Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-28-07, 08:47 AM	What do you think of the players and/or DM drinking during a session? My former group and I used to do it all the time, so obviously I don't have a problem with it. 3 of the 4 players I gamed with lived where we held the sessions (along with me), and the fourth would always spend the night after a session, so driving home drunk wasn't an issue. None of us ever got really drunk during a session (though I can't say the same about what we did when the game session was over), so it didn't particularly impair our playing abilities or my DMing abilities. On the other hand, after establishing a particular campaign, we invited a fifth player to game with us, and was appalled to discover that we gamed and drank at the same time. On an interesting side note he also happened to get offended if any of us swore, or if I made my description of the violence during combat too vivid (for his tastes). For his first session we put the beer back in the fridge. For his second session, we neglected to bring it out altogether. However, through the course of the week, my rommates/players and I discussed the player, and that our weekly gaming session just wasn't the same if we weren't able to relax and have a few drinks while we played. So we invited the fifth player out to lunch before the third game session, and broke the news that we were uninviting him from the group. He asked why, and naturally, we explained it to him with the truth. At that point he accused us of being freaks, losers, alcoholics, insert any bad name here and he just might have said it, and stormed out of the restaurant. Did I handle this situation poorly? Personally, I don't think I did, because, after all, it was our apartment, and I think that we had the right to drink there if we wanted to. Player 5 (the uninvited one) apparently disagreed. Also, feel free to discuss alcohol and gaming in general here. And please, play nice. I don't want this thread to get locked for something stupid.
Bob Loblaw 01-28-07, 09:18 AM	Without being there for the actual discussion, I think you handled everything just fine. There was an incompatibility that your group felt could not be overcome so you decided that the group would be better off with the odd man out. It's not an easy decision, but one that had to be made. It doesn't sound like you had any problems with his gaming style or his personality as a whole. What you wanted from the game seesion was different from what he wanted. So long as there were no insults from your group, then you were fine.
Sarella Starshine 01-28-07, 09:49 AM	You did nothing wrong. He was just incompatible with you guys. Though, his reaction was a bit over the top. What did he expect? That for you to change to conform to his ideas? At least you did the right thing by being respectful of his wishes before you decided that it was not working for the rest of you :)
smeagol_lied 01-28-07, 10:02 AM	Well i think you handled the situation fine. But i'm 14, i DM for an 8 year old and an 11 year old. So no drinking for us.
CyrusDuane 01-28-07, 10:20 AM	We drink on a social level (a few beers, not in excessive amounts) while playing. I don’t Drink when I DM (personal decision) but love to have a few beers when I get to be a player. My group is ok with social drinking levels. Text book handling of your situation. You displayed both concern for your group and the “new guy”. Well done.
angryman 01-28-07, 10:25 AM	Ace_of_Diamonds He was appalled to discover that we gamed and drank at the same time. He also happened to get offended if any of us swore, or if I made my description of the violence during combat too vivid (for his tastes). OK, assuming you're of legal age (hell, if you're a bunch of whiskey-swilling 14 year olds, that's just weird) then honestly, I'd find this guy's prudish behaviour a little off-putting myself. I drink beer during almost every game, and the only time it went bad was when I drank the lion's share of a bottle of mead (delicous, delicous mead) whilst DMing and...er...the PCs died. Still, that's obviously a no-no. We don't swear much and don't tend to give vivid descriptions of disembowellings, but I wouldn't care too much unless the DM went on saying, "Your sword shears into his belly, slicing him open like a pig. His intestines flop steaming into the snow in a puddle of hot blood, and he whimpers like a child as he futilely tries to claw them back in with stiffening hands, only managing to trip on his own viscera. His final wet, gurgling scream is incomprehensible as he chokes on his own lifeblood. Your sword is momentarily stuck on his hip bone but you wrench it free with a rough scraping sound." "So...I kill the Orc?"
Frida 01-28-07, 10:32 AM	I am a bit curious of why you uninvited him before you told him that you wanted to go back to drinking and that he would have to accept that?
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-28-07, 10:38 AM	OK, assuming you're of legal age Nothing to worry about. We all were. Player 5 was three weeks removed from being able to drink legally (which, admittedly, didn't stop me from offering him a drink anyway, which he refused), though I doubt even when he became of the legal age, he wasn't about to sip anything alcoholic.
revaar 01-28-07, 10:39 AM	i play in a college group, and while about half of us are of legal age, we don't drink during sessions, mainly cause we find caffiene more condusive to enjoyable gaming. that being said, i don't see anything wrong with enjoying a few drinks while you play. the the whole point of D&D is to enjoy yourself, and if you enjoy it more while having a few casual beers or a glass of wine (if you are "sophisticated"), so be it. however, getting drunk while playing D&D sounds like a bad idea to me. why would you want to spoil a good evening gaming by haveing a possibilty of not remembering it?
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-28-07, 10:41 AM	I am a bit curious of why you uninvited him before you told him that you wanted to go back to drinking and that he would have to accept that? You raise an excellent point... something that I never though of. If you ask me, had I told him that, he probably would have bowed out anyway, but that thought never did spring to the mind of any of the six of us involved. I'll have to be more careful about that kind of thing in the future.
Max the Immortal 01-28-07, 11:45 AM	I agree that it may have been better to have instead told him: "Look, we play D&D to unwind. We like to cuss and drink beer while we do it. We tried changing things for your sake, but it wasn't as fun for us. We've decided that we're going back to playing our way. You're welcome to keep playing with us, but we totally understand if you don't want to." Your way was perfectly fine, too. In fact, judging by the way he overreacted, you guys probably would have clashed sooner or later anyway.
Malruhn 01-28-07, 04:00 PM	I've tried drinking and gaming. It took away from both. While I wouldn't have a problem with it if a player wanted to drink, I couldn't do it myself. I liken it to having physical relations (sex) and gaming at the same time... sure, both are fun, but I'd forget which I was supposed to concentrate on... Besides, I'd be afraid I'd lose either my wife or my dice... ;)
Whisper_Swiftblade 01-28-07, 04:22 PM	I say it was for the best, you are more comfertible without him, and he is probally happyer to not be in the situation either, or at least he probally will be when he cools down a little. I personaly am against stuff like drinking while playing, but if someone asked me to leave because I was messing up their fun I think I would understand. in this case the fun of the many (your party) where more important than the fun of the few (him). It would have been nice if you guys came t some kind of comprimise, but I think you did the correct thing.
Herobane 01-28-07, 04:22 PM	I think that Player 5 ws being a sourpuss. Personally, whenI hit legal age, it's all wine, no beer for me, but I don't thinkit's stupid for others to drink beer. Even if you're gaming at the same time, then you get to see drunken antics from a sober point of view (which is just fun). And hell, everyone knows I swear to much, so I have absolutely no problems with that aspect of it.
Herobane 01-28-07, 04:23 PM	I think that Player 5 ws being a sourpuss. Personally, whenI hit legal age, it's all wine, no beer for me, but I don't thinkit's stupid for others to drink beer. Even if you're gaming at the same time, then you get to see drunken antics from a sober point of view (which is just fun). And hell, everyone knows I swear to much, so I have absolutely no problems with that aspect of it. And Violence is my absolute favourite thing in the entire world, so I find that it's wierd when people DO have a problem with violence. -H
OldManWinter 01-28-07, 04:31 PM	I'd say you did it right, you were forthright and honest with him. Personally I'm 30, the youngest of the guys I game with, we're all married with kids and quite frankly if we polish off a 12 of beer between the 5 of us it's no big deal. Come to think of it it's my turn to bring the beer next week!
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-28-07, 04:44 PM	Just a question to stir up conversation... to those who have stated that they object to drinking while gaming, why do you feel that way? I can see if you don't like it personally, but to object to it as a whole? Isn't that a bit extreme? (Can I make an entire post with all questions?)
Herobane 01-28-07, 05:06 PM	I'm not against it, I just don't see it as something I would ever personally do.
angryman 01-28-07, 08:26 PM	Just a question to stir up conversation... to those who have stated that they object to drinking while gaming, why do you feel that way? I can see if you don't like it personally, but to object to it as a whole? Isn't that a bit extreme? (Can I make an entire post with all questions?) Why do people object to drinking while playing D&D? Drinking impairs judgement, to a greater or lesser extent. A drunk PC can be disruptive, rude, annoying and ruin the whole game. a drunk DM can be worse. But there's a quantative difference between "drinking" and "drunk". One is a generally socially acceptable habit, and the other one is rather a bit 'off' outside certain suitable venues, parties, bars etc. Many people enjoy drinking, but think D&D is not an appropriate place for it. Why do people object to drinking generally? It could be any number of reasons. Maybe they had problems associated with it, either themselves or with someone they know. It could be that they think it's harmful or antisocial, like any other drug. Maybe they believe it's "morally wrong", though even the Bible puts it's seal of approval on drinking in moderation. They might think it's detrimental to society...there are a lot of reasons why people are against drinking.
Ramses III 01-28-07, 08:39 PM	My group doesn't do it regularly, but occasionally we will have a beer or 2 when we game. Gaming drunk doesn't appeal to me but I have no objection to players having a drink when we game. If I was in the OP's position I would have done the same thing, though neither I nor my friends that I game with would have probably toned down our language to accommodate a newbie to the group in the first place. If a person doesn't fit into a particular social group, they just don't -- the group is not responsible to change its norms for the new person, nor is the new person obligated to accept the norms of the group. BTW it sounds to me like the fifth player in the OP's group was pretty immature anyway; having a tantrum is a pretty childish way to deal with what it sounds like was a totally mature approach to an awkward situation.
Can of the Cave Beer 01-28-07, 08:53 PM	I enjoy my drink (sometimes a bit too much), but don't normally object to it when socializing. The problem comes when someone (as a player or DM--I've been both) has too much to drink and doesn't either bow out of the game until sober enough to continue or call the game off entirely and resume next time. There are a lot of pieces to pick up when surveying the plot-destruction caused by intoxication. I think you all handled the situation pretty well, and that the dis-invited player has the improper attitude regarding the whole situation. Obviously the style of game (and even socializing) was not for him and it's better to address situations like that early--which you did. He was shocked and hurt and therefore lashed out in order to do the same. If this guy is someone you bump into regularly, I'd stay cordial and probably even keep my ears open for any games that might be a little better suited to his tastes. If you don't bump into him regularly, I'd still be cordial and ask him if he's found a new game, etc. the next time I saw him.
theotherdraxen 01-28-07, 08:59 PM	Why do people object to drinking generally? It could be any number of reasons. Maybe they had problems associated with it, either themselves or with someone they know. It could be that they think it's harmful or antisocial, like any other drug. Maybe they believe it's "morally wrong", though even the Bible puts it's seal of approval on drinking in moderation. They might think it's detrimental to society...there are a lot of reasons why people are against drinking. I just don't do it personally. It's just not something I'm interested in. Alcohol is a poison, and if it isn't good for me, then I'll just avoid it if I can, on a personal level. Now, I have heard that one glass of wine is better than none at all, so maybe I'll take that up...
angryman 01-28-07, 09:52 PM	I just don't do it personally. It's just not something I'm interested in. Alcohol is a poison, and if it isn't good for me, then I'll just avoid it if I can, on a personal level. Now, I have heard that one glass of wine is better than none at all, so maybe I'll take that up... I think red wine is supposed to be good for your blood pressure. Beer can be a good stress reliever. Obviously it's a personal choice, but moderation is the key. In small amounts, alcohol has no deterimental effect, it often provides small bonuses. (and I don't mean a +1 to your fort save hehe)
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 01-28-07, 11:54 PM	What you should have done was to have lunch with him, and explain to him your thoughts and feelings with the group drinking, and tell him that for the rest of the group, you all like to drink and that that's a part of the experience for you. Tell him that he's still welcome to play with you all, but that you all will drink. Empower him to decide whether to stay or leave the group then. Also, perhaps this would be some room to compromise. Perhaps he could tolerate your drinking, but you all might drink a little less. Perhaps he could handle a little cussing, while the rest of you try to cuss a little less. That would have been my suggestion :)
seldom_seen 01-29-07, 12:01 AM	Our game days were the stereotypical "guy's night out." We would have some beers while we played, and would occasionaly break out with the cigars. Nobody got drunk and stupid, and our game play was only enhanced. That being said, if players go overboard, and take things to extremes, then that's a problem We didn't have that problem, but each group has to make its own rules.
Herobane 01-29-07, 12:02 AM	Our game days were the stereotypical "guy's night out." We would have some beers while we played, and would occasionaly break out with the cigars. Nobody got drunk and stupid, and our game play was only enhanced. That being said, if players go overboard, and take things to extremes, then that's a problem We didn't have that problem, but each group has to make its own rules. Don't smoke. Gives ya cancer.
Kalus 01-29-07, 03:13 AM	I'd have to say layer 5 was being a a sourpuss as herobane stated before thats my through on the guy, personal though it's to the individual person weather they drink curse or what not. personally in a standard game of DnD my friends including my self there's genuinely a lot of cursing, and being vivid in the violence in the game well I think it makes the game more realistic. we also drink while playing a game too I'd have to say it makes my fiends come up with some pretty interesting and funny ways of doing an adventure. so I say good for you and don't worry about anyone else
DrakoShade 01-29-07, 04:51 AM	Personally, I don't mind having a teetotaler along at a social gathering. In fact, they provide handy benefits, such as a designated driver whose blood-alcohol level is nil and who can be assigned to the important tasks of snack runs and taking people home after the game if necessary... However, if that person is a militant teetotaler (like my twin) who insists that their very presence means nobody else is allowed to drink, either... then that person isn't invited to my place on game night. Same goes for those who can't put up with others lighting a cigarette, or the occasional foul language. The thing is, if a particular activity is expected to take place around the gaming table (drinking, smoking, cursing, etc.) and a new player goes all "Hulk SMASH!" at the first sign of it, that player isn't going to have any fun, and will likely ruin everybody else's fun in the process. Trying to keep such players seperated from groups that make them turn green is merely smart policy...
seldom_seen 01-29-07, 09:58 AM	Don't smoke. Gives ya cancer. Which is why I don't smoke any more. Still enjoy a beer or two now and then though!!
christOrisen 01-29-07, 10:22 AM	What do you think of the players and/or DM drinking during a session? My former group and I used to do it all the time, so obviously I don't have a problem with it. 3 of the 4 players I gamed with lived where we held the sessions (along with me), and the fourth would always spend the night after a session, so driving home drunk wasn't an issue. None of us ever got really drunk during a session (though I can't say the same about what we did when the game session was over), so it didn't particularly impair our playing abilities or my DMing abilities. On the other hand, after establishing a particular campaign, we invited a fifth player to game with us, and was appalled to discover that we gamed and drank at the same time. On an interesting side note he also happened to get offended if any of us swore, or if I made my description of the violence during combat too vivid (for his tastes). For his first session we put the beer back in the fridge. For his second session, we neglected to bring it out altogether. However, through the course of the week, my rommates/players and I discussed the player, and that our weekly gaming session just wasn't the same if we weren't able to relax and have a few drinks while we played. So we invited the fifth player out to lunch before the third game session, and broke the news that we were uninviting him from the group. He asked why, and naturally, we explained it to him with the truth. At that point he accused us of being freaks, losers, alcoholics, insert any bad name here and he just might have said it, and stormed out of the restaurant. Did I handle this situation poorly? Personally, I don't think I did, because, after all, it was our apartment, and I think that we had the right to drink there if we wanted to. Player 5 (the uninvited one) apparently disagreed. Also, feel free to discuss alcohol and gaming in general here. And please, play nice. I don't want this thread to get locked for something stupid. I dont think you did anything wrong, but you probably should have given him the opportunity to change his behavior just to be fair. If you explained to him that his attitude was keeping the other players from relaxing, he would have had the opportunity to adjust.
Herobane 01-29-07, 10:25 AM	Which is why I don't smoke any more. Still enjoy a beer or two now and then though!! That gives ya cancer too. :D What doesn't give ya cancer? I mean, new studies indicate that BACON gives ya bladder cancer. So, now I die because I ate breakfast? Aren't they encouraging you to eat breakfast? That government wants you dead! :D
Boraxe 01-29-07, 10:35 AM	Drinking and D&D is fine. Drunk and D&D is not.
seldom_seen 01-29-07, 10:48 AM	That gives ya cancer too. :D Actually, studies have shown that one to two drinks a day of beer or red wine can decrease the chances of heart disease, and some specific types of cancers. Me personally, I think one or two drinks a day of anything alcoholic is too much, but that's just me.
christOrisen 01-29-07, 10:51 AM	Actually, studies have shown that one to two drinks a day of beer or red wine can decrease the chances of heart disease, and some specific types of cancers. So can a handfull of nuts or some grape juice.
_zx75 01-29-07, 12:17 PM	Drinking and D&D, in my books ok. Drunk and D&D, haven't done it, but being drunk obviously impares my ability to think and remember and I can't imagine it would go well. When I DM, I usually put a shot into my caffinated beverage of choice (baileys and coffee, rum and coke, vodka and sev... one of those) because I find it an aid to DMing. Normally I am a very reserved person (hey, I'm working on it) but a single shot is enough to relax me enough to roleplay like I want. Otherwise even with friends (unless I know them *very* well) it takes me an hour or so to be comfortable. A tiny bit of alcohol just speeds that up, and I hope, makes for a better game for my players. But otherwise I rarely drink during a session (unless it was with the previously mentioned people that I know *very* well), I would never get up and pour myself a second or crack a beer. For players, as long as their coherent and can remember what I just said (which some of them find difficult even while stone sober) then I'm fine with it.
Lunar_Shadow 01-29-07, 12:38 PM	Why you shouldn't drink excessfully(Sp?) and gaming don't mix Warning: Long as heck The Carrying Capacity of an Elven Backside: A Moral Tale The beginning. Freshman year at college, just introduced to 2nd ed D&D. Just running my first game. (That Morning, in the cafeteria) The group & I are getting our breakfast & having the normal 18 year old male conversations and discussing the night’s game. Two very important things happened here: 1: One player, I’ll call him CM. Mentions he came up with brainstorm to empty various household containers & re-fill them with various alcoholic products. 2: Over the radio, in one of those ‘weird news’ segments, they mention a man was arrested for attempting to smuggle a bowie knife into a building. His chosen hiding place: his ******. A BOWIE knife in his ******. I guess that awkward limp gave him away to the authorities, or maybe he set off the metal detector. Most of us were in disbelief about the ability to hide a bowie knife in such a manner, but not CM. Nope, as we are declaring this a joke, CM informs us as to how something the size of a bowie knife could easily fit into the aforementioned orifice. As he wasn’t a pre-med major (thank thy merciful gods above), we asked how he could know the ‘carrying capacity’ of the human backside. He began to go into great detail (did I mention we were trying to eat breakfast?) of a certain segment of his porn collection that dealt exclusively with young woman aptly demonstrating just how much can go where. So much for breakfast. Then, we broke up to go to class and meet up that evening in the lounge for our nightly role-playing session (nightly, the good ole’days). (That Evening) Everybody was there (almost). We had a Dwarven Cleric, the Halfling Fighter/Rogue, the ½ elf bard, human ranger & the Human Paladin. Just missing the elven wizard (played by CM). 