interact with the computer via hologram, but I'd be more inclined to make the holograms like those you see in the Star Wars movies, where they're rather obvious fakes and for informational use. By the way, if you can get your hands on information or a copy of Metamorphasis Alpha, I think that would help tremendously with what your are doing. Metamorphisis Alpha is essentially S3 back in space before the crash - a space ark/colony ship that got knocked off course/damaged, and the characters are awakened crew who have to travel through the arcologies to figure out what's gone wrong.
Invisig0th 02-12-07, 04:39 PM	Now that's a good idea -- my roommate has a copy of MA, and I've never read it. Might be just what I'm looking for. I'll have to brush up on those other races as well. You're absolutely right that all those races could fit well. The similarity to spelljammer can be a source for good ideas too, even if I want to take it in the other direction. Yes, it is strange that S3 describes a human crew. It says in the intro Gygax purposely tied it in to the launch/relaunch of MA/GW, and it was a tournament module originally, so that must be why. (I did read GW way back when, but I didn't know that MA was so similar.) However, there's no reason at all not to use greys in my adventure. Of course, since they're all dead, it's just a plot device to make things seem more alien. The holodeck won't be a problem. It's easy to limit what it can and cannot do, and if necessary impose a time limit before power levels are too low to sustain any sizable illusions. Either way, the computer could still interact with the players using the minimalist approach you described. It might not even be obvious at first that this is the computer they are talking to. If nothing else, when the party first enters the holodeck, they could get one heck of a surprise!
Invisig0th 02-13-07, 08:28 AM	Well, MA does indeed contain some interesting ideas. If nothing else, the idea of physical and mental mutations due to the radiation on the ship really wasn't explored in the original S3. It just focussed on the physical damage to PCs in high-radiation areas. But ambient radiation would cause havoc with the inhabitants of the ship in the long term. So if I used a familiar creature from the MM, like stirges for example, it would also make sense to introduce a random mutation -- just to keep things interesting. Making sure that "familiar" monsters are not guaranteed to be exactly the same as the MM entry will ensure that the players remain on their toes. Carrying that theme further, any descendants of crew survivors could be primitive and severely mutated. Psionics seems like a logical fit here, perhaps to offset physical limitations. These mutants could be potential allies for the PCs. They could also turn out to be the ultimate enemy, violently protecting their ship due to a twisted sense of carrying out the "duty" of their forefathers. As long as their actions are explicitly evil, that would make for an interesting twist against intelligent enemies with complete knowledge of the ship and its various inhabitants. (I kind of like the idea of the PCs having to finish off what the plague started, and perhaps learning about how and why the plague happened in the process.) Going back a few posts, the idea that the crew is human (or very close) does have one big advantage -- the ship computer may mistake the human(oid) PCs as "crew" if they are similar enough in physical makeup. The mutants on board might be too far gone for the computer to classify them as "crew" and not "specimens". Alternatively, the computer could be cooperating with the original crew, and might decide that the PCs are a threat to the "crew". The computer may wish to further the goals of the crew, and perhaps even its own goals as well. While the PCs may think that the computer is assisting them, it may in fact just be placing them in danger after danger -- weakening them before an ultimate showdown with the mutants. The only problem with the computer being hostile to the PCs is that, logically speaking, it could at any time trap them in a section of the ship permanently by overriding a few doors. So there needs to be a logical reason why the computer either choses or is forced to allow the party to proceed through the stages of the adventure towards the final climactic showdown. This may be linked to the computer and crew's original mission somehow -- as in, what were they *doing* with all these 'specimens' in the first place? They obviously collected them from various worlds, but what where they intending to do after that?
