Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kadeno 06-04-07, 06:16 PM	I'm in a campaign where airships do not yet exist, but there is currently an arms race to develop them. Any ideas on how to make an airship using any RAW object, item, magic item, or spell from any 3.5 or 3.0 source? The idea is to come up with a method that has not already been used, a.k.a. no copying the binding-an-elemental system that is used in Eberron. Suggestions?
Seeker95 06-04-07, 07:07 PM	How about the rules on Airships (http://www.rpg.net/pictures/show-pic.phtml?picid=3266). :tiphat:
Kadeno 06-04-07, 07:13 PM	*has never felt more noob-ish* uh... um... er.... i DID say "method that has not already been used," so that kinda means stuff that ISN'T straight out of a book, right? i'm more looking for ways to combine things into.... things... yeah okay even I know I just sound dumb. Thanks for letting me know about the book.
MHolland 06-04-07, 08:00 PM	So you want a brainstorm session then? Flight and/or levitation spells for lift. Fire spells for propulsion. Wood from the Darklin Wood can be enchanted by the fae to be weightless. Others have found a way to shape the wood into the form of a ship and the airship sails on the winds. EDIT: A wizard enchants smaller vessels with large magical wings that allow a ship to literally fly like a bird.
Kadeno 06-04-07, 08:19 PM	:eek: :mymy: Wood that can be made weightless? ... THATS AWESOME AND EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING I WAS LOOKING FOR. :D its from the... Darklin Wood? What book is that from? I'm going to go try to find that right now. Thank youuuu. btw, yeah a brainstorming session is exactly what I was looking for, thanks, I guess it woulda been better if I had been able to articulate that myself
MHolland 06-04-07, 08:40 PM	:eek: :mymy: Wood that can be made weightless? ... THATS AWESOME AND EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING I WAS LOOKING FOR. :D its from the... Darklin Wood? What book is that from? I'm going to go try to find that right now. Thank youuuu. btw, yeah a brainstorming session is exactly what I was looking for, thanks, I guess it woulda been better if I had been able to articulate that myself I just threw out the name as part of the brainstorm. I don't know if you will find it anywhere. I just made that up. If it does resemble something else it was completely by accident, I assure you. :D
Seeker95 06-04-07, 08:46 PM	i DID say "method that has not already been used," But you also said: Any ideas on how to make an airship using any RAW object, item, magic item, or spell from any 3.5 or 3.0 source?Why reinvent the wheel, when someone else has already done all the work? Anything we come up with here is likely to already be in that book. There is even a free web enhancement for the book found here (http://dragonwing.net/Airships.htm).
Kadeno 06-04-07, 09:38 PM	*combusts* welllllll hm. so no such thing as darklin wood, eh? regarding Airships, by Sam Witt... well, that free "preview" doesn't actually contain any informaton about the airship engines, which are the things which would be pertinent. it DOES reference an "oil of levitation," which i cannot find any information on. have you heard of this oil? it is not elsewhere in that document, nor is it mentioned in the crystal keep item indexes. and as to your question of, "why reinvent the wheel?" why, because it can be fun!
Edymnion 06-04-07, 09:56 PM	Heh, just to throw some more into the discussion, the Ams & Equipment Guide also covers this sort of thing, including what are essentially levitating plates that you can put into ships to cancel out the weight. And Kadeno, don't feel bad. I've been playing the game for a decade now (since before 3e came out), and thats the first time I've ever seen that book. Had no clue it even existed. Of course, since I'm an Eberron fan, I now have to go buy it.
Kadeno 06-04-07, 10:10 PM	haha, thanks Edymnion, i do feel less newbish now. and uh, levitating plates? that sounds just as cool as that fictional darklin wood, lol. it's in the arms & equipment guide though? mind if i ask where? I looked through there once already at the vehicles section where it talks about airships, I didn't see anything like you describe. those plates would work really well, maybe in conjunction with the soarwood from eberron.
Ath'kethin 06-04-07, 10:34 PM	And Kadeno, don't feel bad. I've been playing the game for a decade now (since before 3e came out), and thats the first time I've ever seen that book. Had no clue it even existed. Of course, since I'm an Eberron fan, I now have to go buy it. Be forewarned: the airships in Airships bear little to no resemblance to those from Eberron.
GhostStepper 06-04-07, 11:13 PM	welllllll hm. so no such thing as darklin wood, eh? regarding Airships, by Sam Witt... well, that free "preview" doesn't actually contain any informaton about the airship engines, which are the things which would be pertinent. it DOES reference an "oil of levitation," which i cannot find any information on. have you heard of this oil? it is not elsewhere in that document, nor is it mentioned in the crystal keep item indexes. You may not want to use eberron ships directly but the ships there are made soarwood which gives ship featherfall like buoyancy. And about oil of levitation: its probably just a potion of the levitation spell in oil form. If you read the section on potions in the DMG youll find that the ones your drink are called "potions" while the topically applied ones are actually "oils".
