Aiding someone to recover hitpoints [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aiding someone to recover hitpoints [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sethable
03-27-08, 11:19 AM I'm trying to figure out the difference between assisting someone resting for 8 hours 2 or 3 times and assisting someone resting for 24 hours. The rules I found said you could either rest for 8hrs or 24hrs. If you rested for increments of 8hrs you would actually regain more hp. If you want to rest more than 8 hrs are you forced to rest 24?

ex.

3rd level character who rests for 8 hours on their own regains 3hp. With assistance they recover double that 6.

What if you only had an additional 8hrs to rest if you rested for another 8hrs with aid you would get 6 more hp, which would be equal to the total gained for resting 24 hours with assistance 12.

Now if they were to rest again for 8hrs with assistance they would get 6 more hp.

Confused as to why you wouldn't just regain hp per every 8 hours.

Thanks
Kursk
03-27-08, 11:22 AM Where is the rule that you can aid someone to rest.
sethable
03-27-08, 11:27 AM pg. 75-76 Player's Handbook the Heal Skill.
toucanbuzz
03-27-08, 11:35 AM The math doesn't add up, does it?

Parties are better off resting in three 8-hour increments than a 24 hour period.

But, there is a catch, and you're right on the nose talking about the Heal skill.

A healer must take 8 hours of light activity to provide long term care, so if you break things up into 8 hour increments, the healer never actually gets any rest. Yikes for them, 24 hours of tending to the sick? But if the care is extended to a 24 hour period, the healer still only takes 8 hours of light activity, allowing them to enjoy 16 hours of the day to themselves to rest and recuperate.

There's your advantage and difference.
Kursk
03-27-08, 11:37 AM pg. 75-76 Player's Handbook the Heal Skill.

Nope. That's a heal check. You don't aid anyone to rest. IF they rest and you succeed in healing check then they gain hit points.
sethable
03-27-08, 12:36 PM Nope. That's a heal check. You don't aid anyone to rest. IF they rest and you succeed in healing check then they gain hit points.

I'm really not following you at all Kursk, are you trying to argue semantics? It isn't even relevant to my question, since I didn't say anything about a heal check being required or not. I was only talking about the end result.

I won't deny that you need to make a heal check in order to do what I'm talking about, but I don't see how you can say that I am not aiding someone to rest more effectively. They don't get extra hp equal to the amount they just recovered if I make a successful heal check, the rate that they heal is increased which in and of itself indicates an inherent need for me to be present during the time they are resting. Its not like the character walks in at the end of the rest period makes a successful heal check and the resting character recovers bonus hp.

You might also want to consider that the use of a heal check is not limited to the situation in which you provide long term care for someone. You may also use a Heal Check in order to stabilize a dying character, treat poison, treat disease, or to treat an injury from a caltrop, spike stone or spike growth, etc..

So the reason you use a heal check is not called a heal check it is called a situation that requires a heal check and without noting what situation I'm referring to how else could I even ask my question?

Sorry about the rant, but I just don't undertsand why some people feel it is necessary to "correct" someone when their really isn't any confusion about what is being said. I would like to thank Toucanbuzz for taking the time to effectively answer my question.

To anyone else who reads this have a great day :)
kamronshepard
03-27-08, 03:09 PM Aid another is a specific action; a heal check is a single action. I believe you can use aid another to improve someone's heal check.
sethable
03-27-08, 03:48 PM Aid another is a specific action; a heal check is a single action. I believe you can use aid another to improve someone's heal check.

Aid Another is used to add an additional +2 to the skill check of the original person attempting to do something. The character aiding another must make a successful skill check at DC 10. More than one person may attempt to add this bonus if the task would logically allow.

Ex. I try to stabilize my unconcious friend. I only have a +3 normally to my Heal Check and you want to make sure I have a good chance to succeed, so you attempt to help me and make a successful Heal Check against DC 10. I now roll my Heal Check and get a +5 bonus to my roll instead of the normal +3. Your aid +2 and my base +3 for a total of +5.

It works will Heal Checks but it isn't limited to them, nor is the word aid limited to Aid Another. I would like to point out that this post was not meant to have any reference to Heal or Aid Another checks. I used the word aid as in to help or to assist. Nothing more nothing less.

Thanks
Etarnon
03-27-08, 03:52 PM Okay here's the Straight deal.

Besides what you referenced in the PHB, this ties in with p. 146 of the DMG.

It's not a case of "Rest 8 hours with long term care" three times
vs
Rest 24 for double (and the math doesn't add up).

It is a case of:

If you rest / sleep 8 hours you get 1 HP per day per level unaided.
If you rest a full 24 hours you get 2 HP per day per level unaided.

If a character with heal skill spends 8 Hours giving long term care, and makes a DC 15 Heal Skill check, that person aided (cannot be yourself, because then you aren't resting) gains 2 HP per level for that 8 Hour period, instead of the 1 HP per level for plain old vanilla sleeping in a bed.

If that person aided rests the entire day, i.e. complete bed rest, 24 hours, not just 8 Hours, Then they get 4 HP per day per level for the 24 Hour period, if the heal check is made by the long term care giver.

These rules were borrowed and expanded from earlier editions, so that you could travel for most of the day, and rest 8 Hours at say an Inn, and regain some H.P. at 2 HP per level, if you get accurate DC check made healing.

If you instead stay at an Inn, temple or hospital type area, for days and days, and have nurses and whatnot on had, you get 4 H.P. per day per level because you aren't moving, aren't traveling, etc. I.e. a week or so to recover from serious wounds, if no potions on hand.

It's not designed to be math that adds up, it's designed to separate healing for parties on the road with stops, from healing in town for an extended period.

This is set up like this:
Example

Dregnar lost 48 hit points. Let's say he's a 4th level PC.

If he moves toward the dwarven lands, moving 16 hours a day, sleeping 8 hours a night, with no helping healer, (or with a healer on hand, the healer doesn't make the 15 DC check that day), he regains the Base for 8 Hours of rest. 1 HP per level per day, in his case 4 per day.
At this rate, it takes Dregnar 12 days to get fully healed from his wounds.

If his healer on hand makes the DC every day, he regains 2 HP Times his level per day, or 8 per day.
At this rate, it takes Dregnar 6 days to get fully healed from his wounds, if the DC heal skill is made daily.

If instead Dregnar goes immediately to the nearest town, buys a room, and hires a very skilled healer, (who makes the DC check, daily of DC 15, then Dregnar heals a full 16 HP per day...( 2 HP per level per day for 24 hour bed rest, PLUS 2 additional HP per level per day for Long Term care for full 24 hour rest = 4 HP per level X regnar's level 4 = 16 Hit points per day.

FULL HEALING WITH AID EXAMPLE:
Dregnar lost 48 Hit points, a few days ago.

Healing 16 per day, he's paid a bit for an Inn room, meals, and a skilled healer's attention. Three days in town, lying in a sick room, having meals brought to him, he gets up to go to the bathroom, that's it.

After the three days, he pays his bill, He's healed back to full, ready to hit the dungeon again, having fully recovered the 48 Hit points.

That's Exactly how it works.

Good luck.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sethable 03-27-08, 11:19 AM	I'm trying to figure out the difference between assisting someone resting for 8 hours 2 or 3 times and assisting someone resting for 24 hours. The rules I found said you could either rest for 8hrs or 24hrs. If you rested for increments of 8hrs you would actually regain more hp. If you want to rest more than 8 hrs are you forced to rest 24? ex. 3rd level character who rests for 8 hours on their own regains 3hp. With assistance they recover double that 6. What if you only had an additional 8hrs to rest if you rested for another 8hrs with aid you would get 6 more hp, which would be equal to the total gained for resting 24 hours with assistance 12. Now if they were to rest again for 8hrs with assistance they would get 6 more hp. Confused as to why you wouldn't just regain hp per every 8 hours. Thanks
Kursk 03-27-08, 11:22 AM	Where is the rule that you can aid someone to rest.
sethable 03-27-08, 11:27 AM	pg. 75-76 Player's Handbook the Heal Skill.
toucanbuzz 03-27-08, 11:35 AM	The math doesn't add up, does it? Parties are better off resting in three 8-hour increments than a 24 hour period. But, there is a catch, and you're right on the nose talking about the Heal skill. A healer must take 8 hours of light activity to provide long term care, so if you break things up into 8 hour increments, the healer never actually gets any rest. Yikes for them, 24 hours of tending to the sick? But if the care is extended to a 24 hour period, the healer still only takes 8 hours of light activity, allowing them to enjoy 16 hours of the day to themselves to rest and recuperate. There's your advantage and difference.
Kursk 03-27-08, 11:37 AM	pg. 75-76 Player's Handbook the Heal Skill. Nope. That's a heal check. You don't aid anyone to rest. IF they rest and you succeed in healing check then they gain hit points.
sethable 03-27-08, 12:36 PM	Nope. That's a heal check. You don't aid anyone to rest. IF they rest and you succeed in healing check then they gain hit points. I'm really not following you at all Kursk, are you trying to argue semantics? It isn't even relevant to my question, since I didn't say anything about a heal check being required or not. I was only talking about the end result. I won't deny that you need to make a heal check in order to do what I'm talking about, but I don't see how you can say that I am not aiding someone to rest more effectively. They don't get extra hp equal to the amount they just recovered if I make a successful heal check, the rate that they heal is increased which in and of itself indicates an inherent need for me to be present during the time they are resting. Its not like the character walks in at the end of the rest period makes a successful heal check and the resting character recovers bonus hp. You might also want to consider that the use of a heal check is not limited to the situation in which you provide long term care for someone. You may also use a Heal Check in order to stabilize a dying character, treat poison, treat disease, or to treat an injury from a caltrop, spike stone or spike growth, etc.. So the reason you use a heal check is not called a heal check it is called a situation that requires a heal check and without noting what situation I'm referring to how else could I even ask my question? Sorry about the rant, but I just don't undertsand why some people feel it is necessary to "correct" someone when their really isn't any confusion about what is being said. I would like to thank Toucanbuzz for taking the time to effectively answer my question. To anyone else who reads this have a great day :)
kamronshepard 03-27-08, 03:09 PM	Aid another is a specific action; a heal check is a single action. I believe you can use aid another to improve someone's heal check.
sethable 03-27-08, 03:48 PM	Aid another is a specific action; a heal check is a single action. I believe you can use aid another to improve someone's heal check. Aid Another is used to add an additional +2 to the skill check of the original person attempting to do something. The character aiding another must make a successful skill check at DC 10. More than one person may attempt to add this bonus if the task would logically allow. Ex. I try to stabilize my unconcious friend. I only have a +3 normally to my Heal Check and you want to make sure I have a good chance to succeed, so you attempt to help me and make a successful Heal Check against DC 10. I now roll my Heal Check and get a +5 bonus to my roll instead of the normal +3. Your aid +2 and my base +3 for a total of +5. It works will Heal Checks but it isn't limited to them, nor is the word aid limited to Aid Another. I would like to point out that this post was not meant to have any reference to Heal or Aid Another checks. I used the word aid as in to help or to assist. Nothing more nothing less. Thanks
Etarnon 03-27-08, 03:52 PM	Okay here's the Straight deal. Besides what you referenced in the PHB, this ties in with p. 146 of the DMG. It's not a case of "Rest 8 hours with long term care" three times vs Rest 24 for double (and the math doesn't add up). It is a case of: If you rest / sleep 8 hours you get 1 HP per day per level unaided. If you rest a full 24 hours you get 2 HP per day per level unaided. If a character with heal skill spends 8 Hours giving long term care, and makes a DC 15 Heal Skill check, that person aided (cannot be yourself, because then you aren't resting) gains 2 HP per level for that 8 Hour period, instead of the 1 HP per level for plain old vanilla sleeping in a bed. If that person aided rests the entire day, i.e. complete bed rest, 24 hours, not just 8 Hours, Then they get 4 HP per day per level for the 24 Hour period, if the heal check is made by the long term care giver. These rules were borrowed and expanded from earlier editions, so that you could travel for most of the day, and rest 8 Hours at say an Inn, and regain some H.P. at 2 HP per level, if you get accurate DC check made healing. If you instead stay at an Inn, temple or hospital type area, for days and days, and have nurses and whatnot on had, you get 4 H.P. per day per level because you aren't moving, aren't traveling, etc. I.e. a week or so to recover from serious wounds, if no potions on hand. It's not designed to be math that adds up, it's designed to separate healing for parties on the road with stops, from healing in town for an extended period. This is set up like this: Example Dregnar lost 48 hit points. Let's say he's a 4th level PC. If he moves toward the dwarven lands, moving 16 hours a day, sleeping 8 hours a night, with no helping healer, (or with a healer on hand, the healer doesn't make the 15 DC check that day), he regains the Base for 8 Hours of rest. 1 HP per level per day, in his case 4 per day. At this rate, it takes Dregnar 12 days to get fully healed from his wounds. If his healer on hand makes the DC every day, he regains 2 HP Times his level per day, or 8 per day. At this rate, it takes Dregnar 6 days to get fully healed from his wounds, if the DC heal skill is made daily. If instead Dregnar goes immediately to the nearest town, buys a room, and hires a very skilled healer, (who makes the DC check, daily of DC 15, then Dregnar heals a full 16 HP per day...( 2 HP per level per day for 24 hour bed rest, PLUS 2 additional HP per level per day for Long Term care for full 24 hour rest = 4 HP per level X regnar's level 4 = 16 Hit points per day. FULL HEALING WITH AID EXAMPLE: Dregnar lost 48 Hit points, a few days ago. Healing 16 per day, he's paid a bit for an Inn room, meals, and a skilled healer's attention. Three days in town, lying in a sick room, having meals brought to him, he gets up to go to the bathroom, that's it. After the three days, he pays his bill, He's healed back to full, ready to hit the dungeon again, having fully recovered the 48 Hit points. That's Exactly how it works. Good luck.