The Livewire 02-13-07, 08:52 AM	Hmm, Ok here's a McGuffin for the Mindflayer. Deep in the hold is a stasis pod. Inside the pod is a mindflayer grappling a crewman. The crew pushed them both into a stasis pod to buy time. Either a quake, or a power failure, or a robot trying to question a superior lets it out. Dietary problem solved. also the stasis pod idea allows for new PCs to be introduced "Hey, someone order a Dwarf Fighter with extra plate armor?" If you want a surviving crewman, an Elan is a good idea. Since they don't die of old age, and can use repletion, a reformatted elan in a locked room will live as long as the air holds out. Because he's been Elanned (is that a verb?) you could have him give vauge information w/o him having 27 ranks in 'repair funky technology' If you have complete psi, an erudite would be a good new class for him, else an expert, or a factorum from Dungeonscape. It could be a fun subplot. Protect the 1st level Erudite from everything onboard....
Invisig0th 02-13-07, 09:41 AM	Heh, you're absolutely right -- the status pod approach solves both the "no brains" problem as well as the "why hasn't it taken over the ship?" problem. In the intro to the Barrier Peaks module, it says the entrance the players use has been unearthed by a recent quake. That same quake could have released that darn mindflayer... and it would be awfully hungry by the time the PCs arrive (perhaps weeks later). As long as the MF does not have access to any potential onboard surviving humans, this idea works perfectly. And it meshes well with my idea of "gates" using certain keys. The MF simply hasn't found the access card to the other levels yet. As far as psionics goes, there is no need to bring in a psionics race. The idea is that any surviving humans were mutated over time and over generations by leaking radiation So for my purposes here, any psionic powers are easily explained, and could just be added to the original "crew" race as needed. And since the original module says that the food replicators on the ship still work, there is no need to go to great lengths to explain how they survived. (The only creature who wouldn't have adequate nourishment needed to survive would be the mind flayer.) Thanks very much for your ideas. Very helpful!
Stormonu 02-13-07, 10:57 PM	Hey, I just had to share this - I collect these modules and I just got it in the mail today. http://www.amazon.com/Dungeon-Crawl-Classics-36-Talons/dp/0977960234/sr=8-1/qid=1171425297/ref=sr_1_1/103-3609667-5502255?ie=UTF8&s=books Yeah, that's a white dragon with frickin' laser beams... And there's always the Dragonstar campaign :D
Invisig0th 02-25-07, 04:51 PM	After kicking around ideas and scouring Metamorphosis Alpha for angles, I think I've finally got a basic level plan in mind. The players would enter the 7th level (bottom) and make their way to the 1st level (top), so you kind of have to read them backwards to see the progression of the adventure. Level 1. Bridge - Boss fight. Possible countdown to self destruct. Level 2. Officers quarters Level 3. Stasis - No creatures except for several powerful aliens / xenomorphs / grendelspawn. PCs could weaken these powerful creatures by releasing other creatures still in stasis. Level 4. Garden habitat - escaped stasis creatures and plants. Level 5. Recreation and Observatory - Androids and escaped stasis creatures. Dangerous fitness androids. Holodeck, possibly including interaction with main computer "personality". Marine observatory allowing underwater view of lake from level 4 (may only be accessible from level 4) Level 6. Crew quarters and Medical - Robots, androids, and escaped stasis creatures. First clues about plague. Littered with desiccated corpses. Level 7. Cargo holds - Basic supplies monitored by a small number of robots and security turrets. Area by entrance used by PCs deserted and littered with desiccated corpses. The general idea is that, where practical, obtaining a correctly colored key card will be necessary to move to the level above. Where that doesn't make sense, specific monsters or environment barriers will have to be overcome. (ex: a door that is electrified due to a malfunction, which can be opened if the correct override switch is activated.) Familiar D&D creatures will often be replaced with less familiar ones. And when familiar ones do appear, strange mutations or psionics will be added to spice things up. I still need to flesh out what is in the top levels. Part of that will involve exploring factions. I like the idea of a small tribe of primitive crew descendants living on one level. They could require the party to help them in order to gain access to the next level. And they could tell the party superstitious fables about the "big boss" as foreshadowing. The boss at the end still eludes me. I don't like the standard mindflayer. What keeps coming to mind is something more alien and less predictable. The image of something kind of like an ultroloth with psionics keeps coming to mind. I'd be interested in any ideas as to how to mix up the combat. Robots, for example, wouldn't necessarily attack on sight. However, both the hostile creatures in the garden level and the aliens on level 3 would attack on sight, your basic hostile animal intelligence. I want to keep things interesting and varied, as much as I can. Also, I can't quite nail down the role of the ship's computer. does it want to help or harm the party? Does the computer retain allegiance to the descendants of the crew? Or does it have other motives? It seems to me that an insane computer isn't very fun, as it is unpredictable. If the computer had detailed, discoverable, and consistent motives, that might be more rewarding for the players to figure out. Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks very much for reading!