DrakoShade 06-04-07, 11:26 PM	You could always use the Flying enhancement from the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook... Arms and Equipment Guide said something to the effect that large ships are treated pretty much like buildings, though in this case specifically shaped ones usually made out of wood. I'd rule that a ship already includes the mobile enhancement as part of its cost, of course... ...but that's just me.
Kadeno 06-05-07, 06:16 AM	Huh, this sounds pretty useful. Maybe I could make a small airship using the rules from the Stronghold Builder's guide, and then animate it. I can keep some oil of levitation around just in case, that it can use on itself in case it's primary method of lift fails. Also, does anyone know what Edymnion was talking about when he said: Heh, just to throw some more into the discussion, the Ams & Equipment Guide also covers this sort of thing, including what are essentially levitating plates that you can put into ships to cancel out the weight. I would really like to use these "levitating plates," so if anyone can tell me more about them or on what page to find them, it would be GREATLY appreciated.
Ongorth 06-05-07, 11:57 AM	Don't forget, though, there is more then one way to skin a cat: http://www.goodmangames.com/2004preview.php Now, which book on airships is better, I wonder?
Kadeno 06-05-07, 01:26 PM	haha no real way of knowing which airship book is better until we get our hands on both.
Edymnion 06-05-07, 01:31 PM	I would really like to use these "levitating plates," so if anyone can tell me more about them or on what page to find them, it would be GREATLY appreciated.Could also have been from the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Its been years, and there have been a lot of books come and gone since I read it, so my memory is a little fuzzy on exactly which one it was in. But honestly, its gotta be either A&EG or SBG, as those are the only books that covered this kind of material.
Kadeno 06-05-07, 01:51 PM	blaaaarrrgghhhh Yeah I've been looking through both books since last night and I cannot find any mention of the things. :( Found other cool things though, so it's not like I was wasting any time. :D
i_am_some_guy 06-05-07, 04:36 PM	I ran a game oh... years ago.. maybe a decade... (AD&D 2nd) where they used spells to create sky-ships. They used the construct spell, and some flight/levitation spells as well as permenance, lightnight bolt, etc. They made ships that could actually fire lightning bolts and fireballs -- all from existing spells.
Kadeno 06-05-07, 04:52 PM	I ran a game oh... years ago.. maybe a decade... (AD&D 2nd) where they used spells to create sky-ships. They used the construct spell, and some flight/levitation spells as well as permenance, lightnight bolt, etc. They made ships that could actually fire lightning bolts and fireballs -- all from existing spells. That all sounds really nice, wish I knew of a system for doing that now. I especially like the "doing it all from existing spells" part.
i_am_some_guy 06-05-07, 04:56 PM	That all sounds really nice, wish I knew of a system for doing that now..... There *is* one, it's the player's handook. An airship is just an item. Read through the spells and item creation feats/rules and use your imagination.
Kadeno 06-05-07, 07:25 PM	haha, yes, imagination is the best way. hence this thread, trying to see what other imaginations have out there. and for me, no, an airship is not *JUST* an item, it is a goal, and an adventure, and... oh wow now that's just corny. But the point being that it's the product of said imaginations, and it's fun to figure out how to build, and fun to use, so yeah not "just" an item.
CheeseMan 06-05-07, 11:07 PM	not to take the boring non-magically-levitated/propusled route (altho personally i'd still use a magic power source/engine), but you could make ornithopters instead of classic airships if you wanted
Kadeno 06-06-07, 06:38 AM	...you could make ornithopters instead of classic airships if you wanted If a character did not know the engineering to make a viable ornithopter, do you think that they could make a vehicle which simply had things that were in the SHAPE of wings, and then animate it? Would the resulting construct be able to use its wings to fly? (The reason I ask this is because I am going to be playing a character who, like all others in the campaign, has no idea about the physics and engineering of actual flight and mechanical lift and thrust. Others are pursuing such knowledge; my character is ambitious but lazy, and is trying to cheat his way around the issue, using magic instead of engineering.)
Kadeno 06-07-07, 02:46 PM	Does anyone now how to make a container, vehicle, building, etc. airtight? In case I want to take my airship to high altitudes?
i_am_some_guy 06-07-07, 02:56 PM	Have you read through the spell list and made a list of spells that could be useful? When my players did this they came to me with their plan already made and their "write up" of how they were going to do it. As GM I just told them yay or nay and then told them how much gold it would cost, etc.
Kadeno 06-07-07, 05:45 PM	yeah i have looked through a lot of spells, I can't think of any that would seal something off airtight though.