15 minutes later, CM shows up. Said he was sorry, he got lost (despite just living 2 floors up). He then takes a swig form a Clorox Bleach Bottle & asks if we’re ready to “Kick some A**”. Then stumbles his way into a seat. The session begins well, the PC’s get a quest to go scout the local area for Frost Giants. (Not engage them, they were less than 10th level, just spy on them). That lasts until the paladin charges a lone group of 2 Frost Giants, who proceed to blow their hunting horn & the other 100 over the hill come running. Then the ‘strategic retreat’ (masquerading as fleeing in terror) began. Now, being slower than Frost Giants, the party looks for a place they can hide that the Giants can’t get into. Eventually they find a cave mentioned in the module. A small cave with no exit but the one they came in. Now, surrender negotiations begin: “Come out & we’ll not kill you” “How about we pay you 100 gold to let us go?” “Come out & we’ll not kill you” “How about we let you eat the Halfling?” “Now wait just a minute!” “Come out & we’ll not kill you” “Ummm, we’re really the only sons to a rich duke, he’ll pay to ransom us!” “Come out & we’ll not kill you” Now comes the act of surrender. Party really bummed about being enslaved. Even more bummed about losing all their neat stuff (like many novice DM’s I gave out waaaaayyyyy too much treasure). Party thinks about burying their stuff here & coming back for it, but realizes Frost Giants will realize the well-armed party that went into the cave & came out almost naked probably left it in the cave. Now, while the party is trying desperately to figure out a way to keep all their stuff….. CM, who has been taking a draught off his Bleach Bottle from time to time, has his epiphany. As everyone else is arguing, CM leans back in his chair, takes a big swig from his Clorox Bottle stares up at the heavens and casts Commune with Captain Morgan (or maybe Clorox Bleach, never really sure with that guy). And lo, is his question answered. Suddenly, he jumps up, pounds the table and says: “I know, I’ve got a big Bag of Holding! We can put all our stuff in there! Then we can hide it up my A**!!!” “Stunned Silence” “More Stunned Silence” “What you talkin’ bout CM?” “We can take everything & fit it in my a**, and then hide it. We’ll have all our stuff right here!” The accompanying finger pointing was unnecessary. Dwarf: “But, laddie, the bags is harsh burlap, not a pleasin’ material. I think it’ll not go whar you wan' it to go.” CM: “Bah, we got cooking oil right? We can just coat the bag in cooking oil & it’ll slide right up, just like in (porn title forgotten)”. Halfling: “But it’s big! No way will that fit where you want it to fit!” CM (interpreted into in-character speech): “What about that town crier report this morning! Somebody was caught sneaking into the palace with a short sword up his a**. And what about all my Major Illusion gems? I KNOW what will fit up an a**, I’ve invested thousands of gold pieces into what various young, nubile females of various races can fit into all their primary (and some secondary) orifices!” Paladin: “I think I might have to atone now.” (Now, while I hate to break up the narrative here. It is very important to explain what is about to happen. You see CM has been drinking either: A: Captain Morgan, B: Clorox Bleach, or C: a Morgan & Bleach Cocktail, thus the Alcohol Gnomes have begun to take the words he THNIKS he is saying & translating them into whatever is the most embarrassing in the morning. Thus his brain is about to say ‘in the Bag of Holding’ a lot in just a bit. The Gnomes feel that ‘A**’ is much simpler and easier to say than ‘Bag of Holding’. Thus from now on, when he thinks he is saying ‘Bag of Holding’, what will come out of his mouth is ‘A**’.) Bard: “But I’ve got a suit of Elven Chain, that won’t fit into the opening of the Bag of Holding.” CM: “Sure it will. We can just roll it up & shove it right in my a**!” Bard: “You mean your Bag, not your A**, right?” CM: “Yea, that’s what I said. Just roll it up tight & it’ll fit in my a** no problem.” (Now, realizing that’s he has entered the quasi-drunk stage & is not fully cognizant of what he is saying & being the nice, LG people we are…. We take full advantage for our own, personal amusement. If we only we had had a tape recorder.) Paladin: “I’ve got +4 Full Plate (remember what I said about overdoing the magic?), how’s that supposed to fit in that little hole?” CM: “Easy, just take it apart & shove it in my a** piece by piece. It’ll all go. The breatplate’ll be a tight squeeze, but I can force it.” Paladin (trying not to laugh): “But what if parts of it gets stuck, what then?” CM: “Just shove extra hard, it’s not like my a** will break or anything, it’s a magic a** after all. If something gets stuck just reach in & yank it back out & try it again from a different angle.” Paladin: “Now I need to atone.” Bard: “What of my lyre of building & horn of the valkeries? Are those going to fit?” CM: “Sure it’ll fit. The only problem would be if something were to blow the horn & it’s not like anything in my a**’ll blow it”. Halfling (chocking on something): “God, I hope not. I thought flying monkeys were bad. Large, winged women in full plate would be infinitely worse.” Bard (either a great actor or just slow, I’d vote for slow): “We got a lot of stuff, though. How much will actually fit in a Bag of Holding?” CM: “Wait, I’ll check (flipping through DMG). Here it is. Ummm, (alcohol gnomes & numbers don’t mix well) 300 cubic feet. That’s a lot. See the DMG says my a** can fit 300 cubic feet of material as long as it will pass through the opening. Heck, we could shove the Halfling up my a** and he could sneak out later.” Paladin: “Hey, an inside job? What about it Gerbil-boy (this was when certain rumors surrounding Richard Gere were going around)? Care to climb in and wait it out?” Halfing: “I ain’t going near that bag or ANYWHERE near that elf’s backside! Got it!? Any further attempts to approach me results in death.” Ranger: “What about my Flametongue? Can you fit a flaming tongue in? Won’t the flames hurt?” CM: “Of course I can fit a flaming tongue in my a**. The fire’s not a problem, it’s not like there’s anything to burn in there! What’s so funny?” (Did I mention Alcohol imposes a -20 penalty to your Sense Motive Rolls) Us: “Nothing. Nothing.” CM: “Anybody else hungry for pizza. How about sausage?” (He’d eat anything as long as it was on a pizza crust, thus he had a large list of toppings in addition to sausage, but the only one to still rings out clearly is his yearning for sausage). Us: “No, we’re good. Not really hungry right now.” CM: “So is it settled? We shove everything up my a** & take it back out when nobody’s looking.” Dwarf (stayed in character, mostly): “Aye donna know. I have a mystical hammer of thunderbolts. It’s head is broad an pointy, I doona think it’ll fit up thy scawney elven backside. To say nothing of my horned helm of telepathy & spear of returning (he had no spear). Do ya mean ye could fit me whole spear in your elven derriere? And my horned helm? Do ye really want somethin’ that horny?” CM (still clueless): Of course I can fit a spear in my a**! And it doesn’t matter how horny it is, if it’s less than 300 cubic feet, I’ll stick it in my a** and be happy about it!” Ranger: “What about our Daern’s Instant Fortress (again they didn’t have one)? Can you fit a 30’ column of rigid stone in there?” CM: “For the last time. YES! Everything we have will fit up my a**. 30’ stone tower, sure, as long as it collapses, it’ll fit easily up my a**. So are we gonna do this or not? Start putting things in my a** if you please.” (At this point more than one person had wondered by to see what the yelling was about, and just as quickly left to do something else. Anything else.) Paladin: “Fine you want it. Here’s my armor, here’s my…… (long list of items). Finally here’s my Intelligent +5 Holy Avenger Greatsword. Shove it in so we can get it over with.” Halfling: “Still don’t see how a greatsword will fit, plus don’t you have to LG to wield a holy avenger?” CM: “I’m not WIELDING it, I’m just storing it in my a**. I’m not even going to touch it. If his sword is in my a**, I’ll be fine.” Me (as sword): “Umm. Do I have a vote here. It is undignified to be carried about in such a manner, the only true way warriors should battle is face to face. We should charge out now to greater glory! Death before surrender! We shall die upon a heap of our…. What the? Halfling (taking damage from grabbing and tossing sword into bag): “If anything deserves to see the inner working of that elf, it’s that idiotic sword.” (Much striping down to only non-magical clothing later….) CM: “Is that it? Is everything magic in my a** now? What about you Halfling, you still got a magic silk suit of thievery on you don’t you?” Halfling: “Umm, remember when I was a few copper pieces shy of being able to buy those Bracers of Armor? Well, I sold my clothes to get enough to buy it. I ain’t wearing nothing underneath this silk suit.” CM: “You sure you just don’t want to crawl in my a** and sneak out later. That way you could keep all your gear?” Halfling: “Dear god no.” CM: “That’s it. Time to shove it. Where’s the cooking oil? Is that a Dex check? Con check? What about a save, like maybe vs Death Magic? Do I need any help putting it in?” Everybody: “Do it yourself. I ain’t helping. I’m not even looking, tell me when he’s done.” Me: “OK. I’ll just say…. I’ll just say you get the task done. You feel a little off, but you have ‘hidden’ the bag of holding.” CM: “OK, let’s leave. Tell the Giants we are coming out & we are unarmed.” (Unbeknownst to the Frost Giant leader had a quasit familiar that was eavesdropping the entire time. He was invisible, hovering at the top of the cave. I now know about a paladin’s & Holy Swords' Detect Evil powers, but not so much at the time). The party then leaves, just wearing their normal clothes (but for the Halfling in his magic silk suit). Frost giants take them aside, search them & put shackles on them. CM has big, stupid, ‘I fooled DM’ smile on his face. Quasit appears from behind them, pointing: "Be sure to search the elf good, he shoved all their magic things up his a**. I saw him!” Conference meeting between Frost Giant leader & Quasit, something to do with the carrying capacity of an elven backside. Eventually, the Frost Giant agrees; Frost Giant: “Sven, Bjorn (all frost giants are given Icelandic/Norwegian names), give that one a COMPLETE search. And I MEAN COMPLETE!” Thus 2 frost giants lead poor CM off over the hill, strip him naked & proceed to examine his elven prostate. Sven: “By the sweet lords of ice, he does have a bunch of magic sh** (I tried not to say it. I really did) shoved up his a**.” Thus began the party’s trip, nearly naked (except for the elf, who was never given his clothes back, thus completely naked), through the artic tundra and waist deep snows (frostbite can be a bi***), to eventually be slaves to the frost giant & work deep in their mines. The elf never did walk quite right again, also ruled he had some intestinal issues from then on. CM never did realize why we were laughing so much. He thought being taken prisoner sucked. I’ve left out the really nasty comments that were made as well. But, the next day, he did come to breakfast with a pounding headache. Couldn’t remember anything about the game the previous night. Once we started filling him in, his memory slowly began to return. It didn’t believe us of course, but the halfling’s player asked him to go home & read the back of his character sheet. (Turns out he’d written “A** Capacity: 300 cubic ft. on his character sheet). As horror dawned in his eyes, somebody decided to pull the coup de grace: Somebody (still can’t remember who): “Man and those girls, you know the ones form the first floor, the cute ones? The look on their faces watching you rant & rave about what all you could stick up you’re a**. I’m surprised they didn’t call the campus cops.” (Never happened, but CM didn’t know that). From that game session I learned several things: 1. Drinking diminishes your ability to roleplay. 2. Gamers are cruel, evil people, who will take advantage of your stupidity for their own amusement. 3. Once your character gets the Nickname ‘Gerbil Boy’, that character must be retired. So the moral here is: If you drink & game, your character will end up receiving a body cavity search by Frost Giants.
Sarella Starshine 01-29-07, 12:51 PM	:heehee just WAY too funny. *wipes tears away*
marcel_deathbringer 01-29-07, 01:24 PM	Well, I think you handled the situation with tact. I actually find it rather sad that people still persecute and look down on people who drink alcohol. To each there own. It would be like me joining a gaming group and having a tantrum because they all eat burritos, but I don't like them. Its ridiculous. I say if you want to drink, then drink, as long as your arent a sloppy drunk thats falling over, spilling crap on my books and barfing everywhere, I could care less. So anyway, I think you made a wise choice, Dungeons and Dragons, IMO, is not an place for closemindedness.