Invisig0th 02-27-07, 02:26 PM	For anyone interested, I also found an article in Dragon 280 called "Invaders of the Barrier Peaks". That articles speculates about another part of the ship that crashed, and the radioactive monsters aboard.
Invisig0th 02-27-07, 05:22 PM	On a related note, can anyone point me to a reference source to help me flesh out the way that various factions might interact in this type of dungeon? Do any of the WOTC books really explore this in detail? What I'm dealing with here is basically a very compartmentalized "prison" where some of the inmates have escaped their cells, but are still sharing the various isolated floors they found themselves on. Does anyone know of any examples of this weird sort of "prison ecosystem" in any published materials?
Invisig0th 03-03-07, 07:30 AM	<bump>
mearrin69 03-03-07, 12:32 PM	On a related note, can anyone point me to a reference source to help me flesh out the way that various factions might interact in this type of dungeon? Do any of the WOTC books really explore this in detail? What I'm dealing with here is basically a very compartmentalized "prison" where some of the inmates have escaped their cells, but are still sharing the various isolated floors they found themselves on. Does anyone know of any examples of this weird sort of "prison ecosystem" in any published materials? If you have Dungeon Magazine I think there are a couple of adventures that deal with this sort of 'standoff' situation. Greymalkin Academy, in a recent issue, is similar (but not quite the same in that the parties are all fairly recently arrived) but I seem to remember another one a while back. Also, on a larger scale, just about anything dealing with the Underdark sort of deals with this - so maybe look at these for ideas on how factions cooperate/fight in an area with limited space/resources. If you have Alternity there was a planet detailed in Star*Drive where prisoners overthrew the authorities and had set up a 'sort of' working system. Forget the planet name. Star might have been Tendril though. Hope that helps. I'm glad you started this thread though. I am thinking of trying to do Barrier Peaks in the near future. I was going to expand the garden level out a bit though (like in Starship, from which Metamorphosis Alpha/Barrier Peaks takes much inspiration) with the hydroponics having run amok across most of the ship. There would be some factions here as well: different vegepygmy tribes, and some others (not illithids I think) on ship and the added interest of Emerald Claw agents (it's in Eberron) and the PCs as inserted seekers of high tech for House Cannith. Still working on the basic ideas however. I totally agree that the original was 100% dungeon crawl - not much story to speak of. That's what I'd like to add and I think the faction concept will be a big part of that. Maybe there'll be a bigger mystery too. M
Invisig0th 03-09-07, 08:46 AM	In my own revision, the added levels represent more of a "whole ship" as opposed to the cylindrical subsection of the original module. Conveniently, that does allow the central levels to be larger, if you assume a saucerlike shape -- and it just so happens that the garden level would be the biggest one the way I've laid it out. I found an interview with Eric Mona online (http://www.silven.com/resources/Default.asp?case=show&id=363) where he mentions kicking around the idea of a Dungeon module revisiting the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks not too long ago. He said the module would have been bigger than a Dungeon issue. Man, I'd love to know what sort of improvements those guys were kicking around, because that's exactly what I'm looking for here! Obviously, the fact that S3 was a directionless crawl would have been one problem they had to address.
mearrin69 03-09-07, 01:04 PM	Heh, I was hoping you hadn't dropped this thread. I went back and reread Aldiss' Starship - it's amazing how much the Barrier Peaks authors 'borrowed' from that book - and it emphasized my desire to bring the garden level out into the ships corridors with various tribes of vegepygmies in contention for the overgrown territory. The book's 'Forewards' culture and the caretakers have also, I think, inspired me a bit for my plotline. If you haven't read that book you should check it out. M
Invisig0th 03-09-07, 01:53 PM	Excellent idea. Ideas about religions and cultures in the "generational ship" context are definitely fertile ground for fleshing this out more. Your suggestion also clued me in to the fact that there are a handful of other "generational ship" SF novels that could be very useful sources for ideas. Thanks!
mearrin69 03-09-07, 03:34 PM	Yeah, there are a couple. Might also want to check out The Jesus Incident, The Lazarus Effect, and whatever that other one was from Frank Herbert. Similar thing except the ship ends up 'being god'. Might be a cool road to take with this - SHIP is just trying to help the survivors get along with whatever they've got left (and woe to any outsiders that try to rock the boat). The new Gamma World actually has some stuff that might apply here. M
Invisig0th 03-14-07, 11:35 AM	What thing in Gamma World d20 were you thinking about, specifically? I skimmed the main books yesterday and didn't see anything obvious.
Deekin 03-14-07, 02:09 PM	The boss at the end still eludes me. I don't like the standard mindflayer. What keeps coming to mind is something more alien and less predictable. The image of something kind of like an ultroloth with psionics keeps coming to mind. d20 Menance Manual+ XPH. Phrenric Star Doppelganger Also, I can't quite nail down the role of the ship's computer. does it want to help or harm the party? Does the computer retain allegiance to the descendants of the crew? Or does it have other motives? It seems to me that an insane computer isn't very fun, as it is unpredictable. If the computer had detailed, discoverable, and consistent motives, that might be more rewarding for the players to figure out. Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks very much for reading! How about a bi-polo computer, that flips from wanting to help the party to wanting to kill them. Then have them be able to somehow fix the computer, which will then help them.
Invisig0th 03-14-07, 02:58 PM	Phrenric Star Doppelganger - now that is a VERY interesting combo. Thanks! As far as the computer goes, my current preliminary plan is to just say it simply has no long term memory when it comes to the PCs. So when the PCs interact with it at various terminals around the ship, the computer greets them as if it meeting them for the first time. Depending on the access cards they hold at that moment, it will treat them differently. The computer will assume (despite all evidence to the contrary) that the PCs are crew members in each case, and will accordingly be completely unhelpful regarding any requests seen to be above the PC's current security level (with just a hint of Paranoia). Once they have an officer/captain-level access card, things get *much* easier and much more information is available to fill the backstory. It should be a great way to use one single device to expand on the story incrementally the further the PCs get into the module. There are plenty of other lethal hazards on the ship, and in some cases a stubborn computer will make things worse. I'm probably going to have some primitive descendants of the ship survivors (who were small children when the plague struck) holed up in the "officers quarters" deck. Sort of a gloomy "cargo cult" centered around food replicators and horrific legends about the plague and the monsters elsewhere on the ship. The computer doesn't have direct contact with these survivors, but will turn hostile to PCs if the PCs attack them, as it stil considers them to be its "crew". One basic change I made the original module is that the security access cards work on proximity. Doors, robots, androids and the main computer can detect which cards you possess automatically. So security doors automatically open as you approach them, like the automatic doors at grocery stores, provided a person standing at the door has the appropriate level card. I figure that sort of thing just makes sense for the crew. The original module had players holding out cards so that robots could see them, and sliding cards into potentially hundreds of door slots. It goes to show how much everyday technology has changed since 1980. Any other suggestions as to how to modern-ify the futuristic technology of the original module to make it seem less dated would be helpful as well!
Temmogen 03-14-07, 05:08 PM	Somethings to think about, if you havent already... Maybe a Pseudonatural Mind Flayer? Alternate food source A Mind Flayer Lich? No need for food, and he now knows lots more about the ship. Maybe the Veggies are the result of the plague, there is a template in one of the FR books, something dealing with a plant template (cant remember exactly). There is the possiblilty of a Night of the Living Dead scenario, the Plague turns crew members, and some of the other creatures into some form of undead. This will keep the Mind Flayer contained, because Flayers hate undead, and are terrified of same. Take the Flayer evolution angle, however use the plot from the movie "Event Horizon" then release demonic or abyssal creatures on your PC's. One thing I remembered was an old GW monster from Dragon magazine, a NitroDijinn. Sort of a four armed human torso attached to a snake-like body that was physically attached to a fusion reactor, if they kill it, it could trigger the self destruct. Pm me if you want the stats, I can email it to you.
Invisig0th 03-14-07, 05:47 PM	I still think mind flayers are just too commonly encountered for my purposes. I'm sure players back in 1980 hadn't seen one before, but the darn things are everywhere now. To keep the original intent of the module, I need monsters that players won't expect. There need to be some "what the HECK is that?" moments. I'll definitely look at the plant template, and the NitroDjinn. Thanks very much!
Temmogen 03-14-07, 06:27 PM	How about Slaad? How about some form of intelligent Psionic ooze? Oooooooo How about Yuan Ti? That could be the result of the plague, it turns people into some form of Yuan Ti...Then the ending BBEG could be one of the Big Yuan Ti abomination things, I dont remember exactly what it was called.
mearrin69 03-14-07, 07:17 PM	What thing in Gamma World d20 were you thinking about, specifically? I skimmed the main books yesterday and didn't see anything obvious. Hmmm. I think it's in the GM guide, where it's talking about story building or some such. Talks about the isolated city/bunker thingie run by an AI and how you might pitch it to create different moods (i.e. horror, etc.) Also, the valley of misfit toys is a similar situation (I think it might be called Valley of the Dolls). Sorry, my recollection of those books is minimal to best...just some of the ideas. M
Voran 03-14-07, 08:25 PM	I still think mind flayers are just too commonly encountered for my purposes. I'm sure players back in 1980 hadn't seen one before, but the darn things are everywhere now. To keep the original intent of the module, I need monsters that players won't expect. There need to be some "what the HECK is that?" moments. I'll definitely look at the plant template, and the NitroDjinn. Thanks very much! I suppose you could do a Mind Flayer with tentacles that come out...from somewhere else lower on the body. I mean that would satisfy several genres right there.
Invisig0th 04-07-07, 10:03 AM	OK, I think I have a basic skeleton for a revised storyline that preserves the cool aspects of the original tournament crawl while adding some story flow. Thanks very much for all the suggestions. The decks are the same as I listed above. Decks 7, 6, 5, and 4 basically follow the module. The garden level includes some encounters from the "upper walkway" level of the original module (OM). The lounge from the OM has been moved to the rec level. The security officer quarters and captain quarters from OM level 1 have been moved to the officer's quarters. "Computer central" (OM LVL 1) has been moved to the bridge level. Decks 3, 2 and 1 are mostly new. Level 7 - Cargo holds: The exit elevator is blocked by a radioactive area guarded by a nyth (FR MOF). Level 6 - Quarters and medical: Follows the OM closely, with the exceptions above. Medical area contains introductory info on the plague and the insanity it induced prior to death. PC will be concerned that they have been infected. Level 5 - Recreation and marine observatory: Follows the module closely. Central area is the marine observatory/aquarium looking out onto the bottom of the lake from the level above, but the doors to that room will not open initially. In the holodeck, players will experience some sort of odd entertainment simulation. The main computer will intervene afterwards, in the form of a holographic avatar. The computer will beg the PCs to rescue "the children" on deck 2, who are "enslaved". It will also warn about a small group of creatures that kill anything that enters level 3. Then the main computer will open the doors to the marine observatory and break off communication. The PCs must enter the marine observatory, get underwater gear, enter the water through a decompression chamber, and ascend to level 4 Gardens. Armor must be removed and stored. In the water is a dangerous creature (frogemoth miniboss?), and the PCs will be at a distinct disadvantage in underwater gear. Level 4 - Garden: This follows the OM closely. Lots of hostile flora and fauna. Level 3 - Stasis: this level appears dark and deserted, a striking difference from the teeming life of the garden level. This deck was where hundreds of creatures were stored in stasis during the exploration mission. Some creatures still remain in stasis, but most stasis cages are now empty. The only creatures actually roaming the level are several *extremely* powerful alien xenomorphs. These creatures are extremely resistant and quite powerful killing machines. A head-on attack, even with futuristic weapons, is not a good idea. The players have two possible advantages. One is to release some remaining stasis creatures to wear down the xenomorphs. Another is to use a power loader/exosuit located near the exit from the level to beat the heck out of the xenos. This level is dark, full of bones and debris, and full of random noises. The xenos use stealth and camouflage to full advantage. Horror turned up to 11 as a miniboss encounter. Exosuit is way too large to leave this deck. Level 2 - Officers' quarters: Populated by descendents of the children who survived the plague. A primitive culture was established here, but not long ago they were mentally enslaved by the Big Bad Boss as thralls. PCs will be aware of this, even if the computer must repeat it over and over on the PA system. PCs will have access to paralysis/needler weaponry, so non-lethal takedown of the thralls will be an option. However, they are equipped with high tech weaponry, and they know how to use it thanks to the BBB's influence. Basically, this will be room-to-room fighting, with the added angle of the computer's insistence on nonlethal combat. Survivors are confined to the corridors and minimal medical/kitchen areas of the level, due to having no proper access cards. PCs with proper access cards can obtain the very best in high-tech weaponry from senior officer's private caches. Level 1 - Bridge. BBB is here -- highly psionic, highly malevolent. Similar in appearance to an Ultroloth. Will use extensive offensive and defensive combat-oriented psionics to largely negate magic/mundane weapons, and has high resistance to high tech weaponry due to a personal shield device. BBB will not attempt charm/domination/etc. This is all about combat. Basically, this is an all-out brawl in which the PCs should exhaust most of their new toys. Main computer can perhaps assist PCs if "children" were not killed. BBB will initiate self-destruct sequence at start of combat, and main computer is unable to intervene (except for instructing PCs as to how to disarm it afterwards). After BBB is defeated, PCs can interact with the main computer and crew survivors, wrapping up loose ends. PCs can exit the ship here through an airlock. Ship will automatically launch and return to homeworld once PCs are a safe distance away. Any and all suggestions about all this are most welcome. Any thoughts about pacing, plot flow, alternate ideas for encounters, etc.? Thanks for reading!
Invisig0th 04-16-07, 05:14 PM	The above post reminds me of another good question -- are there any monsters for particular settings (FR, Eberron, etc.) or from some of the more obscure monster tomes that would provide alternatives to the standard MM creatures in the original module? At this late date, there is no point in using standard creatures like ropers, trappers and dopplegangers. They may have been novel when the module came out, but now they are like old friends. Definitely not "alien" at all. I have lots of ideas for totally new creatures, but what I am looking for here are creatures that may at first appear at first to be familiar D&D creatures, but which end up being quite different. In fact, the more shockingly different, the better. I need some "We're not in Kansas anymore" moments. A good example of this is the FR nyth I mentioned earlier, which I'm obviously using instead of a will-o-wisp. Players will (of course) assume it is a will-o-wisp. Only after they realize that this assumption is false will they alter their tactics. Basically, I want any presumptions about monsters to end up being false, because the entire idea of the module is that the opponents are "alien", in every sense of the word. Even experienced players should feel like they can't make any assumptions, and novel spins on familiar creatures will be a good way to bring that idea home. Of course, I could simply roll on some tables for random attributes, ending up with things like ropers that throw thorns like porcupines or spit acid or something. But the sheer blind randomness of that is immediately apparent. I'd rather use alternate creatures with have been thought out and have some existing internal logic as to their special qualities. I'm sure they exist, I just can't think of any others. Can anyone suggest some existing creatures that provide this sort of twist on the usual MM entries and also fit in well with the sci-fi setting? Thanks much!
The Livewire 04-16-07, 07:42 PM	There was an article in dungeon I think that mentioned revamping descriptions. One example was something like a flying insect that was naturally invisible, shot sleeping darts from its stinger, could exude a pheremone that allowed it to animate plants to ensnare opponents and had a psionic scream that could confuse a target. use the stats of a pixie :-)
yellowdingo 04-17-07, 10:40 AM	7. The MEGABRAIN 300 occupies a Village "Wow! what wizard did you say made this nifty crossbow that shoots half a mile?" The saleman smiled and took the Adventurer's Money leaving the Warrior to stare down its spyglass scope. "I Didn't." DM Briefing: Two robots carry a Brain in a Jar into a distant village and subjugate the locals. Within months they have built a steam powered generator and are electricly separating and smelting metals to produce the highest quality weapons.
Stormonu 04-17-07, 04:35 PM	An idea on the computer thing... You mentioned you wanted to incorporate factions into the survivors of the ship - I think that should include the computer as well. Imagine this scenario: Each level of the ship is equipped with its own mainframe controller. Each mainframe controls the functions and robots on each of the various levels. These mainframe controllers are likewise hooked to the central mainframe on the bridge. When the ship crashed, the link to the central computer was lost. Each of the mainframes on the different levels began to develop their own personalties and sense of "self" as time went on. Occassionally, the computers would interact with one another via lesser links or through the automated systems. As power began to become scarce, and as the individual personalities of each mainframe began to grow, some of the computer systems began to compete against one another. Perhaps one computer attempted to restore order by initiating a "master" link over the others, just to find the others uniting to terminate the link and/or send robots to stop the tyrant. Perhaps computer A has come to believe that computer B's functions are superfluous to the operation of the ship, and it has attempted to shut down or divert power from B's system's to its own - becoming very paranoid/poower-hungry along the way. As the characters move through the ship, they can face certain computers asking for the character's assistance to perform functions or deeds they can no longer access due to ship damage. They may also face hostile computers who wish to control or destroy the PCs to secure their own grip on the areas they have controlled. Perhaps there are also damaged or shut-down computers the PCs can help or hinder within the ship. As for monsters, I think your best bet is to take some of the common monsters and twist them - making the changes obvious and in-line with their surroundings. I mean, what's the difference between a creature they've never seen before and a creature they know that acts differently? I mean, if the characters encounter a Bexilzuz (some new, exotic creature you've thought up) or a purple-troll-like creature that shoots lasers from its eyes and explodes into a sticky goo at death, are the characters going to know which was pulled out of an obscure MM entry and which was a unique make-off a MM monster? They both have to be treated as unknown qualities, and it takes a little less work to twist something you know into something new. There's nothing wrong with this, and sometimes it only takes changing one creature up to throw the characters into the "expect nothing - ready for anything" sort of mindset you want.
Invisig0th 04-18-07, 03:31 PM	Thanks. I particularly like the idea of different computers for different sections of the ship. That idea is very close to a schizophrenic computer who has various personas that are encountered at different points, but it does open up some new and interesting angles. Are these really multiple computers, or are they just multiple personalities of a single broken computer? Perhaps there is no way for the PCs to ultimately know the real answer to that question. But the benifit is that there is a lot of room to maneuver within and between the two explanations, whichever best suits the situation at that particular point in the adventure. Interesting stuff.
The Livewire 04-18-07, 09:49 PM	Just as long as the computer(s) doesn't divide the descendants of the survivors into tribes. Like the Sevateen and the Tesch...
Invisig0th 06-11-07, 06:15 PM	*bump*