TinyHowie 06-07-07, 08:52 PM	In, Eberron, the dragonmarked communicate with elementals to help propelling(spellings) the ship. Try a Tempest from MM 2. In some other books, ships could be intelligent so they could have power to lift themselves off water. Then, you may also think like the anime Laputa, create a "flight stone" to make them fly. Or hell, just say the gnomes figured out how wings supports birds in the air and started making the first plane in the plane.
The_Grand_Artificer 06-07-07, 09:27 PM	Well, for some pointers, look at the 3.0 arms and equipment guide under air vehicals. I do recall a variety of zepplins etc there.
Chippy_the_Devourer 06-07-07, 11:49 PM	In all of 3 minutes, I came up with something that might work. 1. Shove a bunch of air elementals into a giant sack made of something vaguely elastic (be it animal skin, rubber, etc.) Make sure the sack is tied down first. 2. Seal up the giant sack. 3. Throw rigging over the sack, which should now be full of living air. 4. Attach the ends of the rigging hanging over the inflated sack to a pivot with a pole attached. 5. Find a boat, platform, or anything that passengers can stand on. Attach the bottom of the pivot to the part of this object that the pilot will stand at. 6. Attach a few ropes from the sides of the platform to the sack, so the platform doesn't tip. And now is the hard part. So far, we have a platform with the capability of rising in altitude. But how will we get the air elementals to push the platform forward? Simple. 7. Employ a strong character, perhaps a half orc or an ogre. His job is to climb up the rigging to the front part of the sack. Once there, he must irritate the air elementals into pushing towards him. 8. Once the air elementals are significantly ticked at your employee, they should start pushing in his direction. This direction happens to be the front of the sack. So, now, we have a floating platform being pushed forward by a ton of irritated air elementals. How will we pilot the platform? Simple. The pole attached to the pivot allows the pilot to point the sack in whatever direction he needs. But what if they need to ascend/descend? Simple. 9. If it so happens that you need to go up or down, command your employee to climb slightly higher, or slightly lower. When he moves, the elementals are now pushing at a 45 degree angle. Thus, you can ascend or descend while still moving forward. To land, just pull up to a tower, or a cliff, or pretty much anything you can pull up next to. Then, send your employee onto whatever you pulled up to, and attach a rope to a piton, or a mooring. Hammer said piton into the cliff, or tie the rope to the mooring. Wait until the elementals stretch the rope taut. Then, throw down a ramp or a rope ladder. Disembark, and bask in the glory of your airship. To make it easier, here is the order to best do it in. 1. Construct the tower, or find the cliff to dock at. 2. Get the platform, pivot, sack, ramp, ladder, rigging, etc. constructed first. 3. Fill up the sack, and throw the rigging over. 4. Get your employee at this point. Make sure to pay him immediately. 5. Get everything assembled. 6. Load up the ramp/ladder, the passengers, supplies, and your employee(s). 7. Set sail! NOTE: The platform should be only one level, and should be as small as you can make it without losing space for passengers to eat/sleep/etc. at. NOTE: The inflated sack should be bigger than the platform.
Kadeno 06-08-07, 12:57 AM	I've looked at both Eberron and Arms & Equipment guide, but thanks anyway. Also, earlier in the thread I said I'm trying to use methods that haven't been used in other dnd books already. BTW, TinyHowie, I'm actually trying something just like you said, with the intelligent airships and the "flight stone." My airships might not be intelligent, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to animate them, so at least they'll be alive and self-aware. And I'm trying to come up with a flight stone or something like it, some sort of item or construct I can make that can fly but doesn't actually look like a creature or wings, just something spherical, and I can house it inside the core of the ship. Or something. It's all just theoretical at this point.
i_am_some_guy 06-08-07, 01:04 AM	Stone is "stoneshaped" into the form of a hollow whale. Portholes and openings are made and by using the contruct spell glass is placed into these. Glassstel makes them impervious. The "door" is an item that stone-shapes the door or ramp open. Landing skids are stoneshape items that create them as needed. The entire vessel is airtight. Into the vessel is placed the "plant of air" that pushes out fresh air continously. A continous water stream is also added for drinking and bathing. Then, in the "heart" of the great stone whale is placed the focus stone implaced into the ring of magnifcation. This has a perment flight spell cast upon it that is focused to affect only the great stone beast. The head of the beast is the "bridge" and from there the wall is covered in precious stones, each one responsible for a command in the beast. The stone whale can fly and land. It's hollows are great enough to carry massive amounts of cargo, or troops. The stoneshape door systems can open a ramp for quick discharge of whatever is within it's belly. etc......
Kadeno 06-08-07, 04:55 AM	i_am_some_guy: that sounds pretty cool. now if you can tell me how you plan to do all those tricks with the stones, that'd be pretty impressive.
i_am_some_guy 06-08-07, 10:53 AM	you use stoneshape to secure them to the "wall" and cast enchant item telling the GM what their purpose is. You can do anything you can imagine if the GM allows it. This is what using your imagination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagination) is all about, not looking for a rule to tell you how to do it, but just winging it. I get the impression that you're relying on other folks' ideas and their reading of the rules to tell you how to do this instead of just thinking it up on your own. It's great to get inspiration from others, but don't rely on others to imagine stuff for you. This is a game that takes place all in your head anyway, that's what makes it fun. The rules are just a guide, not the end-all be-all of how you do things.
De_Chain 06-08-07, 11:33 AM	Necromancy solves most of the world's problems. The construction of an airship is one of them. Winged creatures that are turned into Zombies retain a fly speed. Undead are also tireless, and can fly forever. The answer is simple, find a really big winged thing. (Dragon, Wyvern, Roc, etc.) Kill it, animate it, strap it to a boat and fly away. A neat adventure for a group of PCs would be to gather such a body. They don't need to know what it's used for. Being adventurers they will likely not understand the boons and economic complexitys that go into necromancy, will probably lean on that old 'but it croupts the soul' argument. pheh... religious crazies...
Kadeno 06-08-07, 09:57 PM	mr. some_guy, The advantage of doing it by the rules is that whatever you make up is validated by a set of accepted standards. Plus, if i had just made something up, not only would I be unsure if my DM would allow it, but I wouldn't get to see all of the cool things people think of. Like that necromancy thing. That's a cool quest, i agree, de_chain. And the rules make sure that whatever I think up is done according to understood basics, that way I can show someone something, and they understand why its so cool. Ultimately, imagining something cool is fun, but also very easy; both creating something cool and how it works, well, thats a lot more fun. For me anyway.
Lokiyn 06-08-07, 10:34 PM	Could also have been from the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Its been years, and there have been a lot of books come and gone since I read it, so my memory is a little fuzzy on exactly which one it was in. But honestly, its gotta be either A&EG or SBG, as those are the only books that covered this kind of material. Shining South Page 56 Haluraan Skyship Shining South Page 51 Suspension Spell Levitation plates used for airships were detailed in the Shining South. SpellJamming Helms (also making airships) were detailed in Polyhedron #92 Flight Speeds Minor Major 120 180 Large or Less 60 120 Huge 30 90 Gargantuan --- 60 Colossal --- 30 Colossal+
TinyHowie 06-08-07, 11:44 PM	In MM2, there is a flying whale..... combined with phase wasps in its mouth you get a protoss carrier... or something like... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/Castle_in_the_Sky_%28Movie_Poster%29.jpg is this what you're looking for?
Kadeno 06-09-07, 07:10 AM	Lokiyn, thanks for the information.
pres_man 06-09-07, 12:15 PM	SpellJamming Helms (also making airships) were detailed in Polyhedron #92 I think it is Dungeon #92 (Polyhedron by then was a just part of the Dungeon magazine).
Holy_Beholder 06-09-07, 06:24 PM	The Basic Design 1)Make a 5 ftx20 ft wood piece. 2)Bend it so that it curves over at the end. 3)Add more wood, so that there is a form of bubble. 4)On the original curved piece, make two metal rails. 5)On the rails, put on 4 decanters of endless water each, one spaced every 5 feet. 6)Set them up so that the pairs on each side have a similar command word, the command words are: Reverse, Hover, Forward, Turbo. If you have the first three active on geyser, the airship will hover. If you turn off reverse or forward, it will move forward or backwards, but down. Turbo moves it forward. 7) Each of the decanters links to a pole, so they can be moved to turn. This will allow lift. 8) You now have a water powered mini airship that can hold 4 people. It can be scaled up too. It needs 1 decanter of endless water per 12.5 square feet. Adding weapons. 1) Add two tubes in front that are about 3 feet long and 1 ft in diameter. These can rotate. 2) Add five +1 seeking animated elemental blow guns to each tube.(oriental campaign, DMG) 3) You now have little turrets that do up to 10+5d4 elemental damage. You can add more turrets, such as rear turrets, and side turrets. 4) On all the turrets, make them rotate, but have a glass panel to keep the ship airtight. Handlebars come out from the panel, and by turning those, you aim. Making It Airtight 1) Cover the entire thing, including the inside of the turrets, but not the holes in canvas. 2) Cover the canvas with tar. 3) Add another coat of canvas. 4) Add another coat of tar. 5) Add another coat of canvas. 6) Paint 7) Cover the entire thing with a very thin sheet of glass. You now have a painted air tight airship with weapons.