Seghan 01-29-07, 03:37 PM	Hopefully, this will give this individual to find a group more suited to his tastes, and y'all can keep your group more suited to yours. The game is only fun when you are with a group you can feel comfortable with. We certainly drink and game, but as has been pointed out, moderation is the key. I actually find that a little beer or wine can add to the atmosphere of the session, and our snacks tend to be atmospheric as well. Bread, cheese, fruit; stuff that is at least evocative of the IG atmosphere. The right wine or ale or even occasional cocktail can fit right in. That being said, we all all over 21 and my general rule is to not drink at all if any person in the group is under legal age, out of respect. But if somebody simply chooses not to drink and they our a guest at our game, I certainly hope that they would show the respect to let us have our beer or two.
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-29-07, 03:52 PM	I actually find it rather sad that people still persecute and look down on people who drink alcohol. That's something I also have a major problem with. I've noticed that the types of people who think this way will often respond to any mention of alcohol, whether they were directly involved in the conversation or not, by saying "I don't drink," often with a condescending attitude/tone of voice. The conveyed message interpreted being, "I don't drink, and there for I am better than you." That said, not all non-drinkers are like this. Some have had bad experiences in the past with it, often someone close to them abusing it, or sometimes having a problem with abusing it themselves. Others simply don't like the taste, or don't like having their judgement impaired. At the very least, however, they don't look down on people who choose to drink alcohol.
marcel_deathbringer 01-29-07, 03:55 PM	That's something I also have a major problem with. I've noticed that the types of people who think this way will often respond to any mention of alcohol, whether they were directly involved in the conversation or not, by saying "I don't drink," often with a condescending attitude/tone of voice. The conveyed message interpreted being, "I don't drink, and there for I am better than you." That said, not all non-drinkers are like this. Some have had bad experiences in the past with it, often someone close to them abusing it, or sometimes having a problem with abusing it themselves. Others simply don't like the taste, or don't like having their judgement impaired. At the very least, however, they don't look down on people who choose to drink alcohol. Agreed. If you don't drink, thats great, but why try to belittle those who do. didn't Jesus turn water into wine?
Bruunwald 01-29-07, 03:56 PM	I don't drink at all. I just never developed a desire to. I never liked the idea of anybody getting toasty for a game, just like I never liked the idea of anybody getting toasty when our band practiced. The initial reason is that people do get loopy, even if they don't notice it, and that can become distracting from what I consider things that require concentration. I suppose that it doesn't matter much if everybody is getting loopy together, but in both cases not everybody was. (Despite the insistence of some here that it didn't/doesn't affect their playing, well of course it does. If it didn't affect things, then why would anyone do it? And "relaxing" is an effect of alcohol - for some, anyway.) Later, we had a couple players who were so disruptive and difficult that the notion of having to play with them in a drunken mood seemed hopeless at best, terrifying at worst. So I pronounced a blanket rule of no toastiness during or before a game (necessary cold medicines and similar pharmaceuticals excepted). On the one hand, guys get together and drink beers while playing poker all the time. (And when they do, I take all their money. In fact, four of my first five boxes of Grenadier minis were purchased with money won from my inebriated parents and their friends, while playing cards with them at the tender age of eleven.) I've even been to parties where guys were drinking beers during hands of Magic. That didn't bother me at all. Just a normal party, with lots of games and conversation going on all around us. But a D&D game is a difficult prospect, requiring a large chunk of time, which is very hard to organize with everybody and their jobs, kids, spouses, girlfriends, and real life. Time is too precious to let Mr. Sloshy ruin it for the people who are trying to concentrate. And I put so much effort into providing an extremely detailed game. The least my players can do is be sober enough to pay attention. I mean, we get together with them on every other opportunity to get sloshed. They can keep this one as an exception. I do have to say, however, I don't think this is so much an inappropriate thread, as an unnecessary one. There's just a tad bit in the OP of the old high school routine of picking on Designated Dave for not drinking like the rest of us. So you guys pop a few open - so what? I've been legal to drink for sixteen years now. I didn't care to brag about it then, either.
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-29-07, 04:07 PM	I do have to say, however, I don't think this is so much an inappropriate thread, as an unnecessary one. There's just a tad bit in the OP of the old high school routine of picking on Designated Dave for not drinking like the rest of us. I suppose that attitude may have been present when my friends and I were dealing with the situation. However, this thread was not in any way intended to pick on anyone. And personally, I don't think this thread was unnecessary. It's a perfectly legitimate topic to discuss. However, I think up until this point in the thread, most responders have focused more on the personal experience I shared to go along with the topic of the thread rather than talk about the topic presented by opening the thread.
PenderGrass 01-29-07, 05:09 PM	My players are required to "drink a shot or die" at the start of every game. :dragon: ****
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 01-29-07, 05:21 PM	You made the right choice, OP. He just wasn't compatible with your gaming group. As for our group, we are all over 21 and all have hollow legs, if you catch my drift. Most of us only get to hang out with each other one day out of the week before returning to our girlfriends, wives, or children, so we take the opportunity to live it up. Except our Dm. He's a teetoller.
freedeath 01-29-07, 05:27 PM	He's a teetoller. What, you mean he charges you to golf? Just a joke, of course; I assume you meant 'teatotaller'
Solaris 01-29-07, 05:34 PM	I assume you meant 'teatotaller' Probably meant teetotaller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teetotalism).
Dracomortis 01-29-07, 05:38 PM	Hmmm. Personally, I don't drink, partially because I'm under the legal age, but also because I place a great deal of importance on my self-control; no matter what happens, it's because of my own actions and I can't blame it on anything or anyone else. Even if it's just one drink, you're losing some of that self-control, even if you don't realize it. Nobody else in our gaming group drinks, for more or less the same reasons. That said, I have absolutely no problem with people who drink, nor would I have a major problem with people drinking at a D&D game (assuming they're of legal age, of course; there's no way in the nine hells I would ever stand for underage drinking at a game session), as long as they don't disrupt the flow of the game. I think you handled the situation more or less as best you could, and in the end everyone was better off. If he really has that much of a thing against alcohol, then I don't think he could have fit in with you guys even if you didn't drink at the game session. More likely than not, he would have constantly hounded you about your habits and how you should change them. To each his own, I suppose.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 01-29-07, 05:40 PM	Probably meant teetotaller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teetotalism). Thats the one ;)
freedeath 01-29-07, 05:43 PM	Probably meant teetotaller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teetotalism). Thank you very much for the link; I assumed it was (tea) since it's another type of beverage. I love Wikipedia! Wikipedia and Uma Thurman.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 01-29-07, 05:50 PM	Just a question to stir up conversation... to those who have stated that they object to drinking while gaming, why do you feel that way? I can see if you don't like it personally, but to object to it as a whole? Isn't that a bit extreme? (Can I make an entire post with all questions?) If you know the people I game with, it's just common sense. I don't trust them with any mind-altering substances except the ones that come in little orange bottles that have very careful instructions for use. I don't trust them without those.
Durn 01-29-07, 08:53 PM	I'm all for the guys night out gaming session and we always have beers around but I've had problems with my players drinking too much. They can't last as long in a late night session for one thing -I've more than once had players passed out early- and in my last game someone brought out a bottle of tequila which seemed to encourage a lot of method-actor roleplaying including swords being waved across the table. I have to admit it made me nervous. So, as I DM I kinda wish my players would limit themselves to the "shot or die" at the beginning and then switch to Coke for the remainder.
Zicka 01-29-07, 09:03 PM	Still, swearing is wrong!:angel: I have never in my life!:angel: really!:angel:
elsajeni 01-30-07, 01:55 AM	There's just a tad bit in the OP of the old high school routine of picking on Designated Dave for not drinking like the rest of us. I would hesitate to say that I think the OP's group was picking on Designated Dave here, but I certainly think he might have felt that way. I have a little personal experience in this regard: for a long time, mostly while I was underage, I wasn't interested in drinking at all. I was concerned that, even on a liberal college campus where the campus cops' reaction to underage drinking is mostly "pour that out and go home, kid", I or the people who gave me alcohol could get in trouble, which I didn't want. And beyond that, I was totally focused on academics and grades and the experience of finally being at my first-choice school after working so hard to get in, and I had no interest in doing anything that might jeopardize that. My friends at that time were all a little older than me, and most of them drank occasionally. I was okay with that; I don't think drunk people are as much fun as they usually think they are, but I didn't mind a little bit of a drunken party atmosphere on the weekends. What I would have minded, though, would be someone inviting me to some social event, like D&D, that I wouldn't expect to involve drinking, show up, and then everyone pops open their drinks. I would have felt self-conscious, and worse, I would have felt like I was being forced into the position of being "the wimp" or "the baby" or "the buzzkill" or something like that. I don't mean to suggest that you shouldn't ever drink around underage friends, or friends who prefer not to drink, or anything like that, or even that this has anything to do with your guy's reaction. But in general, if I'm going to some kind of social activity, I like to know beforehand whether there's going to be drinking or not -- especially if it's going to be an unspoken assumption that we'll all be drinking -- and a surprise either way isn't likely to be welcome.
Azar_of_Faerun 01-30-07, 02:39 AM	I always wince when I read or see others mixing more "adult" or "vice" like things with childhood memories - NES, SNES, D&D and the like. Just...corrupts it in a way. Take your bongs and beer to the clubs, not to Nostalgia Lane
Seghan 01-30-07, 10:37 AM	I always wince when I read or see others mixing more "adult" or "vice" like things with childhood memories - NES, SNES, D&D and the like. Just...corrupts it in a way. Take your bongs and beer to the clubs, not to Nostalgia Lane That's actually kind of an interesting point. I bring my beer (no bongs) to D&D. But then again, it has no real childhood memory to me, as I only played once or twice before college. No drinking during Mr. Rogers Nieghborhood allowed, though.
Soulkeeper 01-30-07, 11:26 AM	"Your sword shears into his belly, slicing him open like a pig. His intestines flop steaming into the snow in a puddle of hot blood, and he whimpers like a child as he futilely tries to claw them back in with stiffening hands, only managing to trip on his own viscera. His final wet, gurgling scream is incomprehensible as he chokes on his own lifeblood. Your sword is momentarily stuck on his hip bone but you wrench it free with a rough scraping sound." "So...I kill the Orc?" While wildly off topic... Angryman, will you come and verbally recite our D&D sessions for us....please. If it helps, I homebrew mead, and you're welcome to it. I do need to ask however, assuming you are where your account claims you are, what mead do you get, and from where? :cool:
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-30-07, 01:03 PM	What I would have minded, though, would be someone inviting me to some social event, like D&D, that I wouldn't expect to involve drinking, show up, and then everyone pops open their drinks. I would have felt self-conscious, and worse, I would have felt like I was being forced into the position of being "the wimp" or "the baby" or "the buzzkill" or something like that. I won't deny that some drinkers turn their nose at non-drinkers as much as some non-drinkers turn their nose at drinkers. However, I think what this thread has come down to is respecting people's choices. If my group of players adopted a fifth player who just didn't drink at all, but didn't have a problem with us drinking, s/he would be perfectly welcome in our group, and we wouldn't think any less of him/her for not wanting to crack open a beer while gaming. And take it from me, as one who played designated driver for my sister for so many years while I was underage ahd she wasn't... being around inebriated people when you're sober is, in a word, hilarious.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 01-30-07, 05:35 PM	I should probably note that i feel if it weren't for booze humankind probably would have perished back in the dark ages. I worship alchohol in all its forms. As for drinking and D&D, i suppose thats a matter of personal taste. Could get you into character if thats how the suds affect you, or destroy your character if libations cause your mind to stray from the game.
Zombayz1 01-30-07, 06:14 PM	Hey, if someone wants to stop you from drinking and gaming at the same time I say ****'em. DnD is excellent with a slight buzz, and even better with a bowl of weed shared between everyone.
Bruunwald 01-30-07, 08:01 PM	I suppose that attitude may have been present when my friends and I were dealing with the situation. However, this thread was not in any way intended to pick on anyone. And personally, I don't think this thread was unnecessary. It's a perfectly legitimate topic to discuss. However, I think up until this point in the thread, most responders have focused more on the personal experience I shared to go along with the topic of the thread rather than talk about the topic presented by opening the thread. It's not that I don't believe that your intentions are sincere. It's just that there's no real point to be proven. I guess, in my mind, it seems to suggest that the thread was started more in the vein of a request for people to tell you you were right. Now, the inevitable side-effect of that is that this other guy is going to be made to look like a weenie. And though you might not have intended that, some people have accommodated it anyway. To my mind, you are totally right to enjoy the kind of game you and your buddies want, and no validation is necessary. But when a person seeks validation on a dubious pursuit, and the inevitable side-effect is someone looking like a weenie, then yes, my Spock eyebrow goes up and I start to wonder. Admittedly, I am an a**hole, and some of that is using the end to prove a motive. I'm just trying out a different perspective, is all. Testing the possibilities.
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-30-07, 09:41 PM	It's not that I don't believe that your intentions are sincere. It's just that there's no real point to be proven. I guess, in my mind, it seems to suggest that the thread was started more in the vein of a request for people to tell you you were right. Now, the inevitable side-effect of that is that this other guy is going to be made to look like a weenie. I see your point. However, you could probably say the exact same thing about just about any of the threads in the "What's a DM to Do?" or "What's a Player to Do?" forums, asking the opinion of outsiders about how they handled a situation.
Bruunwald 01-31-07, 12:55 PM	I see your point. However, you could probably say the exact same thing about just about any of the threads in the "What's a DM to Do?" or "What's a Player to Do?" forums, asking the opinion of outsiders about how they handled a situation. It's true that some of us sometimes get a sense that somebody is looking for validation or even to brag in otherwise normal-seeming threads, rather than actually seeking advice, you're right. And some of us even call them on it, on occasion. Though, it does seem that there are certain topics that would invite suspicion more overtly. For instance, if you had asked if anybody ever had to ask an overly talkative and distracting player to leave, I don't think anybody would have thought twice. But when you bring up a discussion on something traditionally a little more controversial, such as sobriety, it becomes a different kind of conversation from the outset. Talkative people do not form a large segment that has been disenfranchised to any degree. Sober people - and drunk people - do, in the form of peer pressure and social status. Both groups may try to get along, but inevitably there will be friction between them. Like another poster earlier, I was singled out and made to feel weird in high school and college for not being drunk, which when you think about it, is patently absurd. It is only natural for those of us with that experience to feel for the youngster in your story. From that perspective, the thread seems sort of... well, not to be even more of an a**hole, but the thread seems fratboy-ish. Fratish, if you prefer. D&D being traditionally the demesne of those rejected by the Greek system, I can see some of the more reactionary even seeing such a thread as an intrusion. Now, I am simultaneously a very mature person, who can at any moment act in the most amazingly immature ways imaginable. So I am not trying to cast stones. I'm just pointing out that any conversation regarding the use of things like sex, drugs, alcohol, firearms, caged animals, pornography, leather, spandex, vinyl, feathers, decorative swords, your Uncle Morty, or anything else that has made someone feel uncomfortable at some point, in your game, is probably going to invite controversy, no matter how sincere your intentions.
Edymnion 01-31-07, 01:18 PM	What do you think of the players and/or DM drinking during a session?Simple, anyone that drinks during any game I run, or shows up drunk is kicked out of my game, and not allowed back in. If the DM drinks and games, I simply never go back to one of his games. If fellow players drink, I ask them not to, and if they refuse, I don't come back to games with them in it anymore. I don't drink, and I don't like being around drunk people. For me, not gaming at all is preferable to gaming with drunks. Everybody I game with knows this up front, and if they like to get ripped off their asses, they don't do it around me. Same with drugs, but typically involving a tip off to the police while I'm at it. Zero tolerance there folks.
Sinaz 01-31-07, 01:25 PM	Ent's Draught 1 part midori 1 part premium vodka 10 parts premium artesian/spring/mineral water dash of lime juice per serving 1 half-inch cucumber slice, coarsely pulped/muddled per serving combine, thoroughly chill allowing cucumber to infuse. Serve in a small bowl with an ice cube and a thin slice of cucumber. Do not strain, as the cucumber pulp is key to the texture. Not a hard drink by any means, but delicious, refreshing, and a big hit at our last D&D session. PS - I invented this drink at my home bar.
marcel_deathbringer 01-31-07, 01:49 PM	Simple, anyone that drinks during any game I run, or shows up drunk is kicked out of my game, and not allowed back in. If the DM drinks and games, I simply never go back to one of his games. If fellow players drink, I ask them not to, and if they refuse, I don't come back to games with them in it anymore. I don't drink, and I don't like being around drunk people. For me, not gaming at all is preferable to gaming with drunks. Everybody I game with knows this up front, and if they like to get ripped off their asses, they don't do it around me. Same with drugs, but typically involving a tip off to the police while I'm at it. Zero tolerance there folks. Holy Crap. Not all people drink to get drunk. From the way you wrote this, it sounds like you think all people that drink are drunk. And why in Gods name would you tip the police if someone you knew was doing drugs?? I can understand you not wanting to be around them, but why play the role of a Narc? To each their own .
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-31-07, 06:08 PM	Holy Crap. Not all people drink to get drunk. From the way you wrote this, it sounds like you think all people that drink are drunk. And why in Gods name would you tip the police if someone you knew was doing drugs?? I can understand you not wanting to be around them, but why play the role of a Narc? To each their own . As harsh as his post seemed, I can respect his views, and that's his decision to make. That said, Edymnion would be welcome to join one of my games, but I wouldn't change the fact that I drink and game for him, so he'd either decline my invitation or quit after 30 seconds.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 01-31-07, 06:23 PM	I can respect the right for an individual not to drink if said individual can respect my right to drink. I don't hang a lot of morality on the act of drinking. In short, a person doesnt have to drink to be my buddy. I strongly dissaprove of the act of narc-ing however. That can destroy someone's life, and for no more reason than the self satisfaction of exerting what a person and collective society believes to be "right," regardless of the merits of individual people. Regardless of a person's personal stance on drugs, there are an aweful lot of people in jail or prison that arent criminals, but individualists choosing to do what they feel is a right in the governance of thier bodies.
Dracomortis 01-31-07, 06:45 PM	On the topic of drug use, it's one of those things that has to be a case-by-case basis, not something that can be generalized into "Okay, this person does drugs, they deserve to go to jail." Some people use drugs for very understandable reasons. Maybe they're victims of child/spousal abuse, they've lost loved ones, or been involved in some other extremely traumatic event. They can't cope with reality, so they seek a way out of it. Granted, there are much better, safer ways to deal with it, but most of the time these people aren't in situations where they can see or even have access to other alternatives. No, I don't support drug use, and I think that anyone who uses them is being stupid, quite honestly, but I can certainly see why they might do so. However, rather than calling the cops and having them arrested, thrown in jail, and probably ruining their lives even more, I think you should try to find out what the problem is and try to help them through it. Show them that there's a better way to deal with their problems, and that they don't have to throw their lives away because of one bad experience. Most drug addicts just want to feel accepted and forget about their past memories and the pain it brings them. They shouldn't turn to drugs and you should try to show them this, but turning them in is not nearly the best way to handle it. However, the issue itself can be problematic because as with all activities, whether legal or illegal, there is a great variance amongst the individuals who partake in it. Some people use drugs to escape from their lives, but other people do it just because they feel the need to "fit in" or look "cool". Others grew up in situations where they never learned the dangers inherent in drug use, and so to them using drugs is as commonplace and natural as chewing gum is to us. Looking in from the outside, we tend to have a one-sided view of the issue, but unless we can understand that it isn't as simple as black and white, that there are many, many shades of grey in between, we cannot begin to solve the problem.
marcel_deathbringer 01-31-07, 07:05 PM	I can respect the right for an individual not to drink if said individual can respect my right to drink. I don't hang a lot of morality on the act of drinking. In short, a person doesnt have to drink to be my buddy. I strongly dissaprove of the act of narc-ing however. That can destroy someone's life, and for no more reason than the self satisfaction of exerting what a person and collective society believes to be "right," regardless of the merits of individual people. Regardless of a person's personal stance on drugs, there are an aweful lot of people in jail or prison that arent criminals, but individualists choosing to do what they feel is a right in the governance of thier bodies. I actually could not have said it better. There are thousands of people in prison that are not criminals. I think sending non-violent drug users to prison is an absolutely absurd way to try to Fight the "war on drugs", and to hear someone say they would play a narc for the police(potentially narcing out someone who wants to be your friend and enjoy a little role playing) it just blows my mind. Where is the sense of brotherhood and loyalty among gamers?
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 01-31-07, 07:06 PM	On the topic of drug use, it's one of those things that has to be a case-by-case basis, not something that can be generalized into "Okay, this person does drugs, they deserve to go to jail." Some people use drugs for very understandable reasons. Maybe they're victims of child/spousal abuse, they've lost loved ones, or been involved in some other extremely traumatic event. They can't cope with reality, so they seek a way out of it. Granted, there are much better, safer ways to deal with it, but most of the time these people aren't in situations where they can see or even have access to other alternatives. No, I don't support drug use, and I think that anyone who uses them is being stupid, quite honestly, but I can certainly see why they might do so. However, rather than calling the cops and having them arrested, thrown in jail, and probably ruining their lives even more, I think you should try to find out what the problem is and try to help them through it. Show them that there's a better way to deal with their problems, and that they don't have to throw their lives away because of one bad experience. Most drug addicts just want to feel accepted and forget about their past memories and the pain it brings them. They shouldn't turn to drugs and you should try to show them this, but turning them in is not nearly the best way to handle it. However, the issue itself can be problematic because as with all activities, whether legal or illegal, there is a great variance amongst the individuals who partake in it. Some people use drugs to escape from their lives, but other people do it just because they feel the need to "fit in" or look "cool". Others grew up in situations where they never learned the dangers inherent in drug use, and so to them using drugs is as commonplace and natural as chewing gum is to us. Looking in from the outside, we tend to have a one-sided view of the issue, but unless we can understand that it isn't as simple as black and white, that there are many, many shades of grey in between, we cannot begin to solve the problem. That was a post of beauty. Edit: to Marcel I also aggree with your opinions too. Drug use is a mighty broad and diverse subject. Your opinion holds valid for those who choose to use drugs, as Drac's is on drugs as a social problem for many people. But, tying this into gaming somehow... Nobody i personally game with uses "illicit" drugs, but i suppose if they did it the act itself wouldnt bother me. Like alchohol, if a person can light up and it enhances thier play, so be it. In other words, my stance on drugs is pretty much the same with booze (why differentiate? The're both drugs!)
Zombayz1 01-31-07, 08:25 PM	Simple, anyone that drinks during any game I run, or shows up drunk is kicked out of my game, and not allowed back in. If the DM drinks and games, I simply never go back to one of his games. If fellow players drink, I ask them not to, and if they refuse, I don't come back to games with them in it anymore. I don't drink, and I don't like being around drunk people. For me, not gaming at all is preferable to gaming with drunks. Everybody I game with knows this up front, and if they like to get ripped off their asses, they don't do it around me. Same with drugs, but typically involving a tip off to the police while I'm at it. Zero tolerance there folks. Do yourself a favour and never move to Quesnel or anywhere in Canada for that matter. We have this strange tendency to not care if you're doing anything less harsh than E(cstasy) Seriously,would you really call the pigs if someone had a little weed or mush? That's just fine if you're a goody goody, but in reality all that does is get you hated. Unless you live in the US, where a good portion of the 'law-abiding' citizens are total hypocrites.
DrakoShade 01-31-07, 09:55 PM	In a previous thread (which Sarella Starshine also participated in, if I'm not mistaken) I made a comment that I prefer to game with my creature comforts close at hand-- ash tray on one side, wine glass on the other. I wouldn't want to get drunk at the game table (hense the fact that it's wine instead of vodka), and I dislike beer, so that's that... We really need to look at a broader issue than just alcohol-- or other intoxicants-- here. This whole thread, at its very heart, is a question of conflicting style. Do we want beer and peanuts? Wine and cheese? Perhaps we would prefer Mt. Dew and chips? What about other elements? Should we have some background music playing while we game? If so, should it be heavy metal, country, or the Lord of the Rings soundtrack? These questions really don't make much of a difference in the amount of fun the group is having unless two people answer one of them in radically different ways. When the beer-and-peanuts group is joined by a teetotaler, the problem is quickly visible-- especially if said teetotaler is adamantly vocal and condemning about it. Same goes if somebody brings a case of beer for himself when nobody else in the game drinks, and he insists that if he can't get hammered, the game will suck. The problem is equally visible when all of the players prefer rock, but the DM insists that there not only must be music, but that it will be country. I've seen it come up over something as simple as whether to have Nacho- or Ranch-flavored Doritos at the game table! It's stupid, but it happens. In the end, I think that each person who's about to hit the game table should draw up a list of the things that he wants out of the game-- from snacks and beverages to background noise to whether it should be hack-and-slash or immersive politics. Rank the topics based on how much you care about the issue... Then it's the DM's job to take those sheets of paper and look for conflicts to come. You may be able to work it out, or you may not. At least you could then say that an effort had been made. Personally, I'll take some white wine, a bag of Tostitos, a lack of music, and a middle-of-the-road game with a little of everything. I can deal with having to step outside to smoke, as long as the game pauses at least once every two hours for just that purpose. I don't care whether the other gamers drink or not, as long as nobody starts slurring their words. If somebody wants a different snack, they can bring it (I'll bring my own chips anyway.) Just keep those who can't comprimise away from my gaming table.
Sphyre 02-01-07, 01:01 AM	On the other hand, after establishing a particular campaign, we invited a fifth player to game with us, and was appalled to discover that we gamed and drank at the same time. On an interesting side note he also happened to get offended if any of us swore, or if I made my description of the violence during combat too vivid (for his tastes). ~snip~ At that point he accused us of being freaks, losers, alcoholics, insert any bad name here and he just might have said it, and stormed out of the restaurant. Looks like to me, he was uncomfortable, and unable to accept people with a different lifestyle or simple choices than he would make. Not to mention you were in an established group, while he was invited to join you, not reform you to his liking. Sounds like you did him a favor by uninviting him. If he's that unaccepting of other people, he needs to look long and hard for people he does "approve" of.
Ace_of_Diamonds 02-01-07, 01:04 AM	(the best post in this thread) You, sir, win this thread.
Ace_of_Diamonds 02-01-07, 01:07 AM	Looks like to me, he was uncomfortable, and unable to accept people with a different lifestyle or simple choices than he would make. Not to mention you were in an established group, while he was invited to join you, not reform you to his liking. Sounds like you did him a favor by uninviting him. If he's that unaccepting of other people, he needs to look long and hard for people he does "approve" of. Rightly so, I suppose. If I were to go to a game session with an already established group myself, bring a six pack of beer, but be asked to put it away, I'd have no problem with putting it away and not bringing it back the next time. The presence or absence of alcohol will not make or break the game for me. If one were to ask my personal preference, I'd prefer a "wet" game, but if the general majority of the group would prefer it to be a "dry" game, I've got no problem with that either.
johnhansen 02-01-07, 01:13 AM	If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where smoking dope I might stay and play. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where smoking cigarettes I would leave. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where drinking hard liquor I would leave. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where drinking beer I would leave. I have never smoked dope or drank beer, I was 4 years old the first and last time I smoked a cigarette and tequila is my choice of hard liquor. I am I better than you because of what I just said no, I am better than you for many other reasons:D
Sphyre 02-01-07, 02:54 AM	If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where smoking dope I might stay and play. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where smoking cigarettes I would leave. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where drinking hard liquor I would leave. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where drinking beer I would leave. I have never smoked dope or drank beer, I was 4 years old the first and last time I smoked a cigarette and tequila is my choice of hard liquor. I am I better than you because of what I just said no, I am better than you for many other reasons:D Is this some kind of creed of some organization? Those last two lines sound very creepy. I don't advocate drinking, smoking or doing drugs. Of the previous, I only do drinking of alcohol in moderation, and I've never done so illegally (underage). What does this mean? It reflects my personal morals. Everyone else has different morals. I would never smoke for a variety of reasons, but I game with, and have gamed with many people in the past who do smoke. I game with some that are too young to drink alcohol too. I eat healthy food and excersize. It's a lifestyle choice. As are anything of the above. Does that mean I'm better than others because I eat healthy and excersize? Maybe the benefit of being healthy and in shape is more than enough, rather than imagining some false superiority due to my lifestyle choices. Saying you're better than someone because they drink alcohol would be like me saying I'm better than you because you eat potato chips. What is right for some is not always right for another, which goes a long way in explaining the fact that there are a lot of different people in the world.
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 09:17 AM	If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where smoking dope I might stay and play. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where smoking cigarettes I would leave. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where drinking hard liquor I would leave. If I went to a house to play D&D and and they where drinking beer I would leave. I have never smoked dope or drank beer, I was 4 years old the first and last time I smoked a cigarette and tequila is my choice of hard liquor. I am I better than you because of what I just said no, I am better than you for many other reasons:D Okay, this thread just took a turn down Retarded Road.
johnhansen 02-01-07, 10:56 AM	marcel_deathbringer I actually could not have said it better. There are thousands of people in prison that are not criminals. I think sending non-violent drug users to prison is an absolutely absurd way to try to Fight the "war on drugs", and to hear someone say they would play a narc for the police(potentially narcing out someone who wants to be your friend and enjoy a little role playing) it just blows my mind. Where is the sense of brotherhood and loyalty among gamers? Okay, this thread just took a turn down Retarded Road. So md it is not ok to be a narc but it is ok to be rude.
Sphyre 02-01-07, 11:06 AM	So md it is not ok to be a narc but it is ok to be rude. I am I better than you because of what I just said no, I am better than you for many other reasons:D You don't think it's a slight bit rude to self-proclaim superiority over everyone here?
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 11:44 AM	marcel_deathbringer So md it is not ok to be a narc but it is ok to be rude. I think its far more RUDE for someone to claim to be so much better than me, without even knowing me. It's great that you have never smoked pot and you don't like beer, but come on, does that really make you better than everyone else here? So I actually think my Rudeness was totally not out of line here. Step off of your high horse.
Sphyre 02-01-07, 12:34 PM	It's great that you have never smoked pot and you don't like beer, but come on, does that really make you better than everyone else here? I find it funny that he says tequila is his hard liquor of choice, yet somehow has something against beer. That's a double standard. I wouldn't expect someone who is a hypocrite to understand that he's being selective when it comes to applying his perceptions. There's even been a repeated study, that has shown that a glass of red wine a day is actually healthier for you than not. Obviously, alcohol isn't all bad being as it has it's health benefits in moderation.
BlinkDOGwrangler 02-01-07, 12:36 PM	You may not have noticed the " :D " after his declaration of superiority. That implies that he/she is not serious and/or joking. Don't take things so seriously and have fun.:P
Sphyre 02-01-07, 01:18 PM	...or perhaps it was gloating? In fact his response to marcel_deathbringer seems to support the idea that he wasn't joking. Maybe a ;) would have done a bit better at implying a joke, if it were intended as such.
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 01:25 PM	...or perhaps it was gloating? In fact his response to marcel_deathbringer seems to support the idea that he wasn't joking. Maybe a ;) would have done a bit better at implying a joke, if it were intended as such. Yeah, I didn't really get a "joking" feeling from that post. I just thought those comment were out of line.
Ace_of_Diamonds 02-01-07, 01:31 PM	Yeah, I didn't really get a "joking" feeling from that post. I just thought those comment were out of line. Oddly enough, I did. How many ranks do you have in Detect Humor? :P
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 01:33 PM	Oddly enough, I did. How many ranks do you have in Detect Humor? :P Well, I guess I only have one rank in Detect Humor (but as I said, I didn't really find in humor on that post) Although, I guess it could have been an illusion.
bonethug0108 02-01-07, 01:35 PM	Well, I guess I only have one rank in Detect Humor (but as I said, I didn't really find in humor on that post) Although, I guess it could have been an illusion. Then cast detect magic:P ;)
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 01:36 PM	Then cast detect magic:P ;) Don't have it memorized for the day, but I might have a scroll **checks scroll case** Nope, no scrolls either, DAMN From now on, no more illusions on this thread.
bonethug0108 02-01-07, 01:40 PM	Don't have it memorized for the day Well, we could bring the post to the town mage for inspection. We must get this evidence or there can be no trial.
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 01:42 PM	Well, we could bring the post to the town mage for inspection. We must get this evidence or there can be no trial. Well, I will need some help getting it to town, it is 9 miles away after all.
bonethug0108 02-01-07, 01:46 PM	Well, I will need some help getting it to town, it is 9 miles away after all. :invasion: will this be enough help?
marcel_deathbringer 02-01-07, 01:56 PM	:invasion: will this be enough help? Should do the trick.
Arrowhen 02-01-07, 04:35 PM	I like to game with people who play fairly, play interesting and entertaining characters, focus on the game enough to get stuff done during a session, but still take the time to laugh often. As long as those qualities are present, it's none of my damned business what substances they ingest before, during, or after the game.
Edymnion 02-03-07, 04:23 PM	Holy Crap. Not all people drink to get drunk. From the way you wrote this, it sounds like you think all people that drink are drunk.Let me put it this way, I have yet to meet anyone that can take just one drink, stop, and still act like a respectable individual.And why in Gods name would you tip the police if someone you knew was doing drugs?? I can understand you not wanting to be around them, but why play the role of a Narc? To each their own .If they're on my property with the crap, then I could be held legally responcible for it. That ain't gonna happen. Add to that that I have *ZERO* respect for drug addicts, and you realize that I just don't care. I can respect the right for an individual not to drink if said individual can respect my right to drink.And I'm not on any kind of crusade to bring back prohibition. I just have had nothing but bad experiences with the stuff and the things it causes, and I choose not to be around it.I strongly dissaprove of the act of narc-ing however. That can destroy someone's life, and for no more reason than the self satisfaction of exerting what a person and collective society believes to be "right," regardless of the merits of individual people. Regardless of a person's personal stance on drugs, there are an aweful lot of people in jail or prison that arent criminals, but individualists choosing to do what they feel is a right in the governance of thier bodies.I won't get into any moral discussions about this. If you step foot on my property with marijuana or cocaine in your posession, a police officer will be the one who escorts you off it again. And considering I have several friends on the force, I won't have any problems getting one of them here in a hurry. It won't wound me in the slightest if you never talk to me again because of it either.Seriously,would you really call the pigs if someone had a little weed or mush?Yes, I would, and I have. And everybody I know knows this and accepts that if they do that sort of thing, they just don't tell me about it. Same way that if they've got a 12 year old girl tied up in their basement they don't go bragging about it to me.Unless you live in the US, where a good portion of the 'law-abiding' citizens are total hypocrites.I do live in the US. But then I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't even like to take an aspirin unless I have to. The closest thing to this that I come is about the equivolent of two cups of coffee a day (several glasses of iced tea spread out over the day). I'm quite capable of having a good time without having to resort to substance abuse to do it.
bonethug0108 02-03-07, 04:38 PM	Let me put it this way, I have yet to meet anyone that can take just one drink, stop, and still act like a respectable individual. I know you haven't met me, but I do this all the time. After work my cousin and I go to the store and he gets beer and I get bacardi. We head to his house, drink and chill for a half hour or so and then I head home(which is right down the street.) I also know a bunch of other people(mostly girls and especially my girlfriend) that gets one drink when they go out. None of these people act unrespectable(at least not due to alcohol:P ) afterwards. Just because you haven't meet any decent people doesn't mean that all people who drink are drunks, thank you very much.
Edymnion 02-03-07, 04:54 PM	Just because you haven't meet any decent people doesn't mean that all people who drink are drunks, thank you very much.No, but its simple conditioned responce. There are only so many times I have to touch a hot stove and get burned before I stop touching it. Alcohol is like the RPGA, I'm sure there are people out there that can participate in them without becoming complete asses, but I've been burned by both so many times that I've learned to just stop touching those particular stoves.
bonethug0108 02-03-07, 04:59 PM	No, but its simple conditioned responce. There are only so many times I have to touch a hot stove and get burned before I stop touching it. Alcohol is like the RPGA, I'm sure there are people out there that can participate in them without becoming complete asses, but I've been burned by both so many times that I've learned to just stop touching those particular stoves. I believe a more correct analogy would be a stove that is often left on by accident. Sure, you may often get burned, but not everytime. If you've have the misfortune to get burned ever time, I definitely feel for you, as my dad was(or should I say is) an alcoholic, and not a pleasent one. That, and drugs, is the reason my mom divorced him. So I can understand you if you say that you don't want to be around people who drink, but not all people who drink, or get drunk(as I've found I'm a sleepy drunk who likes to dance) are buttholes. 50% might be more accurate:P
Ace_of_Diamonds 02-03-07, 06:51 PM	Let me put it this way, I have yet to meet anyone that can take just one drink, stop, and still act like a respectable individual. I have yet to meet someone named Parker who didn't befriend me for 15 years only to betray my trust, steal money from me, and shoot at me. Granted, I've only ever met one person named Parker in my life, but when is enough, enough? It's never enough. I'm not paranoid about people named Parker stealing my money, nor will I ever be. Everyone deserves a chance, if you ask me. Even if it is only one chance.
Zombayz1 02-03-07, 07:19 PM	Sorry for being harsh Edymnion, but I've seen people act like you said you would ruin my friends lives. Hell, my uncle Stan IS a narc, and even he doesn't bust anyone for weed, assuming it's not laced. Everyone one I know who drinks (all but 2 people) are smart enough to have either one drink, or we're partying so it doesn't matter how much you drink.
Edymnion 02-03-07, 07:48 PM	Everyone one I know who drinks (all but 2 people) are smart enough to have either one drink, or we're partying so it doesn't matter how much you drink.I just tell people that I'm the designated driver whenever I get stuck someplace with alcohol. The only thing worse than being around drunk people is being around drunk people that have made it their personal mission to get you drunk as well. At least most of them will leave you alone when they hear DD. Although, I did once get into a rather unpleasant situation with a bartender that refused to serve me plain orange juice. Damn unopened carton was right behind him, and he outright refused to serve me anything unless there was booze in it. I ended up having to leave the party, walk several blocks down the road to a gas station to buy a coke, and walk back, or I would have gone the entire night without so much as a drink of WATER. No, he would not even give me freaking tap water. If I hadn't been so ticked, I would have thought to get his bartender's liscence number and would have reported his sorry ass. See if I couldn't have gotten his liscence revoked.
Scorpion13 02-03-07, 08:35 PM	I just tell people that I'm the designated driver whenever I get stuck someplace with alcohol. The only thing worse than being around drunk people is being around drunk people that have made it their personal mission to get you drunk as well. At least most of them will leave you alone when they hear DD. Although, I did once get into a rather unpleasant situation with a bartender that refused to serve me plain orange juice. Damn unopened carton was right behind him, and he outright refused to serve me anything unless there was booze in it. I ended up having to leave the party, walk several blocks down the road to a gas station to buy a coke, and walk back, or I would have gone the entire night without so much as a drink of WATER. No, he would not even give me freaking tap water. If I hadn't been so ticked, I would have thought to get his bartender's liscence number and would have reported his sorry ass. See if I couldn't have gotten his liscence revoked. Wow. WTF? Assuming that maybe he needed the OJ for screwdrivers or sunrises, still, who gives a crap what you order as long as you pay for it? And yeah, he probably should have gotten his license revoked. Refusing to serve non-alchoholic beverages is baffling. I cant think of a single reason for it.
Sphyre 02-04-07, 01:13 AM	Wow. WTF? Assuming that maybe he needed the OJ for screwdrivers or sunrises, still, who gives a crap what you order as long as you pay for it? And yeah, he probably should have gotten his license revoked. Refusing to serve non-alchoholic beverages is baffling. I cant think of a single reason for it. Newyears day 2006, my friend went to this bar in downtown chicago. All the guys had to pay 150 bucks to get in, but the girls got in free. Then the bartender was giving the girls free drinks, but when the guys tried to order drinks he was saying things like "What face are you going to show me?" (refering to the faces on the bills) and was expecting 20 dollars or more per drink. Some bartenders are beyond all reason. Although, I find it sad that Edymnion has such a negative experience with people and alcohol. I'd just like to reassure him that not all people who consume alcohol lose their sensibility. Not only me, but many of my friends are all very respectable people, as I value respect very highly. When they drink, only a little or a lot, they still retain their respectable nature. I must say, that when in comes to people who drink alcohol, I've actually had more often than not, the opposite experience as Edymnion. This doesn't mean I haven't seen people who are complete fools while under the influence, but it's not often, as I'm someone who stays away from fools in the first place.
Always-Late 02-04-07, 01:26 AM	Why are you at a bar? (If the answer's friends): Get one of their drinks that they finish, get the glass, go for the tap in the bathroom, and fill up.
Ziggy_Stardust 02-04-07, 01:29 AM	Sorry for being harsh Edymnion, but I've seen people act like you said you would ruin my friends lives. Hell, my uncle Stan IS a narc, and even he doesn't bust anyone for weed, assuming it's not laced. Then he isn't doing his job correctly.. $150 to get into a bar?! That right there would have made me turn around and walk home.
Sphyre 02-04-07, 01:33 AM	$150 to get into a bar?! That right there would have made me turn around and walk home. There was a reason I didn't go. I was invited. I had fun at home with other friends. :)
Ziggy_Stardust 02-04-07, 01:36 AM	There was a reason I didn't go. I was invited. I had fun at home with other friends. :) Yeah, you could have used your entry money to go buy a consol and have a different type of fun :)
Zombayz1 02-04-07, 02:01 AM	Then he isn't doing his job correctly.. I know he isn't. but anything harder and all 400 pounds of him are gonna crush your sorry ass.
