Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevtar 02-08-05, 09:28 PM	Hi all, Does anyone remember in the 1st edition player's handbook how each class had a a specific name for each level? For instance, magic users would be called a "prestidigitator" at a certain level, and then a "thaumaturgist" at another, etc... I loved that. It added a lot of flavor to the game. Well, I wanted to incorporate something like that in my campaign was wondering if anyone who has access to the 1st edition player's handbook wouldn't mind replying to this post with the various level "titles" for the classes? I know that's a big favor to ask, but I also know that the D&D community is a great resource for stuff like this because everyone is so willing to share what they know. Thanks a TON in advance!
Draco Strang 02-08-05, 09:38 PM	Might wanna try this on the "Out of Print" Board. They're way more apt to have 1st ed. stuff. Personally, I have loads of AD&D stuff, but no 1st ed.
Kevtar 02-08-05, 09:40 PM	Oh Yeahhhh... forgot about those boards. Thanks for the info, I'll go check it out.
Nomad4life 02-08-05, 09:43 PM	*Sigh* first edition… Those were the days. Did anyone else have the big red TSR “starter” set? The one with the adventure with the rust monster in it? I would LOVE for someone to convert that same adventure to 3.5, as kind of a nostalgic “tribute” adventure…
hiryuu 02-08-05, 09:57 PM	Yeeeah. I didn't like those titles, it makes it seem like people know what a "level" is in the game world. Why not just give your character a title, and if he wants to change it, starts referring to himself as that? Annnyway, yes, the red books were full of fun. I want to run an old-school style game with the new rules, where everyone is stereotypical and gets their XP by playing it to the hilt. Watch Record of Lodoss War for ideas on how to react to things.
Solaris 02-08-05, 10:50 PM	Yeeeah. I didn't like those titles, it makes it seem like people know what a "level" is in the game world." Galstaff the Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, Master, Doctor...
hiryuu 02-09-05, 12:06 AM	Galstaff the Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, Master, Doctor... Yeah, but note how each level has a different title, and your character isn't in college. Titles ought to come through seniority in an organization, and that's not what levels are. You've got to do something to net those, something in an organization due to a set charter, not just kill random goblins. Or you have a title for being known as something, such as Lina the Dragon Spooker or Bandit Killer.
Kalanth 02-09-05, 12:32 AM	Titles through senority? Nah, a title should come from the PC self appointing the title. Tell enough people that you are a Purple Knight of the Hill People and eventually people will believe you (especially if you never met those people). I, however, do miss the titles. I loved when I would reach 9th level (name lvl) and would be able to take the title at that point. Oh sure, my DM and I agreed that it was to be earned, but that was little problem as my cleric soon became a knight of the golden lion shortly after reaching 9th.
hiryuu 02-09-05, 12:34 AM	Titles through senority? Nah, a title should come from the PC self appointing the title. Tell enough people that you are a Purple Knight of the Hill People and eventually people will believe you (especially if you never met those people). Yes!
Kalanth 02-09-05, 01:00 AM	Yes! Something told me you would like that. :P
iluvdnd47 02-09-05, 01:19 AM	Here you go. I still have my 1e PHB Cleric 1. acolyte 2. adept 3. priest 4. curate 5. no name 6. canon 7. lama 8. patriarch 9. high priest Druid 1. aspirant 2. ovate 3-11 initiate of the 1st - 9th circle 12. druid 13. archdruid 14. the great druid Fighter 1. veteran 2. warrior 3. swordsman 4. hero 5. swashbuckler 6. myrmidon 7. champion 8. superhero 9. lord Paladin 1. gallant 2. keeper 3. protector 4. defender 5. warder 6. guardian 7. chevalier 8. justiciar 9. paladin Ranger 1. runner 2. strider 3. scout 4. courser 5. tracker 6. guide 7. pathfinder 8. ranger 9. ranger knight 10. ranger lord Magic User 1. prestidigitator 2. evoker 3. conjurer 4. theurgist 5. thaumaturgist 6. magician 7. enchanter 8. warlock 9. sorcerer 10. necromancer 11-15. wizard 16. mage 18. archmage Illusionist 1. prestidigitator 2. minor trickster 3. trickster 4. master trickster 5. cabalist 6. visionist 7. phantasmist 8. apparitionist 9. spellbinder 10. illusionist Thief 1. rogue apprentice 2. footpad 3. cutpurse 4. robber 5. burglar 6. filcher 7. sharper 8. magsman 9. thief 10 master thief Assassin 1. bravo 2. rutterkin 3. waghalter 4. murderer 5. thug 6. killer 7. cutthroat 8. executioner 9. assassin 10. expert assassin 11. senior assassin 12. chief assassin 13. prime assassin 14. guildmaster assassin 15. grandfather of assassins Monks 1. novice 2. initiate 3. brother 4. disciple 5. immaculate 6. master 7. superior master 8. master of dragons 9. master of the north wind 10. master of the west wind 11. master of the south wind 12, master of the east wind 13. master of winter 14. master of autumn 15. master of summer 16. master of spring 17. grand master of flowers Bard 1. rhymer 2. lyrist 3. sonnateer 4. skald 5. racaraide 6. joungleur 7. troubador 8. minstrel 9. muse 10. lorist 11. bard 12. master bard As is intuitively obvious from these names the classes were much better balenced in 1e and all subsequent editions were just shameless money grabs (kidding)
Asciiman 02-09-05, 02:13 AM	The only problem with these are, and this is a major one, that I have a wizard but I DO NOT have a necromancer. Being a necromancer or enchanter tends to create an image about what you can do. Now, more then ever, D&D 3.x has more versitility so you can be a magician or wizard without ever EVER being a necromancer, or casting necromantic spells. I just feel that it was a nice idea, but it doesn't fit all around.
Escef 02-09-05, 02:57 AM	Now all we need is someone with the 1e Unearthed Arcana to give us the titles for cavaliers, barbarians, and heirophant druids.
Solaris 02-09-05, 03:21 AM	Yeah, but note how each level has a different title, and your character isn't in college. Those all were different titles. But college wasn't the point. The point was a real-world example of titles used to reflect advancement. The fact that advancement was within a university program is not important; it could as easily have been within a thieves' or assassins' guild, a church, a magical order, a bard's college, etc. Titles ought to come through seniority in an organization, and that's not what levels are. You've got to do something to net those, something in an organization due to a set charter, not just kill random goblins. What you're missing is that advancement in experience was assumed to come with advancement in your profession and in peer-recognition. Of course it's not realistic that killing so many orcs means you're suddenly a higher rank in the church. But the system isn't realistic in the first place: finding a pile of gold shouldn't make you a better swordsman, but you did get experience for it. It's just a game device.. a simplification. Just as Armor Class includes parrying, dodging, and actual armor, so does level advancement include advencement in profession and reputation.
hiryuu 02-09-05, 03:47 AM	What you're missing is that advancement in experience was assumed to come with advancement in your profession and in peer-recognition. Of course it's not realistic that killing so many orcs means you're suddenly a higher rank in the church. But the system isn't realistic in the first place: finding a pile of gold shouldn't make you a better swordsman, but you did get experience for it. Level does not equal rank in an organization, or rank period. You can be the best soldier in the world and not be a general.
Solaris 02-09-05, 03:56 AM	Level does not equal rank in an organization, or rank period. You can be the best soldier in the world and not be a general. Hey, I agree. But we were talking about AD&D level titles, weren't we? And some AD&D levels did equate to rank in organizations (bardic college, monk and druid priesthoods, etc), while others probably just equated to prestige and reputation (fighter titles, etc). Like I said: it was just a game device. I was only responding to your feeling that level titles made it seem like people in the game world knew about game-mechanical levels. My point is that they did not, but rather had rankings for advancement in professions or reputation which, as a game-mechanical abstraction, followed experience levels. That's just how AD&D worked. I'm not sure what we're arguing here. Maybe you're just arguing that it's unrealistic, but I agreed to that a long time ago. D&D is full of abstractions that don't make realistic sense. But it is a game after all, and it is only attempting to model certain things sufficiently well for the whole thing to be fun. I think I find AD&D's quirks cute, while you find them annoying.
Escef 02-09-05, 03:57 AM	Level does not equal rank in an organization, or rank period. You can be the best soldier in the world and not be a general. Indeed, skill at soldiering isn't needed in a general. Soldiers should be good shots, but a general never needs to lift a rifle. Rank does not equal experience. And as for using the school scenario, you've never heard of "social promotion"? Kids get promoted up because people in the system decide they don't want to attach the stigma of being held back to a kid. Heck, one of my cousins graduated from high school because his mom did all his work while he spent his time screwing around and being a scumbag. (The boy still belongs in 8th grade, he's dumb as a post.)
Kevtar 02-09-05, 08:32 AM	BIG thanks to ILUVDND47! That helped out a ton. As for most of the comments about "titles"- all I wanted to do was to set up orders of Druids and Monks (like what was mentioned in one of the last posts) with an old school feel to it. Another thing that I wanted to do was to build Thieves guilds with individual gangs insides like "the footpads", etc... Still though, in regard to the conversations about "titles". Although (now) a 5th level wizard may not be a necromancer per se, it was still cool (back then) to walk into a "Wizard's Assembly" and have the DM say "Brothers-please welcome Tesla (yes this was the 80's) Arch-Mage of Nevermaere" and have all the lowly evokers and prestidigitators go... oooh, he's an Arch-Mage. Course, you have to contextualize this, because with the changes over the years, this has all become irrelevant.
Temmogen 02-09-05, 02:14 PM	Now all we need is someone with the 1e Unearthed Arcana to give us the titles for cavaliers, barbarians, and heirophant druids. Cavaliers 0 lvl (-2) Horseman 0 lvl (-1) Lancer 1st Armiger 2nd Scutifer 3rd Esquire 4th Knight Errant 5th Knight bachelor 6th Knight 7th Grand Knight 8th Banneret 9th Chevalier 10th Cavalier 11th Cavalier 11th(continues on like that) Druids (part 2) 14th The Great Druid 15th The Grand Druid 16th Hierophant Druid 17th Hierophant Initiate 18th Hierophant Adept 19th Hierophant Master 20th Numinous Hierophant 21st Mystic Hierophant 22nd Arcane Hierophant 23rd Hierophant of the Cabal Barbarians have the same title throughout all levels Thief Acrobat 6th Burgular-Acrobat 7th Second Story thief 8th cat Burglar 9th Master cat Burglar 10th Thief Acrobat 11th Master Thief Acrobat 12th Master Thief Acrobat 12th (continues on like that) there ya go, have fun! :tiphat: