Advice: Ghostwalk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice: Ghostwalk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Atsettam
11-24-06, 06:45 PM Is Ghostwalk 3.0 or 3.5?

If it is 3.0, is it easily adapted to 3.5?

Is it a good buy?

Does it have any really bad errors

Would I have to use the +5 LA Ghost template to use most of the options?
Cainin
11-24-06, 07:02 PM 1) Ghostwalk is 3.0. Though I believe that WOTC did release a 3.5 update for it.

2) Ghostwalk is designed as a self-contained campaign setting. Basically there are 2 ghost base classes in the book that are available for dead characters. There is no ECL adjustment to ghost characters for this reason. In effect, they really aren't "ghosts" in the traditional MM I sense of the word.

I bought the campaign setting over a year ago and considered it a good read. Unfortunately, I decided that it just doesn't mesh well into a regular campaign setting. Basically the campaign setting is oriented around a self contained city from which the setting is run. For this reason, it could be easily inserted into an existing campaign. Yet the campaign setting turns the concept of character death and undeath on its head. As such, it would likely be difficult to integrate foreign PCs into the setting without jumping into it hard core.

Overall I found the system to be very interesting. At various point, it could actually be more advantagous to be "dead" for a couple of levels to help balance out the party dynamics while you accomplish the job at hand. Yet to be an effective ghost character, you would need to invest in many of the new ghost feats intoduced in the book. So while this potential investment could be worthwhile for a Ghostwalk heavy campaign, they are relatively worthless outside the setting.

As an FYI, the "ghosts" of Ghostwalk can only manifest and exist within the limits of this special city. Therefore the ghost influence has created wards and other capabilities in town to help prevent unfair advantages.

It would be an interesting campaign to run or play in. But not something that I would want to do every time.
Atsettam
11-24-06, 07:10 PM Is it worth buying?

Edit: So the is a campaign setting not a supplement/accessory?

Futher Edit: Could the setting be tweaked to allow the characters to roam freely?
Cainin
11-24-06, 07:17 PM Guess that depends on your definition of "worth buying."

If you feel that its worth it to shell out a bit of money to buy a campaign that will likely last for a long time and create rather unque memories, then yes. I would recommend it.

If you are generally against buying books that you will likely only use a few times, then no. Don't buy it. Especially since you would likely need multiple copies to circulate around your playing group.

Personally, I fall into the "yes" category. But many other gamers I know would fall into the 2nd category instead.
supernerd222
11-24-06, 07:17 PM I can't be a fair judge of that, but I would just like to clarify something Canin said. Ghostwalk is one of the few weirdos that is neither 3 or 3.5. It has certain aspects of the 3.0 rules changed, such as creature size for long creatures over large size, and the removal of the Beast creature type. However, it is not quite 3.5 yet.

I do not have the book, but I actually heard it was of poor quality. Don't listen to me, though. I don't have it.
Atsettam
11-24-06, 07:23 PM Can the setting be tweaked to allow the character's to roam freely?

If the book of good quality? (As in few spelling mistakes, put together well, doesn't conflict with existing sources)

Edit: Basically is Ghostwalk a piece of @#$$% like Complete Psionics and Complete Divine

Futher Edit: On a side note would Ghostwalk allow me to ringwraith-like abilities?
Atsettam
11-24-06, 07:56 PM :bump:
Atsettam
11-24-06, 08:19 PM Thank you Cainin and Supernerd222, after seeing your advice and reading reviews on other websites I have decided to purchase Ghostwalk.
Karak_Nechot
11-24-06, 09:26 PM You should get it for cheap. There's like three copies in the 50% off bin here at my LGS.

I wouldn't say it was a bad campaign, so much as it was uninteresting. For what it was meant to do, it worked. A game where both living and dead PCs can adventure is a somewhat cool concept...but, when you get right down to it, that simply was all that was to it.

There's a few good monsters and some neat scenarios in it, but, frankly, I'm kind of annoyed I ended up paying full price for it. I thought it was cool when I first heard about it, but really was lackluster after reading it, i.e. I had no desire to run a campaign with it after reading it.

It's not a terrible buy if you can get it on the low-low. Just don't pay full price for it.
Millennium
11-24-06, 09:50 PM Is it worth buying?
I found it very intriguing, though I have yet to be able to actually use it.
Edit: So the is a campaign setting not a supplement/accessory?
The book contains a complete campaign setting, but it is designed to be easily tweaked. The only part of it that's truly important to the mechanics is the city of Manifest, and that city is set up to be setting-neutral.
Futher Edit: Could the setting be tweaked to allow the characters to roam freely?
Actually, it's designed for exactly that purpose. They give you ideas for dropping Manifest into Greyhawk or the Realms, and although the book was written before the release of Eberron you could easily drop Manifest into it (and possibly even replace Eberron's realm of the dead with the True Afterlife).

Going back to the original post...
If it is 3.0, is it easily adapted to 3.5?
Yes.
Would I have to use the +5 LA Ghost template to use most of the options?
No. Ghostwalk uses a different concept of ghosts than the MM template: in fact, Ghostwalk ghosts aren't even undead. Traditional ghosts (or 'undead haunts' in Ghostwalk terms) do exist, but they tend to make people and ghosts very uncomfortable, as they are very much not the same thing.

Ghostwalk's ghosts are LA+0. They do, however, have some severe restrictions aside from the obvious. The details are complex but very interesting.
Kojiro James
11-24-06, 10:03 PM So effectively it's better to call these ghosts from Ghostwalk "shades," as they're merely shades of their former selves?
Karak_Nechot
11-24-06, 10:18 PM If you want to call them shades instead of ghosts, sure. Otherwise, they are just normal PCs who take levels; it's just some of the levels effectively require you to be dead to take.
Gotten
11-24-06, 10:43 PM Problem with this book is inserting it into a on going campaign, as the changes it requires are quite important.

But it's very intriguing to say the least :)

This said, I never used it yet, or heard / read of somebody who did.

Joël
Atsettam
11-25-06, 12:18 AM I bought it for $35, which I don't consider to be much as I had to spend $120 when I got all three core rule books at once, and from what Iv'e read and how my campaign functions it is probrobly going to be the most useful book Iv'e purchased (I have every #3.0 book of note and 3.5 book made at this point). It also helped me fill in a gap in my character background.
Darth Sephiroth
11-25-06, 01:35 AM Its a great book, especially for dealing with PC's who die early on and use the levels in the Ghost classes (Eidolon and Eidolancer I believe) loss as the penalty for resurection and keep track of them as well (Killed again, you go with them).

I have one long running NPC in one of my game worlds who is can transform between a ghost form and a normal form and was messing witht he PC's. (Note: This was for a few years, a few months ago a new player directed me to watch Danny Phantom and thought it was a great similarity to the idea)
Ph0eNiX
11-25-06, 11:55 PM You can find the Ghostwalk 3.5 update here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20031225a

And, rules for Epic Ghostwalk can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030704a

There are items and spells that make the ghostwalk ghosts (I call them spirits, since they are closer to d20 modern/urban arcana approach) viable away from the city of Manifest. And yes, perhaps in Eberron, the city itself is located within a manifest zone.
KurenaiYami
11-26-06, 04:19 AM Problem with this book is inserting it into a on going campaign, as the changes it requires are quite important.

I respectfully disagree. Most of the abnormalities only take place near the city of Manifest. Put Manifest on a continent the PCs haven't explored yet. Fairly simply inserted into an ongoing campaign, really.
Millennium
11-26-06, 03:23 PM So effectively it's better to call these ghosts from Ghostwalk "shades," as they're merely shades of their former selves?
I'm not sure I'd say that. I understand where it's coming from, but it's a very vivicentric viewpoint.

In Ghostwalk, your ghost is still very much you, just in a different state. Some people who choose to remain as ghosts view their bodies in much the same way that you speak of ghosts as "shades." These people tend to adventure entirely as ghosts, occasionally getting raised from the dead so that they can use the life epiphany to convert their ghost levels and stave off the Calling, but they then usually die to revert to ghost form. There's even a level-1 cleric spell, painless death, for exactly this purpose (willing subjects only).
stsword
12-18-06, 02:24 AM I like the ghostwalk setting, although I think the rules are unbelievably humanocentric. I can't be the only person who thought it was pretty wierd that a dragon's afterlife for example would be more pleasant if they became undead before finally kicking the bucket?

Also, I think the ghostwalk minisetting would be useful for anyone trying to think of how to introduce incarnum or binding in their game. Meldshapers I feel would work pretty well as ectomancers, and a vestiges could be entities that are somehow able to manifest from beyond the true afterlife.
hcotterson
12-18-06, 02:33 AM I bought it for $35

Why? You can get it new from one of amazon's z-shops for 12.99
KurenaiYami
12-18-06, 04:25 AM Why? You can get it new from one of amazon's z-shops for 12.99

Not wanting to pay S&H? Not wanting to wait? Making sure the goods are not damaged en-route? Supporting his LGS? Enjoying the atmosphere of the LGS?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Atsettam 11-24-06, 06:45 PM	Is Ghostwalk 3.0 or 3.5? If it is 3.0, is it easily adapted to 3.5? Is it a good buy? Does it have any really bad errors Would I have to use the +5 LA Ghost template to use most of the options?
Cainin 11-24-06, 07:02 PM	1) Ghostwalk is 3.0. Though I believe that WOTC did release a 3.5 update for it. 2) Ghostwalk is designed as a self-contained campaign setting. Basically there are 2 ghost base classes in the book that are available for dead characters. There is no ECL adjustment to ghost characters for this reason. In effect, they really aren't "ghosts" in the traditional MM I sense of the word. I bought the campaign setting over a year ago and considered it a good read. Unfortunately, I decided that it just doesn't mesh well into a regular campaign setting. Basically the campaign setting is oriented around a self contained city from which the setting is run. For this reason, it could be easily inserted into an existing campaign. Yet the campaign setting turns the concept of character death and undeath on its head. As such, it would likely be difficult to integrate foreign PCs into the setting without jumping into it hard core. Overall I found the system to be very interesting. At various point, it could actually be more advantagous to be "dead" for a couple of levels to help balance out the party dynamics while you accomplish the job at hand. Yet to be an effective ghost character, you would need to invest in many of the new ghost feats intoduced in the book. So while this potential investment could be worthwhile for a Ghostwalk heavy campaign, they are relatively worthless outside the setting. As an FYI, the "ghosts" of Ghostwalk can only manifest and exist within the limits of this special city. Therefore the ghost influence has created wards and other capabilities in town to help prevent unfair advantages. It would be an interesting campaign to run or play in. But not something that I would want to do every time.
Atsettam 11-24-06, 07:10 PM	Is it worth buying? Edit: So the is a campaign setting not a supplement/accessory? Futher Edit: Could the setting be tweaked to allow the characters to roam freely?
Cainin 11-24-06, 07:17 PM	Guess that depends on your definition of "worth buying." If you feel that its worth it to shell out a bit of money to buy a campaign that will likely last for a long time and create rather unque memories, then yes. I would recommend it. If you are generally against buying books that you will likely only use a few times, then no. Don't buy it. Especially since you would likely need multiple copies to circulate around your playing group. Personally, I fall into the "yes" category. But many other gamers I know would fall into the 2nd category instead.
supernerd222 11-24-06, 07:17 PM	I can't be a fair judge of that, but I would just like to clarify something Canin said. Ghostwalk is one of the few weirdos that is neither 3 or 3.5. It has certain aspects of the 3.0 rules changed, such as creature size for long creatures over large size, and the removal of the Beast creature type. However, it is not quite 3.5 yet. I do not have the book, but I actually heard it was of poor quality. Don't listen to me, though. I don't have it.
Atsettam 11-24-06, 07:23 PM	Can the setting be tweaked to allow the character's to roam freely? If the book of good quality? (As in few spelling mistakes, put together well, doesn't conflict with existing sources) Edit: Basically is Ghostwalk a piece of @#$$% like Complete Psionics and Complete Divine Futher Edit: On a side note would Ghostwalk allow me to ringwraith-like abilities?
Atsettam 11-24-06, 07:56 PM	:bump:
Atsettam 11-24-06, 08:19 PM	Thank you Cainin and Supernerd222, after seeing your advice and reading reviews on other websites I have decided to purchase Ghostwalk.
Karak_Nechot 11-24-06, 09:26 PM	You should get it for cheap. There's like three copies in the 50% off bin here at my LGS. I wouldn't say it was a bad campaign, so much as it was uninteresting. For what it was meant to do, it worked. A game where both living and dead PCs can adventure is a somewhat cool concept...but, when you get right down to it, that simply was all that was to it. There's a few good monsters and some neat scenarios in it, but, frankly, I'm kind of annoyed I ended up paying full price for it. I thought it was cool when I first heard about it, but really was lackluster after reading it, i.e. I had no desire to run a campaign with it after reading it. It's not a terrible buy if you can get it on the low-low. Just don't pay full price for it.
Millennium 11-24-06, 09:50 PM	Is it worth buying? I found it very intriguing, though I have yet to be able to actually use it. Edit: So the is a campaign setting not a supplement/accessory? The book contains a complete campaign setting, but it is designed to be easily tweaked. The only part of it that's truly important to the mechanics is the city of Manifest, and that city is set up to be setting-neutral. Futher Edit: Could the setting be tweaked to allow the characters to roam freely? Actually, it's designed for exactly that purpose. They give you ideas for dropping Manifest into Greyhawk or the Realms, and although the book was written before the release of Eberron you could easily drop Manifest into it (and possibly even replace Eberron's realm of the dead with the True Afterlife). Going back to the original post... If it is 3.0, is it easily adapted to 3.5? Yes. Would I have to use the +5 LA Ghost template to use most of the options? No. Ghostwalk uses a different concept of ghosts than the MM template: in fact, Ghostwalk ghosts aren't even undead. Traditional ghosts (or 'undead haunts' in Ghostwalk terms) do exist, but they tend to make people and ghosts very uncomfortable, as they are very much not the same thing. Ghostwalk's ghosts are LA+0. They do, however, have some severe restrictions aside from the obvious. The details are complex but very interesting.
Kojiro James 11-24-06, 10:03 PM	So effectively it's better to call these ghosts from Ghostwalk "shades," as they're merely shades of their former selves?
Karak_Nechot 11-24-06, 10:18 PM	If you want to call them shades instead of ghosts, sure. Otherwise, they are just normal PCs who take levels; it's just some of the levels effectively require you to be dead to take.
Gotten 11-24-06, 10:43 PM	Problem with this book is inserting it into a on going campaign, as the changes it requires are quite important. But it's very intriguing to say the least :) This said, I never used it yet, or heard / read of somebody who did. Joël
Atsettam 11-25-06, 12:18 AM	I bought it for $35, which I don't consider to be much as I had to spend $120 when I got all three core rule books at once, and from what Iv'e read and how my campaign functions it is probrobly going to be the most useful book Iv'e purchased (I have every #3.0 book of note and 3.5 book made at this point). It also helped me fill in a gap in my character background.
Darth Sephiroth 11-25-06, 01:35 AM	Its a great book, especially for dealing with PC's who die early on and use the levels in the Ghost classes (Eidolon and Eidolancer I believe) loss as the penalty for resurection and keep track of them as well (Killed again, you go with them). I have one long running NPC in one of my game worlds who is can transform between a ghost form and a normal form and was messing witht he PC's. (Note: This was for a few years, a few months ago a new player directed me to watch Danny Phantom and thought it was a great similarity to the idea)
Ph0eNiX 11-25-06, 11:55 PM	You can find the Ghostwalk 3.5 update here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20031225a And, rules for Epic Ghostwalk can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030704a There are items and spells that make the ghostwalk ghosts (I call them spirits, since they are closer to d20 modern/urban arcana approach) viable away from the city of Manifest. And yes, perhaps in Eberron, the city itself is located within a manifest zone.
KurenaiYami 11-26-06, 04:19 AM	Problem with this book is inserting it into a on going campaign, as the changes it requires are quite important. I respectfully disagree. Most of the abnormalities only take place near the city of Manifest. Put Manifest on a continent the PCs haven't explored yet. Fairly simply inserted into an ongoing campaign, really.
Millennium 11-26-06, 03:23 PM	So effectively it's better to call these ghosts from Ghostwalk "shades," as they're merely shades of their former selves? I'm not sure I'd say that. I understand where it's coming from, but it's a very vivicentric viewpoint. In Ghostwalk, your ghost is still very much you, just in a different state. Some people who choose to remain as ghosts view their bodies in much the same way that you speak of ghosts as "shades." These people tend to adventure entirely as ghosts, occasionally getting raised from the dead so that they can use the life epiphany to convert their ghost levels and stave off the Calling, but they then usually die to revert to ghost form. There's even a level-1 cleric spell, painless death, for exactly this purpose (willing subjects only).
stsword 12-18-06, 02:24 AM	I like the ghostwalk setting, although I think the rules are unbelievably humanocentric. I can't be the only person who thought it was pretty wierd that a dragon's afterlife for example would be more pleasant if they became undead before finally kicking the bucket? Also, I think the ghostwalk minisetting would be useful for anyone trying to think of how to introduce incarnum or binding in their game. Meldshapers I feel would work pretty well as ectomancers, and a vestiges could be entities that are somehow able to manifest from beyond the true afterlife.
hcotterson 12-18-06, 02:33 AM	I bought it for $35 Why? You can get it new from one of amazon's z-shops for 12.99
KurenaiYami 12-18-06, 04:25 AM	Why? You can get it new from one of amazon's z-shops for 12.99 Not wanting to pay S&H? Not wanting to wait? Making sure the goods are not damaged en-route? Supporting his LGS? Enjoying the atmosphere of the LGS?