Ziggy_Stardust 02-04-07, 02:19 AM	I know he isn't. but anything harder and all 400 pounds of him are gonna crush your sorry ass. Edit: annnnd I completely missed the point of that post, I should go to bed..
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-04-07, 01:14 PM	To Edymnion: My apologies if the text i wrote came off as a little combative. I often forget that typing isnt the same as talking, and while i may have wrote something that i felt had one undertone, in actuality there are many ways to interpret the very same text. If your personal experiences have led you to avoid alchohol, thats a personal choice of yours that should be respected. I respect that. It sounds like your experiences have been negative, and consistantly negative enough to form your opinions. You've made a good choice based on the experiences of your life. As far as narcing goes, i'm going to respectfully bow out of that potentially never-ending arguement. Besides, the topic of narcing is probably better posted on a different message board- a law enforcement board or ACLU boards or something. While i disagree with your stance on this subject, i can understand that you have your reasons. To the gentleman from Canada: In general, the USA has very conflicting opinions on drug use. Many people say one thing and do another, but please dont let that sour you to the individuals living here. Like any place that is a collective of individuals, there are too many opinions to make such a generalization. I dont agree with the legal stances in the US about drugs (recreational). Fault that all you want, but please remember that the legal stance here is not representative of the entire population.
Fallenangel359 02-04-07, 01:21 PM	my particular group has a rule that you are required to have caffeene in your system, unless you are the dwarven samurai artificer (yes we have one of those). He doesn't need caffeene. Trust me. Everyone else downs 6-8 cans of mt dew
Sphyre 02-04-07, 01:26 PM	but please remember that the legal stance here is not representative of the entire population. Heh. Nothing is ever 100% If it were 100% there would be no need for the law to say as such, because no one would be breaking it. The reason why there are laws against stealing is because there are people who steal. The reason why there are laws about drunk driving is because there are people who drive drunk. Obviously, if there are people who break the laws then there are people who disagree with them. That's just common sense to understand that not everyone agrees with the laws in which they are governed by. Unfortunately, common sense isn't entirely all that common.
Sphyre 02-04-07, 01:27 PM	my particular group has a rule that you are required to have caffeene in your system, unless you are the dwarven samurai artificer (yes we have one of those). He doesn't need caffeene. Trust me. Everyone else downs 6-8 cans of mt dew Um. why?
Arrowhen 02-04-07, 01:55 PM	Let me put it this way, I have yet to meet anyone that can take just one drink, stop, and still act like a respectable individual. Alcohol doesn't make you act like an ass; being an ass makes you act like an ass. Some people like to use alcohol as an excuse for their negative behavior, but it's certainly not the cause of if. I'm perfectly capable of both stopping after one drink and of acting like a respectable individual no matter how many drinks I have in me. So are the vast majority of people I choose to associate with. I've never gotten drunk and crashed my car, or gotten drunk and started a fight, or gotten drunk and hooked up with someone I shouldn't have, or gotten drunk and missed work the next day because of it. All the stupid things I've done in my life, I've done while stone cold sober. All I do when I'm drunk is talk louder. I'm quite capable of having a good time without having to resort to substance abuse to do it. As am I. But I'm also capable of getting stinking drunk and having a good time... without making stupid decisions or making anyone else around me uncomfortable. I understand that you've had bad experiences with drinkers, but don't demonize the rest of us because of a few miserable jerks who use alcohol as an excuse to engage in the boorish behavior they don't have the guts to engage in while sober. That's no different from "Eew, you play D&D? There was a creepy kid back in the 6th grade who played that and, hey, didn't a bunch of kids kill themselves over it back in the 80s? What the hell is wrong with you?"
Edymnion 02-04-07, 03:07 PM	I understand that you've had bad experiences with drinkers, but don't demonize the rest of us because of a few miserable jerks who use alcohol as an excuse to engage in the boorish behavior they don't have the guts to engage in while sober. That's no different from "Eew, you play D&D? There was a creepy kid back in the 6th grade who played that and, hey, didn't a bunch of kids kill themselves over it back in the 80s? What the hell is wrong with you?"Who said anything about demonizing anybody? Where did I say that anyone that drinks any amount of alcohol is instantly the worst person in the world? I reserve that blind blanket statement for the crack and meth addicts. I'm just saying that from personal experience, I have developed a strong dislike for being around people who are consuming alcohol, and that I choose not to be around them whenever possible. Same with smokers. I don't smoke, so I don't hang out in the smoker's lounge at work. And if I were to go to a D&D game where everybody was puffing on cigars in the house and I couldn't see the DM for the nicotine fog, I wouldn't go back to that game either, and I doubt I'd catch nearly as much flak for that as I am over not playing with people that drink. Its just personal preferance.
Ace_of_Diamonds 02-04-07, 03:16 PM	Who said anything about demonizing anybody? Where did I say that anyone that drinks any amount of alcohol is instantly the worst person in the world? I reserve that blind blanket statement for the crack and meth addicts. I'm just saying that from personal experience, I have developed a strong dislike for being around people who are consuming alcohol, and that I choose not to be around them whenever possible. Same with smokers. I don't smoke, so I don't hang out in the smoker's lounge at work. And if I were to go to a D&D game where everybody was puffing on cigars in the house and I couldn't see the DM for the nicotine fog, I wouldn't go back to that game either, and I doubt I'd catch nearly as much flak for that as I am over not playing with people that drink. Its just personal preferance. I don't blame you at all for it. It's just that such a devout stance on something is bound to upset nearly everyone who has taken the other side on the issue. This tends to be true with just about any other issue.
elsajeni 02-04-07, 03:25 PM	And if I were to go to a D&D game where everybody was puffing on cigars in the house and I couldn't see the DM for the nicotine fog, I wouldn't go back to that game either, and I doubt I'd catch nearly as much flak for that as I am over not playing with people that drink. Its just personal preferance. There's a big difference between a room full of cigar (or any other kind of) smoke and a room with a can of beer in it. You're probably right that people wouldn't object to your leaving that environment -- because it's a colossal health hazard. "Steve had a beer" isn't actually causing you any harm. I can certainly respect your decision not to want to combine drinking and D&D, and in fact don't have any interest in combining the two myself, but I think your analogy is faulty. I also disagree with your flat zero-tolerance policy. Once again, I understand and respect that it's your decision to make as to who you want to play with, but refusing to play with anyone who chooses to have a beer during the game, ever, under any circumstances, seems unnecessarily harsh to me. There's a difference between "gaming drunk", which I would absolutely not put up with, and "gaming while drinking", which is what you seem to be saying you won't tolerate. A lot of people can have a drink, even a couple of drinks, without it substantially impairing their ability to play, and if you're playing with people who are mature and responsible enough to know their own limits (I'm a lightweight and one beer is too many; my fiance starts to feel a buzz after two; half a glass of wine is enough to get my mom falling off of chairs; that sort of thing), you're unlikely to have any real problems with the alcohol affecting the gameplay. Why not at least give them a chance to show you whether or not they can handle alcohol responsibly? Once again: your decision, I understand that you're not looking to be persuaded and are unlikely to change your mind, but I think that your policy has a high risk of unnecessarily barring a lot of perfectly good players from ever participating in a game with you -- your loss, and theirs.
Arrowhen 02-04-07, 03:40 PM	Same with smokers. I don't smoke, so I don't hang out in the smoker's lounge at work. And if I were to go to a D&D game where everybody was puffing on cigars in the house and I couldn't see the DM for the nicotine fog, I wouldn't go back to that game either, and I doubt I'd catch nearly as much flak for that as I am over not playing with people that drink. Smoker's lounge? You mean there are still bastions of civilization and personal responsibility left in the US where business owners are permitted to decide for themselves whether or not to allow adults to consume legal, freely-available substances on their private property? Wow! I just moved from the tolerant, liberal, anything goes Northwest where you can't smoke within 25 feet of the entrance to any building. At least down here in Florida you can still smoke in bars, as God intended. ;) Anyway, I'll climb down off my soapbox and say that at least where smoking is concerned, there are logical reasons not to want to be around smokers*. But the beer in my bottle isn't going to give you cancer. I can understand not wanting to be around drunken jerks, but it's not the drinking that makes them jerks. I choose not to be around jerks of any level of sobriety. What I object to is your apparent assumption that all drinkers are drunken jerks. I've met plenty of unwashed nerds with no social skills who can't talk about anything other than D&D and Monty Python quotes. I can't stand being around people like that, and choose not to associate with them, but if I assumed that D&D made them that way, I would have missed out on a rewarding life-long hobby. * I'm a pack a day smoker myself, but even I probably wouldn't want to be in a game where people smoked at the table. Not only does smoking indoors without proper ventilation make everything smell like stale cigarettes, but I'd end up smoking way too much. Getting up to smoke outside ensures that I only smoke a cigarette when I want one, rather than constantly lighting up out of absentminded habit.
ZombieDragon 02-04-07, 03:51 PM	To Ace what you did was acceptable. You tried to curtail yourself and your group to one persons ideal. It was an attempt that some might not have even tried. As to the alcohol discussion in general : This has to be a regional and cultural thing. I have grown up around people that drink socially and culturally. They view this far differently than the religious feverous disdain that pervaded the american landscape on these issues. I drink when I am across the pond as it is legal and expected within my family. I do not drink in the states as it is illegal to posses yet oddly legal to consume (the law is in the possession or behavior). Now my best friends family is deeply rooted in their heritage too. They allow their 18 year old to drink at meals. Now he only occasionally does this. He also doesn't go out with his friends and drink as he doesn't see the excitement they see in skirting the law about it. My parents and theirs believe that it is something to be taught and overseen. They both also believe that an 18 year old should not fall under the BS double standard that surrounds this issue. An 18 yr old can vote, pay taxes, be put in jail as an adult, buy a home, start a family, adopt a child, and serve this country potentially paying the highest price for freedom, yet they can not drink. We throw huge parties in the summertime as it is the social season (people are actually around). The dads cater to everyone and actually go out of their way to make sure the non drinkers are enjoying themselves. The local restaurants have separate quiet sections for people so they enjoy their meal as much as the louder larger boisterous family sections. Even the local bar goes out of its way to accommodate DD's, they get free drinks and a food side dish for the service to the community. We live in an area of strong individualism that also has a large staunch religious portion. I guess this area just caters to both better than some other areas. To adamantly oppose something is a learned response. It is how cults get their followers. It is how countries get their elite soldiers. It should not be how a human interacts with another human. Just my :twocents: